Take Note and be warned your MAC is tracked

[Nicola]

Who knew

Never had Nicola down as a flamer

I like healthy discussion

Every month I trawl through eCOGRA audits for the major casinos to see what true RTP values are for slot games, and month after month they are 1-2% either side of 96% so have full confidence everything is above board.

The best thing about CM is everyone throwing their opinions in on matters like these. After 8 or so years, RTP is something we will never agree on

 

[dogshead1]

Well a very interesting thread that brought all sorts of opinion from a collective group. Which is what I wanted to achieve. Furthermore very interesting how technicians and affiliates within the industry have gone right on the defensive

 

[deaconk78]

the toss of a coin is not random nor is it 50/50 if the coin is caught .

 

[deaconk78]

Well a very interesting thread that brought all sorts of opinion from a collective group. Which is what I wanted to achieve. Furthermore very interesting how technicians and affiliates within the industry have gone right on the defensive

when we have had the russian doping scandals , FIFA shambles , lance armstrong , lying politicians and jockeys that get banned for not riding their horse to the finish - History as taught us that we should learn from our mistakes - mistakenly believing that the world and everyone in it plays fair .

when there is money to be made then the temptation to screw for that bit extra will always be there - if everything was squeaky clean then casinos wouldn't worry about people cheating and manipulating the outcomes because that wouldn't be possible .

 

[dunover]

I like healthy discussion

Every month I trawl through eCOGRA audits for the major casinos to see what true RTP values are for slot games, and month after month they are 1-2% either side of 96% so have full confidence everything is above board.

The best thing about CM is everyone throwing their opinions in on matters like these. After 8 or so years, RTP is something we will never agree on

Well did you spot any evidence of your belief that 'gaming providers log IP's and reduce RTP for big winners' ??

 

[goatwack]

I was wary when I'd discovered slots play was always connected, because I'd played RNG-ey gambling software before in spades, offline.

I always figured why not let the player 'play' the software, and when it comes to withdrawing have them audit the gameplay via fraud-detection software

After all, why not. It's not like 99.8% of normal Joe Shmoes know how to reverse-engineer Starburst or something. RNG does not need online connectivity

 

[sledge13]

If you have been an online poker player you will know things can be totally rigged, the Full Tilt poker scandal and others are a prime example. Even top trusted players involved cheating for millions online.

An utter disgrace!

 

[Nicola]

Well did you spot any evidence of your belief that 'gaming providers log IP's and reduce RTP for big winners' ??

No, but on the other hand can you or anyone else here show a screenshot of real-play RTP over a period of time (3 months, 6 months, 12 months etc) showing continuous gains on a specific slot? In 8 years all that gets posted is a downhill slope after a mega win. Yourself said IIRC "my RTP is 8000% at Freaky Vegas" a few weeks ago, what is it now?

Also worth remembering that several CM accredited casinos have their own Random Number Generators on their own hosted servers. So playing Bonanza at Guts and Videoslots at the exact time would yeald a completley different outcome. So would playing two hours later.

This is why I love playing slots, it's all random and part of the fun is losing.

 

[dogshead1]

when we have had the russian doping scandals , FIFA shambles , lance armstrong , lying politicians and jockeys that get banned for not riding their horse to the finish - History as taught us that we should learn from our mistakes - mistakenly believing that the world and everyone in it plays fair .

when there is money to be made then the temptation to screw for that bit extra will always be there - if everything was squeaky clean then casinos wouldn't worry about people cheating and manipulating the outcomes because that wouldn't be possible .

Exactly!

Unfortunately for us gamblers our addiction is the hype and excitement the gamble offers. The slots offer fun for the duration of your initial deposit or timed session with all the hype and anticipation of a nice profitable cash out. It's within our nature to be ignorant to any form of scandal because we still like the medicine to our addiction. We all know we are losing or expect to lose when we gamble but still do it. So why on earth would people go trough great lengths to discredit anyone who asks questions of fair play or legitimacy. For one reason and one alone. They want that person to be quiet!

 

[pinnit2014]

If they’re tracking me they’re doing a pretty shit job at doing an RTP correction in some games... common Mr software, start the rigging process pronto, before iv to check my credit score to see what card I’m pre approved for

Edit: Gold plus five just spun in Hmmmm...

Edit 2 - 125X. Not good enough

 

[Jono777]

Can the gaming logs be trusted though?

On a serious note...

Only true way we'll get an accurate RTP (which most/more (never all) will take as gospel) is if we kept accurate logs of our play for 'x' years and 'y' (a lot) of us (players) combined the results and took the average.

I'd make a confident guess it would come out pretty close to the TRTP though

 

[trancemonkey]

Well a very interesting thread that brought all sorts of opinion from a collective group. Which is what I wanted to achieve. Furthermore very interesting how technicians and affiliates within the industry have gone right on the defensive

Ahh the "you defend yourself therefore you're lying" method of attack. Well there really is no answer for that... you win

 

[dogshead1]

Ahh the "you defend yourself therefore you're lying" method of attack. Well there really is no answer for that... you win

I've mentioned no names just opinion of fact and yet AGAIN you pop up LMAO

 

[sufferinsilence]

it's all random and part of the fun is losing.

I have to disagree very strongly on that last part

 

[goatwack]

I love losing, personally

Best part about it

 

[Jono777]

I love losing, personally

Best part about it

One of very few things in life I'm actually pretty good at these days

 

[geordiecolin]

I think that I can usually trust my instincts when deciding to ignore a thread. It seems I made a mistake with this one and now I have a lot of reading to do.
Sometime later

 

[trancemonkey]

I've mentioned no names just opinion of fact and yet AGAIN you pop up LMAO

I didnt mention names either. You made a general comment about technicians and affiliates. I made a general rebuttal

 

[dionysus]

I think that I can usually trust my instincts when deciding to ignore a thread. It seems I made a mistake with this one and now I have a lot of reading to do.
Sometime later

synopsis:
they do this
no they dont
yes they do
im offended
you offended me
don't be so defensive
now add 20 pages and youre caught up

 

[trancemonkey]

Exactly!

Unfortunately for us gamblers our addiction is the hype and excitement the gamble offers. The slots offer fun for the duration of your initial deposit or timed session with all the hype and anticipation of a nice profitable cash out. It's within our nature to be ignorant to any form of scandal because we still like the medicine to our addiction. We all know we are losing or expect to lose when we gamble but still do it. So why on earth would people go trough great lengths to discredit anyone who asks questions of fair play or legitimacy. For one reason and one alone. They want that person to be quiet!

I don't think I or anyone else has tried to discredit you for asking questions. That should be encouraged... Trust is earnt and there are rogues in this industry that blight those of us that aren't rogue and want to make a fair living making games and running casinos.

So you should always question things.

However you have made statements as if they are fact about games being rigged and not random... And on those points and other similar statements you have made I have every right to defend the industry as I know it to be.

 

[trancemonkey]

One of very few things in life I'm actually pretty good at these days

You and me both .. and yet apparently I could have rigged them in my favour

 

[dionysus]

You and me both .. and yet apparently I could have rigged them in my favour

goaty told me current parlance is compenrigged

 

[goatwack]

You and me both .. and yet apparently I could have rigged them in my favour

We know you don't rig the games!

The Rigged Department does that

 

[geordiecolin]

synopsis:
they do this
no they dont
yes they do
im offended
you offended me
don't be so defensive
now add 20 pages and youre caught up

Wow. I will send you a friend request.I need more people like you in my life mate

 

[funnymunny]

I know I'm probably going to regret getting involved in this thread, but there's two stand-out posts I'm afraid I cannot ignore...

(First a little back-story on my time in the industry - others have added their experience to their posts, so... (I also know some of you here know me, but others may not so this may be helpful to know this post isn't just random speculation(?))

I have spent >15years working for some of the biggest online and land-based gaming companies. Of specific relevance to the below, during my time in the industry I have launched and managed a poker network (that grew to the largest in the mid-noughties. (During this time I also played as a semi-professional, sponsored in both online and land based tournaments)). I have also spent 2-years working with one of the most respected Regulatory authorities.

From these experiences, I have seen all sides of poker - as a games provider, a player, and a Regulator.

... Pokerstars ... before they ran into millions of debt with the US government for tax infringements....

WRONG. PokerStars (like a few other sites that remained in the US post UIGEA) had their sites blocked for US players as a direct result of contravening the wire act. Long-story short, they paid all players as soon as they reached agreement with the US government about how the withdrawals would be processed. They also then purchased FullTilt and made good on all their player debts too.

...They advertise their shuffle is random tested and certified. What they don't and will never have tested it the outcomes and what happens after the shuffle. Where 2/3s of the deck are left open to manipulating by clever coding...

Wow, just wow... If you know anything about the PokerStars RNG, you'll know that manipulation is impossible. You really think someone can use their internet connection to manipulate the outcome of 2 separate physical activities that decide what happens?! A video giving full details of the PokerStars RNG and shuffle can be

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

If you know better, please please PLEASE come back here and provide evidence.

If you have been an online poker player you will know things can be totally rigged, the Full Tilt poker scandal and others are a prime example. Even top trusted players involved cheating for millions online.

An utter disgrace!

Full Tilt was all about financial mismanagement & had nothing whatsoever to do with rigging games. A very different issue to player tracking and the perception of adjusting RNG / RTP (which is how this thread started).

Could just be me, but I think mixing the two different subjects could add further confusion to the discussion(?).