This Is Vegas Owe Me 80,000 USD

[vinylweatherman]

Yes, they can.
Back in March I was playing a huge welcome bonus at Orange Gamez on Winter Wonders. After playing for some time at $7.50/spin I decided to up it to the max of $18.75/spin; It was fine for about 5 or 6 spins, then I got "booted" out of the game. When I came back in the maximum was $7.50/spin.
Tried the same thing on Love and Money and got the same result!


Even with my case above, I VERY seriously doubt there is someone sitting there in the casino tracking what players are doing. I think it's much more likely to be some automated system, though why it let me do any big spins at all does cast some uncertainty on that...

However, I still find it extremely unlikely that TiV would allow bets of $50, let alone $100/spin on ANY of their slots.

KK

So, why have it at $18.75 max to start with, if a mere 6 spins scares them enough to boot a player and reset it.

It is pretty naive of Rival to do it this way, giving us PROOF POSITIVE that they boot players in order to mess with their games WHILST THEY ARE PLAYING.

This accusation was levelled at RTG, and a couple of ex employees said it was so, but other operators said it was not.

Now, we have POSITIVE PROOF that one major software does indeed do this to player, whether it really is someone sitting there monitoring, or some automated system.

If it happened to KK, this is "positive proof" as far as I am concerned, and backs up the OP's story of him being able to bet $100, and later finding he can't.

Add this to the Tradition BJ scandal, and we seem to have caught Rival with their pants down yet again. Rival at the time said they had withdrawn the ability of operators to mess with the games, but it seems they were "economical with the truth" because they clearly have some kind of system that tracks individual players, and changes their betting limits in play.

If Rival passed the card issue on to TiV, it means Sloto must have passed it to Rival, since they are fully independent, and do NOT share the Rival processor, nor support.

By passing this information to Rival, and then NOT updating it when the issue was resolved, Sloto have committed a legal libel, and Rival have passed this incorrect or incomplete information to TiV, who have acted upon it causing the player financial damage.

The initial information was a mistake, since the card did not belong to this player, but another - so has nothing to do with him.

 

[lnspin]

Any update on this

 

[gid88]

This Is Vegas owe me 80,000usd

Finally posted a PAB. Interestingly, i've received a number of emails from ex Sloto, Rival and TIV casino employees who have passed on some interesting information to me including contact emails and phone numbers of the owners of the various casinos. They aslo made statements to the effect that "manipulation of software" for "high rollers" happens frequently. Disappointing to hear this and I will NEVER GO NEAR a Rival Casino again !!!

32 Red...has been very good I must say. Efficient deposits and efficient withdrawals. Over the past 3 weeks, I must have deposited 15K with a return of 17K, so up 2K, not much of a return but the games, customer support and efficiency is quite amazing and I am impressed. Sometimes its not all about the winning (except of course when you do win BIG and the casino refuses to pay you out). It's the overall experience.....I thought Rival had turned me off online casinos completely, however 32Red has brought some confidence back.

 

[Nate]

They aslo made statements to the effect that "manipulation of software" for "high rollers" happens frequently. Disappointing to hear this and I will NEVER GO NEAR a Rival Casino again !!!

Wow... thats a serious statement. Did they elaborate on how? - Or are you referring to the Boot and Change max bet limits scenario...

Interested to know..

Nate

 

[all4greed]

Finally posted a PAB. Interestingly, i've received a number of emails from ex Sloto, Rival and TIV casino employees who have passed on some interesting information to me including contact emails and phone numbers of the owners of the various casinos. They aslo made statements to the effect that "manipulation of software" for "high rollers" happens frequently. Disappointing to hear this and I will NEVER GO NEAR a Rival Casino again !!!

So let me get this straight. Former employees emailed you to let you know there is deliberate fraud? How many ex-employees are you talking about? Where did they get the info to contact you and how were they aware of your situation?

 

[Simmo!]

Finally posted a PAB. Interestingly, i've received a number of emails from ex Sloto, Rival and TIV casino employees who have passed on some interesting information to me including contact emails and phone numbers of the owners of the various casinos. They aslo made statements to the effect that "manipulation of software" for "high rollers" happens frequently. Disappointing to hear this and I will NEVER GO NEAR a Rival Casino again.

Can you make sure that information goes into the PAB process as it's fairly serious stuff. Unfortunately it's always hard to tell if one is dealing with disgruntled ex-employees or legit claims. It's relatively frequent for disgruntled players/ex-employees (etc) to cast aspersions as a way of revenge and this should be looked into before any conclusions are drawn. I'm not suggesting you are doing this by the way, just that it needs to be looked into by Max or Bryan.

 

[takethemoney]

After reading this thread, suffice to say, I am never going near another Rival casino with my money again. I always felt they were highly suspect and as of late I had not been depositing very often at them, but this is, if true, is just the nail in the coffin for me. If they are doing what is implied here, I hope Bryan just rogues the software.

 

[Redbush54]

Finally posted a PAB. Interestingly, i've received a number of emails from ex Sloto, Rival and TIV casino employees who have passed on some interesting information to me including contact emails and phone numbers of the owners of the various casinos. They aslo made statements to the effect that "manipulation of software" for "high rollers" happens frequently. Disappointing to hear this and I will NEVER GO NEAR a Rival Casino again !!!

IMO as this is definitely important, shouldn't this be discussed after the PAB has been resolved as it might cause a derail in discussions with all parties involved? I would think the most important thing would be to get the op his/her money.

By all means the accusation of the manipulation of software is most definitely rogue behavior and should be dealt with accordingly. There is a thread here that discusses that very thing

 

[gid88]

That's correct - I should have said "alleged" former employees contacted me via email. I did not reply to any and all three of them (one allegedly from Sloto and two allegedly from TIV). Took it with a grain of salt given they are "ex", but i thought i'd pass the information onto this forum. The manipulation doesn't bother me, I don't play at these places anymore. I've received PM's from other members who "felt" that there was some manipulation going on at various Rival casinos.

 

[all4greed]

Amazing. I'm very interested in how this all plays out.

 

[gid88]

How do I follow up on a PAB ?

 

[maxd]

How do I follow up on a PAB ?

I'm the PAB guy so feel free to email me at max.drayman AT casinomeister.com or PM me Link Outdated / Removed.

If you want to complain about how your PAB is/was handled then Bryan is your man: bryan AT casinomeister.com or PM Link Outdated / Removed.

 

[Casinomeister]

@gid88

Welcome to the forum. If you'd like to forward the info from the ex-employees to me, that would be most helpful. It seems to be another piece of the Rival puzzle.

Max has received your PAB and should be processing it shortly. Thanks for your patience.

 

[SlotsLover]

software manipulation

That's correct - I should have said "alleged" former employees contacted me via email. I did not reply to any and all three of them (one allegedly from Sloto and two allegedly from TIV). Took it with a grain of salt given they are "ex", but i thought i'd pass the information onto this forum. The manipulation doesn't bother me, I don't play at these places anymore. I've received PM's from other members who "felt" that there was some manipulation going on at various Rival casinos.

Did they have any additional information on what "software manipulation" means? Does it mean they are resetting the RTP, or more likely, changing the limits? I've had the latter done to me by Rival and RTG in the middle of a play but I'm not sure the former is possible with a third party provider.

 

[gid88]

this is a very small extract from one of the emails I received:

"I know of the actions management has taken to prevent your account from winning. They have deliberately lowered payout percentages against your account.".

 

[takethemoney]

this is a very small extract from one of the emails I received:

"I know of the actions management has taken to prevent your account from winning. They have deliberately lowered payout percentages against your account.".

If this can be done at Rival, I have no doubt this can be done at RTG or others as well. That could explain why after I won over $45k in random jackpots at Cherry Red, I have not been able to get ahead on 102 deposits since. It makes me suspicious that they "have my number" and have lowered my global RTP across the board at all RTGs. I will never know. That's ok. Someday someone will blow all of this out of the water. I'm not risking hardly any money anymore.

 

[same_old]

I think max and Bryan would like you to send them that info privately.

They will also want you to send them the originals that you got so they can trace it form there.

I really do suggest you supply all the original content as well as being open to what Bryan and Max ask..

 

[SlotsLover]

seems odd and difficult

this is a very small extract from one of the emails I received:

"I know of the actions management has taken to prevent your account from winning. They have deliberately lowered payout percentages against your account.".

Just because a former employee said this does mean that it is true. The way that I believe your payout percentages can be lowered is by reducing the payouts. For example, three cherries may pay only 10 coins, where before it paid 15. This is very easy to check for, as one can easily look at the paytables. I have seen this for example at three card poker, where the payouts can be 1-4-5 for a straight, three of a kind, and a straight flush, respectively or as low as 1-2-3 for those hands. But this can all be seen in the paytable. On licensed softwares such as RTG, I do not believe that the operator can alter the outcomes of the cards (or reels). For example, the operator can't influence how often you get a bonus round or how often you get dealt blackjack.

I have run into many rogue casinos, but I trust rtg, rival, and microgaming completely. For them to change the outcomes would be an amazingly risky conspiracy that once uncovered, would ruin their companies. Do you think they offer a "switch" and tell this to the operator in the back room and make him promise not to tell? Seems highly unlikely to me. I think losing streaks create a lot of paranoia that can be fixed by one or two good spins. I recently lost over 100 consecutive deposits and was stuck 5 figures on slots at one rtg casino without ever being ahead. However, in the last month I've gotten pretty much even as now I have hit a number of good spins and bonus rounds.

Gambling, and slot machines especially have tremendous high variance and swings and it's very easy to believe that "changes have been made" or that the "switch has been flipped."

 

[gid88]

I think max and Bryan would like you to send them that info privately.

They will also want you to send them the originals that you got so they can trace it form there.

I really do suggest you supply all the original content as well as being open to what Bryan and Max ask..

The person who emailed me specifically asked for discretion. I'm sure the Rival guys know or will come to know who the person is as they indicated that proceedings have begun against a particular casino....no doubt Rival will find out the identity of this person in any court claim submitted.

I haven't been asked of anything from Mark or Bryan unless I have missed a posting or message.

 

[gid88]

Just because a former employee said this does mean that it is true. The way that I believe your payout percentages can be lowered is by reducing the payouts. For example, three cherries may pay only 10 coins, where before it paid 15. This is very easy to check for, as one can easily look at the paytables. I have seen this for example at three card poker, where the payouts can be 1-4-5 for a straight, three of a kind, and a straight flush, respectively or as low as 1-2-3 for those hands. But this can all be seen in the paytable. On licensed softwares such as RTG, I do not believe that the operator can alter the outcomes of the cards (or reels). For example, the operator can't influence how often you get a bonus round or how often you get dealt blackjack.

I have run into many rogue casinos, but I trust rtg, rival, and microgaming completely. For them to change the outcomes would be an amazingly risky conspiracy that once uncovered, would ruin their companies. Do you think they offer a "switch" and tell this to the operator in the back room and make him promise not to tell? Seems highly unlikely to me. I think losing streaks create a lot of paranoia that can be fixed by one or two good spins. I recently lost over 100 consecutive deposits and was stuck 5 figures on slots at one rtg casino without ever being ahead. However, in the last month I've gotten pretty much even as now I have hit a number of good spins and bonus rounds.

Gambling, and slot machines especially have tremendous high variance and swings and it's very easy to believe that "changes have been made" or that the "switch has been flipped."

I think depending on whether you're a VIP or high Roller, you "may" experience a different level of service. At one Rival casino where I was depositing and playing high amounts, I had a VIP manager and would get instant emails congratulating me if I won in excess of $5K within a period of say half an hour. As for what a former employee said to me, I agree may or may not be true regarding manipulation of odds. As for monitoring, I believe this absolutely happens - it would be silly for a casino land based or online, not to be doing this. They are in the business of making money. The extent of their response and intrusion to your gaming habits is different and varies between casinos (both online and land based). That being said and not to get off topic............TIV still owe me over 80K !!

 

[SlotsLover]

monitoring

Yes, I agree they monitor some of the players for sure. I've been called in the middle of a play and also have had my limits changed.

 

[4 of a kind]

but I trust rtg, rival, and microgaming completely.

I recently lost over 100 consecutive deposits and was stuck 5 figures on slots at one rtg casino without ever being ahead. However, in the last month I've gotten pretty much even as now I have hit a number of good spins and bonus rounds.

Gambling, and slot machines especially have tremendous high variance and swings and it's very easy to believe that "changes have been made" or that the "switch has been flipped."

I must admit that it's refreshing to see a new member here so optimistic and trusting. Within your short membership here so far and only 18 posts, you managed to share with us already your great experiences with 6 or 7 different casinos. Hope this never ends for you along with never becoming one of the millions of victims that would argue otherwise, (similar to the OP here.)

 

[deucebag]

Just because a former employee said this does mean that it is true. The way that I believe your payout percentages can be lowered is by reducing the payouts. For example, three cherries may pay only 10 coins, where before it paid 15. This is very easy to check for, as one can easily look at the paytables. I have seen this for example at three card poker, where the payouts can be 1-4-5 for a straight, three of a kind, and a straight flush, respectively or as low as 1-2-3 for those hands. But this can all be seen in the paytable. On licensed softwares such as RTG, I do not believe that the operator can alter the outcomes of the cards (or reels). For example, the operator can't influence how often you get a bonus round or how often you get dealt blackjack.

I have run into many rogue casinos, but I trust rtg, rival, and microgaming completely. For them to change the outcomes would be an amazingly risky conspiracy that once uncovered, would ruin their companies. Do you think they offer a "switch" and tell this to the operator in the back room and make him promise not to tell? Seems highly unlikely to me. I think losing streaks create a lot of paranoia that can be fixed by one or two good spins. I recently lost over 100 consecutive deposits and was stuck 5 figures on slots at one rtg casino without ever being ahead. However, in the last month I've gotten pretty much even as now I have hit a number of good spins and bonus rounds.

This is written by someone who is clearly ignorant of history of Rival, and I'm specifically thinking about the Tradition vs JHV/SamD case.

We already know for a fact that Rival operators can change game settings on the fly. This was proved and admitted in the Tradition case. We also know for a fact that RTP-settings for slots are adjustable. This would not be detected by the player, because the pay table would remain the same.

It's worth noting that KK decided to thank SlotsLover for this post. I'm sure SlotsLover has the best intentions, and is simply uninformed. KK, on the other hand, is informed. Why does KK thank a poster who he knows is uninformed? (That's a rhetorical question.)

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi all,

I'm just getting started on this one...

I really hate to say this, but I seriously doubt the OP will see $8 dollars worth of his $80k winnings. The writing has been on the wall for a number of months now that there are software and payment issues with Rival. They just don't seem to have the capability of paying anyone - affiliates included.

The OP PMd me some of what he has, and I can clearly state that I know this "ex-employee" and would trust what this person is saying. Looks like a long day ahead of us

 

[BingoT]

Least they know about this.

Monday, September 6, 2010 11:14 PM
Thank you for the notice and the manager is waiting for a pitch a bitch
to be submitted.

Sincerely,

Alicia