32RED downgrades TAB/SE

[mina1929]

I still love playing at 32 Red I am somehow drawn to it, telling take the 100% bonus come on

The only thing that really bothers me is no live chat when needed, otherwise games run smoothly for me and we have Mark

 

[Harry_BKK]

Hey Harry / Deeplay good posts, just because we get on and agree 99% of the time I will always welcome honest dis-agreements.

I think I could have worded my post slightly better, been a long and stressful day here, not that I am making excuses.

Will re-try to explain but if I do that right now I feel I will be posting more gobbledy gook!

You raise some excellent points in your last posts /summaries and I am probably on 'auto pilot' most of the time when it comes to defending my No.1 casino.

Hold my hands up I can be a bit selfish (on very rare occasions I must add) when it comes to changes that do not directly affect me.

No worries mate, you know that i defend them as well whenever it is possible.

But this TAB change they sneaked in on the quiet just before the Easter Holidays which is to me like preying on the weakest of the weak. That is just so disappointing. ....You know, lion packs do the same, we call it then survival of the strongest and they are clearly in the stronger position on this one as players are now at the mercy of support as to when the TAB is activated and can't do it themselves when they need or want it.

I only stumbled across it when i was looking to post a link for the TAB page for Webzcas in the other thread to help him to avoid a reversal over the Easter Holidays. Thought first i am doing something wrong, hence the WaybackMachine screenie i posted because it was still there just a short time ago.

 

[thebigs]

I watch a lot of horse racing and too be honest 32 red sponsor a serious amount of races which do not get me wrong is great for the sport.i am sure they also sponsor football quite heavily so add these huge overheads on top of the extras for licenses that were not there before I would say cuts would have had to be made somewhere along the line.

 

[Harry_BKK]

In further developments, 32Red have sent delegates to various Gamblers Anonymous meetings nationwide as part of the new direction the company is seeking.

A spokesman stated:

"At 32 Red we strive to maintain our industry- leading standards by incorporating and re- integrating lost players back into our database. We are pioneering a new path and are doing this to provide an outstanding product for everyone"

He was heard to mumble afterwards:

"I don't see what all the fuss is about and why everyone is crying about it. We're just doing everyone a favour by providing a great service, guy"

Further proposals by 32 Red include:

- Removing the 'Withdrawal' function. Given the recent spate of negative publicity the company has received in regards to reversals and the like, why not just remove the fucker altogether

-Giving blood. Choices will include weekly, fortnightly or monthly donations. Because 32 Red listen and care about their players

-Every 9th Lunar Cycle, a sacrifice must be made to Baal-hamon. Failure to do this will result in eternal damnation or having your account kept open. So no difference really

LOOOL ... 1, no, 2 words ... ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS!!!

 

[Harry_BKK]

I watch a lot of horse racing and too be honest 32 red sponsor a serious amount of races which do not get me wrong is great for the sport.i am sure they also sponsor football quite heavily so add these huge overheads on top of the extras for licenses that were not there before I would say cuts would have had to be made somewhere along the line.

Sorry thebigs but not quite right.

From their 2015 Yearly Report:

- ROI on marketing campaigns
> average of 3 months - this means the cost for a campaign is earned back on average in 3 months due to new sign-ups and increased player retention

- 32RED has no outstanding loan or other debt
> despite new UK POCT and the acquisition of Roxy Palace which was paid in cash and shares (a loan set-up for the purchase was not used)

- NGR (Net Gaming Revenue) increased by 52% from 2014
- Underlying EBITDA up 76% from 2014

However, net profit for 2015 was down to GBP 1.0Mio mainly due to the GBP2.0Mio paid in cash for Roxy Palace, the UK POCT and the increased investment into their new 32red.it operation (up to GBP1.5Mio from 0.5Mio in 2014).

Hence, all the player unfriendly measures taken in the past 2 years were designed to increase profits and shareholder value, I can't see any other reason when reading the reports. And since appr. 50% of the shares are held by the Directors of 32RED any changes that increases profitability for 32RED also increases the amount going into their pockets.

Logically, the conclusion must be then that it is all down to GREED!!!

 

[jjezebel37]

I'm really sad to see this change.
I love 32RED and have always had a soft spot regardless of the pending periods and payouts times.
Mark is also a fantastic Rep who is probably off on his Easter break and I have no doubt that we will get some answers from him when he's back.

 

[maxd]

Guys, I would advise caution in jumping to conclusions on this "Take A Break" thing. I had a fairly lengthy conversation with the casino manager last week and we talked specifically about that feature and "the importance of it to players." Those were his words so I'd be quite surprised if it just got yanked without notice a few days later.

I'll flag this to the rep's attention and ask for clarification. In the meantime I'd suggest a "how odd, what's up?" approach here as opposed to the "that's it, they're headed down the bog!" sentiment that I saw earlier in the thread.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Guys, I would advise caution in jumping to conclusions on this "Take A Break" thing. I had a fairly lengthy conversation with the casino manager last week and we talked specifically about that feature and "the importance of it to players." Those were his words so I'd be quite surprised if it just got yanked without notice a few days later.

I'll flag this to the rep's attention and ask for clarification. In the meantime I'd suggest a "how odd, what's up?" approach here as opposed to the "that's it, they're headed down the bog!" sentiment that I saw earlier in the thread.

Thanks Max, clarification would be very welcome.

However, i searched a little further using Wayback and the online option was still active on 22nd March 2016, hence they changed the procedure conveniently just before the long Easter Weekend, see screenshot 1.

Further, what also concerns me is the Self Exclusion part. They highlight in very big letters the phone number a player has to call to request a SE form (why do they want/need to speak to a player who decided to SE??? ) and only at the end of the paragraph they state that the SE can be done online. The link can be hardly seen as it is not highlighted at all, even weaker color as the text and only underlined, see screenshot 2.

This again will leave an account opened longer than it should be when players decide to do a SE and he/she is now at the mercy of 32RED as to which point the account will be locked.

Would appreciate a clarification to this as well in regards to "responsible gambling" policies at 32REd.

Screenshot 1



Screenshot 2

 

[maxd]

Absolutely! Clarification is very much called for here. They've always been good about such things in the past, I'm sure they'll step up and let us know what's the deal with this, and why.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Absolutely! Clarification is very much called for here. They've always been good about such things in the past, I'm sure they'll step up and let us know what's the deal with this, and why.

Sorry Max for being so persistent, but i am very sensitive when it comes to RG, maybe too sensitive.

Hence, i would like 32RED to explain as well what happened in the case below.

- Is a TAB not applied whenever the player requests it, no questions asked?
- Is it SOP at 32RED to try and persuade the player not to activate a TAB or SE? (I don't think it is but the post below suggests it might be).

I've posted about this before, I had a £200 WD pending, and i wanted to take a 7day break so that I wouldn't reverse.

I e-mailed and spoke ton live chat and they tried to persuade me to stay, and left my account active for the whole pending period, I think I was 10 days before it was closed.

I've since vacated 32red, every move they make seems to be backwards, and it's quite disheartening considering I've been playing there for many years.

 

[maxd]

Ok, I have heard back from the rep on this. Their explanation seems quite reasonable to me though the end result -- still a work in progress as I understand it -- won't be to everybody's liking.

That said it is a public holiday here in the UK so the official statement from them probably can't be expected today.

One thing I will add is that they are still compliant as far as they, and I, read the UKGC rules. Namely that SE is "available directly in the software and can be actioned without the need to contact nor talk to an individual."

The rest of it will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Ok, I have heard back from the rep on this. Their explanation seems quite reasonable to me though the end result -- still a work in progress as I understand it -- won't be to everybody's liking.

That said it is a public holiday here in the UK so the official statement from them probably can't be expected today.

One thing I will add is that they are still compliant as far as they, and I, read the UKGC rules. Namely that SE is "available directly in the software and can be actioned without the need to contact nor talk to an individual."

The rest of it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Thanks for the update Max

FYI, just for transparency, I have sent a request to the UKGC to clarify whether having to send an email for a TAB activation is valid as "REMOTE TIME-OUT FACILITY" as stipulated in their article 3.3.4

If it is, then 32RED is indeed compliant with the UKGC rules.

 

[Tirilej]

Thanks for the update Max

FYI, just for transparency, I have sent a request to the UKGC to clarify whether having to send an email for a TAB activation is valid as "REMOTE TIME-OUT FACILITY" as stipulated in their article 3.3.4

If it is, then 32RED is indeed compliant with the UKGC rules.

I believe it is since there are several casinos that asks people to send them emails if they want to take a break or self exclude.

I'm happy I never have used the Time out thing or Self excluded. If I ever decide to use it I can not do it from their website since it's not my email provider.
I guess and hope they are just as fast with the requests if someone is sending a normal email to them. It seems silly otherwise to take a break for 24 hours if it's not done until after 12 hours
I suggest people who have it like me write ''Take a 24 hour break'' in the title and hope it speed things up.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I believe it is since there are several casinos that asks people to send them emails if they want to take a break or self exclude.

I'm happy I never have used the Time out thing or Self excluded. If I ever decide to use it I can not do it from their website since it's not my email provider.
I guess and hope they are just as fast with the requests if someone is sending a normal email to them. It seems silly otherwise to take a break for 24 hours if it's not done until after 12 hours
I suggest people who have it like me write ''Take a 24 hour break'' in the title and hope it speed things up.

Exactly my point Sarah

A player is in distress and feels he needs a break yet has to rely on a support agent picking up his email quickly.

My experience with emails to 32RED is that it takes anything from a few hours up to more than 1 day to receive an answer. All this time the player still has access to his account and can lose even more, causing even more problems for him.

EDIT: Will keep "schtumm" now and wait for their statement

 

[Tirilej]

EDIT: Will keep "schtumm" now and wait for their statement

I believe that when I see it

 

[Jono777]

I believe that when I see it

Harry's as bad as myself when he gets 'A bee in his bonnet'

 

[dunover]

Video of the process...

OK. Rather than moan and suppose, I have investigated this myself. Unfortunately Max the process is not self-set and bloody difficult. the accusations would appear to be correct. It took ages in my a/c to get through the endless pop-ups and forms. No other accredited site I've seen fails to offer self-set easy RG.

 

[Deeplay]

OK. Rather than moan and suppose, I have investigated this myself. Unfortunately Max the process is not self-set and bloody difficult. the accusations would appear to be correct. It took ages in my a/c to get through the endless pop-ups and forms. No other accredited site I've seen fails to offer self-set easy RG.



Good you highlight this. I have had exactly the same issues when at first looking to limit deposits.
It is a terrible set up. But I will refrain from making any other comment on this until we have heard
the statement from them tomorrow. But one last thing. They should be no statement needed. It should
be a given that all RS options are a click away and easy to find from the website or the software. And
they clearly are not.

But lets wait and hear them out. Thanks for the video at least people can now see what this actually all means.

 

[Harry_BKK]

OK. Rather than moan and suppose, I have investigated this myself. Unfortunately Max the process is not self-set and bloody difficult. the accusations would appear to be correct. It took ages in my a/c to get through the endless pop-ups and forms. No other accredited site I've seen fails to offer self-set easy RG.

Sorry i have to do one more post but only because i have to say thank you.

Thank you Dunover for taking the time and proving what has been said in this thread, i really appreciate it.

You said that the set-up is 20th century. Well, it was 21st century until recently....they had direct links for TAB/SE and a direct button for the LiveChat.

Hence, they consciously changed it for the worse, making it very hard and difficult for a player to do a TAB/SE activation or contact support. I would really like to hear why they decided to do it and not just a corporate answer aka "business decision".

Thanks again

 

[dunover]

Ok, I have heard back from the rep on this. Their explanation seems quite reasonable to me though the end result -- still a work in progress as I understand it -- won't be to everybody's liking.

That said it is a public holiday here in the UK so the official statement from them probably can't be expected today.

One thing I will add is that they are still compliant as far as they, and I, read the UKGC rules. Namely that SE is "available directly in the software and can be actioned without the need to contact nor talk to an individual."
The rest of it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Well Max, with all due respect that is clearly not the case here. You must send an e-mail. So, let's imagine a player has lost his reason, needs to press the 'escape button' - has just lost his wages and it about to spunk this month's rent. He seeks a way to stop, a finality to truncate his compulsive behaviour. He is then faced with the incredibly difficult path I demonstrated in the video, expected to do all that while his mind is altered. Even if he gets that far, he then finds yet more forms to fill and then MAY get dealt with in 24 hours. All the time his mind is screaming "STOP ME NOW, PLEASE!" Mmmmmm....

3. Things here:

A. As it stands they ARE in breach of the UKGC tenets on RG you quoted.
B. If they think they AREN'T then they read the tenets very differently to every other site.
C. Why is it every other site has clearly defined TAB/SE menus easily accessible and self-set?

Another thing worth mentioning. I have noticed recently when joining new casinos that quite often when I make my first visit to the cashier, even before I start playing, there is a button or screen inviting me to impose a deposit limit immediately. This goes above and beyond the rules of the UKGC but says good things about RG. I must also add that their removal of deposit limits utilizes the MINIMUM 24hr. lapse - most sites it's 7 days.
Sky and Grosvenor are 2 other casinos that use the minimum 1 day but they have proper self-set SE/TAB.

So all things considered, regardless of whether this is accidental for a weekend or a mighty balls-up 32red do the minimum possible for RG and make that minimum as hard as possible to implement as I demonstrated.

I too will be very interested to hear their reasons for this and their stance on RG and why it compares so badly to other accredited sites.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Well I have to break my word again as i have come across another pretty shocking matter.

On the RG page they ask the player to send an email to them by clicking on the link provided. Once you click that link the email client opens and there is a prepared text where the player has to fill out a few things, see screenshot below.

Shockingly they are asking a player to send acc.no., name, surname, date of birth and registered email address via an unsecured email!!!!

Seriously 32RED????

 

[Tirilej]

Well I have to break my word again as i have come across another pretty shocking matter.

On the RG page they ask the player to send an email to them by clicking on the link provided. Once you click that link the email client opens and there is a prepared text where the player has to fill out a few things, see screenshot below.

Shockingly they are asking a player to send acc.no., name, surname, date of birth and registered email address via an unsecured email!!!!

Seriously 32RED????

How is that different from sending all your documents through email?

Just for your information Harry I said there are other casinos that doesn't allow you to set any limits, self exclude or take a break by yourself.
At Casino Luck/Next you have to send an email to support no matter what it is about. I thought that was the most common way of dealing with this, not something automatic. Most casinos do it that way. Are they all breaking some kind of rule?

I don't like 32Red's new functions with everything being so difficult to find though.

 

[maxd]

Fair enough guys, I appreciate you looking into this and I hear that it's something important to you as players and for your fellow players.

That said I see there being two aspects to this, one that I have some control over and the 2nd I certainly do not.

The first is whether 32Red is and remains UKGC compliant. I'll be frank here: the 32Red boys know their shit and I would be gob-smacked if they had put something in place that was UKGC non-compliant. However, it's worth being sure so tomorrow -- a proper work day unlike the holiday I am (supposed to be) enjoying today -- I'll dig into the UKGC stuff and see what's what.

The 2nd thing is what 32Red does or does not decide to do in response to the concerns raised here. Again I'll be frank and tell you what you already know: they'll do what they think best for their business. They've grown from small company to serious enterprise over the years and I know all too well that corporate Rules Of Conduct can and will change through the process. As long as they are compliant with their Accredited status and their licensing requirements I am not going to castigate them for the business decisions they make. Of course some of those decisions may not be applause-worthy, such is the nature of corporate decision-making but that is not a windmill I have much interest in hurling myself against (been there, done that). On the other hand you, the readership, are free to make your own judgments and post accordingly.

 

[dunover]

How is that different from sending all your documents through email?

Just for your information Harry I said there are other casinos that doesn't allow you to set any limits, self exclude or take a break by yourself.At Casino Luck/Next you have to send an email to support no matter what it is about. I thought that was the most common way of dealing with this, not something automatic. Most casinos do it that way. Are they all breaking some kind of rule?

I don't like 32Red's new functions with everything being so difficult to find though.

Can you tell us any other accredited casinos that do this? I ask because we have been judging this behaviour in relation to accredited sites. There aren't any UKGC licensed ones that I have seen, accredited or not, that do this. I have checked every single one I promote and they all have self-set TAB/SE. The reason being that they are required to, as Max quoted.

 

[Tirilej]

Can you tell us any other accredited casinos that do this? I ask because we have been judging this behaviour in relation to accredited sites. There aren't any UKGC licensed ones that I have seen, accredited or not, that do this. I have checked every single one I promote and they all have self-set TAB/SE. The reason being that they are required to, as Max quoted.

All who are using Every Matrix I believe require emails. I haven't checked them all so I'm not sure.
You also have to remember I'm not in uk so maybe they have it different for you guys.

I will check a few more.