Poll Source of Wealth poll: How do the SOW requirements affect you? 2022

[satchnz]

…I spent 3.33...

What did you buy? That’s an odd total.

 

[justdoit]

As a small stakes player I technically shouldn’t get caught up in SOW. But if I was to be asked, no casino will be getting my private financial information. I’d probably quit online slots altogether and go outside and play instead…

I guess for the casinos concerned it is better to turn away customers than get massive fines imposed by the UKGC. It’s a lose/lose situation for casinos so I’m not sure why they aren’t showing more resistance. Oh yes, the massive fine. What a fucked up situation…

well most of casinos they hitting only small stake players, I got hit with sow spending 20 quit

 

[justdoit]

That's something I'd forgot to add, it's very strange that I get many messages and emails each day from sites I've never even heard of, clearly at my phone number and email has been sold by at keast one site to other vendors. God knows what other info they've sold.

You're right the identity part is most valuable to buyers, but heck could I trust them not to sell details of my personal finances and aspects of spending in everyday life.

I've seen many soft credit checks on my credit it file which I'm happy with, this is probably the best way to go rather than asking to see extremely personal information, which most people will not comply with.

is big problem with casinos they avoid closing account when you ask for, they make you account as self excluded so they can still use your data

 

[satchnz]

well most of casinos they hitting only small stake players, I got hit with sow spending 20 quit

Yeah I remember you saying. That is just abuse of the regulations.

 

[Waxman]

Was a case over at other site . Customer sent 5$ to his brother a few times (lunch money). Casino caught this. Since brother had made account at same casino and played only the welcome bonus. They pulled the sending other players funds clause and didn't pay winnings. They closed account and refunded deposit .

Disgusting behavior lately

 

[pinnit2014]

As far as I am concerned if they accept the bet, they should pay out. If they want, depending on their risk appetite, to do x,y,z checks, they should do them before hand - anything then is on them.

Worst casinos for SOW's are still Casumo, L&L Group, Viral Interactive Group - these guys will SOW as and when they please so if betting semi decent amount with them - don't

 

[9HOURSAWAY]

I joined Jennings, my first (and only deposit) was for £130 which I lost. I had no problem with that, it's gambling after all, what I did have a problem with is they straight away then asked me for 3 page bank statements and my latest P60 form before I could play again.
Needless to say they got told to do one and I closed my account.... Some of these online casinos seem to have lost their minds in my opinion.

 

[pinnit2014]

I joined Jennings, my first (and only deposit) was for £130 which I lost. I had no problem with that, it's gambling after all, what I did have a problem with is they straight away then asked me for 3 page bank statements and my latest P60 form before I could play again.
Needless to say they got told to do one and I closed my account.... Some of these online casinos seem to have lost their minds in my opinion.

You roll semi decent?

If so, stick to the likes of Unibet etc - I'm far from a high roller but been consistent with deposits and in 90k of them seen no request for SOW etc

Downside is - don't expect any offers ;-)

 

[cncas2123]

I joined Jennings, my first (and only deposit) was for £130 which I lost. I had no problem with that, it's gambling after all, what I did have a problem with is they straight away then asked me for 3 page bank statements and my latest P60 form before I could play again.
Needless to say they got told to do one and I closed my account.... Some of these online casinos seem to have lost their minds in my opinion.

Joined them last week, they put in place a £130 monthly deposit limit and after I made my deposits to that amount and lost, they emailed me for SOW/SOF due to their concern at my level of gambling.... sent them P60, 3 Payslips and redacted bank statement showing pay coming in and opening/closing balance, but they want it unredacted... not going to happen so account closed forthwith.
Do they seriously think I am going to send anything unredacted for a £130 a month limit?

 

[pinnit2014]

And casinos wonder why they go out of business? Platin was quite similar, but nowhere near as bad - bank statements etc for ,500 quid deposits. Needless to say, they didn't get un redacted. They can't blame the UKGC for that, as well - even if they are wary of fines etc, nowhere is it intimated they must SOW for 130

 

[pinnit2014]

Double Post

 

[k6kaysix]

Even in my local land based casino which has a walk in policy feel free to lose as much as you want without a blink but as soon as you dare win a few quid they're onto you like hawks demanding SOW documentation

After being asked for the third time I told them to SO(_) off and haven't returned in several years now, so my bank account thanks them

 

[mcgameboy]

Joined them last week, they put in place a £130 monthly deposit limit and after I made my deposits to that amount and lost, they emailed me for SOW/SOF due to their concern at my level of gambling.... sent them P60, 3 Payslips and redacted bank statement showing pay coming in and opening/closing balance, but they want it unredacted... not going to happen so account closed forthwith.
Do they seriously think I am going to send anything unredacted for a £130 a month limit?

They probably do.

But they do seem to have forgotten that SOW is to establish just that. Your source of funds and ONLY that.

What your spending habits are is sweet FA to do with them.
If I want to spend £30 in March for an online order from Hotel Chocolat and another £30 from Interflora during the month of March because it
is Mother's Day soon, it really is none of the casino's f*cking goddam business.

As far as I am concerned, the casino gets to see my earnings from gainful employment, my casino winnings (because players DO recycle winnings, sometimes for a reason as simple as "oh I won at this site playing BTG, now I can go make a deposit somewhere else to play NLC/Relax/whatever") and a HMRC tax rebate (if I actually get one that year).

And if the casino comes back to me saying they want an unredacted statement, then I'll tell them somewhat bluntly....

"that's all you are fucking getting mate, now fucking do one"

SOW = Does it mean Source of Wealth? I'm not at all convinced, it really could be any of the below.....

Stealing Of Winnings
Secrecy Obliteration Witchhunt
Slimeball Operation conducted by Wankers

 

[justdoit]

WHG played for over 4 years on 4 accounts last month banned all WHG and force me to Self-excluded for 5 years, I ask to close my account they refused and they will use my data for the next 5 years forcing me to hold accounts with WHG, I made complained first they come up when I was on gamstop i try to open accounts lol, but my gamestop expired in 2021 and I keep playing on 4 accounts, way they did not ban me when I try to open a new account when I was on gamstop, but they let me play one more year and ban me, they just make up stories as they go, only casino I trust from Malta @Team.Videoslots (I never win on Videoslot ?) and PartyCasino they just chill casinos they don't ask much, and they pay all time without a problem.. WHG need to ban ppl and force them to be Self-excluded like (problem gamblers) to make UKGC happy, they using our names to cover their shit on UKGC, they don't care if you were a customer for over 4 years they fk you up, same time there are streamers from WHG they play on 4-5 different WHG sides, streaming on £40 a spin and calling BJ £2000-£3000 a hand but me playing on 0.20-1 a spin they target me as a problem gambler

 

[cncas2123]

They probably do.

But they do seem to have forgotten that SOW is to establish just that. Your source of funds and ONLY that.

What your spending habits are is sweet FA to do with them.
If I want to spend £30 in March for an online order from Hotel Chocolat and another £30 from Interflora during the month of March because it
is Mother's Day soon, it really is none of the casino's f*cking goddam business.

As far as I am concerned, the casino gets to see my earnings from gainful employment, my casino winnings (because players DO recycle winnings, sometimes for a reason as simple as "oh I won at this site playing BTG, now I can go make a deposit somewhere else to play NLC/Relax/whatever") and a HMRC tax rebate (if I actually get one that year).

And if the casino comes back to me saying they want an unredacted statement, then I'll tell them somewhat bluntly....

"that's all you are fucking getting mate, now fucking do one"

SOW = Does it mean Source of Wealth? I'm not at all convinced, it really could be any of the below.....

Stealing Of Winnings
Secrecy Obliteration Witchhunt
Slimeball Operation conducted by Wankers

Joined them last week, they put in place a £130 monthly deposit limit and after I made my deposits to that amount and lost, they emailed me for SOW/SOF due to their concern at my level of gambling.... sent them P60, 3 Payslips and redacted bank statement showing pay coming in and opening/closing balance, but they want it unredacted... not going to happen so account closed forthwith.
Do they seriously think I am going to send anything unredacted for a £130 a month limit?

I told them that if they didnt think I could afford to gamble then they should close my account, and they sent this reply:

Thank you for your email.

We apologise for any inconvenience this request may cause but we are obliged to follow strict regulations as set out by our regulator, the UK Gambling Commission. As you have made a request to increase your monthly Deposits Limit to £500, we need to eliminate any affordability concerns.

You are under no obligation to provide these documents if you do not wish to do so, but we will be unable to reactivate the account. If you would like to continue with the current limit of £130 monthly then you will need to return the limit back to this monthly amount and bring to our attention to reinstate the account. Alternatively, if you would like to close the account then please let us know by responding to this email?

We hope this now clarifies matters.


Won't bother replying, not going through hoops.

 

[pinnit2014]

Shooting selves in their own (both feet) -be interesting to know in terms of how much custom they lose in money terms via such a policy v how much in a fine they may, or may not, get

Said before, but the likes of Unibet here - over the years i'm nigh on 90k of deposits - my plays not changed much, been pretty consistent and maybe that's why they've chosen not to go down a draconian route as they can see there are no red flags to changes of behaviours - IMO is the right way to do things and something that, as a business, you can stand over and defend (should the clown at the GC call you)

I get the impression from some casinos, given how inept they've been at SOW and RG, they go down this route because they're not confident in their own processes. Hence the blanket approach in many cases.

 

[goatwack]

This is what years of vague regulations end up as, as we're nearing the 'end stage' of these events.

Because as we're seeing, it's not sustainable, and will simply result in next to no casinos being available to the player, other than unregulated Curacao cup-o-cocoa crypto clipjoints that have about as much recourse as buying off a counterfeit seller on ebay.

I'd imagine casinos have 'settled' upon some form of extensive KYC/ SoW thresholds, but it's likely to their own detriment, and those that haven't seen their customers abandon them in droves, will surely do so before long.

I had enough grief dealing with simple passport- holding selfies and cropped blurry documents as it was, the annoyance was great then. But the moment casinos make up their own interpretations on what financial depths they can delve into, I wouldn't be sad enough to provide them that anyway, nor would I feel 'compelled' to seek my gambling kicks from a tax haven island either, so that they can sell my details on and spam my Junk folder with insufferable shite.

Far better to not validate casinos' anti-player methods up until the industry gets sorted out. It'll happen, I'll wait

 

[pinnit2014]

They'll just go into hyperdrive for new customers because if most (or a lot of) folk, i imagine, abandon then after X deposits then they'll need to have a constant churn up to that (random?) amount - as a business model, it's complete madness. Never mind the fact you get increased affiliate/advertising fees to attract the new custom - so they'll be hit with that as well.

There will come a watershed moment for the UKGC, i imagine when their fee income from licences maybe becomes impacted but even then i'd hazard a guess it wont quell their anti casino stance - how you can claim to want to clean up the casino industry yet licence the likes of 888.com is beyond me.

 

[mitak11]

Присъединих се към тях миналата седмица, те въведоха месечен лимит за депозит от £130 и след като направих депозитите си до тази сума и загубих, те ми изпратиха имейл за SOW/SOF поради загрижеността си за моето ниво на хазарт.... изпратиха им P60 , 3 фиша за заплати и редактирано банково извлечение, показващо постъпващото плащане и начален/заключителен баланс, но те искат нередактирано... няма да се случи, така че сметката да бъде затворена незабавно.
Сериозно ли мислят, че ще изпратя нещо нередактирано за лимит от £130

 

[mitak11]

Shooting selves in their own (both feet) -be interesting to know in terms of how much custom they lose in money terms via such a policy v how much in a fine they may, or may not, get

Said before, but the likes of Unibet here - over the years i'm nigh on 90k of deposits - my plays not changed much, been pretty consistent and maybe that's why they've chosen not to go down a draconian route as they can see there are no red flags to changes of behaviours - IMO is the right way to do things and something that, as a business, you can stand over and defend (should the clown at the GC call you)

I get the impression from some casinos, given how inept they've been at SOW and RG, they go down this route because they're not confident in their own processes. Hence the blanket approach in many cases.

Unibet without asking me to verify the source of wealth (which I am not worried about, because I have been working for many years on a permanent employment contract) they stopped my deposits - they checked my credit history for affordability. I was really stressed, I have been playing with them for years, with small deposits .

 

[gonzo fonso]

its disgusting,yes we will be judged on our credit history,this was coming long ago,its all about control of peoples lifes

 

[Arelya]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. Especially those with Casumo. I have only been there a week and they stalled my 3rd withdrawal for no reason. They sent me two emails - one, saying I didn't meet some wagering requirement which was nonsense because I didn't have any bonuses to play. The other suggested banking my win instead of paying it back into my card. After I tried that option and they refused those withdrawals I talked to customer support. They advised me to do the bank method again so I did and this time they approved it and sent it to my bank. They didn't ask for SOW or KYC yet but I can see it's only a matter of time. So I'm closing that account.

I'm in NZ so we've recently been hit with SOW starting up in more established casinos. I used to play at LeoVegas until they gave me the SOW treatment over a $50 withdrawal, lol. Played there for years, no issues but not going to give more info than they already got. When they sent me the SOW they removed all my previous ID and documents as well, so I closed that account. The only good thing about the accounts I'm closing is they were at zero balance anyway, I've not lost when I left. LeoVegas also gives you a drop-down list of options to tell them why you are closing your account. I chose "Leaving due to intrusive verification" or something of that nature. I'm not sure where to play now as I don't want to play at casinos that stall on payments. Seems like they're all doing it now under the guise of "protecting" the player. All it's doing is killing the fun.

 

[justdoit]

New deposit Limits in Pokerstars

 

[satchnz]

Can anyone explain to me the logic behind including withdrawals in this calculation?

 

[goatwack]

No bloody idea, it looks like the 'system' was thought up by a 24 year-old.

Not even sure what bearing withdrawals have on anything. What if a player was to deposit £50 twice, then withdraw £100, but then does this on loop? Do recycled winnings even count? What's with the strange age cut-off? Can Chelsea still win the league?

 

[satchnz]

Surely if one withdraws more than they deposit then their net deposits for the period should be zero? Won’t the casino then want more deposits in the hope of clawing back some of what they lost?

Is this a UKGC regulation, or is this a casino completely misunderstanding the regulations?

With all these illogical rules casinos are just turning away business. I really do not get it.

 

[justdoit]

Surely if one withdraws more than they deposit then their net deposits for the period should be zero? Won’t the casino then want more deposits in the hope of clawing back some of what they lost?

Is this a UKGC regulation, or is this a casino completely misunderstanding the regulations?

With all these illogical rules casinos are just turning away business. I really do not get it.

they trying new ideas to get loop hole on UKGC rules,I let u know next month I will make £5000 deposit see what they saying ? ?

 

[justdoit]

I ask them in twitter this there replay

 

[shadow123]

Not sure if thats insulting under or over 25 year olds
Mecca introduced net deposits a while ago, its a kind of replacement for withdrawal reversing that looks like its responsible.
Gives the player chance to redeposit after withdrawing without breaking the limit.

 

[dunover]

They probably do.

But they do seem to have forgotten that SOW is to establish just that. Your source of funds and ONLY that.

What your spending habits are is sweet FA to do with them.
If I want to spend £30 in March for an online order from Hotel Chocolat and another £30 from Interflora during the month of March because it
is Mother's Day soon, it really is none of the casino's f*cking goddam business.

As far as I am concerned, the casino gets to see my earnings from gainful employment, my casino winnings (because players DO recycle winnings, sometimes for a reason as simple as "oh I won at this site playing BTG, now I can go make a deposit somewhere else to play NLC/Relax/whatever") and a HMRC tax rebate (if I actually get one that year).

And if the casino comes back to me saying they want an unredacted statement, then I'll tell them somewhat bluntly....

"that's all you are fucking getting mate, now fucking do one"

SOW = Does it mean Source of Wealth? I'm not at all convinced, it really could be any of the below.....

Stealing Of Winnings
Secrecy Obliteration Witchhunt
Slimeball Operation conducted by Wankers

Sick of Wanking?

 

[shadow123]

Sick of Wanking?

Stalling of withdrawal

 

[mcgameboy]

Sick of Wanking?

 

[ShadyFei]

Stalling of withdrawal

We have a Winner! ? ding ding ding

 

[shadow123]

Ya

 

[Valhalla]

I've yet to be asked, hence I chose option 7. But if I ever am asked, that will be changed to option 4. There is not a single private company on Earth I will forward my bank statements to. They can do one, I'll take a loss and keep my privacy.

 

[Realitybitez]

Yes, it is NOW but in the PM you sent there was 6 exisiting options so I thought you would tack it on last at #7.

Im not UK or Eu but I want to put in my 2cents anyway???. I find the SOW requests annoying and intrusive but I can live with it. What pees me off big time is when you have a win, and they hold your winnings hostage demanding SOW proof right after it? A certsin casino comes to mind.? Bet365 were the opposite. They asked me for SOW proof but they werent holding any of my money so it was totally up to me weather I wanted to supply documents and keep on playing there or move on?

 

[winner2021]

@Realitybitez were you withdrawing a large amount? I've never been asked for SOW proof when trying to withdraw but I always make sure I withdraw in smaller increments than say 1000-I figure I won't get flagged up by the system if I withdraw only a few hundred at a time. Or maybe I've just been lucky on the sites I play on! Makes no sense to me to get asked for it AFTER you've had a win but then I know why they do it as it benefits them! Only thing I have on my sites is deposit and loss limits that they put on automatically, and to be fair I do need them. Only way I can change that is to then provide SOW. I can afford my losses but I don't want to spend crazy amounts so I'm ok with the limits.

 

[Guntis]

Yesterday I got hit with SOW at three UK land-based casinos, Grosvenor, Genting, and Napoleon. Right now they all are going mad about it and are monitoring literally everyone. I spoke to a few other players and they said exactly the same.

 

[aceking123]

Yesterday I got hit with SOW at three UK land-based casinos, Grosvenor, Genting, and Napoleon. Right now they all are going mad about it and are monitoring literally everyone. I spoke to a few other players and they said exactly the same.

Did they request you to bring in proof ? Or was it just normal questions?

 

[Guntis]

Did they request you to bring in proof ? Or was it just normal questions?

They requested a proper evidence of where my income is coming from, at least a bank statement. Grosvenor and Genting refused me entering, and Napoleon said to email or bring in a bank statement within 7 days.

I like Grosvenor on an Egdware road, in my opinion it's the best casino in London to gamble at. They have chilled atmosphere, decent pitbosses and many proper old school British croupiers, and they instantly transfer winnings to a bank account, if one needs. So with these I'll get properly verified the next time.

 

[aceking123]

Seems same as my mate last year whilst we were trying to enter grosvenor in my home town.

 

[Guntis]

One more note here, just spoke to Genting managers at Shaftesbury avenue... Basically, they have affordability checks which mean you can show your bank balance of the phone that you're OK to loose some £100 because you have enough coins in your bank account. And then they have SOW when things get serious when you start playing roulette at 1k a spin like me, etc ...

 

[Mr_Slot5]

One more note here, just spoke to Genting managers at Shaftesbury avenue... Basically, they have affordability checks which mean you can show your bank balance of the phone that you're OK to loose some £100 because you have enough coins in your bank account. And then they have SOW when things get serious when you start playing roulette at 1k a spin like me, etc ...

WTF has it got to do with Tom, Dick or Harry how much money you have in your bank account unless applying for a mortgage or loan? The world has absolutely gone to crap. All that ultimately matters is whether you have funds at the point of sale, that's how transactions work.

If I have £100 in my bank and I want to gamble £90 of it then that is my decision to make as an autonomous being who can make conscious decisions over my personal finances.

 

[Guntis]

WTF has it got to do with Tom, Dick or Harry how much money you have in your bank account unless applying for a mortgage or loan? The world has absolutely gone to crap. All that ultimately matters is whether you have funds at the point of sale, that's how transactions work.

If I have £100 in my bank and I want to gamble £90 of it then that is my decision to make as an autonomous being who can make conscious decisions over my personal finances.

Yeah, I know what you say, but if you have your last 100 on your acc and now sticking 90 in a slot machine or whatever, i guess, they'll get rid of you (in a case you get checked for affordability).

PS. The funniest thing for me with all this is that we must bring in our personal stuff to be able to lose money

 

[Siohmy]

Proving you can afford to gamble by means of providing a full itinerary of your spending is the most unacceptable BS I have ever encountered.
What business is it of theirs if I spend £40 per month on PornHub and a further £200 at my local massage parlour.
As long as I am getting value for money that is all that matters. Slot machine manufacturers take note.

Edit: I think this may be the Source Of Wanking that Dunover was referring to earlier. I would say this would come under that but I think that’s taking it a bit too far.

 

[winner2021]

How can anyone possibly decide what someone else has to spend anyway-it varies so much. There has to be a better way. We already have limits online so you can take a break, self exclude, deposit/loss limits. Only thing I think they need to add which I don't think sites have is a way to block certain areas of a site-ie if slots are the worst thing for people but they can control their other gambling then just be able to block slots or casino side, whatever. They are not supposed to be bringing these SOW measures in anyway-so why are they? The UKGC threw that idea out I thought?

 

[Siohmy]

When you provide tools which allow you to set your limits, allow you to self exclude, allow you to take a break, allow you to control what you do, they are subsequently feeding the line that the individual has no responsibility by pushing their restrictive rules/SOW.
It just pushes more individuals to claim it is anyone else’s fault but their own.
Addiction is horrible. I was a victim of fruit machine addiction. I had to sort it out myself. I managed to get my shit together. There are so many ways of getting help. Instead they decide that we all can’t control ourselves on any level. I look forward to the requirement for proof of not drinking too much when buying alcohol.
I also think it’s fucking hypocritical of the UKGC and government to push all these holier than though restrictions whilst allowing countless bookies to open in often poorer parts of the country.

 

[winner2021]

So since one of my sites changed bingo software they set up net deposit limits of £250 a month automatically (I assume for everyone), without even informing me (I know you can easily find it on the site but still it would've been nice to be told this would happen)-I expect to some £250 sounds like a large amount and to others a very small amount. Personally for me that is quite a small amount to last a month-all my other sites have much higher monthly limits imposed like £1k or more. I only kept that site open to play slots on now since I don't like their new bingo so I might just close it. I don't drink I don't take drugs I don't spend a lot on clothes etc. but I don't expect to have to go through this all with a third party to decide what I can spend gambling.

I can't believe someone actually came up with this idea and got some sites to implement it, I thought we all had a legal right to a private life (something like that anyway) and imo this violates that. I don't want limits the same every month-people spend different amounts every month, or want to spend more on a site one month due to a certain promo or whatever. I can go one month and barely gamble at all and then if I have the funds (and only then) can I spend significantly more. I can set my own limits and change that whenever I want. I don't need a blanket £250 net deposit limit a month imposed. I said earlier I was ok with some limits, and I needed them to a certain extent but £250 per month is getting suspiciously like the £100 a month was it(?) the UKGC were suggesting a while back-which I believe was supposed to have been thrown out. And which most agreed was incredibly low.

It's getting worrying, this net deposit thing-I suppose some could find a way round it and if you get a good win just use your winnings to play with all month, but one bad streak and you're done for the whole month. And I bet they'd just love you to end up keeping funds in your account and spending all that knowing you can't deposit again for ages. Jokes on them though because I'll just play on my other sites instead.

Of course I could increase the limit, if I provided SOW-they require one of these documents before they will look into increasing your limit-

A copy of your most recent payslip

A copy of your most recent bank statement clearly showing available funds

If you are self-employed, a copy of any documentation to evidence your current earnings

Income from investments/other income-A copy of any documentation to prove the receipt of other sources of current income such as the sale of shares, an inheritance or the sale of a property

I wonder if previous winnings comes under "other income"-probably not! Of course you could send one of these documents in, hell you could send all of them in and STILL they say you can't afford it, in their opinion.

 

[Valhalla]

@winner2021 - see, this is where I draw a very deep and wide line in the sand. I love playing online slots when I'm not at the tables, but the moment I'm asked for that kind of information is the moment my account is closed and I move on. And even if every gambling site I have an account at makes this request, well then I simply stop gambling online and move on with my life ?‍

 

[Valhalla]

Just had my first SOW request - kind of - from (of course) Casumo.
Was trying to reopen my account after years away, and all was going well until the nice lady on chat said all that's left to do now is upload the following documents:

• Proof of identification
• Proof of address
• 3 months bank statements
• Proof of regular income matching statements

ME: You want copies of my bank statements??
Nice lady: You can simply download them in PDF form and send them to this link.
ME: I am not sending my bank statements to a private company, you can keep my account closed. But thank you for your assistance ?

I swear I'm going to move to mainland Europe so I can do the things I want to do without all this hassle.
Which country is best for casino gaming? ?