Something to meditate upon...

DaveSold99

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
Costa Rica
Imagine this:

1) You open up a new account :)

2) You make a $100 deposit ;)

3) You take a 100% bonus :thumbsup:

4) You see $300 in your account... :eek2:


what would you do? :confused:
 

SlotKing

New Member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Kentucky, ya'll...
Imagine this:

1) You open up a new account :)

2) You make a $100 deposit ;)

3) You take a 100% bonus :thumbsup:

4) You see $300 in your account... :eek2:


what would you do? :confused:
Without a doubt, immediately go to support. Something is obviously fishy and needs to be corrected. I also WOULD NOT TOUCH the balance until it was straightened out, for fear of "bonus abuse".

My 2c.
 

DaveSold99

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
Costa Rica
Without a doubt, immediately go to support. Something is obviously fishy and needs to be corrected. I also WOULD NOT TOUCH the balance until it was straightened out, for fear of "bonus abuse".

My 2c.
EXACTLY :D

What happens is that sometimes there are misunderstandings in relation to this issue. The idea is to play fairly for both sides. All players have the right to get paid when they have played going 100% by the bonus rules (if they have taken a bonus). Following that same logic, the casinos have the right to take proper action whenever something unusual happens with an account. It's common sense. Nobody wants to be treated unfairly.

When it comes to online casino gaming there is nothing better than finding the right casino, getting to know who you are dealing with and become friends with them to share each others entertainment business with honesty and loyalty.

You said "fear of bonus abuse". I think that there is no reason to be afraid when you are doing business with people you trust. Open communication is necessary on both sides. There is no need to be "hiding" or "avoiding" each other. We are all adults and we can solve our differences just by communicating in a clear way.
 

oldtrvlagt

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Location
Iowa
It's not only "fear of bonus abuse" but I want the casino I'm playing at to be fair and honest with me. How can I expect that if I'm not fair and honest with them. What good does it do me? I had a Federal Tax refund sent by mistake to my bank account many years ago when they first started doing direct deposit refunds....I contacted the IRS but also the bank. It took them a couple of weeks but they did figure it out and took the money back. What good would it have done to go out and blow the money, knowing full well it wasn't mine, and I would have to give it back.

Why would I do one and not the other? We all complain about the "rogue" casinos...wouldn't this be "rogue" player behavior?
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
what would you do?
Judging from what I see in the PABs your average player would say "woo-hoo four day weekend!" and immediately start playing the lot.

Bad idea.

As far as I can see that unexpectedly large balance in the player account should be treated like an unexpectedly large balance in your bank account: something is not right and you can bet that sooner or later someone is going to figure that out. Best to contact someone about it and get things sorted than assume the gods have finally smiled upon you and spend it as if it was yours ... which it isn't.
 

cheetahwind

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Location
Iowa
Here's even the better question, let's say you deposit at an Accredited Casino. That advertises 30x playthrough, yet the playthrough counter gives an extra 2x times play. Making it 32x times. Yet support doesn't see it? What would a good casino manager do?
 

SlotKing

New Member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Kentucky, ya'll...
EXACTLY :D


When it comes to online casino gaming there is nothing better than finding the right casino, getting to know who you are dealing with and become friends with them to share each others entertainment business with honesty and loyalty.

You said "fear of bonus abuse". I think that there is no reason to be afraid when you are doing business with people you trust. Open communication is necessary on both sides. There is no need to be "hiding" or "avoiding" each other. We are all adults and we can solve our differences just by communicating in a clear way.
Most of us players already know this. Unfortunately, it seems that most (and I stress MOST, hence not all) casinos cannot, for the life of them, grasp this concept. They are simply in the business of taking wagers and seem to forget that there is a bigger picture to be seen.

One in particular (3Dice) will take the time out of their day to actually stop what they are doing and go have a chat with their players (or throw a party, or play a game, or this, or that) - something any other casino or casino manager (at least IMO) couldn't be bothered to do or could care less about. They seem more concerned with the high rollers and how lavishly they treat them, as opposed to the "little guys" who come for entertainment.

I agree wholeheartedly that there needs to be a respect and trust - and that it has to go both ways. The tough sell here is on the casinos' side to get to know their players and learn, from their own mouths, what they would like and how they would like to be treated. This measure alone would probably cut complaints at least in half, since there would be someone that people could talk to as if they were one of your friends.

The reason I say "bonus abuse" is because most casinos (again, not all) would say to themselves.. "Wait.. they weren't supposed to get that much!", immediately search out that idiotic term in their T&C's, invoke it, and piss yet another player off. This, in turn, leads to more bad publicity, which leads to forum postings, etc, which leads to more reasons why countries like the US are attempting to ban OG. This would not happen at places where there is mutual trust - as the player would notice something "off" and do the right thing by notifying someone about it - unless the player is rogue and decides to screw the casino - in this case, the casino has every right to screw them back.

But you are right Dave.... we are all adults. And if certain casinos would step up by admitting they are as well, as opposed to whiny children claiming the bully hit them, things would certainly quiet down.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
I would immediately contact support to find out what is going on. Before playing. Sure hope that it would be corrected immediately. Sometimes casinos offer a variety of SUBs, and the terms are not all the same.

A 100percent bonus might well be cashable, with no max cashout. The 200 percent offer is likely phantom, and can't be cashed out.

If I just hit a lucky day when there was additional offer, and support provides me with a link to the terms, I might choose to play the extra bonus.

Whatever reason it is in my account, I need to know what changes that makes for me as a player.

Maybe I took a bonus that allowed me to play all games, and they incorrectly credited a slot bonus.

First step is to find out why it is there. And if the problem was not corrected within eight hours, I'd be emailing to have the bonus removed, my deposit returned, and my account closed.

Mistakes do happen, but a casino's ability to correct them "on the fly" matter a whole lot to me.

When I deposit, I want to play. I don't have so much gambling budget that I can just go off and make other deposit(s), and when I do win, I expect payment promptly.
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya: Well Most players do not hang out on message boards and such, and would just accept it as is, and start playing. It would be interesting if they lost $200, "their $100, and the $100 bonus", before the mistake was discovered, and with the other, "mistaken $100", had met playthru, and Won a LOT of money...........

Here is what a player should actually do.
1. Check bank acct to make sure they only deposited $100, and not $200, via a mistake, or a double charge on the deposit.
2. Check to see if they have any e mail from the casino saying here is an extra $100.
3. Check Casino web site to see if there was an adjustment to the bonus. Maybe 200% this week only, or a Casinomeister special, or something like that.
4. Then, if after doing all this, you have NO idea why there is an extra $100 in your ballance, you contact the casino to ask why it is there, "Before" you make a single bet...............

I had my bank many years ago, "When i cashed out at Wynn", over credit me by several thousand $....:) I thought, "Hmmm, i must have won more money than i thought i did, or the chip scanner at Wynn is broken". Their chips have a "chip" inside them, and at the cashier cage they simply place them on a black scanner pad to count them. This prevents you from trying to cash in Fake chips.

When i got home there was a message on my answering machine from the bank manager. Simply put, it was return to the bank before closing, "ie less than 2 hours", or they will take the money out of my account, and report it as theft to the authorities....:eek:
 

uungy

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Location
Planet Earth (I think)
live chat i some casinos such as Rivals are clueless, so if you deposit and want to play "now", its no fun trying to explain to the live chat operators, who are not available usually for about 10 minutes, and then wont be able to help you.

I am not sure what would be right, but I think casinos should understand that someone who deposits wants to play now, not "go to live chat" and spend all evening trying to sort a mess the casino is responsible for.
 

DaveSold99

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
Costa Rica
Here's even the better question, let's say you deposit at an Accredited Casino. That advertises 30x playthrough, yet the playthrough counter gives an extra 2x times play. Making it 32x times. Yet support doesn't see it? What would a good casino manager do?
There are many scenarios that might be a bit uncomfortable for both the player and the casino staff. Player making a typo at the cashier and ends up coming in for $1000 instead of $100, casino rep crediting the wrong bonus amount or setting a wrong playthrough, misspelling problems with the senders and receivers name, etc

All of these situations have a solution. Nothing beats a good old Grown-up attitude its what makes misunderstandings be resolved sooner and more effectively. Again, I insist that both the player and the casino should always be acting like adults who are not trying to fool anyone and will do whatever it takes to solve things in a timely manner.

Childish behavior on both sides (player and casino) should be prohibited in this industry. Both the casino reps and the players should never engage in pointless discussions trying to see who makes the other person shut up or just to prove them wrong with no backup evidence. Whoever has the truth by its side should never get upset. Let all arguments be proved by evidence. We cannot have any type of pointless and childish attitude. If the casino rep is wrong, then he should stand corrected and move on. No discussion, No debate. Same way with the players: Once they have been proven wrong there should be no further discussion. No debate. Everybody has the right to get an answer for any particular issue. Now, if that answer does not please one of the parts involved (when its a common sense answer based in the truth), adult behavior should be encouraged.

We must all learn to accept that people are people and that every now and then everybody could incur into a mistake. That doesnt mean that there is not going to be a solution. Au contraire. Once the mistake has been pointed out, all parts involved should act accordingly without any type of discrepancies. Always looking out for the best.

I have seen many things happen. Imagine this situation for example: You come in for $100 and take a slots only bonus. You forgot about the bonus restrictions and played one blackjack hand. After you played that hand, you remembered that it was a slots only bonus and you go back to play the slots immediately without talking to the casino staff. Within 4 spins you hit a jackpot. Now you have $20K in your account instead of $200. Now you got plenty of money to cover the playthrough and still be able to cashout a large sum of money. Lets say that you finished the playthrough and you ended up with $15K in your account and go directly to make the payout request. What is going to happen with that withdrawal request? It is going to get denied. Why? Very simple bonus rules have been broken. It makes no difference if you only played one or two or thirty blackjack hands. The rules cannot be broken by any of the parts involved (casino and player). If the player has used his bonus in a proper way and the casino is alleging that the player broke the rules, the player has all right to demand some sort of evidence from the casino manager (i.e. game log or anything similar that shows the account activity) to double-check if there has been a problem. If the manager refuses to cooperate in any way (i.e. doesnt want to explain where the error occured) and comes up with an excuse, then we would be incurring in childish behavior, which is completely and totally reprehensible.

Now, given this scenario what would a manager do? The manager doesnt have many choices he can make. He could reset the players deposit and same bonus back up to start all over (if the game log shows that it was only one hand like the player said) if the player contacts support right away. There are other decisions the manager could make, for example he could also set the deposit back up and ask the player if he wants another bonus (this is in very rare occasions, usually after the player has proven his loyalty to the casino only). But the fact that the player wont receive that money still stands (because he is not entitled to it).

Now, lets imagine this final scenario (I could go on all day but I cant write a whole book on just a thread reply)

Lets say you make a $100 deposit and you want a 100% bonus. You let the casino rep know what bonus you want and the rep agrees to give you that bonus. The deposit goes in but when you check your balance you only see $100. You are very eager to play and just cant wait to see what happened to that bonus. You start playing with your cash money (the original $100 deposit) and you hit a jackpot suddenly you remember that the bonus money (which is subject to certain specific playthrough requirements) hasnt been credited yet (meaning that there is no playthrough to cover) so you make a payout request for the full balance in the account thinking that you are entitled to be PIF and that you have the truth by your side. This might sound like a clever idea but remember nobody wants to fool nobody here and we are all adults. The original deal was to get a 100% bonus on that $100 deposit and that should be honored. Same thing happens when a player makes a deposit, plays the deposit down to $0, and then calls back to see what happened to his bonus and wants it credited right away.

There could be a number of reasons why that bonus could not be credited right away (reps cpu got stuck, he was a new rep and took a long time to put it in, cpu rebooted all of a sudden, negligence, etc). In case that something like this happens and the player notices it, he should contact support again to ask them where is the bonus and demand an explanation for this delay and it is the reps responsibility to explain what happened and provide a solution to this problem.

These types of situations must be handled with care always. Managers could make an exception here depending on the customers history (or any other fact that the manager could consider relevant). If the manager decides that the player is not entitled to that bonus, then he should explain himself as in why he decided that, and the player should accept the managers explanation (as long as it appeals to common sense and adult behavior).
 

uungy

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
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Location
Planet Earth (I think)
............. (I could go on all day but I cant write a whole book on just a thread reply) ............
WHat are you trying to get to? All these scenarios. you seem to have alot of time to think about them :lolup:

Seriously speaking, its impossible to evaluate each scenario, as each case would be condtion's dependant. It depends what the terms and conditions of that particular bonus an that particular casino, so impossible to say what the "correct" thing to do is, unless you copy and paste the terms, and then give a full scenario, and then let it out.

just my 2 cents
 

DaveSold99

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
Costa Rica
live chat i some casinos such as Rivals are clueless, so if you deposit and want to play "now", its no fun trying to explain to the live chat operators, who are not available usually for about 10 minutes, and then wont be able to help you.

I am not sure what would be right, but I think casinos should understand that someone who deposits wants to play now, not "go to live chat" and spend all evening trying to sort a mess the casino is responsible for.

Thank you uungy,

I understand what you are saying and it is a completely valid point. There are a few things to keep in mind when you are looking for the best online gaming experience. You, as a player, have all the right to go your own way and play the way you want to play. It is your right. One thing that cannot be forgotten is that the online gaming experience has to be lived in a certain way already established (i.e. following the house rules)... to make the most out of it without falling into unnecessary misunderstandings. If a player refuses to "go on live chat" to ask the rep to credit his bonus or to assist him, then the player can start playing his way if he wants to...

I know it can be frustrating to go and try to spell a complicated name (MG or WU) to a person who has problems understanding english or has problems getting your credit card information. It is always very important to speak clear over the phone. Every single name has to be spelled letter by letter, and the same with credit card numbers. You can't just throw the name or just start giving out your credit card info fast and expect the rep to understand everything you have just said. This might lead to frustration. I know this can be annoying but we have to go this way if we are looking for a good online casino experience. Eventually if it gets way too annoying, you can always ask to be transferred to another rep.

You can certainly light up a cigar with a $100 bill... but woudln't it be better if you do it with a lighter or matches like most people do? You can make your own rules... and they might work for you for a while... but eventually, reality will come to meet you face to face. Reality is what you make of it yes... but there is also a shared reality between all of us, and THAT reality is more valid than our own personal realities.
 

uungy

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Location
Planet Earth (I think)
You are really talking like a casino rep now :oops:

The rules should be set by the player, not the casino. What I mean to say is, if the live chats are as rubbish as they are for the Rivals, then the casinos have to understand that as a player, you either pull your socks up, like 32red, or you cant expect players to wait 20 minutes for an incompetent agent.

Till casinos understand that the players are the ones who make the rules, we will have to wait for 8 days for a Rival cashout, and pethetic promotions.

Trust me, at the end of the day, the player is the one who gains if a casino does something like that.

I have had a similar situation, and the casino had come back offering me to continue playing there, but I wont touch them, I prefer playing somewhere who treats me well.

They know well they lost my business, I had lost quite a sum there, and probably would have lost more, so I am one up :lolup:
 

DaveSold99

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
Costa Rica
I apologize but I am not familiar with the casino you mentioned :confused:

I certainly believe that no player should wait more than one minute for a live operator to respond (unless there are connectivity problems with the chat server). And I also believe that players should receive their payouts in a timely manner without any false excuses. If there is a delay in a payout, the rep should have the obligation not only to apologize on behalf of the whole company for this unfortunate delay, but also to give a full reasonable explanation regarding the payout delay.
 

luckydabberbingo

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Location
In A shoe
Yes he is a casino rep according to post

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...s-casinos-need-better-customer-service-4.html

I will play your game


Player Deposits $100 ,entitled to a $100.00 bonus which on average takes couple hours to get credited.He lost his money ,when bonus money got credit he started playing and bit a bit higher than he did with his own money.He managed to get up to over 10k euros but instead of getting that email your withdraw has been processed ,he got his account locked .Casino wont pay him based on some rule buried in the site saying he cant wager more than 25x the bonus money.What do you think of that Scenerio and yes it is real and happened to A player in last week or two.
 

DaveSold99

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
Costa Rica
Yes he is a casino rep according to post

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...s-casinos-need-better-customer-service-4.html

I will play your game


Player Deposits $100 ,entitled to a $100.00 bonus which on average takes couple hours to get credited.He lost his money ,when bonus money got credit he started playing and bit a bit higher than he did with his own money.He managed to get up to over 10k euros but instead of getting that email your withdraw has been processed ,he got his account locked .Casino wont pay him based on some rule buried in the site saying he cant wager more than 25x the bonus money.What do you think of that Scenerio and yes it is real and happened to A player in last week or two.
Thanks Casinobonusguy :)

I am not aware of places that could take up to 2 hours to credit a bonus (unless there are technical difficulties) This doesn't sound right. To credit a bonus shoudln't take more than a few seconds

Those T&C you are telling me about sound very weird :eek:

I would have to look at the whole scenario to give out an opinion
 

DaveSold99

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Location
Costa Rica
You mean 24 hours to credit the bonus into the account?

or 24 hours to send a payout?

24 hours to place a bonus into a casino account sounds just weird :eek2:
 

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