Resolved Ruby Fortune "confiscating" over 4000GBP in winnings

[slottymcslot]

Hello all,

I will try keep this short, sweet and factual. I apologise that so soon into my membership here, I am posting a "complaint". On November 20th, I signed up to Ruby Fortune after seeing an advert on Google. I deposited 150gbp, and received 150gbp bonus. I had a big win on slots, circa 5000gbp, and asked live chat what I should do from there. They informed me of the "wagering requirements", which I completed playing only slots.

I then asked live chat, if I could withdraw my whole balance, they said yes, so I did. No rules were broken, nothing was done wrong, I played slots, won on slots, and withdrew.

Ruby Fortune then requested my ID documents via email, which I provided. After some back and forth about what ID was required to process the withdrawal, I sent them a scan of my passport, along with some other documents. On November 25th, they then emailed to inform me that they would now require "certified copies" of my ID to process my withdrawal. This is currently in the process of being acquired. Then, on November 26th, I received this email:

"Hi there "X",

Account: "XX"

Following a review of your account, we have identified that you are in breach of the casino’s standard Terms.

Please refer specifically to the following clause:

7.6

...

Where a Sign-Up Bonus has been granted to you, subject to you being required to have met all wagering requirements, you will be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 6 times your first deposit amount and any remaining balance will be forfeited. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.

Please be advised that a withdrawal of 900.00 will be released upon approval of the requested documents. The remaining balance will be confiscated.

The Casino’s standard Terms can be viewed in full at: rubyfortune.com

Regards,
Operations Department"

First, the term which was identified (7.6, is the only term in their Ts and Cs that has no sub heading (I've taken a print screen as proof, should it be changed at any point) and is not in the bonus section where it surely belongs. Furthermore, I read the Ts and Cs before signing up (to avoid this kindof thing) and I did not see it. I recently looked into signing up at Lucky Nugget casino, and the same clause was in their Ts and Cs, so I asked their live chat, they gave a spluttering answer and I opted not to play. My point is: I read Ts and Cs specifically to find clauses like this, and I did not see it before playing. Second, not once did anyone their company mention this, and I was told I could withdraw the whole balance. They stalled on accepting my ID, then demanded certified copies, THEN sent the above email.

(On a side note, are clauses like this legal? "This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management." - This is a casino that advertises quite aggressively everywhere, including UK TV. I have never heard, or seen, any mention of this clause ANYWHERE, even after searching many resources on the internet (such as CasinoMeister) since receiving this email)

I have already contacted Ruby Fortune via live chat and email to try to sort this "internally" in a calm, respectful manner, but I have been told on several occasions the matter is final, and upon receipt of my certified copies of ID they will pay me 900GBP. I have contacted RF via email, live chat, and via their rep on here (who hasn't been active for 4 weeks) with either no response or a flat out "stonewall" that the matter is final and I have "breached" their terms. I informed RF of my plans to take this matter further, including bringing this to casinomeister for advice, and was told that that was my right and I was entitled to do so, as per their live chat rep. He told me the decision was final, but would send the request through to management again. I explained to him in full, that I would seek the help of such outlets as casinomeister in this matter, and would do everything in my power to settle my account, in full, in a mature, respectful and professional manner. I have since been informed, again, the matter is final.

Basically, I am looking for help/advice of any kind, this is just kindof a "cliffnotes", I have attempted to leave all subjectivity possible out of the matter. I have further things to add, should CasinoMeister be so gracious as to assist me. There are more details to this story, but I just want to put the "barebones" out there to discuss my options.

Sincerely
SMcS

See Related Threads:

• Ruby Fortune Casino - Can't Connect, Anyone Else?
• Late Self Exclusion
• Ruby Fortune 70k + Withdrawals
• Sinister?
• They Confiscated My Luck (Ruby Fortune Tale)

 

[hakapuku]

Yes, the rule limiting the bonus winnings to 6 times deposit amount is hidden deep inside general T&C. That is a trick Palace group used to do in the past also. But, unfortunately, you don't have any chances. Because today many players are not paid based on the vague terms like "irregular play", "hedge betting" etc. Here ,at least, we have a clear term. The hidden term but still it is there (somewhere on the website).

 

[bigjohn]

Hello all,

I will try keep this short, sweet and factual. I apologise that so soon into my membership here, I am posting a "complaint". On November 20th, I signed up to Ruby Fortune after seeing an advert on Google. I deposited 150gbp, and received 150gbp bonus. I had a big win on slots, circa 5000gbp, and asked live chat what I should do from there. They informed me of the "wagering requirements", which I completed playing only slots.

I then asked live chat, if I could withdraw my whole balance, they said yes, so I did. No rules were broken, nothing was done wrong, I played slots, won on slots, and withdrew.

Ruby Fortune then requested my ID documents via email, which I provided. After some back and forth about what ID was required to process the withdrawal, I sent them a scan of my passport, along with some other documents. On November 25th, they then emailed to inform me that they would now require "certified copies" of my ID to process my withdrawal. This is currently in the process of being acquired. Then, on November 26th, I received this email:

"Hi there "X",

Account: "XX"

Following a review of your account, we have identified that you are in breach of the casino’s standard Terms.

Please refer specifically to the following clause:

7.6

...

Where a Sign-Up Bonus has been granted to you, subject to you being required to have met all wagering requirements, you will be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 6 times your first deposit amount and any remaining balance will be forfeited. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.

Please be advised that a withdrawal of 900.00 will be released upon approval of the requested documents. The remaining balance will be confiscated.

The Casino’s standard Terms can be viewed in full at: rubyfortune.com/en/terms-and-conditions/

Regards,
Operations Department"

First, the term which was identified (7.6, ) is the only term in their Ts and Cs that has no sub heading (I've taken a print screen as proof, should it be changed at any point) and is not in the bonus section where it surely belongs. Furthermore, I read the Ts and Cs before signing up (to avoid this kindof thing) and I did not see it. I recently looked into signing up at Lucky Nugget casino, and the same clause was in their Ts and Cs, so I asked their live chat, they gave a spluttering answer and I opted not to play. My point is: I read Ts and Cs specifically to find clauses like this, and I did not see it before playing. Second, not once did anyone their company mention this, and I was told I could withdraw the whole balance. They stalled on accepting my ID, then demanded certified copies, THEN sent the above email.

(On a side note, are clauses like this legal? "This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management." - This is a casino that advertises quite aggressively everywhere, including UK TV. I have never heard, or seen, any mention of this clause ANYWHERE, even after searching many resources on the internet (such as CasinoMeister) since receiving this email)

I have already contacted Ruby Fortune via live chat and email to try to sort this "internally" in a calm, respectful manner, but I have been told on several occasions the matter is final, and upon receipt of my certified copies of ID they will pay me 900GBP. I have contacted RF via email, live chat, and via their rep on here (who hasn't been active for 4 weeks) with either no response or a flat out "stonewall" that the matter is final and I have "breached" their terms. I informed RF of my plans to take this matter further, including bringing this to casinomeister for advice, and was told that that was my right and I was entitled to do so, as per their live chat rep. He told me the decision was final, but would send the request through to management again. I explained to him in full, that I would seek the help of such outlets as casinomeister in this matter, and would do everything in my power to settle my account, in full, in a mature, respectful and professional manner. I have since been informed, again, the matter is final.

Basically, I am looking for help/advice of any kind, this is just kindof a "cliffnotes", I have attempted to leave all subjectivity possible out of the matter. I have further things to add, should CasinoMeister be so gracious as to assist me. There are more details to this story, but I just want to put the "barebones" out there to discuss my options.

Sincerely
SMcS

All this is not necessary and you will get nowhere by publicizing your case.

Ruby Fortune are accredited here, you tried support, you tried contacting the rep. and you got no joy. Next step, if you want a resolution, is probably to file a PAB. I have never done a PAB but I have looked over the guidelines and I don't believe I ever saw where it said you were required to bring it up in the forums first.

I think the best bet would be to go here Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures read and understand how the process works and let Max do his thing.

If you decide to do that try to follow the guidelines for the best chance of a resolution and so Max doesn't yell at you.

 

[davos11]

And this from an accredited casino !

So yes they had it in there T's and C's , But if it was hidden away in a section it didn't really belong in then thats not fair ,
Also apart from these RTG casinos with 3/4/500% match bonuses i don't think i have come accross a casino before with a 100% match with a max cashout rule , especially at 6x , That is quite frankly disgusting !

I'm sure as others have said there completely within there rights to take your money and there is nothing you can do about it ,Just another case of underhanded tactics ,

Take your winnings and run and avoid them in the future , Based on what you have told me i won't play there again myself either !

 

[slottymcslot]

All this is not necessary and you will get nowhere by publicizing your case.

...

Hi, thank you so much for responding, it is much appreciated. I am new to this, read the guidelines and fell in line with the protocol as best as I felt I could. I was not sure what to do, whether I could filed a PAB, so I came here with "barebones" details to try and get some advice. I certainly don't want to be breaking any CM rules, or get yelled at by people that may be in a position to help me. If I have broken any rules, I am willing to remove whatever material is asked to be removed by CM admin. I am merely trying to ascertain what my position is in this situation.

 

[Tirilej]

That was the worst sign up bonus rule I've seen from an accredited casino.
Thanks for letting me know it even exist so I can avoid all the casinos in that group.

Please do a PAB and even if you can't get them to change their mind at least they maybe maybe can get to remove that rule.
Horrible

 

[dunover]

Agreed, it is a shockingly bad term but it IS there. You are being paid according to it, with the usual delaying tactics about docs hoping you'll reverse the 900. Not good behaviour from ANY casino IMO but especially not an accredited one. I won't say more because you allude to other bits of the story not present which may affect our opinions. Unfortunately they are playing the 'discretion' card and inevitably where there's 'discretion' there is discrimination. But, even if there is a 'cross' term in one part of the T&C's that affects another criteria like bonuses, you could have read them all and cleared it up with CS before playing. Now before you accuse me of being hard on this, I have some sympathy here because the term is to be frank, bollocks and is not one I would expect from a supposedly reputable group.
A PAB would be unlikely to get a better result as they are following terms, BUT it may establish WHY this 'discretion' wasn't applied in your favour, unless you already know or suspect from the bits you haven't related.

 

[hakapuku]

That was the worst sign up bonus rule I've seen from an accredited casino.
Thanks for letting me know it even exist so I can avoid all the casinos in that group.

Please do a PAB and even if you can't get them to change their mind at least they maybe maybe can get to remove that rule.
Horrible

There is one more accredited group applying this rule to bonuses: Jackpotcity,Luckynugget, RiverBelle etc. Actually , I think that Palace group copied it from them (word in word). So when playing slots with these bonuses one should pray God not to win too much. And if you try to play any other games than slots at those casinos- you will be called a professional gambler (or advantage player) and will not be paid anyway.

 

[slottymcslot]

Agreed, it is a shockingly bad term but it IS there. You are being paid according to it, with the usual delaying tactics about docs hoping you'll reverse the 900. Not good behaviour from ANY casino IMO but especially not an accredited one. I won't say more because you allude to other bits of the story not present which may affect our opinions. Unfortunately they are playing the 'discretion' card and inevitably where there's 'discretion' there is discrimination. But, even if there is a 'cross' term in one part of the T&C's that affects another criteria like bonuses, you could have read them all and cleared it up with CS before playing. Now before you accuse me of being hard on this, I have some sympathy here because the term is to be frank, bollocks and is not one I would expect from a supposedly reputable group.
A PAB would be unlikely to get a better result as they are following terms, BUT it may establish WHY this 'discretion' wasn't applied in your favour, unless you already know or suspect from the bits you haven't related.

Thank you for your very balanced, unbias response. What I allude to, and I guess I was purposefully unclear on this, was that I read the Ts and Cs in full BEFORE signing up and playing, and I did not see this 6x clause, hence why I mentioned Lucky Nugget, as I read their Ts and Cs, and saw this EXACT clause and for that reason did not signup to play there. Furthermore, this is the ONLY clause in their Ts and Cs that is not headed. I am trying to talks in pure facts and not subjectivity. I am not holding anything "back" per se, I am just trying to be careful and respectful of the situation as I want to resolve this with Ruby Fortune. They have told me several times the matter is final, so I have no choice but to seek other avenues. May I further add, if I have broken/stretched any rules by anything I've psoted in this thread, if a CM admin would inform me of what that is I will do so immediately.

Thank you again

 

[maphesto]

Just to let you know, in the swedish version of T&C:s the text about maximum withdrawal is gone.

Compare for yourself, I will bolden the text in the English version which os gone in the swedish one:

English version:

7.6

Players who withdraw a sum of money that is 5 times or more greater than their lifetime deposits across all The Palace Group casinos will only be able to withdraw their winnings at a sum of €4,000 per week. The remaining amount will be placed back in the player's account until such time that they are eligible for a further withdrawal. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.

Where a Sign-Up Bonus has been granted to you, subject to you being required to have met all wagering requirements, you will be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 6 times your first deposit amount and any remaining balance will be forfeited. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.

Swedish version:

7.6

Spelare som tar ut en summa pengar som är 5 gånger större än deras sammanlagda insättninger på alla casinon inom The Palace Group kommer endast att kunna ta ut deras vinster i omgångar om 4,000€ per vecka. Eventuell återstående summa kommer att återföras till spelarens konto för att invänta att denna uttagsgräns nollställs. Denna regel kommer endast att tillämpas efter beslut av casinoledningen. Alla progressiva vinster är undantag ifrån denna regel.

And now to the interesting part folks, according to wayback machine, this is how rule 7.6 looked like in the English version aug this year:

7.6

Players who withdraw a sum of money that is 5 times or more greater than their lifetime deposits across all The Palace Group casinos will only be able to withdraw their winnings at a sum of €4,000 per week. The remaining amount will be placed back in the player's account until such time that they are eligible for a further withdrawal. This clause will only be applied at the discretion of casino management. All progressive wins are exempt from this clause.

Rules changed nov 22... two days after OP signed up! They've added the thing about maximum withdrawal AFTER OP signed up!

 

[hakapuku]

Thank you for your very balanced, unbias response. What I allude to, and I guess I was purposefully unclear on this, was that I read the Ts and Cs in full BEFORE signing up and playing, and I did not see this 6x clause, hence why I mentioned Lucky Nugget, as I read their Ts and Cs, and saw this EXACT clause and for that reason did not signup to play there. Furthermore, this is the ONLY clause in their Ts and Cs that is not headed. I am trying to talks in pure facts and not subjectivity. I am not holding anything "back" per se, I am just trying to be careful and respectful of the situation as I want to resolve this with Ruby Fortune. They have told me several times the matter is final, so I have no choice but to seek other avenues. May I further add, if I have broken/stretched any rules by anything I've psoted in this thread, if a CM admin would inform me of what that is I will do so immediately.

Thank you again

I now checked the "wayback machine" website for the older version of the websites. I checked Rubyfortune first. The most recent version is dated August and the rule was NOT there at that time. But there is a bad news. I checked the same for Spin Palace casino (which is Ruby Fortune 's sister casinos and have same exact terms and conditions). And the version of Spin Palace website dated 2 of November DOES contain that rule.
You can check this information yourself at web.archive.org


Looking for info on Spin Palace? Check here!

 

[maphesto]

I now checked the "wayback machine" website for the older version of the websites. I checked Rubyfortune first. The most recent version is dated August and the rule was NOT there at that time. But there is a bad news. I checked the same for Spin Palace casino (which is Ruby Fortune 's sister casinos and have same exact terms and conditions). And the version of Spin Palace website dated 2 of November DOES contain that rule.
You can check this information yourself at web.archive.org

Spin Palace changed their rules in oct 28, Ruby Fortune changed them in nov 22...two days after OP signed up.

 

[hakapuku]

Spin Palace changed their rules in oct 28, Ruby Fortune changed them in nov 22...two days after OP signed up.

you could be right

 

[maphesto]

you could be right

Let's hope so! It's a discusting rule.

@OP

When did you send your message to their rep here?

 

[slottymcslot]

Spin Palace changed their rules in oct 28, Ruby Fortune changed them in nov 22...two days after OP signed up.

As I said, I wanted to avoid subjectivity, but I alluded to the fact I read the Ts and Cs before signing up and playing, and did not see this term. I confirm that I requested my withdrawal before November 22nd. I really want to remain respectful to reach an amicable conclusion, but I must admit I am biting my lip right now. THANK YOU maphesto so much.

 

[slottymcslot]

Let's hope so! It's a discusting rule.

@OP

When did you send your message to their rep here?

Today. I then emailed RF support, informing them I had contacted their rep here, and c/p'ed the body of my message I sent to them here. A few hours later I was replied to, saying that their decision remained final. Hence why I started this topic.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Apart from the obvious (PAB), the OP could raise this issue with their local Trading Standards. This rule could fall foul of UK consumer protection legislation, and as this term is now spreading widely among unconnected casino operators, it could be a "public interest" issue, rather than a case of individual vs business.

The weakness is that it's not a hard and fast term, but something the casino can decide to implement after the fact at their own discretion. Such terms are highly likely to be illegal under UK law as it is impossible for the terms to be "clear" to the consumer from the outset.

The earlier version was better, as it only implemented payment schedule rather than a one off payment. In this form, there would be much less chance of the term falling foul of UK consumer protection laws as in the end, full payment is made.

It is also a matter for the ASA, as there is a requirement for such a critical restriction to be drawn to the attention of the prospective customer in an up front manner, rather than buried in pages of "smallprint".

Unfortunately, complaints need to come from a victim in order to get the best response. Others could make Trading Standards and the ASA aware of the matter, with the ASA at least being able to issue a "change the ad" notice to the casino concerned. With the ASA, it would be the TV ad, or other internal UK promotion, rather than the Google ad, that would be judged for compliance. The ASA could not make them pay up, and Trading Standards could only ask them to reconsider, not force them to pay by any legal instrument.

In more general terms, online operators could be told this clause is not allowed under UK consumer protection laws, which would pave the way for players to take their own steps to recover the monies.

From December 2014, it will also be possible to complain to the UKGC. Currently, they would not be able to do anything, and would refer the player to the relevant licensing body.

 

[Cleveland]

As I said, I wanted to avoid subjectivity, but I alluded to the fact I read the Ts and Cs before signing up and playing, and did not see this term. I confirm that I requested my withdrawal before November 22nd. I really want to remain respectful to reach an amicable conclusion, but I must admit I am biting my lip right now. THANK YOU maphesto so much.

At this point follow bigjohn's advice and proceed with a PAB. Stop speaking on the topic in the open forums. Maphesto (or whoever I forgot that quick) gave you some solid ammo to move forward with. Use it, but stop speaking on it here. Since they are accredited, and you now know about the PAB process, don't risk hurting your case by continuing to discuss it in the open forums. Once you are aware of the PAB process it is part of the rules that you decide how you wish to proceed. If you need help clearing up any of the details concerning the info given to you by other members in this thread, send them a PM (private message).

Point is PAB -- **assuming you contacted the rep first** **and read the PAB rules / FAQ**

That's a good amount of money, and I will be the first to lol at you if one of the reasons your PAB fails or you're not allowed to PAB is because you chose to continue speaking about it in the open forums....even after multiple members told you not to or how to proceed. Just sayin

 

[slottymcslot]

At this point follow bigjohn's advice and proceed with a PAB. Stop speaking on the topic in the open forums. Maphesto (or whoever I forgot that quick) gave you some solid ammo to move forward with. Use it, but stop speaking on it here. Since they are accredited, and you now know about the PAB process, don't risk hurting your case by continuing to discuss it in the open forums. Once you are aware of the PAB process it is part of the rules that you decide how you wish to proceed. If you need help clearing up any of the details concerning the info given to you by other members in this thread, send them a PM (private message).

Point is PAB -- **assuming you contacted the rep first** **and read the PAB rules / FAQ**

That's a good amount of money, and I will be the first to lol at you if one of the reasons your PAB fails or you're not allowed to PAB is because you chose to continue speaking about it in the open forums....even after multiple members told you not to or how to proceed. Just sayin

Thank you so much for your advice/asistance in this matter, and everyone in this thread. I have now submitted a PAB and will comment no further on the situation. Any details pertaining to this situation that CM officials/admin would like/advise me to remove/delete, I will do so.

TY once more

 

[KasinoKing]

I have to agree with everyone else - this is a ridiculous rule and predatory as it does NOT appear in the T&Cs of the First Welcome Bonus, where it clearly belongs (if anywhere).

I'm pretty disgusted that an accredited casino would add such a rule and I only hope they wake up and remove this rule ASAP.

KK

 

[SlotsLover]

max withdrawal on deposit match bonuses

Once again, I would like to propose that a rule for accreditation is that there is no max withdrawal on a deposit match bonus. It's just not fair (on top of being hidden in the terms and conditions). As previously discussed, such a rule can drastically lower the RTP, maybe even into the 40s or 50s depending upon the variance of the machine. This is akin to a brick and mortar casino offering 15 -1 on a single number at roulette or a blackjack game where dealer wins on ties.

I'd like to start a poll on this, do I need special permission to do this and how is this done?

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[KasinoKing]

I'd like to start a poll on this, do I need special permission to do this and how is this done?

Nope!
Just start a new thread, but before posting look below the text box at the "Additional Options".
Select "Post a Poll" and away you go!
Please make sure you think out exactly which questions you want to ask before you start your post.

KK

 

[slottymcslot]

May I add, there doesn't appear to be an EDIT POST for me here. CM have my full permission to delete/remove anything I have posted in this thread that breaks any CM rules.

 

[rena35]

If you PAB im sure anything you wrote prior will not harm your case. GL

 

[lotusch]

Defo not a casinogroup I would EVER spend a dime.
What a bunch of clowns.

In what day and ago do they live?