Betfair Casino - able to play despite SE

[lucianegon]

Bit of a complicated case – I’ll try and outline the history as briefly yet as comprehensively as possible.

I opened a Betfair account in 2005, living in UK at the time, and used it mainly for sports betting but also casino play, which after a while and some losses I decided wasn’t good for me. So, some time around 2010 (not sure of the exact date, or even year) I requested a self exclusion for Casino and Arcade only.

In 2012, I permanently moved to Germany, and continued to use the account for sports betting on an occasional basis. I never changed any details on my account profile (address, phone number etc.) as it still worked and I was able to deposit using credit cards issued in Germany (crappy exchange rates by the way!).

In November 2018 I tried to access the account from Norway whilst on holiday there, and it got suspended, presumably due to geoblocking – I wasn’t aware that Norway is an excluded territory.

After my return to Germany, I contacted Betfair CS via livechat and asked for my account profile to be updated. I was advised this wasn’t possible and that I should open a completely new account, with my current address details and Euro as the currency. The old account would then be permanently closed.

It took a whole year for me to do this as I wasn’t too bothered about not having a Betfair account, i.e. it wasn’t important. Two weeks ago, I eventually did as I was advised last year, and opened a Euro account. I sent all necessary documents for KYC and the account was validated successfully – I have an email to confirm this. The old account was duly closed.

On the new account, the access to the casino section was available, I played and lost around 6500€, having completely forgotten about the self exclusion from nearly 10 years ago (not that this actually matters in any way). A few days later, my new account was suspended, I suspect because I had registered a couple of new credit cards (can’t be sure though), and I was asked to send in proof of funds (i.e. screenshots of the cards), plus ID and proof of address again. Now the card info is fine to request and part of the process but I didn’t understand why they needed the other documents again, as I had already sent them as part of KYC – however, this is by the by and I obliged.

During this round of checks they obviously looked a bit more closely at the old (closed but presumably still linked in their system) account and “discovered” the SE on it. I was advised of this by email and told that the SE would be carried over to the new account, which it has. The account itself has been unsuspended and I can access Sports.

I believe they didn’t apply due diligence and should have performed these checks as soon as I opened the new account and they closed the old one. Their negligence and failure to apply the required checks allowed me to play despite an active self exclusion, and I will be asking for a return of the funds I lost in the casino.

Betfair is a very reputable company and I would think they are going to take this breach of regulations seriously.



Questions:

- What is the correct route for this? They have a complaints procedure (escalations@betfair.com), presumably this is where to start?

- If they reject my case and refuse to refund (which I’m pretty sure they will – cynical? Absolutely!), what comes next? Report them to the UKGC? Problem here could be that their casino licence is issued in Malta, so maybe the UKGC aren’t the appropriate authority for this?



Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[misstrouble]

In all honesty, they could not reasonably have assumed it was you.
I mean, you’re in a completely different country. Based on what should they have blocked you straight away?

 

[lucianegon]

Have you read, or understood my post at all? They told me to open a new account in Euro, and advised that the old one would be closed. Of course they knew it was me, as they had all the info about the two linked accounts.


One detail I didn’t mention was that a day or so after opening the new account, it got closed and CS emailed me to explain that this was a duplicate registration, which is against their policy. It took another livechat to explain to their left hand what their right hand had advised me to do.


There is enough evidence (with correspondence to back it up) that they knew perfectly well what the situation was. They were simply negligent (or sloppy) in applying their checks and missed the SE on the old account.


Clear now?

 

[lucianegon]

"One detail I didn’t mention was that a day or so after opening the new account, it got closed and CS emailed me to explain that this was a duplicate registration, which is against their policy. It took another livechat to explain to their left hand what their right hand had advised me to do."

It took them nearly three weeks after this incident to detect the SE on the old account and apply it to the new one. During this time, my account was accessible for casino play – this should not have been possible.

Can anybody offer any constructive input regarding my case? Excuses or easy justifications for Betfair’s actions will be treated as such.

Thank you.

 

[lucianegon]

“I mean, you’re in a completely different country. Based on what should they have blocked you straight away?”

My full name (I’m not a Jane Smith), DOB and the copy of my ID card, which I uploaded via the KYC section on their website hours after opening the new account. The same document (or rather, its successor, as German ID cards are only valid for 10 years) is already on file with them (or should be – not sure how long they are required to keep such info) from when I opened the first account.

How do you think they eventually managed to “connect” the two accounts, with no further info from me, after three weeks – a newly discovered crystal ball?? I believe they had the connection from the start but someone didn’t bother to do all of the required checks.

I’m not arguing they could have reasonably detected the SE the minute I opened the second account, even though I believe they absolutely should have erred on the side of caution. i.e. as a general rule, temporarily suspending one account too many, rather than leave one open that has a SE on it.

In my case, as stated before, it took them nearly three weeks to join the dots. This is gross negligence on their part.

Looking forward to your constructive and well-reasoned response.


P.S. I have just sent off a lengthy email to their Escalations team, outlining the whole case. We shall see.

 

[shadow123]

If you decieded that the casino part of Betfair was not for you and had SE,d why did you try to access
that part on the new account and lose 6.5 k in the proccess ?.
Would you be complaining if you had won and been paid out ?.
No fan of Betfair (i nearly had a choking fit when I saw the comment about a very reputable company)
and you might get paid but something doesnt sound right.

 

[lucianegon]

I stand by my view of Betfair as a reputable provider. I have been a customer since 2005, and never had a real issue. Small problems (on Sports betting, e.g., missing settlement, incorrect results etc.) were always resolved quickly and correctly.

Whether (or not), and why I may have decided to play Casino on the new account is completely irrelevant in this case. The bottom line is it should not have been possible for me to do so. That is all that matters. If I had won and tried to withdraw, don’t you think they would have “discovered” the SE at that point and voided all winnings? I do, but neither of us will ever know, as it’s hypothetical. The actual situation is still the one I described.

Not only do I not have to justify my actions to you, or anyone else in the virtual world, the point is also entirely irrelevant, as stated above.

Why is it people on here keep confounding personal, pseudo-moral angles with hard facts such as SE regulations and checks prescribed by said regulations that companies like Betfair are required to adher to?

Seems to me that gamblers are an interesting species – apportioning personal blame, preferably to others, seems to be a highly-favoured approach. Take a step back and apply some rational thinking, if you can.

I can see now where having posted here is heading, unfortunately. I had hoped for some reasoned and measured input, plus maybe some actual, and factual (!), answers to the only two questions I did ask in my initial post. Instead, I am so far getting the finger pointed at me.

Waste of time.

 

[colinsunderland]

- What is the correct route for this? They have a complaints procedure (escalations@betfair.com), presumably this is where to start?

Yes.

- If they reject my case and refuse to refund (which I’m pretty sure they will – cynical? Absolutely!), what comes next? Report them to the UKGC? Problem here could be that their casino licence is issued in Malta, so maybe the UKGC aren’t the appropriate authority for this?

I can see multiple problems you will have to overcome, not least that the SE was made so long ago and in the UK, before the UKGC were licensing casinos. I don't know the answer to your questions, but your SE was made under the Maltese license, and you are playing under the same one now, so would suggest that would be the licensing authority you would be looking at.

 

[lucianegon]

Thanks, Colin. To the point and entirely factual, plus a couple of new items of info, too.

 

[lucianegon]

Betfair took just over a week to investigate my complaint and have now issued a full refund, which is absolutely the correct decision.

Very straightforward, professional and swift.

 

[shadow123]

Glad they paid you and a little suprized but all well that ends well

 

[bamberfishcake]

They were always going to pay. Afraid they didnt have a leg to stand on.

I didnt know you could 'part' self exclude. I think thats dangerous and doesnt quite make sense. I think if you self exclude it should carry across to all forms of gambling.

I also think when you noticed the mistake you should have told them. Not gone on and deposited and played. Do you agree?

I must admit if i self excluded and then managed to slip through the net, i would be rubbing my hands together at the prospect of risk free betting. Hell, id probably deposit twice/three times the norm.

Its no wonder these casinos are going over board.

 

[lucianegon]

I didnt know you could 'part' self exclude. I think thats dangerous and doesnt quite make sense. I think if you self exclude it should carry across to all forms of gambling.

Tell that to Betfair – it’s them that allow users to do it.

I also think when you noticed the mistake you should have told them. Not gone on and deposited and played. Do you agree?

Not surprised to see the finger-pointing continuing. Did you read my first post, or was it a bit long? Here is the important bit, just for you (my bold):

having completely forgotten about the self exclusion from nearly 10 years ago (not that this actually matters in any way)

You claim the moral high ground with your loaded question, then admit you’d happily take advantage of a similar situation yourself. Contradictory much?

Over and out. Wrong place for me.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I didnt know you could 'part' self exclude. I think thats dangerous and doesnt quite make sense. I think if you self exclude it should carry across to all forms of gambling.

Tell that to Betfair – it’s them that allow users to do it.

I also think when you noticed the mistake you should have told them. Not gone on and deposited and played. Do you agree?

Not surprised to see the finger-pointing continuing. Did you read my first post, or was it a bit long? Here is the important bit, just for you (my bold):

having completely forgotten about the self exclusion from nearly 10 years ago (not that this actually matters in any way)

Also, you claim the moral high ground with your loaded question, then admit you’d happily take advantage of a similar situation yourself. Contradictory much?

Over and out. Wrong place for me.

Read your post fully. Not claiming any moral high ground. Simply asking if you think you should have mentioned when you noticed.

I am asking what was going through your mind when you realised and took the decision to deposit.

Not finger pointing and you can get defensive, i thought you would. Theres nobody else to ask and i asked the question.

Your attitude of 'over and out' was also expected. Denial is the mother of all arguments and if you feel completely justified and that your ethics and morale compass are on track then why not answer?

You have completely avoided the question.

In short, i wont ever self exclude or be in your position for a number of different reasons. Take that and twist it into whatever suits you. I was putting myself in that situation and mindset. I was merely pointing out that risk free betting for addicts must feel like heaven.