Are Lock affiliates getting paid?

[zanzibar]

[Max says: these posts were split off from This Is Vegas Owe Me 80,000 USD, hopefully for obvious reasons.]

Is this another Lock whereby affiliates are being paid while players are being slow paid if paid at all????? In Lock's situation, it certainly is contrary to CM's Mission Statement as I understand it. Is it also with Rival?

Not to derail this thread ... but I can assure you from first hand experience that not all Lock Casino affiliates are being paid, at least not in the last 6 months since their funds were confiscated. So can you give up on that little uninformed chestnut that you keep mentioning? Thanks.

Carry on with the Rival bashing ... I am enjoying it because its so true.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Not to derail this thread ... but I can assure you from first hand experience that not all Lock Casino affiliates are being paid, at least not in the last 6 months since their funds were confiscated. So can you give up on that little uninformed chestnut that you keep mentioning? Thanks.

Carry on with the Rival bashing ... I am enjoying it because its so true.

Did I say all the affiliates of Lock and Rival had been/were/whatever paid????............ I referenced the subject payments of both the Lock (see the Lock thread) and Rival affiliates via links.......If one affiliate has been paid (as per the subject links one or more affiliate-s- has been paid cash dollars et al) while players are not being paid or slow paid by Lock and/or Rival, then that is one Lock and/or Rival affiliate too many paid afaic.

 

[zanzibar]

Did I say all the affiliates of Lock and Rival had been/were/whatever paid????............ I referenced the subject payments of both the Lock (see the Lock thread) and Rival affiliates via links.......If one affiliate has been paid (as per the subject links one or more affiliate-s- has been paid cash dollars et al) while players are not being paid or slow paid by Lock and/or Rival, then that is one Lock and/or Rival affiliate too many paid afaic.

Yes you said "affiliates", plural. You did not qualify your statement with a "some" or "selected" or a "handful" - you were clearly implying that all affiliates are making cash from Lock Casino at the expense of players which is simply untrue. From what we can tell, they are so short of cash that they are struggling to pay anyone anything.

I even indulged your claims but I could find nothing in the "Lock heads up" thread about affiliates being paid (I searched the thread using the word "affiliate"). Please PM me if you were referring to another thread somewhere. Old / Expired Link. Personally I do not know of any Lock affiliates that have been paid since March or so.

So unless you have anything better than that (and if you do PM it to me because I would be very interested), stop spreading misinformation and inferring that all these "affiliates" are being paid while players are waiting in line behind them. This Rival situation is bad enough, you do not need to embellish things by conflating random other situations that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Apologies everyone else, last off topic post in this thread.

 

[winbig]

Yes you said "affiliates", plural. You did not qualify your statement with a "some" or "selected" or a "handful" - you were clearly implying that all affiliates are making cash from Lock Casino at the expense of players which is simply untrue. From what we can tell, they are so short of cash that they are struggling to pay anyone anything.

I even indulged your claims but I could find nothing in the "Lock heads up" thread about affiliates being paid (I searched the thread using the word "affiliate"). Please PM me if you were referring to another thread somewhere. Old / Expired Link. Personally I do not know of any Lock affiliates that have been paid since March or so.

So unless you have anything better than that (and if you do PM it to me because I would be very interested), stop spreading misinformation and inferring that all these "affiliates" are being paid while players are waiting in line behind them. This Rival situation is bad enough, you do not need to embellish things by conflating random other situations that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Apologies everyone else, last off topic post in this thread.

You're splitting hairs here. How does the word "affiliates" imply all affiliates? So what if it's plural. That doesn't make it out to mean that every affiliate has been paid, it just means that more than one has been.

[/OT]

(sent note to mods to split the thread, I'm sure this warrants further discussion?)

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I even indulged your claims but I could find nothing in the "Lock heads up" thread about affiliates being paid (I searched the thread using the word "affiliate"). Please PM me if you were referring to another thread somewhere. Old / Expired Link. Personally I do not know of any Lock affiliates that have been paid since March or so.

FYI, see the "Lock redeemed....." thread and it is actually a screenshot that I posted (and not a link, my bad but iirc another poster thereafter provides the link to the thread that in addition to my posted SS shows the means of payment) of the same Lock affiliate payment you also mention again in the quote above.

Partner, as WB posted you are splitting hairs , or playing semantics, yes???? That said, without players (check that, losing players in most cases and programs), the perverse and predatory occupation of online casino marketing affiliate(s) just is not necessary (regardless of the sugar-coating rhetoric). Of course, JMO

 

[zanzibar]

Thanks for the link to the "Lock Redeemed" thread. If anything it supports what I am saying. You have whipped up a frenzied mob of players who seem to think that all these scumbags in the "affiliate army" are getting paid while they are not. Well now you know that you are wrong. These muppets at Lock Casino are currently slow paying players, and not paying affiliates at all.

You're splitting hairs here. How does the word "affiliates" imply all affiliates? So what if it's plural. That doesn't make it out to mean that every affiliate has been paid, it just means that more than one has been.

As for splitting hairs and semantics ... Nash has made the sweeping generalisation that multiple affiliates have been paid, at the expense of players. But we can only find evidence of a single payment this year - for which neither of us even knows what amount. Then trying to hide behind the statement "did I say all affiliates"? If that is not hair splitting then what is?

I could just as easily argue "why are players being paid while we are not, even in instalments". But do you know what? We don't - we just write the debt off, warn our visitors not to play there, learn a lesson never to deal with a casino that has not been in business for a considerable amount of time, and hope one day if we are lucky they may pay.

Its obvious you (Nash) have a problem with affiliates in general. I take offence at being called "perverse and predatory". There are bad affiliates, just as there are bad casinos, bad players, and bad forum posters. Granted. But please do not tar everyone with the same brush... after all this very site that we are both posting on earns money from casinos and I think that we can both agree that it provides a valuable service to players, as do many other affiliate sites.

 

[winbig]

These muppets at Lock Casino are currently slow paying players, and not paying affiliates at all.

There's 2 sides to everything - That statement isn't correct. According to what you said, 1 affiliate got paid, so that's a far cry from no affiliates being paid.

*shrug*

And for an affiliate to keep sending players to Lock, even though they know that Lock is taking forever, if at all, to pay players, well, that's just wrong in my book. Of course affiliates have to make a living, but not by feeding players to the sharks.

And as far as stating that *all* or *no* affiliates are getting paid, unless Lock has opened up the books for anyone, nobody can say without a shadow of a doubt who's getting paid and when. It's not like every single online casino affiliate posts on the "industry" forums to let others know if/when they get paid. So for now, it's all speculation.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

And for an affiliate to keep sending players to Lock, even though they know that Lock is taking forever, if at all, to pay players, well, that's just wrong in my book. Of course affiliates have to make a living, but not by feeding players to the sharks.

This LOCK situation is EXACTLY why the affiliate model is such a bad business model and is so damaging for players in it's current format.

In an example like this you get a compromised situation between the affiliates and the casino that is very dangerous for the player. The only way the casino can get out of the trading losses is to get more players in and the only way affiliates can get paid is to send more players to the casino!

Us players must be total mugs.

What I would like to see is affiliates to have a license like travel agents have. So if you use a particular affiliate and the casino doesn't pay you as a player, you should be able to go back to the affiliate and recover the payment from the affiliate. That's only fair because the affiliates are making profit out of you so it's only right they should compensate and insure themselves against casino non payment. It's certainly what happens in the travel industry for example.

As things currently stand the affiliate system is very harmful to the player. There is no check on who these guys can advertise and when the casino goes bust they just shrug their shoulders and say 'too bad'. Also they are raking off huge percentage payments which reduce the profits of casinos and make it less likely players will get paid in the first place. Sort of a double whammy and us players always seem the end up last in the queue.

Affiliates like to bamboozle you with stuff like 'I have 8000 webpages', or 'I meet regularly with the management' and 'we work hard on your behalf when there is a problem'. That all might be true but as consumers we would be far better off with just a handful of licensed operators with financial accountability.

A lot of affiliates protest about their integrity but that isn't really the point because it is the SYSTEM that is so deeply flawed. As it stands it will always attract those who just want to make a quick buck and I don't even blame them really. So under the current setup we will always have affiliates in it just for the money and situations like LOCK will happen again and again.

 

[Tengil]

Im pretty sure most of the Locks biggest affiliates are getting paid. LCB, AskGamblers, Gamesandcasino etc still have Lock listed.

+99% of the affiliates are not your (player) "friend". They do not care about you as long as they get paid. Plus affiliate marketing only seems to be about SEO these days and the so called content is plain rubbish in most cases.

 

[Nifty29]

What bothers me is that some CM members/affiliates are still spruiking them, oblivious to the myriad of issues that have been brought to everyones' attention here....and some of them must be getting paid or they wouldnt be listing or advertising them (unless they are all crazy and Im sure they are not)

I used to love Rival, because the games were different and the RTP was alright, the payouts were fast, and they looked after me with frequent decent offers and freebies. Some of the time I was ahead at various casinos which wasnt a problem - until the bonus banning program kicked in....and this is where I think the whole thing started to go pear-shaped. I mean, they lost a whole host of players because of this, and therefore had to get tighter with those that were left, which meant even more players left! The stupid part is that they will never get their money back from those what were ahead!! Geez, I would want to keep enticing them day in day out to keep depositing even with bonuses - contrary to what some may say, the player cannot win in the long run.

 

[Pinababy69]

Im pretty sure most of the Locks biggest affiliates are getting paid. LCB, AskGamblers, Gamesandcasino etc still have Lock listed.

What bothers me is that some CM members/affiliates are still spruiking them, oblivious to the myriad of issues that have been brought to everyones' attention here....and some of them must be getting paid or they wouldnt be listing or advertising them (unless they are all crazy and Im sure they are not)

Completely agree with the above. I spent about 1/2 hr this morning, checking out AGD, GPWA and CAP to see if there were ANY affiliate complaints regarding Lock and non payment. Couldn't find one single post. Lock Affiliates do not have a forum at CAP, but they do have one at AGD and at the GPWA. Last post in either forum was back in May of this year. And the posts at AGD only briefly touched on payment delays to players....nothing about affiliates.

In addition, I typed Lock Casino into Google, and as Spider said, what comes up is a list of top ranked websites all still happily promoting Lock. I also typed in Lock Casino problems/payment problems...the only thing that comes up are the threads on this site, and one issue that has been posted at Gambling Grumbles.

So that tells me that the majority of the bigger affiliates must be getting paid, and relatively on time. If they were not, there is no way they would still be happily promoting them. Were they NOT getting paid, there would be numerous posts and threads on affiliate forums, and warnings issued on some websites.

Two plus two still adds up to four, last time I checked.

 

[zanzibar]

And for an affiliate to keep sending players to Lock, even though they know that Lock is taking forever, if at all, to pay players, well, that's just wrong in my book. Of course affiliates have to make a living, but not by feeding players to the sharks.

I can only speak for myself here, but we have warned players to stop playing there.

Im pretty sure most of the Locks biggest affiliates are getting paid. LCB, AskGamblers, Gamesandcasino etc still have Lock listed.

I have talked to the owner of one of those sites about this. They have not been paid and are owed what most people would call a massive amount. I have no idea why they continue to promote them.

 

[zanzibar]

In addition, I typed Lock Casino into Google, and as Spider said, what comes up is a list of top ranked websites all still happily promoting Lock. I also typed in Lock Casino problems/payment problems...the only thing that comes up are the threads on this site, and one issue that has been posted at Gambling Grumbles.

Try a search using "slow pay", "delays", "payment delays", "rogue" etc. I found relevant info at several other sites in addition to AGD and CM. But you are correct that there are still a lot of affiliates who do not provide players with good information, and sadly many of them are highly ranked for the more general searches.

One reason I wanted to correct this "affiliates are being paid" misinformation is that it actually makes Lock appear more financially viable than it really is. Players think affiliates are getting paid so Lock must have a load of cash in reserve. The reality is the opposite. Knowing some of the sums they owe to affiliates - let alone the poor players - if they are still in business by the end of this year I will be at least mildly surprised. Maybe their poker room can dig them out of the hole. Its weird, I have searched and haven't found anyone really complaining about not being paid by Lock Poker. It doesn't make sense.

Anyway this is going round in circles and I have no wish to get into a fight with anyone. I think I have made my point and anyone who reads this take what they will from it. Peace and thanks for hearing me out without being too hard on me.

 

[Pinababy69]

Hoping to get some feedback directly from the source, I have posted a poll over at AGD in the Lock Affiliates forum. It would be great if any affiliates who read this here, would go and vote. Maybe this would put an end to some of the speculation and guesswork going on.

Linky to poll: (hope this is kosher Bryan?)

Link Removed (invalid URL)

 

[winbig]

Anyway this is going round in circles and I have no wish to get into a fight with anyone. I think I have made my point and anyone who reads this take what they will from it. Peace and thanks for hearing me out without being too hard on me.

Amen to that...life's too short to fight...especially on the Internets...


The old saying is still true to this day: "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one, and they all stink." (myself included)

lol

 

[Tengil]

Try a search using "slow pay", "delays", "payment delays", "rogue" etc. I found relevant info at several other sites in addition to AGD and CM. But you are correct that there are still a lot of affiliates who do not provide players with good information, and sadly many of them are highly ranked for the more general searches.

One reason I wanted to correct this "affiliates are being paid" misinformation is that it actually makes Lock appear more financially viable than it really is. Players think affiliates are getting paid so Lock must have a load of cash in reserve. The reality is the opposite. Knowing some of the sums they owe to affiliates - let alone the poor players - if they are still in business by the end of this year I will be at least mildly surprised. Maybe their poker room can dig them out of the hole. Its weird, I have searched and haven't found anyone really complaining about not being paid by Lock Poker. It doesn't make sense.

Anyway this is going round in circles and I have no wish to get into a fight with anyone. I think I have made my point and anyone who reads this take what they will from it. Peace and thanks for hearing me out without being too hard on me.

I read somewhere that Merge does all the processing for them. So poker funds are safe if thats true.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I can only speak for myself here, but we have warned players to stop playing there.



I have talked to the owner of one of those sites about this. They have not been paid and are owed what most people would call a massive amount. I have no idea why they continue to promote them.

Perhaps they are living on promises from Lock that things will work out in the end, the SAME promise that has been made repeatedly to players that "you will be paid in the end".

IF this site DOES pull Lock, and things DO work out OK in the end, they will take ANOTHER hit on top of having a delay to their current payments.

They may even feel that pulling Lock, or saying anything negative, could affect how their owed payments are queued & processed.

 

[zanzibar]

Spot on. Which is more or less why we have decided to write them off. The big sites are always going to get paid first before us, and if Lock can't pay players a couple of thousand here and there, they haven't got a hope in hell of paying this affiliate.

Fear of losing the debt could be a motivating factor for continued promotion, who knows.