Advice needed

[MrWolf]

I'm currently in a dispute with one of the accredited casinos on this site. I won't say which yet, since I've contacted the rep. here. But I would like some advice.

Here's the probem. When I joined in January, I provided my UK driver's licence, utility bill, copy of cc for verification, and had my first small cashin paid.

I then went onto deposit, play and cashin four more times using another debit card.

You'd assume the only thing required would be a copy of the new debit card.

Unfortunately, not so. Copy of new debit card, bank statement showing payments to the casino (even though you can only deposit thru verified by visa), bank statement for the account winnings are to be paid to, and another form of ID which needs to have a photo were all requested.

I've supplied all but there's a sticking point over the ID. My drivers' licence is an old style UK one, with no photo, which is clearly a problem for the casino. The only photo ID I have is my passport. So I very reluctantly sent a copy of my passport, but with thin strips of paper blocking out my passport number, place of birth, exact date passport was issued and exact date it expires. My name, nationality, date of birth, sex, year the passport expires, and signature are all visible.

The reason I blocked out some sensitive information is that I'm wary of the threat of ID theft. However, this is not good enough for said casino, who I have found have now locked my account and stolen my winnings until I send them a copy of my passport with all the sensitive information visible.

Personally I consider this totally irresponsible behaviour for a casino to lay their customers open to the possibility of ID theft (I note that Casinomeister himself deals with the topic in his latest broadcast). No casino demands copies of credit cards with the full cc number and security showing. Why is a passport any different?

I've just spoken to a customer services rep from the casino who informs me the reason they need a photo ID is because it's a requirement of the regulatory authorities in Malta. However, he was not able to provide me any links to back this up. He then told me it was in the casino's rules and pointed me to this section:

"Request documents to verify identity, authorisation to use a specific Credit Card and/or other facts provided by the Account Holder, before expediting deposits and/or withdrawals."

Nothing there about the ID having to have a photo. Personally I think with the amount of documentation they already have it's obvious to even a moron that I'm genuine.

My question is am I being unreasonable with regards to the passport? Are other people happy to hand out copies of their passport to online casinos, even if they are on CM's accredited list?

 

[RobWin]

MrWolf, with all of this going on with the ID and the fact that you had already sent them your drivers license ID and they had paid you previously but now they are requesting the same again and more, I would go ahead and get either Bryan or Max involved with this one, especially since they are an accredited casino here.

 

[BingoT]

Dose the UK have an expiration on the Driver License?
If so I would say it's time for a new one.
And after you get it send it.
And you can trust Bryan or Max to back you on this if you don't get a new license.
B-T

 

[MrWolf]

Dose the UK have an expiration on the Driver License?
If so I would say it's time for a new one.
And after you get it send it.
And you can trust Bryan or Max to back you on this if you don't get a new license.
B-T

There's no expiration date on the licence BingoT. I think it's valid till I'm 65, so still a way to go!

I didn't want to pitch a bitch without first speaking to the casino rep here. I know he did communicate with the casino, which is Malta-based. Unfortunately, the fact that they've now locked my account speaks volumes and I may have no alternative but to pitch a bitch.

What is really annoying is that there was no bonus money involved, so at the moment they are not releasing either me deposits or winnings. These guys should really take a lesson from the likes of Red Flush.

 

[Gogo]

When I was requested withdraw with one of casino I send them all documents, include my passport (Did not block any number) and also I send them copy of my visa electron include all numbers, even cvv.
I was very worried and afraid. They asure me that this data will be on secure file and not share to anyone, but.. I am still woried.
BTW I get my withdraw, thats fine.
In other casinos I blocked numbers no relevant to the casino.
So, what I can do? I can replace visa and with this I will stop any fraud from use of my old card.
For passport numbers I am not so afraid because, if someone want to steal someone indetity there are many way to do so. Copy of varius docs exist in agency, hotels, motels and everywhere.
And what someone can gain if have my passport number? Nothing.

 

[dynamitewoman]

identity theft

Numbers and personal information such as drivers lcense, passport numbers,social security numbers, credit card numbers are all sold, often in lots to the highest bidder, using telephone transactions. What the buyer does with them is their business once they own them. A valid passport number can be attached to any individual with a "created" passport document to authenticate it. We are all identified with numbers, codes and symbols that are personal to us because they have been issued to us. That is who we are, and if someone else gains access to that information, that is who they can become.
The internet is not a place to trust anyones security measures to the point of not protecting yourself with common sense and precautions.
Maybe someone will come up with the bright idea of establishing a secure government sanctioned and insured site where you can submit all necessary documents and , in return, you get an authorized and secure virtual card to use as absolute identity verification across the internet,including gaming sites. That way, you do not have to keep resubmitting and hoping you will be accepted as a real person in order to get cash winnings or be verified at every site you visit.

 

[Gogo]

I can agree with you. I wonder what we can do to prevent steal indetity.
(I apoligize for english).
If we suspect we can report that in Police and thats it. Nothing more.
If someone do something wrong and ilegall with my indetity, I supose can easily prove that I did not do such thing and that is "stolen indetity issue"

 

[KasinoKing]

My question is am I being unreasonable with regards to the passport? Are other people happy to hand out copies of their passport to online casinos, even if they are on CM's accredited list?

1) No, I think the casino is being unreasonable in this particular case since you have already proved you are you once & they've paid you. I see no reason why you should do it all again.
I'm not sure this is PAB material though - why not just PM MaxD and ask for advice?
BTW, I still have the old UK pink driving license too (no photo) - valid until I'm 70 I think...

2) Yes, I have sent scans of my whole passport with nothing blanked to several casinos.
But only those I think are trustworthy. I recognise there is a very small risk in doing this - but I don't mind taking a little gamble from time to time!

KK

 

[RoyallyFlushed]

What I don't understand is why they paid you before and now they wont. I get what your problem is but I don't get what this casino's problem is. Can you take a picture of yourself with a digital camera while holding up your drivers' license?

They locked your account too boot? That would really pizz me off!! Im sure someone here can help you, good luck

 

[MrWolf]

What I don't understand is why they paid you before and now they wont. I get what your problem is but I don't get what this casino's problem is. Can you take a picture of yourself with a digital camera while holding up your drivers' license?

They locked your account too boot? That would really pizz me off!! Im sure someone here can help you, good luck

I must admit I'm completely baffled about why my original documents were OK in January, and then in February they get really heavy handed about demanding loads more. If I were being cynical I'd say it's because there's a bigger win involved this time and they don't want to pay.

 

[zebedy]

it wouldnt be a casino from the vegas partner lounge group would it ?

 

[MrWolf]

it wouldnt be a casino from the vegas partner lounge group would it ?

No it's not. Sorry to be so cryptic about it, but I'm really hoping to get this sorted amicably. I've contacted the casino rep here, but unfortunately since then they've locked my account. So at the moment they are being pretty intransigent about the whole thing.

I've sent a final email today, stating my position, and asked for it be forwarded to a supervisor. If I have no joy from that, then I think I'm either going to have to file a formal complaint with the Lottery and Gaming Authority in Malta or pitch a bitch here.

 

[Stovetopp]

I must admit I'm completely baffled about why my original documents were OK in January, and then in February they get really heavy handed about demanding loads more. If I were being cynical I'd say it's because there's a bigger win involved this time and they don't want to pay.

If the facts are as stated , then I agree that it must have been a huge win!
Good for you! Go get em!!

 

[MrWolf]

If the facts are as stated , then I agree that it must have been a huge win!
Good for you! Go get em!!

Yes, the facts are as stated. And we're talking just over 2.5k, including deposits. It does make you wonder why they are so reluctant to pay...

 

[Rusty]

Yes, the facts are as stated. And we're talking just over 2.5k, including deposits. It does make you wonder why they are so reluctant to pay...

Trusting what you say is fact then I would say this is absolutely PAB material.

The Casino are being completely unreasonable and One of the only reasons I can see for such behaviour is a cynical attempt to avoid paying a legitimate win.
It is very typical of a rogue site to pull such stunts but surprising to find a site accredited here employing such tactics.

The only other reason could be that your account has raised a red flag for some reason and the CS is just incredibly inept.

I respect and understand your decision not to out this Casino and try to have the situation resolved amicably and admire your patience and fortitude in the face of such belligerence.

However it would be proper to have this Casino named and shamed so the rest of us can show our displeasure and support for you by closing our accounts or avoiding this pit in the future should they not see sense and pay you what they owe.

Good luck.

 

[MrWolf]

Trusting what you say is fact then I would say this is absolutely PAB material.

The Casino are being completely unreasonable and One of the only reasons I can see for such behaviour is a cynical attempt to avoid paying a legitimate win.
It is very typical of a rogue site to pull such stunts but surprising to find a site accredited here employing such tactics.

The only other reason could be that your account has raised a red flag for some reason and the CS is just incredibly inept.

I respect and understand your decision not to out this Casino and try to have the situation resolved amicably and admire your patience and fortitude in the face of such belligerence.

However it would be proper to have this Casino named and shamed so the rest of us can show our displeasure and support for you by closing our accounts or avoiding this pit in the future should they not see sense and pay you what they owe.

Good luck.

Thanks for the support Rusty. I'm not naming them just yet because I want to give them a chance to right the situation. If I've not heard anything by Tuesday (I emailed them today asking for a supervisor/manager to address my concerns) I think I'll pitch a bitch here.

I'm hoping since the casino is CM approved that this is a one-off situation, and a manager with a brain can finally sort it.

Rest assured though that if these guys continue to steal my deposits and legitimate winnings (no hint of a bonus involved) then I'll be shouting about their fraudulent behaviour from the rooftops.

 

[MrWolf]

OK so I've been told this evening by a customer services rep I spoke to after he wrote refusing to pass on an email I'd sent about this matter to a superior:

"No pay outs" and "Your account will stay locked" unless I send a copy of my passport with all information showing. He also added: "Send us the documents otherwise nothing's going to happen."

Highly unsatisfactory for a "reputable" casino. Time to escalate the matter.

 

[winbig]

OK so I've been told this evening by a customer services rep I spoke to after he wrote refusing to pass on an email I'd sent about this matter to a superior:

"No pay outs" and "Your account will stay locked" unless I send a copy of my passport with all information showing. He also added: "Send us the documents otherwise nothing's going to happen."

Highly unsatisfactory for a "reputable" casino. Time to escalate the matter.

It makes no sense that they would have paid you several times before without a photo ID, but yet now make it seem as if they're required to have it, by their licensing authority.

I'm in the USA, but every time I send in documents, I've always blacked out any information they don't need - such as license #, account numbers, non-casino related transactions, etc. - and never had any problems.

Definitely time to PAB.

 

[hobobiker]

My drivers' licence is an old style UK one, with no photo,

1)BTW, I still have the old UK pink driving license too (no photo) - valid until I'm 70 I think...
KK

photo license been around 10+ years now .... no convictions or endorsments in that time , I am very Impressed, its pretty hard nowdays with all the cams around.
you still riding KK ?. .... maybe i should switch to 4 wheels , might keep my lic more than six months ( get mine back in Aug after another 18 months for totting up) but then again ..... nah,

 

[RobWin]

MrWolf, is this Unibet you are dealing with here since you have brought up a few other threads now asking if the issue was ever resolved ??

 

[MrWolf]

MrWolf, is this Unibet you are dealing with here since you have brought up a few other threads now asking if the issue was ever resolved ??

Sorry RobWin, I don't want to name the casino for now since I'm considering PAB in a day or two.

 

[vinylweatherman]

OK so I've been told this evening by a customer services rep I spoke to after he wrote refusing to pass on an email I'd sent about this matter to a superior:

"No pay outs" and "Your account will stay locked" unless I send a copy of my passport with all information showing. He also added: "Send us the documents otherwise nothing's going to happen."

Highly unsatisfactory for a "reputable" casino. Time to escalate the matter.

Time to escalate right now, do not wait 2 days. This is your proof of a situation of deadlock. Since CS are blocking access to a higher level, forget the rep, this is a stage of non-cooperation too far, and you are only going to waste time giving them any more chances.

While you may be going a little over the top with the passport issue, this really does the casino no favours at all. You at least HAVE a passport to argue over, what about the vast majority of UK players who have still not moved house since photo licences were introduced (the ONLY way most have the right to a free upgrade). The reason for this government stance, simple, IT'S NOT A FRIGGIN' ID DOCUMENT, IT'S A LICENCE TO DRIVE A VEHICLE.
If the goddam GOVERNMENT feels it is good enough that we citizens can be told apart from terrorists without making photo cards universal, than it should be good enough for these arrogant casinos who are really only looking after their businesses. If casinos were PROPERLY regulated, this would NEVER happen, and if it did, the CASINO could be charged with theft once you could demonstrate you were the beneficial owner of the funds deposited.

It is no good for casinos to insist players produce something that does not even exist - it is not going to happen, and all that WILL happen is that the casino involved will be dragged through the mire (even if not publically at first), since this would be the player's only alternative. IF casinos have a very narrow range of ID documents they will accept, and this range is one that some players will not possess an item from, then this MUST be spelled out CLEARLY in the terms BEFORE the player plays - from what has been quoted, this casino has failed to spell out this in sufficient detail, in particular failing to mention that the legacy standard UK Drivers licence is an exception to the rule that a drivers licence will suffice, and that it has to be a recently issued or reissued photo variant.

This casino is asking for a DANGEROUS amount of your personal details, and if they fell into the wrong hands, it wouild be so VERY easy for your identity to be stolen, and damn thoroughly too. It is about time this was brought to a stop. It has become clear to me that casino CS do NOT handle all this information with the necessary levels of security. If it were, we would NEVER hear of players being told by CS to "resend your documents, we didn't receive them, we have lost them, etc"

Casinos DO NOT NEED all that information on the passport. They need a proof of name and address to compare with what you have registered with them, and they need two independent, but corobberating, documents that prove you have current access to the address (usually a recent utility bill, or bank statement).

Since this argument involves a UK Passport, it could be worth contacting the home office about this, since this has supposedly come about through a Malteze regulatory rule. The home office may well be VERY unhappy with the sheer level of personal information these sites are requesting and can do something about it since malta is a member of the EU. The home office are not going to buy into the argument the casino NEEDS this level of detail, and that this requirement overrides the REAL need to frustrate those who seek to misuse the data to enter the country illegally. THIS is why recent advice has gone out to travellers about the common practice of hotels insisting on holding passports as "security" against guests not paying any bar bills or room service before they leave. The advice is that this is NOT ACCEPTABLE, and if the home office does not trust HOTELS, you can bet they don't trust online casinos to hold through an image, which is, in effect, the same thing.

Normally, when a new card is used a casino will ask for an image of that card to prove it is yours. They may well also ask for a deposit declaration form listing all deposits made, which you sign to state you authorised them. They believe this protects them from chargebacks, however, they may be mistaken since the documents are always presented to be signed "under duress" with the threat of non-payment if you do not sign.
The bank statements showing the deposits may be in lieu of this deposit declaration form, so serves the same purpose. Wanting a statement for the bank they are being asked to pay into may be an indication that they smell a rat. Why, after all, not have the winnings paid into the bank account linked to the debit card - this starts to look too complicated an arrangement for Mr Average, so they start to let their imaginations run wild and see conspiracies. Funnily enough, the very thing casinos accuse us players of, and assure us it is all OUR imaginations, and not any "rigged games".

 

[GrandMaster]

If the goddam GOVERNMENT feels it is good enough that we citizens can be told apart from terrorists without making photo cards universal, than it should be good enough for these arrogant casinos who are really only looking after their businesses.

Actually, if you have been following the news, the government policy is for everyone to have a biometric ID card containing fingerprints and there will be a massive database waiting to be lost on a memory stick by some civil servant.

 

[KasinoKing]

photo license been around 10+ years now .... no convictions or endorsments in that time , I am very Impressed, its pretty hard nowdays with all the cams around.
you still riding KK ?. .... maybe i should switch to 4 wheels , might keep my lic more than six months ( get mine back in Aug after another 18 months for totting up) but then again ..... nah,

Yep... well in the summer!
My XS750SE is still rusting away in the corner of my garage, but last year I bought a DT125R for nipping here & there - much more fun!
What are you riding again?

Actually I have 2 speeding endorsements on my licence - one while driving the car, and one on the DT last year! Both bloody speed camera's I expected them to ask me to upgrade my licence to a photo one, but all they did was write the endorsements on by hand!

Sorry for the derail!
KK

 

[Gogo]

So, if someone is unhappy or have samo reason to cancel deposit to casino (if he/she made deposit by visa el) he can do that? How?

 

[Rusty]

So, if someone is unhappy or have samo reason to cancel deposit to casino (if he/she made deposit by visa el) he can do that? How?

Remember this is really for consumer protection against mis-sold or defective items when the company they are dealing with simply refuse to help.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Gogo]

Thank you.

 

[KasinoKing]

So, if someone is unhappy or have some reason to cancel deposit to casino (if he/she made deposit by visa el) he can do that? How?

If you are thinking about doing this - please think twice!

Players who do 'charge-backs' are very likely to get themselves on a player blacklist with casinos, which could mean you will be very limited about which casinos you can play at in the future.

A charge-back should be your absolute last resort when you have been genuinely wronged by the casino in a major way. You should NEVER do it just because you had bad luck & lost, for example.

Take care,
KK

 

[Gogo]

Of course, I will not do that. I was wondering about it is it possible. As I stated previosly, I sended some casino copy of my cc in full, so if someone made transactions what I did not authorize I have option to "get it back" because this is fraudulent use of my cc. And not only in casinos.
Some shop on Internet do not require cvv number.
Thanks for your respond.

 

[MrWolf]

For those that are interested, thought I'd post what happened with the casino that was refusing to cashin my winnings until I sent them a copy of my passport.

The casino in question was Unibet.

To briefly recap, I had sent them documents (drivers' licence, utility bill, copy of cc) in January, and they duly processed my first cashin.

I then deposited another six times, made four withdrawals, and was then asked to send lots more documentation. I sent them copies of my visa debit card, bank statements and passport with the number and some sensitive info blocked but they could quite clearly see it was my passport.

However, despite being told my ID was not in question following all the documetation I'd sent, the version of the passport I sent was not good enough for Unibet. I did contact the Unibet rep here who tried to liaise with the casino, and I even got a call from their auditing dept.

Despite my concerns about ID theft (I refer again to CM's warning about copies of passports in his latest broadcast) and being told they sympathised, they wouldn't budge. I do not know why for the life of me they need to have your passport number when they can see your name, date of birth, photo, passport authority.

It was made quite clear to me that my cashins would not be processed without the passport number showing, so against my better judgement I eventually gave in and sent it to get the matter resolved. This is the first and only time I have ever sent a copy of my passport to an online casino, and I only considered it because Unibet is a publicy listed company.

I do however feel that I was steamrollered into sending passport information that they have no valid reason for (after telling me that my ID isn't in question) and I'm disappointed by the attitude of a CM-approved casino.

Anyway, my cashins were duly processed, and I received them yesterday.

I have to say, Unibet have to take the gold medal for my worst ever experience with an online casino.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Actually, if you have been following the news, the government policy is for everyone to have a biometric ID card containing fingerprints and there will be a massive database waiting to be lost on a memory stick by some civil servant.

I have, but it will be some time in the future, casinos are insisting on having NOW what we don't actually all HAVE right now as a universal standard.

In any case, this biometric card is not going to be of any more use to an online casino than a photo card. The government may even feel that the biometric data is so good that a photo is unnecessary, and an accurate ID will be obtained by checking the holders biometric matches that on the card, and that held on the database, where their full details will show, probably with a photo, but the photo will not be that much of a factor in checking the ID.

Before we can have this, an international standard has to be thrashed out, as this card will be no good if other countries are not willing to accept it, or we are not willing to accept theirs.

Businesses, including online ones, will be able to check our basic biometrics through some USB devices now on the market, provided they have agreed access to the database to match these biometrics to the correct person. This could be a big problem for businesses based in certain countries.

The devices are already available for some cars, and for computers one idea is that an iris scan, or fingerprint scan, will replace the traditional password and "secret question" approach to online security.

 

[RobWin]

For those that are interested, thought I'd post what happened with the casino that was refusing to cashin my winnings until I sent them a copy of my passport.

The casino in question was Unibet.

To briefly recap, I had sent them documents (drivers' licence, utility bill, copy of cc) in January, and they duly processed my first cashin.

I then deposited another six times, made four withdrawals, and was then asked to send lots more documentation. I sent them copies of my visa debit card, bank statements and passport with the number and some sensitive info blocked but they could quite clearly see it was my passport.

However, despite being told my ID was not in question following all the documetation I'd sent, the version of the passport I sent was not good enough for Unibet. I did contact the Unibet rep here who tried to liaise with the casino, and I even got a call from their auditing dept.

Despite my concerns about ID theft (I refer again to CM's warning about copies of passports in his latest broadcast) and being told they sympathised, they wouldn't budge. I do not know why for the life of me they need to have your passport number when they can see your name, date of birth, photo, passport authority.

It was made quite clear to me that my cashins would not be processed without the passport number showing, so against my better judgement I eventually gave in and sent it to get the matter resolved. This is the first and only time I have ever sent a copy of my passport to an online casino, and I only considered it because Unibet is a publicy listed company.

I do however feel that I was steamrollered into sending passport information that they have no valid reason for (after telling me that my ID isn't in question) and I'm disappointed by the attitude of a CM-approved casino.

Anyway, my cashins were duly processed, and I received them yesterday.

I have to say, Unibet have to take the gold medal for my worst ever experience with an online casino.

Wow!! I for one would definitely like to hear Bryan's thoughts on this one especially after the video where you were discussing letting folks make copies of your passport ??

Help us to understand this recent action by Unibet a little better please.

 

[MrWolf]

Wow!! I for one would definitely like to hear Bryan's thoughts on this one especially after the video where you were discussing letting folks make copies of your passport ??

Help us to understand this recent action by Unibet a little better please.

I agree. It would be nice to get clarification of this issue when we're talking about a CM-approved site.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Are they listed in London, if so, they could be in BIG trouble over this, since they admitted this was NOT an issue of verifying ID, they are guilty of "requiring an unnecessary amount of personal information". This should be taken up with the office of the Information Commissioner, although the UK Government will probably want to look into this as a wider concern. It is worrying enough for the government that hotels try to con us into leaving passports at the check-in (they use them as "ransom" if they don't get paid), and sending anything other than a black and white copy, or allowing other than such to be taken, is a breack of the conditions of having a UK passport, although they are not stated on the document itself.

If there is so much worry about this, surely no casino requiring a passport "just form the sake of it", even when they are 100% happy with the ID of a player, should be on the accredited list. Even the REP was utterly powerless to prevent this abuse, they should be required to furnish an acceptable explanation, or be dropped from the accredited list.

Further, the habit of casinos rerquiring PASSPORTS needs to be looked at seriously, perhaps with a view to outlawing it altogether. In many cases, like this one, the casino has the player over a barrel, and they have to comply, despite being aware of the risks involved, and strong advice to the contrary.

This should also be brought up at eCogra, with a view to having a policy on copies of passports covering its member casinos.

Does the industry REALLY want to see governments take a sudden "knee jerk" reaction when someone in the right place starts thinking of all those copies of passports being DEMANDED by online casinos, with players being effectively blackmailed into complying. I can predict the most likely response, an amendment to anti-terrorist legislation that would make a demand under duress for a copy of a passport an offence to be dealt with under anti-terrorist legislation, rather than normal civil, criminal, or corporate law.
I have today been told that the UK government is thinking of making it illegal to photograph a policeman, and this would be dealt with under anti-terrorism legislation, not privacy rules, possibly even if it was just an innocent snap, such as might be made by a tourist. Not sure if they will stay in power long enough to pass this kind of daft totalitarian crap though.

 

[Rusty]

I agree with the above posts that some form of explanation should be forthcoming from the Unibet Rep, that is what he supposed to be here for right?
I also would be interested in Bryan's views if the Reps explanation is not satisfactory.
As VWM suggests this is tantamount to blackmail,
2. to attempt to influence (a person) by unfair pressure

As for the insidious construction of a police state here in the UK we are not powerless to prevent it.
Complacency and ignorance need to be replaced by vigilance and awareness.

People forget that the Government is supposed to work for us not the other way around so empower yourself and others and spread the word so that we can claim back our freedom and rights that have been systematically dismantled over the last Decade.

You can start now by visiting sites such as www.no2id.net to get a better understanding of just how much control and power over your life this Government desires.
It is about empowering the few and eroding your will and ability to fight back.
Draw a line in the sand now.

 

[The Dude]

I don't think you can equate sending in a copy of a passport to a publicly traded company that you are doing business with and a resort hotel's reception counter. Like I also mentioned in the video, if a hotel insists with copying your passport, then insist on writing VOID across the copy to discourage dodgy behavior.

I really don't think Unibet is dodgy, and they are only abiding by their standard operating procedures. Most legit casino's that have proper checks and balances in place, combat money laundering and player fraud, request IDs. If this is something that you feel uncomfortable with, I would suggest asking ahead of time if providing IDs are a requirement for payouts. You might be highly disappointed on the response.

I'm afraid it's something we have to live with - mutual trust. It's a shame that even after ten plus years of online casino activities, players still have a hard time trusting up-front, solidly run companies.

 

[The Dude]

And just to reiterate - this is one of the reasons to stick with reputable establishments and avoid uncharted waters. Identity theft is a huge issue.

 

[maxd]

.... Identity theft is a huge issue.

Just a general FYI on this, many of the recent fraud 'investigations' being conducted by various casino groups center on exactly this: identity theft is turning out to be one of the major components of many complaint and/or PAB issues.

 

[RobWin]

So what would happen with the player who does not even have a passport as there are most likely a hell of a lot more folks out there that don't own one as they are that do own one. Would this player then be required to go thru the usual two month waiting period just to get a passport issued to them in order to send it in to a casino for ID verification??

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya. I do not know about there, but in a lot of places it is easy to just go get a 2nd, photo, id card made. Hell, it is even easy to just make your own ID card, "as a 2nd one" so as not to have to use the passport at all.

I do not blame the Casino. Everyplace is like this. Several Years ago, when playing in the US was OK, I used Neteller. I went on Vacation to the Philippines, Played at Global Player, and withdrew Funds back into my 6 year old Neteller account. My account was promply Blocked. I called them, and since the Philippines was on their black list for weak anti money laundering laws, my account was frozen until i returned to the US.

I had to send in everything all over again, and then they reinstated my account. I am an on site apt manager. I pay no rent, and have no electric bill. This also sometimes causes a proabelm as these are required documents at some places. So, i make up for it by using other documents.

imhop;, If a large popular on line Casino wanted to steal someones ID, They Could do so very easily. But if they did, we all would have heard about it by now.

Also, most banks charge nothing, or very little for checking accounts. My Account that i use for Online Play, paypal, ect, is set up only for that. Meaning it usually has only $20 or so in it, and when i get deposits put back in, i transfer them out the next day to my main account. So, if it gets Hacked, then they made $20, lol.

 

[RobWin]

Hiya. I do not know about there, but in a lot of places it is easy to just go get a 2nd, photo, id card made. Hell, it is even easy to just make your own ID card, "as a 2nd one" so as not to have to use the passport at all.

I do not blame the Casino. Everyplace is like this. Several Years ago, when playing in the US was OK, I used Neteller. I went on Vacation to the Philippines, Played at Global Player, and withdrew Funds back into my 6 year old Neteller account. My account was promply Blocked. I called them, and since the Philippines was on their black list for weak anti money laundering laws, my account was frozen until i returned to the US.

I had to send in everything all over again, and then they reinstated my account. I am an on site apt manager. I pay no rent, and have no electric bill. This also sometimes causes a proabelm as these are required documents at some places. So, i make up for it by using other documents.

imhop;, If a large popular on line Casino wanted to steal someones ID, They Could do so very easily. But if they did, we all would have heard about it by now.

Also, most banks charge nothing, or very little for checking accounts. My Account that i use for Online Play, paypal, ect, is set up only for that. Meaning it usually has only $20 or so in it, and when i get deposits put back in, i transfer them out the next day to my main account. So, if it gets Hacked, then they made $20, lol.

What casino are you able to use PayPal at?? As far as I know PayPal has not been an option for online casino purchases ever since Ebay bought them out back a few years ago.

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya. I did not mean i use Pay Pal to play online with, i meant to say that ALL Internet transactions, at All places, come out of the same empty bank account. So, not just for online play, but anything at all.

 

[Pinababy69]

So what would happen with the player who does not even have a passport as there are most likely a hell of a lot more folks out there that don't own one as they are that do own one. Would this player then be required to go thru the usual two month waiting period just to get a passport issued to them in order to send it in to a casino for ID verification??

That would be me, no driver's licence, no passport. I don't drive, never have. And I've never had need of a passport as I don't travel abroad. I guess that the day may come when I need one, if I ever even plan to go to the States again.

For myself, I make sure that the ID I do have is acceptable and approved before I ever play.

I did this with both Inetbet and ClubWorld before I ever deposited. I scanned and emailed ID along with my CC and their faxback form(s), and had them pre-approve all of it. The only other places I've played in the last couple of years is 32Red and 3Dice, and I've not had to send in anything to either one.

Hassle free gaming is what it's all about. Hate to bang the drum, but the casinos accept the deposits (especially CC deposits) in a blink of an eye, no questions asked about identity or if the CC is valid. But try cashing out, different story.

That's why I stick with where I play now...no hassles getting paid, and great support. No interest at all in trying new casinos anymore.

 

[Jasminebed]

That would be me, no driver's licence, no passport. I don't drive, never have. And I've never had need of a passport as I don't travel abroad. I guess that the day may come when I need one, if I ever even plan to go to the States again.

For myself, I make sure that the ID I do have is acceptable and approved before I ever play.

I did this with both Inetbet and ClubWorld before I ever deposited. I scanned and emailed ID along with my CC and their faxback form(s), and had them pre-approve all of it. The only other places I've played in the last couple of years is 32Red and 3Dice, and I've not had to send in anything to either one.

Hassle free gaming is what it's all about. Hate to bang the drum, but the casinos accept the deposits (especially CC deposits) in a blink of an eye, no questions asked about identity or if the CC is valid. But try cashing out, different story.

That's why I stick with where I play now...no hassles getting paid, and great support. No interest at all in trying new casinos anymore.

Same here Pina, and until last year did not have a photo OHIP card either, something that in Ontario is NOT be used as ID. 32Red did require ID for recent cashout, but was promptly paid after submitting what they did request. I followed your advice earlier, and cleared my ID issue with CherryRed in advance, but after 7 deposits, I have yet to test the waters

Even players with previously submitted ID get asked sometimes for additional info, e.g. a more recent utility bill.

 

[MrWolf]

I don't think you can equate sending in a copy of a passport to a publicly traded company that you are doing business with and a resort hotel's reception counter. Like I also mentioned in the video, if a hotel insists with copying your passport, then insist on writing VOID across the copy to discourage dodgy behavior.

I really don't think Unibet is dodgy, and they are only abiding by their standard operating procedures. Most legit casino's that have proper checks and balances in place, combat money laundering and player fraud, request IDs. If this is something that you feel uncomfortable with, I would suggest asking ahead of time if providing IDs are a requirement for payouts. You might be highly disappointed on the response.

I'm afraid it's something we have to live with - mutual trust. It's a shame that even after ten plus years of online casino activities, players still have a hard time trusting up-front, solidly run companies.

Just because a company is publicly listed doesn't mean that the information isn't open to abuse from employees.

And with regard to my case, I sent in an (old style) UK drivers' licence first which was acceptable for my first withdrawal. It was when I redeposited and cashed in four times after that when the passport became an issue because suddenly my original ID wasn't acceptable.

 

[Rusty]

Just because a company is publicly listed doesn't mean that the information isn't open to abuse from employees.

And with regard to my case, I sent in an (old style) UK drivers' licence first which was acceptable for my first withdrawal. It was when I redeposited and cashed in four times after that when the passport became an issue because suddenly my original ID wasn't acceptable.

Very sound advice from casinomeister to ask about verification before you deposit and play but as Mr Wolf says the problem here was that the original documents were good enough One Day and then not the next.

"We thought you were genuine but then you won."

There is nothing to stop Casinos delaying or refusing payments in this manner and I think it is terrible that MrWolf was made to jump through hoops just to get His money from the Casino.

The fact that Unibet are a big company and still act in this bullying, we make the rules, manner just reminds me what a minefield online gambling can be.

Anyway glad you got your money MrWolf and you have added some valuable information to the forum about how Unibet may act upon a withdrawal request.

PS

I do not blame the Casino. Everyplace is like this.

Thankfully that statement is incorrect.

 

[zebedy]

this seems like another casino changing the rules as they see fit, you said.

I've just spoken to a customer services rep from the casino who informs me the reason they need a photo ID is because it's a requirement of the regulatory authorities in Malta. However, he was not able to provide me any links to back this up. He then told me it was in the casino's rules and pointed me to this section:

so where were these rules when you made your first withdrawals,

 

[vinylweatherman]

That would be me, no driver's licence, no passport. I don't drive, never have. And I've never had need of a passport as I don't travel abroad. I guess that the day may come when I need one, if I ever even plan to go to the States again.

For myself, I make sure that the ID I do have is acceptable and approved before I ever play.

I did this with both Inetbet and ClubWorld before I ever deposited. I scanned and emailed ID along with my CC and their faxback form(s), and had them pre-approve all of it. The only other places I've played in the last couple of years is 32Red and 3Dice, and I've not had to send in anything to either one.

Hassle free gaming is what it's all about. Hate to bang the drum, but the casinos accept the deposits (especially CC deposits) in a blink of an eye, no questions asked about identity or if the CC is valid. But try cashing out, different story.

That's why I stick with where I play now...no hassles getting paid, and great support. No interest at all in trying new casinos anymore.

Well, Mr Wolf did all this, and more. They were happy with his ID, and he was paid 4 cashouts. It was LATER that this passport issue arose. What made it disturbing was that the casino said they were quite happy with his ID, but STILL wanted the passport. The passport was NOT necessary to verify the ID of the player, and verifying the ID is the only reason casinos need documents.
Worse still, they would NOT accept the principle of "writing VOID over it" by the player blanking out the passport number, just as we are now advised to blank out the middle digits of the credit card image.
A listed company does NOT necessarily mean it can be trusted. There are many cases of big companies routinely screwing over customers, and MISHANDLING SENSITIVE DATA. One only has to see the lists of fines imposed by the various regulators, and changes in legislation to block loopholes. Two years ago, we would probably have trusted some of the biggest listed companies on the planet. Lehman bros, HSBC, Lloyds TSB - and these had far more credibility than a listed internet betting & casino company. The other concern is the rogue, or more often careless (perhaps badly trained) employee who's mishandling allows data to fall into the wrong hands. This is how "blaggers" work to convert a few snippets of information into a full blown ID, by effectively "blagging" their way past checks and balances at a busy undermanned, and perhaps poorly trained, customer support desk to get the missing pieces.

While casinos can justify the need for documentation, theyMUST accept that certain fields will be blanked out to ensure the document lacks enough information for it to be misused. With credit cards, the CCV and middle 8 digits are blanked. Why therefore cannot the unique passport number also be blanked, as this has nothing to do with cross checking the name and addresses with other documents, and account registration. Casinos still have not explained why they need a photo on any government issued document. They have no way to verify a photo against anything, so cannot really need it.

The final question is whether it is LEGAL for a UK citizen to provide, or a company to demand, a copy of all or part of a passport - it is this point above all that could get the casino into trouble. A while back, it might not have been such an issue for government, but in the current climate it may well be. At present, government officials are probably unaware that it is now common practice for some internet businessess to demand, and their customers to send, uncensored copies of the passport. This will be a far greater worry than the sending of copies of any other lesser ID document, such as a driving license, or various kinds of bills and statements.

Mr Wolf, in this case, was truly ambushed, as he had already long since passed verification, and was an established player. It would be up to Mr Wolf to pursue a complaint, perhaps if only on principle, over the issue of being forced to send a complete copy of his passport to an online casino, listed company or not.

The wider issue is that players have become used to sending copies of passports. Probably less risk of a leak than with government held data with a listed company, but when it becomes routine habit, players will be just as trusting towards ANY casino that spins the same story of "we need a copy of your passport, then you will be paid", and the player will think nothing of sending it as he has done before, and will of course be the last to find out if it was misused.

 

[Pinababy69]

Hey VWM, I am in total agreement with you, and am 100% on Mr. Wolf's side here. What he went through, IMO, is totally unacceptable. He'd already had four cashouts previously processed with the ID they already had....so there was no reason for them to all of a sudden change criteria in mid stream.

Also, the fact that they all of a sudden decided that it was being licensed under Malta that forced their hand on this is a bit outrageous. Why the sudden diligence when it came to adhering to ID requirements, according to them anyway? Malta can't be bothered to address year old player issues....I find it hard to believe they would all of a sudden take one of their licensees to task, because they didn't have the actual passport # on file. Sort of laughable actually.

This whole thread brought to mind another that I read recently. For the life of me, I can't remember if it was on this forum, or another....but the gist of it was that a player was uanble to cashout because the scan of their credit card they had sent a casino, had the CVC # blacked out on the back of the card. That is exactly what I do when I send my CC copy anywhere, black out the CVC (or CVV #). No way in hell am I sending that to anyone, anywhere, anytime. I find that to be a totally over the top, and out of line request. Wish I could remember where I'd seen it, and which casino it was.

 

[Rusty]

Hey VWM, I am in total agreement with you, and am 100% on Mr. Wolf's side here. What he went through, IMO, is totally unacceptable. He'd already had four cashouts previously processed with the ID they already had....so there was no reason for them to all of a sudden change criteria in mid stream.

Also, the fact that they all of a sudden decided that it was being licensed under Malta that forced their hand on this is a bit outrageous. Why the sudden diligence when it came to adhering to ID requirements, according to them anyway? Malta can't be bothered to address year old player issues....I find it hard to believe they would all of a sudden take one of their licensees to task, because they didn't have the actual passport # on file. Sort of laughable actually.

This whole thread brought to mind another that I read recently. For the life of me, I can't remember if it was on this forum, or another....but the gist of it was that a player was uanble to cashout because the scan of their credit card they had sent a casino, had the CVC # blacked out on the back of the card. That is exactly what I do when I send my CC copy anywhere, black out the CVC (or CVV #). No way in hell am I sending that to anyone, anywhere, anytime. I find that to be a totally over the top, and out of line request. Wish I could remember where I'd seen it, and which casino it was.

I believe Bodog request front and back of credit cards.