Take Note and be warned your MAC is tracked

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

Or perhaps you're just an affiliate shill???

 

[maxd]

It's also business to troll through gambling forums for these exact discussions and single out members with questions or question the industry because after all it is open public debate and bad for business! People do get paid a wage for this you know.

You're so right! Not.
30 days vacation for being an arse.

 

[Borgie]

The ones who defends the fraud industry most of the time is the afiliated ones and we know why. They take side with the casino because of their own interests to make money out of other people's loses to feed up their own addiction.

I'd be very careful here - your host is an affiliate an honest and fair and above board one . Many of the members here are affiliates too . I suggest not insulting them .

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

The ones who defends the fraud industry most of the time is the afiliated ones and we know why. They take side with the casino because of their own interests to make money out of other people's loses to feed up their own addiction.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

You're so right! Not.
30 days vacation for being an arse.

Oh thank god. More importantly a vacation for us poor fools trying to argue with him.

Edit: I can just see all the other tin foil zealots taking this as PROOF that the industry is crooked and silencing the people brave enough to speak out!

 

[maxd]

The ones who defends the fraud industry most of the time is the afiliated ones and we know why. They take side with the casino because of their own interests to make money out of other people's loses to feed up their own addiction.

30 days vacation for being a scare-mongering troll. When you return feel free to present actual evidence, or STFU with bullshit accusations like the above.

 

[maxd]

Edit: I can just see all the other tin foil zealots taking this as PROOF that the industry is crooked and silencing the people brave enough to speak out!

If they can present any real proof let them, otherwise they can take their trolling BS elsewhere. And good riddance IMO.

 

[JGslots]

Mainly directed @trancemonkey here, but hey...

Are the random "must drop by midnight" progressives on the likes of Paddy Power 100% random?
I say this just because, if they're 100% random then they never EVER drop within the first 5 minutes of the day,
you'll notice they always drop in the later stage of the day.

Is there slight evidence of these being compensated here? This technically isn't the slot as such, its a progressive
that has been retrofitted to the slot.

If they've put something in the code/maths to randomly choose points later in the day, then surely that isn't random? lol

Rob

 

[goatwack]

Can't deduce if our Mac is being tracked after 12 pages. I think that's what the discussion started out as

Any un-banned members left to answer that?

 

[funnymunny]

Can't deduce if our Mac is being tracked after 12 pages. I think that's what the discussion started out as

Any un-banned members left to answer that?

Logging this information can be used for fraud / security checks. (E.g. Bonus offers which state '1 per household', or when tracking players creating multiple accounts, using this information when building a case against players using stolen credit cards or when players falsely try to charge-back, etc). They can also use IP address logging to ensure players aren't coming from a restricted country (not 100% accurate, but form part of a wider remit of checks).

There are so many reasons why this type of information could be logged & in my experience, none of it is used to track player wins. (As has been said before (and by many others too), games providers cannot see information relating to deposits, withdrawals, wins on other providers games, etc...).

 

[paul7388]

Can't deduce if our Mac is being tracked after 12 pages. I think that's what the discussion started out as

Any un-banned members left to answer that?

Think i am unbanned. But then again i am totally lost these days on here so can't really answer it lol

 

[mariafbb]

was a true delight reading this thread . thank you all

 

[rena35]

This has been one good read. I like to read the threads even though most of the casinos i can not play at. It makes me smile most days. I also love the humor in some of the posts. Sad to see people banned but good its not permanent

 

[mcgameboy]

Anyway, I'm off for a gamble now on my favourite slots:
Riggy Riches
Rig Kahuna
Rignarok
Finagler And The Swirly Spin
Jack Scammer

I would like to recommend adding these to your list mate....

Crook Of Ra
Crook Of Dead
Embezzlements: The Awakening
Pyramid Scheme: Quest For Immortality
Rigging Rhino
The Riggeder Reels Of Life
Ponzi's Quest
Ruby Swindlers
Jason And The Golden Fleeced

 

[goatwack]

Now Ponzi's Quest I would play

 

[mack341]

Finagler And The Swirly Spin is my current favourite, but mcgameboy's look tempting too

 

[mariafbb]

Mortal Affair is now on my radar

 

[Lemon]

Book of Rig
Fraud of the Ocean
Captain Benture
Genie Hackpots
Benturion

etc

 

[trancemonkey]

Mainly directed @trancemonkey here, but hey...

Are the random "must drop by midnight" progressives on the likes of Paddy Power 100% random?
I say this just because, if they're 100% random then they never EVER drop within the first 5 minutes of the day,
you'll notice they always drop in the later stage of the day.

Is there slight evidence of these being compensated here? This technically isn't the slot as such, its a progressive
that has been retrofitted to the slot.

If they've put something in the code/maths to randomly choose points later in the day, then surely that isn't random? lol

Rob

The chance to win likely grows as the time increases... so there is always a chance, but the odds of winning improve as the timer gets near to midnight, at which point the chance is 100%.

 

[trancemonkey]

Never said it was proof, your bending things again to tailor your posts into a debunk and trollish behavior. Your so transparent its unreal. And if you think that people will believe that online slots do not follow the same concept in development and thereafter your a fool.

They can believe what they want. You know, all along i have tried to present you with evidence and questions to make you consider what you are saying, and you just seem to have got more angry and ignorant to those that are trying to help give you honest advice and facts.

And finally the title of the thread is your MAC is being tracked. Your the one who's spiraled the whole debate towards the rigged theory with your back up claims of fair game and no conspiracy and a squeaky clean industry.

Nope - it was most certainly you that said they are "not random" - if you want to argue semantics over whether this means rigged or compensated, then fair enough. I don't

Seems to me you cant handle a debate when the majority are against you and turn to one subject and one alone then transfer the blame of the debate to one other that subject is a fictional subject irrelevant to the debate but a defense of a profession you used to work.

Majority? Hardly - and what one fictional subject did i keep turning to?

A few post up you admit you no longer develop the games. Just because you used to develop slots does know make you an expert of all knowledge that goes on I'm afraid. I can also recall only few months ago you tried to quash a post of mine one again about bonanza and you said you had inside knowledge they were not rigged because you develop them. Well you either do or you don't make your mind up Trancemonkey!

No, i said i don't make online games any more. I never said i didn't make games. And just because i've stopped making online games, i haven't left the industry. And our company still makes them, even if i specifically don't.

You're accusing me of all sorts of things i don't believe i've done, or said, and yet you've not once answered any of my questions. When you get back, please feel free to PM me if you want to continue this debate without the emotion and i will be more than happy to explain things in more detail.

 

[goatwack]

I think we need Roxanne Pallet to wade into this discussion. She seems reasonable enough

 

[trancemonkey]

I know he's banned, but for others sake...

And your missing my point or don't want to answer. I made a point about the extremely large pool of slotters at a given time of a large win for one player.

Not sure what you mean here, but how many people are playing a slot has no bearing on what outcomes the RNG generates for you.

That win would be pocket change of the profits made by the game and developers.

The developers don't pay the wins out... the casino does. The developer just gets a proportion of the amount of money the game makes.

The RNG is designed for the game right and randomly distributes each individual outcome of each independent spin (For everyone on that games server at the time). RIGHT!

If i understand you correctly, then not quite. It doesn't give the same result to everyone playing at that time. Every spin request is handled individually.

If its not I also ask why as then that is misleading publicity. If it were random I ask you why are stats showing that the slot is clawing back and leveling out the RTP on individual accounts and MAC addresses?

So when you have a big win of, say, 500x, that increases the RTP for you. But these are rare. So when you are playing a game normally (i.e no huge wins) the RTP has to drop. That's pure statistics. It can't stay at the level it is once you've won, because to do that you'd have to be consistently running over 100% RTP, which of course games don't. After any big win, or series of big wins, the RTP will of course naturally normalise during periods where you don't run over 100%. That isn't any magically compensation, it's just pure statisitics.

Surely random distribution would be merely that and over a lifetime one may never experience the True RTP. Let's not forget RTP is not the lifetime expected return to an individual player but the true RTP over all accounts for that game/slot. Randomness could result in one player constantly winning and cashing out and running at 100%+ RTP while the other could run constantly at near 30-40% that's randomness.

On this you are almost right - in theory, yes it's possible that someone only ever runs at over 100%, and someone else only ever runs at 40%. But just because it's theoretically possible doesn't mean it will happen. This is where a lot of people can't understand the way statistics work. A working example would be that on any given day, about 40%* of FOBT machines will lose money. But the rest will make money. And because there are so many of them, and they all target <100%, overall the estate makes money.

*I was told this number, but i'm not sure this is totally accurate - but it's a lot more than you think.

Just like the lottery some people are luckier than others. Stats on bonanza are not showing that for the majority. They show the slot acting in such a way that if not almost immediately levels the players returns to near RTP and as seen in statistical posts drop dramatically to such a low as if to say you have taken me for 4 k now I'm taking 5k back.

Yes - because 5k wins are rare, so to get another one is very unlikely - therefore of course the game will "return to it's RTP" naturally, and with no help from a secret button or code.

That my friend over such a large sample size of pool of players in the lottery is not random and some for tracking to be in place to compensate for this.

How large is the sample size?

Your asking for evidence you will only get statistical evidence as both you and I know that the only evidence would be a whistle blower. Who, one is bound to a non-disclosure agreement and secondly would be liable once he or she spills the beans for being party to corruption theft and fraud.

Now this is the last response your getting from my as I'm constantly repeating myself and your getting boring.

I've already answered this - the NDA argument is fundamentally untrue.

 

[dunover]

Christ! There's been more casualties on this thread than the Russian front.

 

[maxd]

Christ! There's been more casualties on this thread than the Russian front.

If that's a reference to the bans then I think you might want to check your Junior Historian books again. There were two bans, at least recently, and that's rather fewer than the 2,000,000+ that died or were killed during Operation Barbarossa (not including wounded, POWs, MIAs, etc).

 

[snorky510238]

There’s an awful lot of smoke around here if there is no fire.

 

[Steviedoo]

Well this took a turn....shocker.

I’m gonna go to the North Korea thread now for some civil discussions.

 

[trancemonkey]

There’s an awful lot of smoke around here if there is no fire.

Where's the smoke?

 

[dionysus]

And sometimes where there's smoke....there's merely smoke

 

[snorky510238]

Where's the smoke?

Your not really that blind are you.

 

[dionysus]

I think his eyes are pretty open tbh

 

[goatwack]

Is a spade a spade though?

Just inquisitive

 

[paul7388]

Is a spade a spade though?

Just inquisitive

Well it is certainly not a shovel tho many believe it is

 

[trancemonkey]

Your not really that blind are you.

I don't see any smoke. I see a lot of hot air... but no smoke. If there are a single shred of evidence there would be smoke...

 

[trancemonkey]

Well it is certainly not a shovel tho many believe it is

You should never clean windows with a shovel...

 

[Nicola]

As this thread has now wandered off topic (even more so than the start ) I'll add the following before it's locked.

I knew I had it somewhere, but found an Casino Rewards e-mail from 7 years ago confirming that the download (VIPER) software records your machines unique identifier (MAC) on installation.

Why?

- It helps us (...CR) identify players to prevent fraud. Multiple accounts on the same computer, bonus abuse etc.
- Providers the developer (Microgaming) with installation issues and errors

At that time (there was a post here too - possibly the Dark Knight progressive win??) that the VIPER software tracks your mouse movements as well as computer software/hardware information. AFAIK there was no real evidence of this just speculation.

This of course does NOT proove RTP is changed after a win, I'm providing this to show that MAC information has/is being shared with a third party.

 

[dunover]

As this thread has now wandered off topic (even more so than the start ) I'll add the following before it's locked.

I knew I had it somewhere, but found an Casino Rewards e-mail from 7 years ago confirming that the download (VIPER) software records your machines unique identifier (MAC) on installation.

Why?

- It helps us (...CR) identify players to prevent fraud. Multiple accounts on the same computer, bonus abuse etc.
- Providers the developer (Microgaming) with installation issues and errors

At that time (there was a post here too - possibly the Dark Knight progressive win??) that the VIPER software tracks your mouse movements as well as computer software/hardware information. AFAIK there was no real evidence of this just speculation.

This of course does NOT proove RTP is changed after a win, I'm providing this to show that MAC information has/is being shared with a third party.

Yeah, we've already established that your MAC is logged and tracked by casinos.
The argument is (or was) what the casinos allegedly do with this as regards your gameplay when the little man their end turns your RTP dial down after a big win or withdrawal.

My casinos have one like this:

Invalid URL

 

[goatwack]

Yeah, we've already established that your MAC is logged and tracked by casinos.
The argument is (or was) what the casinos allegedly do with this as regards your gameplay when the little man their end turns your RTP dial down after a big win or withdrawal.

My casinos have one like this:

Invalid URL

You've mixed the 'Dunover' and '120' up again

 

[aceking123]

The real question is, how the data us logged on a individual level & are the servers capable of adjusting & maintaining your own rtp% ?

Hence to why we see the same poor programming & why we can call out the games or know whats going to happen.

Almost as ive said many times the servers know who you are, how much you spent how much has been bonus if the mkneyvis linkex to a affilate account & even more.

 

[snorky510238]

I don't see any smoke. I see a lot of hot air... but no smoke. If there are a single shred of evidence there would be smoke...

You can be the stable boy to the best horse in the yard and make sure that horse is looked after and kept in the best condition possible but ultimately you won’t be the one who decides if it’s trying to win the 2.30 at Ascot.

 

[Fridayhigh]

Tracemonkey you are correct the game engines of leading software are not rigged and most PRNG are of a nature to be random to fit the purpose.

And I have heard you hammer that out for eternity and rightfully so as a coder.

But how often does anyone from the UKGC oversee the servers in Malta?

Without a par sheet, it would be difficult to determine if one's results after a huge win are within reason.

But as I stated in another post,, there are court cases going on in Malta now with regard to the servers.

The game engine can remain intact, as can the RNG, a temporary switch to a non tagged server, that's a whole new ballgame.

 

[Playford7]

Well very long time no speak...
I’m sure as usual a lot will take exception to my return, I promised and didn’t deliver, that I’ll not deny one iota...
it was due originally to a personal circumstance, that I did inform the boss about and I’m hopeful if any doubters appear he will put them straight...
I’ve always read the forum, it’s a fantastic place of different people and ideas, and total different mindsets.
Hence why it’s the only real go to place for decent opinion and discussion... not to mention advice...
I missed the place a lot, and certain members.
Whether I’m welcomed back or not it remains to be seen, but I’ve thrown my hat back in the ring and I’ll accept and take what the majority say, also the boss...
Anyways, probably wrong thread to say that (apologies) if needs be move my post admin.
Reading this thread after a long hiatus is rather saddening in many ways, as where certain political threads earlier in the year...
I’ve read peoples accounts banned and closed down, temporarily banned folks... but really a lot didn’t deserve that... it takes away the value of this forum... the only decent and credible well used place on on the net for fact and discussion..
I can barely remember trance, sure he’s a great stand up guy, no question... I’ve read lots and lots of his input and it’s factual and great to read, that said however he isn’t the casinomeister voice of all opinion, now I mean that with utter respect, he’s giving his point from what he knows and works in and has many years, he didn’t have to... sure the guy gains zero for being here...
that said, it can’t just be his opinion that holds weight, as seemed on this thread...
I’m no foil hatter, no believer of stats and facts, nor am I a believer the online casino world is all Wings, roses, cash and camels (goat)
To be banning people in the nature I’ve seen was never the casinomeister of old, it was hardly abusive nor threatening in anyway...
again, not a boss or admin, just a long time member and massive fan of casinomeister putting his opinion forward... missed the place , and goat... you ever sell them camels for us?....

 

[Fridayhigh]

Just as Poker Stars does not deal a true deck, meaning the PRNG still chooses from all cards even though some of those have already been dealt, therefore eliminating that card/number until a card that has not been dealt. The server issue in court is much the same. But Trace Monkey you are correct, but that is not where the problem lies.

 

[goatwack]

Well very long time no speak...
I’m sure as usual a lot will take exception to my return, I promised and didn’t deliver, that I’ll not deny one iota...
it was due originally to a personal circumstance, that I did inform the boss about and I’m hopeful if any doubters appear he will put them straight...
I’ve always read the forum, it’s a fantastic place of different people and ideas, and total different mindsets.
Hence why it’s the only real go to place for decent opinion and discussion... not to mention advice...
I missed the place a lot, and certain members.
Whether I’m welcomed back or not it remains to be seen, but I’ve thrown my hat back in the ring and I’ll accept and take what the majority say, also the boss...
Anyways, probably wrong thread to say that (apologies) if needs be move my post admin.
Reading this thread after a long hiatus is rather saddening in many ways, as where certain political threads earlier in the year...
I’ve read peoples accounts banned and closed down, temporarily banned folks... but really a lot didn’t deserve that... it takes away the value of this forum... the only decent and credible well used place on on the net for fact and discussion..
I can barely remember trance, sure he’s a great stand up guy, no question... I’ve read lots and lots of his input and it’s factual and great to read, that said however he isn’t the casinomeister voice of all opinion, now I mean that with utter respect, he’s giving his point from what he knows and works in and has many years, he didn’t have to... sure the guy gains zero for being here...
that said, it can’t just be his opinion that holds weight, as seemed on this thread...
I’m no foil hatter, no believer of stats and facts, nor am I a believer the online casino world is all Wings, roses, cash and camels (goat)
To be banning people in the nature I’ve seen was never the casinomeister of old, it was hardly abusive nor threatening in anyway...
again, not a boss or admin, just a long time member and massive fan of casinomeister putting his opinion forward... missed the place , and goat... you ever sell them camels for us?....

Wow yes, I remember that guy who thought we wanted to sell him camels in that thread

Afraid they're still stuck in my garage. They got the right hump

 

[Nicola]

Can your MAC address actually be read from playing a Flash or HTML5 game in a web browser?

I've tried a few well-known sites tonight that test the security (exploits, firewall etc) on your PC and none of them listed a MAC address after probing my ports.

Did read an interesting article on how the police / FBI catch cyber criminals and creepy old pervs, but that involves them installing software (without knowledge) or watching a video with hidden code which sends the MAC and other identifiable data to a gateway.

 

[Fridayhigh]

Can your MAC address actually be read from playing a Flash or HTML5 game in a web browser?

I've tried a few well-known sites tonight that test the security (exploits, firewall etc) on your PC and none of them listed a MAC address after probing my ports.

Did read an interesting article on how the police / FBI catch cyber criminals and creepy old pervs, but that involves them installing software (without knowledge) or watching a video with hidden code which sends the MAC and other identifiable data to a gateway.

Yes it can be read most definitely, most new devices have randomized MAC address, but they too can be targeted. That is why owning a smartphone is the stupidest thing in the world. All governments track your every move 24/7. . . . . as can your wife : )

 

[dunover]

Can your MAC address actually be read from playing a Flash or HTML5 game in a web browser?

I've tried a few well-known sites tonight that test the security (exploits, firewall etc) on your PC and none of them listed a MAC address after probing my ports.

Did read an interesting article on how the police / FBI catch cyber criminals and creepy old pervs, but that involves them installing software (without knowledge) or watching a video with hidden code which sends the MAC and other identifiable data to a gateway.

At least you had some fun last night, getting your ports probed. All I had was 3 hours of Excel sheets.

 

[Fridayhigh]

And knowing the MAC address, a particular result can be made to be discarded.

 

[Fridayhigh]

Yeah, we've already established that your MAC is logged and tracked by casinos.
The argument is (or was) what the casinos allegedly do with this as regards your gameplay when the little man their end turns your RTP dial down after a big win or withdrawal.

My casinos have one like this:

Invalid URL

The new Cisco Catalyst unveiled here first at Casino Meister, the ultimate MAC bridge!

 

[budskap]

Can your MAC address actually be read from playing a Flash or HTML5 game in a web browser?

No.

 

[SpinUk]

Tracemonkey you are correct the game engines of leading software are not rigged and most PRNG are of a nature to be random to fit the purpose.

And I have heard you hammer that out for eternity and rightfully so as a coder.

But how often does anyone from the UKGC oversee the servers in Malta?

Without a par sheet, it would be difficult to determine if one's results after a huge win are within reason.

But as I stated in another post,, there are court cases going on in Malta now with regard to the servers.

The game engine can remain intact, as can the RNG, a temporary switch to a non tagged server, that's a whole new ballgame.

Please elaborate on the bold text - as if it means what I think it means -i.e a rogue gimped server sending up a rogue game result back the the player, that is pretty damning.

Trance - would that be technically possible?