Poll Source of Wealth poll: How do the SOW requirements affect you?

[Thewitch19]

There is a difference between asking for live photos(BGO casino) and Bank Statements versus supplying Passport,Driving Licence,Utility Bills etc( which I always comply with and other players I've spoken to also happily comply with.)

I did everything they asked sent all the documents still waiting for my pay out just keep getting emails asking for more customer service is horrendous

 

[Mark_BGO]

No offence taken. I know you know your stuff but surely you know arbitrary limits are useless and nothing but a blunt tool. Sound for RG checks but about as useful as a cat flap on a submarine for AML purposes (especially on a cumulative bas

I did everything they asked sent all the documents still waiting for my pay out just keep getting emails asking for more customer service is horrendous

Sorry to hear you’re having problems. Feel free to PM your username and I’ll investigate.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Sorry to hear you’re having problems. Feel free to PM your username and I’ll investigate.

I’m all good, just love a good debate ?? (you quoted me too) ?

 

[Kurtsmummy]

I won’t be playing online no more due to the sow, it would be ok if it’s just a bank statement but when they want everything including 3rd party documents that’s when I walk away

 

[Mark_BGO]

I’m all good, just love a good debate ?? (you quoted me too) ?

Fat fingers sorry!

 

[Eddd]

Its highly intrusive.
Its often used as a deterrent for players they consider risky from a fraud point of view
There is generally no correlation between levels of wealth determined by SOW and deposit limits.
SOW is generally asked for AFTER a player has lost - it is not protective for the player, it is protective for the operators vs the UKGC.

IF SOW was done once, at registration, indiscriminately (rather than just high risk players), and bet limits, promo limits, and deposit limits were correlated with the SOW, then it could be highly effective.

 

[Deeplay]

I decided long ago never to comply with a SOW ever again after the farce that Rizk casino put me through. And will never comply with this. What I earn and where is no ones business but mine, my accountant and Hmrc. This is part of the reason why now I have stopped playing at any UK online casinos. And as they are no decent safe offshore options available at this time (but I think that could change over the next few years) I dont play at all at the moment. Not to derail but low rtps - chronic CS for the most part and a general growing mistrust overall I decided to stop.

The last Sow request I had earlier this year was from a very well known casino - who wanted me to send very sensitive documents through email. Yeah right sure just send them of to a dark hole somewhere with no idea who could be reading them and of course the obvious security issues with sending such data through email. I know its a personal choice and I know that it is a requirment under UKGC rules but it does not mean I have to agree with it. And the utter BS I was put through from Rizk was one of the final nails in this for me. Being self employed and also now being involved in a partnership - no way would I divulge income data to a casino. Verify im over 18 - my address and card details fine. The rest of it not a chance now.

 

[Dinahnana]

Here are my two cents. Many casinos use SOW as a "legitimate" way to deny winnings. As far as I am concerned as long as you are verified and nothing is amis then you shouldn't need SOW. Casumo requested a very intrusive SOW so I don't play there anymore. I am very uncomfortable giving casinos too much personal information that I wouldn't share with my accountant. As long as you verify that your deposit method and withdrawal method and Id is yours the player ought to be good. Don't see land-based casinos having to do this crap.

 

[Eliot85]

Is the point with sow to detect moneylaundring.. And problemsgamblers aswell.. Does this mean that if they after geting dokument of ny bankacount and see a lot of deposits on different casino, give them right to not pay put a win to ”Protect” me?

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Here are my two cents. Many casinos use SOW as a "legitimate" way to deny winnings. As far as I am concerned as long as you are verified and nothing is amis then you shouldn't need SOW. Casumo requested a very intrusive SOW so I don't play there anymore. I am very uncomfortable giving casinos too much personal information that I wouldn't share with my accountant. As long as you verify that your deposit method and withdrawal method and Id is yours the player ought to be good. Don't see land-based casinos having to do this crap.

Yes I think we’re approaching the point where if casinos do not employ a personal risk based approach with common sense, there will be little of the UK market left for them. I think some operators are already at the point where they may as well just pull out.

The ones that strike the balance between risk mitigation and a good casino experience for the average player are the ones that will thrive.

 

[Deeplay]

There is generally no correlation between levels of wealth determined by SOW and deposit limits.
SOW is generally asked for AFTER a player has lost - it is not protective for the player, it is protective for the operators vs the UKGC.

Good point it is totally useless as an affordability check. If I have 20 casino accounts with different companys and im doing a grand a month at each - the casino asking for the SOW would only be able to base my account VS deposits on what I spend at that casino. So its pointless totally pointless no matter how much spin the casinos will try place on this.

Its the same with DL that are enforced. Utterly pointless from a RG pov - as whats to say I dont have multiple accounts with the same DL or higher. If a person is going to gamble in a none responsible way they will do it. All SOW etc does is cover a casinos back and nothing more. Its a very false saftey net. What I spend at Casino A means nothing in relation to my income if I have multiple casino accounts - which many people I would presume do.

 

[Mouse75]

If I may contribute my 2 pence worth.

SOW - I don't mind the concept - and will happily upload proof of earnings once.

However I have serious issues with those casinos that then take it a step further... imposing mandatory deposit limits and the such like. I don't get this bull in a B&M establishment

The difference in the interpretation of SOW and responsible gambling guidelines is immense.

I think it will drive me away completely in the near future - more frustrating is that so many casino customer service departments make you feel that you have done something wrong in their pursuit and the way communications are written.

Its a service industry - yet they (Not all) act like they are doing you a favour

 

[Dinahnana]

Is the point with sow to detect moneylaundring.. And problemsgamblers aswell.. Does this mean that if they after geting dokument of ny bankacount and see a lot of deposits on different casino, give them right to not pay put a win to ”Protect” me?

That is all well and good but it seems they can't tell the difference between problem gamblers and players who are on a hot streak (rare these days) I can understand SOW if a player has lost 5k or something like that in a couple of days but if a player plays more than they usually do (due to a win elsewhere) that shouldn't throw up alarm bells. I guess I am sick of Big Brother.

 

[Deeplay]

Its a service industry - yet they (Not all) act like they are doing you a favour

Correction it used to be "a service industry" where the customer was really looked after. These days apart from a handful of reps on sites like this - players are now just a number. The days of getting any kind of personal treatment are long gone. One would almost think some of the "customer support" agents are power mad. I know my limits - know what and where I want to spend my money and dont need some 25 year old minimum wage customer support agent trying to dictate to me what I can and can not do. Especially when it comes to asking for SOW documents!

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Its a service industry - yet they (Not all) act like they are doing you a favour

‘For your safety we are declining your withdrawal request’

??

 

[colinsunderland]

Simply because there are regulations which say that SOW is required once certain thresholds are hit. You’re correct that many casual players may go under the radar but eventually you’ll hit it even if £50/month player.

Sorry Mark but thats wrong. There shouldn't be fixed limits for AML requirements as once players find out what they are, then they can launder and stay just under the limits. I know casinos do this, but it's wrong. Feel free to link to the regulation you are saying exists though in case I've missed something from a UKGC perspective (rather than the actual law).

 

[philderby]

Like ive said in other posts, its made me take up other non gambling related hobbies that I'm thoroughly enjoying. My days of slotting are pretty much up at this point. Its embarrassing how much I've spent on these silly games over the years

 

[Mark_BGO]

Sorry Mark but thats wrong. There shouldn't be fixed limits for AML requirements as once players find out what they are, then they can launder and stay just under the limits. I know casinos do this, but it's wrong. Feel free to link to the regulation you are saying exists though in case I've missed something from a UKGC perspective (rather than the actual law).

There are limits set for AML reviews which vary between operators based on their risk appetite. Otherwise how would they be triggered for review? It’s not necessarily a fixed financial sum but also based on frequency and activity.

I havent got links to hand (I’m in the pub) but from recent experience with the GC and having to evidence these checks and processes exist I can confirm it’s an actual thing!

 

[ydies]

SOW, for me, is very intrusive.
I am a very anxious person. Usually, when I withdraw, I always think they will reject or ask for documents and not pay me. Haha.
So, some casinos that I played asked for SOW, and I am not from the UK.
As I don't really believe in any casino, I am always uncomfortable in sending documents (KYC). But sending more things (SOW) is really bad.
I don't know the security in these places, I don't know if they can use my documents and my info (Maybe I am paranoid). Nowadays, information is everything and very easy to obtain.
I don't remember what casino wanted my SOW (when I was in another country - a long time ago). They said it was to protect me (gambling problem) and not allow money laundering.
It did not protect me because it was in the withdrawal moment (They should have asked for the deposit).

 

[Flyingslotsman]

Simply because there are regulations which say that SOW is required once certain thresholds are hit. You’re correct that many casual players may go under the radar but eventually you’ll hit it even if £50/month player.

What's the threshold? I've never been asked, I'm a UK player and I'm not a high roller.

 

[Dinahnana]

Is the point with sow to detect moneylaundring.. And problemsgamblers aswell.. Does this mean that if they after geting dokument of ny bankacount and see a lot of deposits on different casino, give them right to not pay put a win to ”Protect” me?

Don't see the landbased having to jump through these hoops so I guess if you were want to money launder do it it in a land-based casino :d

 

[Bunbu]

There's an easy solution to manage all "issues" with KYC and SOW. Casinos to not accept new players deposits before both of the above conditions have been met.

Withdrawals will be processed at nearly the same time as deposits, as this is the only fair approach for both parties.
But, don't we know that this solution is supported by only one party?

We all know that many online casinos prey on gambling addiction, therefore SOW/KYC withdraw issues "happen random."

The real question is: Why don't casinos pay out at the same speed as deposits appear in their bank accounts?

To repeat myself: " There's an easy solution to manage all "issues" with KYC and SOW. Casinos to not accept new players deposits before both of the above conditions have been met".

P.S. SOW is maximum intrusive, not even Yoda like it.

 

[colinsunderland]

There are limits set for AML reviews which vary between operators based on their risk appetite. Otherwise how would they be triggered for review? It’s not necessarily a fixed financial sum but also based on frequency and activity.

I havent got links to hand (I’m in the pub) but from recent experience with the GC and having to evidence these checks and processes exist I can confirm it’s an actual thing!

They are supposed to be risk based, not set limits. Even the UKGC guidance said that, not sure if it's been updated since then though.
If you are also applying other factors then that isn't what I mean. I know for a fact some casinos have hard turnover limits that will trigger an AML enquiry, one is £15k. It doesn't matter if you hit that in 2 hours or 20 years, once you hit £15k then you get SOW'd. So deposit £100, get a massive hit, withdraw £14900, and you will have to provide AML SOW before they pay you (well so they say).

That doesn't work, and is part of the reason people mistrust casinos and see it as a delaying tactic. I could deposit £5k, play roulette, turn it over once, and withdraw say £4500, nice £4.5k clean money (sort of, I'll come to that in a minute). Yet deposit £100, win, and maybe get denied a payout. Who's more likely to be the money launderer?

I got a SOW from one accredited casino on here with £50 lifetime deposits in about 2 years, and no withdrawals. There's no way they were taking a risk based approach.

On top of that, if a casino adopts the last in, first out method, then money laundering is almost impossible, as there is a clear money trail. The other ways, not so much.

Then at the other end of the scale you have the big bookies, who money launderers must love. Walk into Coral, pay £500 in using my connect card, play a tenner off, then withdraw to bank. Nice clean £490. Theres obviously a bit more to it than that to clean money and not going to go into too much detail on a public forum, but theres only one step missing.

Regarding your bonus, my latest £10 deposit match offer has the following terms, so not just the welcome bonus

• What wagering requirements are there?
• There is a 65x wagering requirement on the Bonus which must be completed on the Promotion Games. This means that if you have deposited £10 and received a Bonus of £10 your wagering requirement is £650.

 

[colinsunderland]

Those who think SoW should be done before first deposit, thats impossible. How can a risk based approach be taken when a casino hasn't seen your activity? It would also be suicide for online casinos, you sign up to stick a tenner in a new casino, and you have to wait days or weeks and send bank statements in from you, your family, friends, business contacts etc? Yeah like you wouldn't say 'fuck off' to that.

 

[Bunbu]

Yeah like you wouldn't say 'fuck off' to that.

That is something I have already told any online casino/sportsbook who has(will) ask/ed for a SOW.
On top of that, thanks for SOW, whoever set it in motion, I will lose much less money online.

No land-based bookmaker or casino has ever requested my SOW, and KYC is limited to displaying your ID card if you win and tax must be payed.