Take Note and be warned your MAC is tracked

[dunover]

I have a wall shaped flat area on my head now... as flat as the earth....


I'll get my coat...

 

[mack341]

So how does this sort of theory explain away the run I had at 3Dice a few weeks ago, where I turned a £100 deposit into a £950 withdrawal doing nothing but low-rolling over the course of four subsequent evenings? (Videos are on my channel.)

I've carried on playing at 3Dice since and my RTP has remained solid, no sense of the games 'clawing it back' at all.

Now of course 3Dice are their own self-contained operation and they write their own software, so it's not in their interest to fleece their playerbase because they're not competing with other software providers. (I did in fact cover this in the videos.)

I think the changes people are describing are down to the crazy high variance games that are out there now, the days of players being 'locked in' to a single provider as was quite common (32Red = MG, for example) are long gone, and you've got god knows how many providers duking it out at places like VS and Trada and Rizk and so on.

Nonsense slots like Bonanza with their ridiculous bonus round frequency and promises of UNLIMITED MULTIPLIERS and wins of 10,000x stake and more have skewed everything into the realms of the daft, and IMO too many folks have forgotten what it's like to play sensibly designed slots at reasonable stakes relative to their bankroll.

3Dice don't have a 'Bonanza Style' slot on their books because it wouldn't make sense for them to do so, it'd alienate their playerbase and send them running for the hills.

Chopley your session at 3dice reminded me of how slots played a few years back, where a deposit of £100 for a low roller would be a sufficient sum to provide several hours play over quite a few nights, and there would be ebb and flow, I remember playing wms spartacus for about 6 hours with only a £10 deposit in the kitty.

Now its much more like the outcomes you had in the genie jackpots megaways game, that's not to say it wasn't randomly determined but it didn't look like you had much of a fair run for £100. I know they were feature buys but its still money in and money out, if the £100 was put on a graph, there would have been a small peak at the beginning and then big drops most of the way down.

Regarding the 3dice games, what is the maximum stake you can choose to play the games at?

 

[snorky510238]

If you had a compensated slot that was set at 95% payout and a so called “random” slot at 95% trtp what major differences am I likely to see? The way I am viewing it is if it was random what’s the point when they play just the same as compensated.

 

[dunover]

If you had a compensated slot that was set at 95% payout and a so called “random” slot at 95% trtp what major differences am I likely to see? The way I am viewing it is if it was random what’s the point when they play just the same as compensated.

Basically if compensated you would be guaranteed a period of 'adjustment' over a short period of time, i.e. you would be guaranteed to win over the next 100 spins if you had performed under the 'trigger' RTP (say 70%) for the previous 500 spins, and the RTP of 95% is therefore needed to be reached over a very small amount of spins - in other words the previous play CAN and WILL affect future play. The game has a memory.

Random 95% is exactly that, each spin is independent of the last, BUT over time (and this can be a very long time if the game is complex or very volatile) you would be near the RTP - however, if you are consistently performing under par at say 80% for 100k spins you cannot expect with certainty to see a RTP spike if say the TRTP is achieved over say 100m spins.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Chopley your session at 3dice reminded me of how slots played a few years back, where a deposit of £100 for a low roller would be a sufficient sum to provide several hours play over quite a few nights, and there would be ebb and flow,

Exactly this!

I used to deposit £100-£200 and I'd expect to get a weekend out of that, a Friday and Saturday evening, maybe some cheeky afternoon Sunday slotting and then Sunday evening as well - and still hope to have a balance remaining or even be able to make a nice cashout at the end of it all. (Obviously it was a bust out sometimes, but that wasn't expected behaviour.)

That still happens at 3Dice because their slots haven't changed over the years, but the rest of the market has shifted and money-munching monsters are now increasingly the norm, who'd fancy getting a weekend's entertainment out of BTG slots with a £150 deposit on low-rolling stakes?......

WMS had it right back in the Jackpot Party days, in terms of variance and pay distribution (the original Bruce Lee being one of the best slots ever made IMO), and I'd peg 3Dice at very similar to WMS' model from that time, which is probably why I still enjoy 3Dice's slots now.

Doubtless there are many other slots out there that would fit into a similar sort of pay/variance profile, but how the hell are you supposed to fish them out from the 6,000,000 slots (give or take ) that sites such as VS have on their books?

 

[dogshead1]

I know I'm probably going to regret getting involved in this thread, but there's two stand-out posts I'm afraid I cannot ignore...

(First a little back-story on my time in the industry - others have added their experience to their posts, so... (I also know some of you here know me, but others may not so this may be helpful to know this post isn't just random speculation(?))

I have spent >15years working for some of the biggest online and land-based gaming companies. Of specific relevance to the below, during my time in the industry I have launched and managed a poker network (that grew to the largest in the mid-noughties. (During this time I also played as a semi-professional, sponsored in both online and land based tournaments)). I have also spent 2-years working with one of the most respected Regulatory authorities.

From these experiences, I have seen all sides of poker - as a games provider, a player, and a Regulator.


WRONG. PokerStars (like a few other sites that remained in the US post UIGEA) had their sites blocked for US players as a direct result of contravening the wire act. Long-story short, they paid all players as soon as they reached agreement with the US government about how the withdrawals would be processed. They also then purchased FullTilt and made good on all their player debts too.



Wow, just wow... If you know anything about the PokerStars RNG, you'll know that manipulation is impossible. You really think someone can use their internet connection to manipulate the outcome of 2 separate physical activities that decide what happens?! A video giving full details of the PokerStars RNG and shuffle can be

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.


If you know better, please please PLEASE come back here and provide evidence.


Full Tilt was all about financial mismanagement & had nothing whatsoever to do with rigging games. A very different issue to player tracking and the perception of adjusting RNG / RTP (which is how this thread started).

Could just be me, but I think mixing the two different subjects could add further confusion to the discussion(?).

Yes try to blur the lines to people who are unwise. The contravention of the wire act is what got Pokerstars into debt. The contravention of the wire act itself was them trying to throw their weight around and being greedy ignoring US gambling and banking/business laws and operating offshore transactions basically sticking the middle finger up to the US. Well it bit them in the ass didn't it and them got fined and had their domains seized and after investigation were ordered to pay I believe around $90m in tax as part of the fraud they committed.

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This is just the Civil charges brought to them
Oh and ..........
Never did say someone using their internet connection I said Pokerstars themselves. The shuffle is tested and regulated and YES its very possible to write a code into the RNG after the flop to manipulate out comes of the hand. They admitted this in one specific game. I will have to dig out the article or video I believe it was from the own staff. Furthermore the RNG is not tested or Certified on the shuffle.

 

[dogshead1]

Im unsure why people are kicking off with nut nut & dogshead. They make valid points.

Firstly im a long time member ive pretty much seen & watched it all in concerns of my own play over the years & still stand by & shall always stand by online games are not random. Every players ip is tracked period along with every bet placed this would clearly done for legal reasons.

Maybe many of you cant see the trees via the woods, far to many predictable gaming patterns & poor programming to shown otherwise, this seems across the board, although this is down to individual groups of cssinos. Everymatrix,videoslots etc etc

New casinos seem to play far better than places played for years if you stay to long after a good run, your soon see the rtp% going the otherway, yes its nautral to go down but it keeps going down until its had the monies back, then picks up again.

As i dont play so often any longer , my thoughts are that each gaming provider has all you data linked, which would be done via ip adress.

I also think a few members are bang on with the findings.

They are kicking off because of exactly that. I've made valid points and they don't like people speaking out. Its that's the case why do we have this forum???? Just to bloat the industry and continue to be sheep?

 

[trancemonkey]

Exactly this!

I used to deposit £100-£200 and I'd expect to get a weekend out of that, a Friday and Saturday evening, maybe some cheeky afternoon Sunday slotting and then Sunday evening as well - and still hope to have a balance remaining or even be able to make a nice cashout at the end of it all. (Obviously it was a bust out sometimes, but that wasn't expected behaviour.)

That still happens at 3Dice because their slots haven't changed over the years, but the rest of the market has shifted and money-munching monsters are now increasingly the norm, who'd fancy getting a weekend's entertainment out of BTG slots with a £150 deposit on low-rolling stakes?......

WMS had it right back in the Jackpot Party days, in terms of variance and pay distribution (the original Bruce Lee being one of the best slots ever made IMO), and I'd peg 3Dice at very similar to WMS' model from that time, which is probably why I still enjoy 3Dice's slots now.

Doubtless there are many other slots out there that would fit into a similar sort of pay/variance profile, but how the hell are you supposed to fish them out from the 6,000,000 slots (give or take ) that sites such as VS have on their books?

I seriously miss JackpotParty - i loved that website...

 

[videoslotheaven]

If i rewind time 3 years back i had the run of my lifetime. I had several huge wins. 10k euros. 15k euros. And so on.

My usual play style is deposit 100-200 and bet 1. If i win i might go to 2-4 euro bets. But after that year that i had these insane wins back to back everything has gone to shit.

Im not even exagerating if i say i lost about 80 deposits straight before i had a cashout after that last win. Im about 1/50 deposits is a withdrawal ratio since then. In fact it has gotten so bad im concidering throwing in the towel.

I have done(have gotten stats from some casinos) about 700 000 spins on book og dead and my biggest win is 750x bet. About 500k spins on cazino zeppelin and never had a wildline. The last two years i probably lost about 50 000 euros playing 1 stake on average. Then you add up all the match bonuses and comps. And we are talking over a million-2 million spins and never didd i get any win above 750x bet in that time.

Funny thing before that i had multiple huge wins on different slots.

Takeaway is:

1. Slots are not the same at all. Lose faster now than before and big wins are much less common.

2. Providers and casinos have allot to gain from adjusting rtp for players individually witch im sure they do. If they have a person that is a problem gambler and chases losses. Then let that person lose all the time. A big time spender that never or rarly cashes out wins? Let him win now and then. And so on. See streamers i play probably the same amount of play as some of those streamers and i have insane losses. And magicly every streamer on twitch is winning every week... go figure

 

[dogshead1]

Oh and I did not mention having my account closed at Slotsmillion after requesting my lifetime play history/stats on Bonanza. They told me they would ask the developer. Never did get my life time history/stats juts a ban LOL. A ban for for legal right to ask!!!

 

[trancemonkey]

They are kicking off because of exactly that. I've made valid points and they don't like people speaking out. Its that's the case why do we have this forum???? Just to bloat the industry and continue to be sheep?

You're at it again - can't accept people with more knowledge than you might be able to challenge your inaccurate statements, so just say "we're kicking off" as if that somehow invalidates our points. If you can't have a debate, why be on this forum? As i said, you've posted no hard evidence - and if you had this overwhelming evidence, why do nothing with it other than post bits of it in threads on here? Why not go to the press, or eCogra, or whatever.

I don't accept your statements because they are incorrect. I know they are incorrect. I'm not GUESSING they are incorrect. @funnymunny also knows they are incorrect. That's why we disagree with you.

So dogshead1, some things for you to consider - and anyone else who thinks everything is rigged.

1. Can you prove beyond doubt using statistical evidence that games are rigged / compensated?
2. If companies can use your account ID (given you're logged in) why would they NEED to use your IP address for anything other than AML and some other security checks (for example).
3. Given that casinos can make more money by running lower RTP versions of the games, why do they need to "rig" games when they already have the edge? They already have the ability to increase that edge should they so choose.
4. Nearly all games providers are in competition with each other - so why would they then work together on complex and illegal software?
5. If i was going to compensate a game (and i've done compensated Cat C, B4 and some old B3 games) why would we compensate in such a way to make it OBVIOUS that it's ripping your arms off. The whole point of compensation is control - so if we CAN control the games, why make it so obvious and make them play so badly. Pissing players off does nothing other than lose customers, so your reasoning makes no sense.
6. Why has not one single pissed off disgruntled or sacked employee come out and spilled the beans. Ever.
7. Have you heard of Apophenia - it refers to a universal human tendency to seek patterns in random information, such as gambling. It's also called the "Gambler's Fallacy" -

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- this describes exactly the feeling that you (and most of us on here) have when gambling. Except only a few make the jump to rigged. And yes this is a provable phenomenon. The POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS section might give you some insight, but all of it is worth a read - here's an excerpt:
The gambler's fallacy is a deep-seated cognitive bias and can be very hard to overcome. Educating individuals about the nature of randomness has not always proven effective in reducing or eliminating any manifestation of the fallacy. Participants in a study by Beach and Swensson in 1967 were shown a shuffled deck of index cards with shapes on them, and were instructed to guess which shape would come next in a sequence. The experimental group of participants was informed about the nature and existence of the gambler's fallacy, and were explicitly instructed not to rely on run dependency to make their guesses. The control group was not given this information. The response styles of the two groups were similar, indicating that the experimental group still based their choices on the length of the run sequence. This led to the conclusion that instructing individuals about randomness is not sufficient in lessening the gambler's fallacy
8. If you are still adamant we are a lying bunch of crooks, i'm a liar and just here to further the misdirection, then honestly - why play at all?

Yours
TM

 

[Jono777]

^^SOLD^^ as far as I'm concerned

I shall now genuinely try to make no more silly or foil hat posts, maybe the odd whinge when a losing streak kicks in but that's about all.

In closing Trance, could you kindly let me know when my next 5 scatters on DoA is due to hit so I can increase the bet the spin before please?

 

[trancemonkey]

^^SOLD^^ as far as I'm concerned

I shall now genuinely try to make no more silly or foil hat posts, maybe the odd whinge when a losing streak kicks in but that's about all.

In closing Trance, could you kindly let me know when my next 5 scatters on DoA is due to hit so I can increase the bet the spin before please?

Let me just find my big red button....

 

[trancemonkey]

^^SOLD^^ as far as I'm concerned

I shall now genuinely try to make no more silly or foil hat posts, maybe the odd whinge when a losing streak kicks in but that's about all.

In closing Trance, could you kindly let me know when my next 5 scatters on DoA is due to hit so I can increase the bet the spin before please?

We're all allowed to be pissed off and have a good whinge btw...

 

[aceking123]

Trance always on the defence, just because you build a game doesnt make you correct about other software's, neither does it about what happens when the games leave your domain to go live online, im still awaiting for you to produce a online slot.

Yes i know a couple from inspired but nothing since youve left.

Hes a question for you to answer in a public forum.

What info is sent from my pc to your in house server??? & can you track my ip back to me from your server only ????

How many casinos do you have linked to your in house servers ? Is each casino classed as per one point of plug??? Or on a collective from.server points???

Ps not being rude so dont take it wrong way

 

[trancemonkey]

Trance always on the defence, just because you build a game doesnt make you correct about other software's, neither does it about what happens when the games leave your domain to go live online, im still awaiting for you to produce a online slot.

Yes i know a couple from inspired but nothing since youve left.

Hes a question for you to answer in a public forum.

What info is sent from my pc to your in house server??? & can you track my ip back to me from your server only ????

How many casinos do you have linked to your in house servers ? Is each casino classed as per one point of plug??? Or on a collective from.server points???

Ps not being rude so dont take it wrong way

Congratulations on ignoring the entire post i just made And "always on the defence"? You're as bad as dogshead1 - because i don't let people get away with making unprovable statements, this somehow means what... i'm lying?! Come on...

As i've repeatedly said, i don't make online slots any more - and haven't for a few years... but i also have a lot of friends and colleagues that do. And i don't think they are liars either.
Also, you do realise that games are held on servers right? All SG's games live on SG servers... do you think the casinos get the code and start hacking it?
Ask @Simmo! what happens to games...

And as for what info gets sent to games servers... it differs a lot, but it's very easy to sniff out - get a packet sniffer and have a look

 

[Steviedoo]

Just a thought. In the long chain of command in making slots and providing casinos with slots....there are exactly how many people involved in the process @trancemonkey ?

What most of you are saying is that in this long list of makers they are all in cahoots?

But let’s go with what most are saying

So,let’s say trancemonkey is right, he delivers the slot, approved and all to the casinos...he would not know what happens after he makes the slots and the casino put it on their casinos.

There’s that.
Then He might not know of the dept in his game provider company that takes care of the riggedness part of what most of you are saying.

But Consider this: they deliver the slot to the casino and we now have a slot by the said provider ukgc approved etc...what most are claiming in this thread is that after delivery, the game provider tracks your bets, and when you win big they get some sort of signal that you’ve won big and then turn off the winnings for a while across all casinos and platforms?

So if we go with this scenario we would need a company who does this? Or a person. A group of persons under the guise of let’s say marketing or a marketing company or like Cambridge analytica....a data company...or a dept within the games provider.

What you are talking about can’t be done solo. Somebody along the chain of command and in the industry has had to have developed the kind of spyware and tracking software you are talking about.

somewhere in the industry, someone would have talked about it, whether it was a former employee who left, employees/people who meet at all the conferences....somewhere, somehow, someone would be talking about it. But yet....correct me if I’m wrong. No one is talking about it. It’s not a rumour. Not a whiff of it anywhere. Cuz the people who developed this software wouldn’t they want to sell it to everyone out there? Brag about it? And If I was a games provider I would like to know what my competition is doing that casinos are flocking to them. Which brings me to my next point wouldn’t this be a selling point to the casinos ...come with us cuz we have this great way to limit your losses...

And one person cannot run the entire scam.

Not one person anywhere at all these conferences around the world has probably ever mentioned these tracking spywares that can turn off the ring after a big win. It’s human nature for people to talk, to brag and to share. And yet not one person. The biggest secrets are never secrets,...there are always whispers, and innuendo etc....

Does anyone see the absurdity in all this...

My point is that in all of this... not one person has yet to come forward. No whistleblower. The governing bodies have not discovered it yet. I mean, Cambridge analytica got caught after their third, 5th year in business? The online slots have been around for 20 years, and I would say exploded in the last five....in all these years besides the dodgy casinos and fraudulent casino... not one game provider has been caught doing what you most of you are saying.

 

[dionysus]

9. Why be a member of an AFFILIATE SITE? I mean, if all this dodginess is going on at accredited casinos, Bryan and his team must be either A: complicit or B: woefully ignorant
...neither of which I belive he is/they are.

I'll never grasp it. Never. I get questioning. But banging the drum every week or so, then GOING BACK and playing HAS to be some sort of psychosis. Surely, say, knitting has to be less grief.

 

[dogshead1]

You're at it again - can't accept people with more knowledge than you might be able to challenge your inaccurate statements, so just say "we're kicking off" as if that somehow invalidates our points. If you can't have a debate, why be on this forum? As i said, you've posted no hard evidence - and if you had this overwhelming evidence, why do nothing with it other than post bits of it in threads on here? Why not go to the press, or eCogra, or whatever.

I don't accept your statements because they are incorrect. I know they are incorrect. I'm not GUESSING they are incorrect. @funnymunny also knows they are incorrect. That's why we disagree with you.

So dogshead1, some things for you to consider - and anyone else who thinks everything is rigged.

1. Can you prove beyond doubt using statistical evidence that games are rigged / compensated?
2. If companies can use your account ID (given you're logged in) why would they NEED to use your IP address for anything other than AML and some other security checks (for example).
3. Given that casinos can make more money by running lower RTP versions of the games, why do they need to "rig" games when they already have the edge? They already have the ability to increase that edge should they so choose.
4. Nearly all games providers are in competition with each other - so why would they then work together on complex and illegal software?
5. If i was going to compensate a game (and i've done compensated Cat C, B4 and some old B3 games) why would we compensate in such a way to make it OBVIOUS that it's ripping your arms off. The whole point of compensation is control - so if we CAN control the games, why make it so obvious and make them play so badly. Pissing players off does nothing other than lose customers, so your reasoning makes no sense.
6. Why has not one single pissed off disgruntled or sacked employee come out and spilled the beans. Ever.
7. Have you heard of Apophenia - it refers to a universal human tendency to seek patterns in random information, such as gambling. It's also called the "Gambler's Fallacy" -

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- this describes exactly the feeling that you (and most of us on here) have when gambling. Except only a few make the jump to rigged. And yes this is a provable phenomenon. Please check out the section on the coin toss - it will help explain what you are seeing.
8. If you are still adamant we are a lying bunch of crooks, i'm a liar and just here to further the misdirection, then honestly - why play at all?

Yours
TM

Show me in this thread load mouth where I said they are rigged? Yes I mention your MAC is tracked and stats prove a huge drop in RTP after big wins and cash outs with BTG. This could be expected on a 1-1 session such as my MAC on One server, but there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands on that server at the same time. Let's for example say the slots drops me a 2k profitable hit. That 2k is a very small number to the extremely large field losing spins world wide on that 1 server in that given second. Probably does not even tickle the profits. These slots are dropping big wins and dropping the RTP massively to compensate to each induvidual account and MAC address and these stats have been and will continue to be posted by myself and others. That my friend is not random. Of all the hundreds of thousands of players accounts to randomly claw the money back its so happens to be the account or MAC of the big winner. Coincedence my arse!!! T

The thread has developed into theories and experiences of everyone else. As for Funnymunny attempting to discredit my factual post about Pokerstars don't make me laugh. I've posted the link to Forbes stating the $731 Million they were ordered to pay to the US government in civil charges. I will happily go out of my way to did out where the tax infringement came from. An he has not provided any factual evidence that they do not rig the Deck after the flop. Nor have you come up with factual evidence that slots aren't coded in such a way that the RTP is actually determined by individual players and not the entire online pool. Furthermore just so happens funnymunnys account states his location to be Isle of Man a tax haven for any corrupt corporate business or gambling institution as the UK recognizes it as foreign sovereignty therefore legally the UK would find it extremely hard to take these corrupt companies on. Lets not forget all the illegal offshore banking and money laundering that such circumstance creates opportunity. Smartlive for one and yes I'd happily email all the documentation, including accounting and ghost companies they used over a 7 year period to create a false debt and launder millions of money from they players that deposited at their casino. Also the illegal promotion they set up the day the knew they were to be issued Remote Gaming Licencing ban from the UKGC just to steal that little bit more from unsuspecting players.

The reason like most here where given this knowledge that I still Gamble is because its an addiction like, drugs and alcohol. These games are our medicine that keep us entertained and sound. Win or lose we just like the emotional highs and lows. Though we have a right to speak out and question anything we think to be abnormal. As you have a right to defend your software or whatever it is you do within the industry but you don't know everything I can assure you. I work in a profession where I'm bound to secrets and not even them secrets were the full secrets. So please to try to undermine my friend!

 

[dionysus]

I still Gamble is because its an addiction like, drugs and alcohol. !

Sooo, should you be moved to the Quit Gambling section?
See, I play because I find it fun.

 

[trancemonkey]

Show me in this thread load mouth where I said they are rigged? Yes I mention your MAC is tracked and stats prove a huge drop in RTP after big wins and cash outs with BTG. This could be expected on a 1-1 session such as my MAC on One server, but there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands on that server at the same time. Let's for example say the slots drops me a 2k profitable hit. That 2k is a very small number to the extremely large field losing spins world wide on that 1 server in that given second. Probably does not even tickle the profits. These slots are dropping big wins and dropping the RTP massively to compensate to each induvidual account and MAC address and these stats have been and will continue to be posted by myself and others. That my friend is not random. Of all the hundreds of thousands of players accounts to randomly claw the money back its so happens to be the account or MAC of the big winner. Coincedence my arse!!! T

The thread has developed into theories and experiences of everyone else. As for Funnymunny attempting to discredit my factual post about Pokerstars don't make me laugh. I've posted the link to Forbes stating the $731 Million they were ordered to pay to the US government in civil charges. I will happily go out of my way to did out where the tax infringement came from. An he has not provided any factual evidence that they do not rig the Deck after the flop. Nor have you come up with factual evidence that slots aren't coded in such a way that the RTP is actually determined by individual players and not the entire online pool. Furthermore just so happens funnymunnys account states his location to be Isle of Man a tax haven for any corrupt corporate business or gambling institution as the UK recognizes it as foreign sovereignty therefore legally the UK would find it extremely hard to take these corrupt companies on. Lets not forget all the illegal offshore banking and money laundering that such circumstance creates opportunity. Smartlive for one and yes I'd happily email all the documentation, including accounting and ghost companies they used over a 7 year period to create a false debt and launder millions of money from they players that deposited at their casino. Also the illegal promotion they set up the day the knew they were to be issued Remote Gaming Licencing ban from the UKGC just to steal that little bit more from unsuspecting players.

The reason like most here where given this knowledge that I still Gamble is because its an addiction like, drugs and alcohol. These games are our medicine that keep us entertained and sound. Win or lose we don'e we like the emotional highs and lows. Though we have a right to speak out and question anything we think to be abnormal. As you have a right to defend your software or whatever it is you do within the industry but you don't know everything I can assure you. I work in a profession where I'm bound to secrets and not even them secrets were the full secrets. So please to try to undermine my friend!

So you've lowered to personal insults now...

Ok... So in this quoted post here you claim you've never said they are rigged. And the you say, and I quote "That my friend is not random". So if they aren't random... What are they.

And you still clearly haven't answered one single question...

The burden of proof is also on you... You claim "not random" but all you're saying is "After a big win the RTP drops..." Well of course it drops. That's obvious.

If you win £1000 and the RTP goes up to 200%, it is clearly going to drop back towards its target unless you have some more huge wins. I'm not even sure what you think you're proving... But you're trying yourself in knots saying two different things in one post, starting to throw insults around, and not answering any points I've made directly.

So yes... This thread has descended in to a farce.

 

[trancemonkey]

Just a thought. In the long chain of command in making slots and providing casinos with slots....there are exactly how many people involved in the process @trancemonkey ?

What most of you are saying is that in this long list of makers they are all in cahoots?

But let’s go with what most are saying

So,let’s say trancemonkey is right, he delivers the slot, approved and all to the casinos...he would not know what happens after he makes the slots and the casino put it on their casinos.

There’s that.
Then He might not know of the dept in his game provider company that takes care of the riggedness part of what most of you are saying.

But Consider this: they deliver the slot to the casino and we now have a slot by the said provider ukgc approved etc...what most are claiming in this thread is that after delivery, the game provider tracks your bets, and when you win big they get some sort of signal that you’ve won big and then turn off the winnings for a while across all casinos and platforms?

So if we go with this scenario we would need a company who does this? Or a person. A group of persons under the guise of let’s say marketing or a marketing company or like Cambridge analytica....a data company...or a dept within the games provider.

What you are talking about can’t be done solo. Somebody along the chain of command and in the industry has had to have developed the kind of spyware and tracking software you are talking about.

somewhere in the industry, someone would have talked about it, whether it was a former employee who left, employees/people who meet at all the conferences....somewhere, somehow, someone would be talking about it. But yet....correct me if I’m wrong. No one is talking about it. It’s not a rumour. Not a whiff of it anywhere. Cuz the people who developed this software wouldn’t they want to sell it to everyone out there? Brag about it? And If I was a games provider I would like to know what my competition is doing that casinos are flocking to them. Which brings me to my next point wouldn’t this be a selling point to the casinos ...come with us cuz we have this great way to limit your losses...

And one person cannot run the entire scam.

Not one person anywhere at all these conferences around the world has probably ever mentioned these tracking spywares that can turn off the ring after a big win. It’s human nature for people to talk, to brag and to share. And yet not one person. The biggest secrets are never secrets,...there are always whispers, and innuendo etc....

Does anyone see the absurdity in all this...

My point is that in all of this... not one person has yet to come forward. No whistleblower. The governing bodies have not discovered it yet. I mean, Cambridge analytica got caught after their third, 5th year in business? The online slots have been around for 20 years, and I would say exploded in the last five....in all these years besides the dodgy casinos and fraudulent casino... not one game provider has been caught doing what you most of you are saying.

Depends on the size of the company... There are some very small companies making games, but these then have to go though test labs, integration partners, etc... So to claim everyone is at it or there are some clandestine bodies doing it without many people knowing is pure lunacy.

 

[dogshead1]

Sooo, should you be moved to the Quit Gambling section?
See, I play because I find it fun.

Just Wow!!!

 

[trancemonkey]

Though we have a right to speak out and question anything we think to be abnormal. As you have a right to defend your software or whatever it is you do within the industry but you don't know everything I can assure you. I work in a profession where I'm bound to secrets and not even them secrets were the full secrets. So please to try to undermine my friend!

Absolutely you should question things... We agree on this. I said it in an earlier post.

And yes I will defend the parts of the industry that are doing their best to be above board and fair.

And no I don't know everything.

But I know they aren't "not random"

 

[dionysus]

Just Wow!!!

*shrugs
you likened it (your playing) to a drug and alcohol addicition...I mean, thoise are your words, not mine. Were you expecting a different sort of response?
I mean, that IS why there's a quit gambling section here.