[RESOLVED] CASINO US (VPL) REQUIRES PICTURE ID

[BingoT]

Most all motor vehicle depts do this for a fee of $10.00 and they are good for 3 years.
It's a State ID
And you don't need a licence to get one.

 

[winbig]

Most all motor vehicle depts do this for a fee of $10.00 and they are good for 3 years.
It's a State ID
And you don't need a licence to get one.

They're not in the USA, T

 

[BingoT]

They're not in the USA, T

What the hell they don't have a MVD.
That's right you don't need one if you live horse & buggy ways.

 

[RobWin]

What the hell they don't have a MVD.
That's right you don't need one if you live horse & buggy ways.

Nope, not horse and buggy ways,,,Nigel is living on disability allowance...

 

[zebedy]

Nope, not horse and buggy ways,,,Nigel is living on disability allowance...

whats wrong with a horse n buggy, least the manure keeps your hands warm it the winter

 

[RobWin]

whats wrong with a horse n buggy, least the manure keeps your hands warm it the winter

Nothing is wrong with a horse and buggy...I was making the point to bingot that there was a reason you didn't want to go get a photo ID because of the cost of the passport option you said was 72 and about a six week wait...right...and the fact that you draw a disability allowance...right,,,I'm purdy sure I got that straight based on all of your previous posts...correct !!!

 

[zebedy]

Nothing is wrong with a horse and buggy...I was making the point to bingot that there was a reason you didn't want to go get a photo ID because of the cost of the passport option you said was $72...right...and the fact that you draw a disability allowance...right,,,I'm purdy sure I got that straight based on all of your previous posts...correct !!!

you are correct rob,

i was joking manure, winter, hands warm, sorry bad joke

 

[BingoT]

whats wrong with a horse n buggy, least the manure keeps your hands warm it the winter

and also gives great fertilizer for your plants too.

 

[RobWin]

you are correct rob,

i was joking manure, winter, hands warm, sorry bad joke

 

[Rhyzz]

Do people not find it a coincidence that many gaming operators still request ID docs and copies of the card before allowing a cash-in?

Ladbrokes still do this, as do Betfair and Mansion, Goldenpalace, 32Red (not 100%) - it is a security issue for both Player and Business. If an operator is found to be allowing an underage person to profit from gambling, IE) Allowing a cashin without actively trying to prove their age, they will lose their license. It also helps prevent fraud, people don't realise just how rife it is in the industry and how easy it is for people to chargeback against these companies.

If you don't know the true reasons why a company does this then why 'bash' the process? It is CLEARLY a neccessity if such major companies are still doing it - those that don't are either paying a fortune for more high-tec methods of verification or are simply running the risk to provide a smoother experience for the player.

If you go to a land based Casino, they ask for ID - why is it so different for online operators? Please explain that to me....

 

[winbig]

IE) Allowing a cashin without actively trying to prove their age, they will lose their license. It also helps prevent fraud, people don't realise just how rife it is in the industry and how easy it is for people to chargeback against these companies.

But what I think a lot of people are having a problem with is just that. ID doesn't come into play UNTIL a cashout is requested when you're playing online. IMO allowing play by an underaged minor is made worse by accepting their wagers before it is proven that they are of legal age to play.

Sure, asking for ID helps prevent fraud, but by asking for ID before wagering, it would cut down on fraud even more. If someone (or a group) is signing up for the sole purpose of defrauding the casino, then I can guarantee that they already have their documents in order and will more than likely pass muster. Those are the ones you have to watch out for more.

Also, if the OP had simply lost, would VPL void all of their play and refunded their deposit because they thought that the person was underage? Of course not....they had no reason to ask for ID...


One of the many things that set B&M and online casinos apart is the fact that if you look to be under the legal gambling age, they will ask for your ID on the spot, and not let you wager a penny until you've proven your age.

 

[pacers31]

I'm not inciting or accusing anyone of anything CM. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of this requirement. Sorry if I don't agree with you, but I thought this was a forum for discussing these type things. If there is some requirement to agree with you before posting, please let me know and I will terminate my account here. This is suppose to be a watchdog site, not lapdog. Go ahead and do what you feel you must to me, but I am only speaking the truth and sometimes the truth hurts (apparently). See some of you guys at 3Dice.

 

[Casinomeister]

Do people not find it a coincidence that many gaming operators still request ID docs and copies of the card before allowing a cash-in?

Ladbrokes still do this, as do Betfair and Mansion, Goldenpalace, 32Red (not 100%) - it is a security issue for both Player and Business. If an operator is found to be allowing an underage person to profit from gambling, IE) Allowing a cashin without actively trying to prove their age, they will lose their license. It also helps prevent fraud, people don't realise just how rife it is in the industry and how easy it is for people to chargeback against these companies.

If you don't know the true reasons why a company does this then why 'bash' the process? It is CLEARLY a neccessity if such major companies are still doing it - those that don't are either paying a fortune for more high-tec methods of verification or are simply running the risk to provide a smoother experience for the player.

If you go to a land based Casino, they ask for ID - why is it so different for online operators? Please explain that to me....

Spot on - and I don't see what the issue is. Why is it so difficult to wrap one's head around this?

Sure, most people don't trust anything online - especially an online casino. It's taking years to gain people's trust, yet there are still craploads of crap joints that can't be trusted. So I don't blame people for being apprehensive.

The question "why not require this ID when signing up?" keeps popping up - and it has been answered ad nauseum - it would drastically slow down the sign-up process probably by days. Be honest - I would guess that 99% of you would skip that casino and go to one that doesn't require ID upfront.

I'm not inciting or accusing anyone of anything CM. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of this requirement. Sorry if I don't agree with you, but I thought this was a forum for discussing these type things. If there is some requirement to agree with you before posting, please let me know and I will terminate my account here. This is suppose to be a watchdog site, not lapdog. Go ahead and do what you feel you must to me, but I am only speaking the truth and sometimes the truth hurts (apparently).

There is nothing hypocritical about this requirement. These are businesses that are protecting themselves from fraud. If you have a better way to handle this, there are plenty of I-Gaming reps here that would probably be glad to hear you out if you could only drop the animosity and clichd responses.

 

[pacers31]

Regardless of what you say CM, they don't ask for it to get our money, where the biggest potential for fraud can occur (ie, stolen cards, etc). So it is hypocritical to worry about fraud when they are the ones putting out their cash! You accuse me of stirring things up, and yes, this is an issue that needs alot of stirring. Sorry you don't agree, but many folks agree that the procedure is flawed, even if you're not one of them. I wish you could see that asking for ID to get your money is wrong when they don't ask for the same when they take a deposit. On this issue, I don't think I'm the one with an agenda.

 

[1819]

i also happen to think that is abserd to ask for i.d. to prove who you are after money has been deposited and especially online where they would have no idea who we are. but.......if their processors, accountants, lawyers, whoever else requires them then it is what it is. if my lawyer asks something of me, whether i agree or not, i have to oblige. my biggest problem with the docs is the fact that you have to provide front and back of a cc that you used to deposit. there is no reason they need the security code on the back of that card. also sending these with non encrypted email or over overseas faxlines is begging for trouble but again...it is what it is.

 

[1819]

on a side note. davinci asked for docs for a cashout. they were faxed once, twice, three times. said they never got them. emailed once, twice, three times before they got them and approved them. where the hell are those 3 faxes with my friggin info on them? security? there is some janitor running around with my cc number im sure!! luckily i block out all but the last 4 numbers and blocked out my d.l. # and utility bill ac #.

 

[Casinomeister]

...You accuse me of stirring things up, and yes, this is an issue that needs alot of stirring. Sorry you don't agree, but many folks agree that the procedure is flawed, even if you're not one of them...

I never said it wasn't flawed - I pretty much expressed how it was and why it was.

Fine, if you want to stir things up - go ahead - but it's pretty much just a rant if you can't offer better solutions to deal with the ID thing. That's what I'm getting at.

 

[pacers31]

I understand what you are saying CM, the solution is to get this ridiculous ID thing out of the way up front. Don't take my money and then tell me I have to do tricks to get it back. I'm really not doing this just to piss someone off, it is a legitimate gripe and can easily be remedied by the casinos. The same casinos that will take a deposit without issue, but find ways to delay, disrupt or connive people out of their winnings. Not all by any means, but enough to cause this kind of an issue to recur. I do believe that you are a tremendous asset to all of us Bryan, I just have a different opinion on this whole security issue.

 

[pacers31]

sorry that post wasn't worded very well.

 

[RobWin]

Do people not find it a coincidence that many gaming operators still request ID docs and copies of the card before allowing a cash-in?

Ladbrokes still do this, as do Betfair and Mansion, Goldenpalace, 32Red (not 100%) - it is a security issue for both Player and Business.

If that were truly the case then the document check would be done "Pre-Deposit" AND NOT "Post-Deposit"

If an operator is found to be allowing an underage person to profit from gambling, IE) Allowing a cashin without actively trying to prove their age, they will lose their license.

But, "The Operator" Would Not lose their License for allowing that same underage person to Deposit & Wager ??? Doesn't seem to make much sense there....as a B & M casino would immediately do an ID Check when the player First walked thru the door if they looked underage because the Security Guards at a B & M casino always stand at the entrances of the casinos and Card Check anyone who looks too young to be in their establishment...

It also helps prevent fraud, people don't realise just how rife it is in the industry and how easy it is for people to chargeback against these companies.

It doesn't help prevent fraud in the least or chargebacks either for that matter,,,as anyone well knows that whether you win or lose, immediately after you have allowed the charge to go thru on your credit card you can do a chargeback with your credit card company....and there is absolutely not a thing in the world that the casino can do about the player doing a chargeback even if they have files upon files upon files of your documents.

If you don't know the true reasons why a company does this then why 'bash' the process?

It's not a matter of "bashing the process" but rather thoroughly questioning "The Process"...as this process should have been originally set up years ago at online casinos to Card and ID Check at the door as players sign up just like the same way B & M casinos have always done this...and if these online casinos ever want to be truly taken serious by the US Market and the New Regulations that are most likely forthcoming then they will have to start the process of Carding and ID Checking upfront, just like the B & M's do or they will never be taken serious by the advocates and legislature that is on their side for the future...

It is CLEARLY a neccessity if such major companies are still doing it - those that don't are either paying a fortune for more high-tec methods of verification or are simply running the risk to provide a smoother experience for the player.

This process you speak of has been out of date now for the past ten years and I will tell you why...if you go online and request a copy of your credit report or medical records or even apply for a credit card the verification process that the company then puts you thru can take anywhere from five to ten minutes to properly identify yourself by the questions that they ask you about your past...IE: Residence Address, PO Box Number, Past Employment, Spouses Name, Previous Phone Numbers, Past or Current Vehicles Registered in your name, etc. etc....and this Identification process has been in place and on offer to the online industry for at least the past ten years now...by companies such as Choice Point, National Data Search, Inc., EFD (ClearCommerce.com) and many, many others...

If you go to a land based Casino, they ask for ID - why is it so different for online operators? Please explain that to me....

Simply because the land based casino asks for your ID upfront if you appear to be underage and Not after the fact they have let you wager bets and you happen to win...and also in a land based casino you can gamble forever and also get paid thousands of dollars at different intervals without ever being checked for ID unless you look underage and that is done when you walk thru the door or the only other scenario where you would be required to show your ID would be if you had a slot jackpot win for $1,200.00 or more...

All of these online casinos that still continue to do things by way of paper trails that are so obsolete and un-secured as compared to their counterparts in other online industries will be dropping by the wayside when the MGM's and the Harrah's and others come online and use HTTPS Secure Protocol and other methods like I mentioned above for ID Verification...

 

[pacers31]

Couldn't have said it better myself Rob. When the US biggies get in with regulation, the off shores will have to really work to keep us. Why trust someone overseas when regulated, legal play is allowed. I guess my whole point is either ask up front, or don't ask at all. This would remove any shady looking activity by the the casino.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

If you go to a land based Casino, they ask for ID - why is it so different for online operators? Please explain that to me....

Not totally true at least in the state of Nevada in order to play (which happens to be the one State I can say this for sure but very well may be true in most States in the US)....As I recently posted, there are multiple compliance situations where an ID may be required (generally Federal law et more) but by the same token in fact you can also go to the Clark County clerk in Las Vegas and register an alias just in order to play anonymously iirc (do not use the alias in order to violate any laws i.e. fraud,compliance,yada,yada)....That said a casino can never simply require an ID in order to play as long as it is not a compliance issue. I often refuse when I walk into a casino off the street with my own green funds (no LOC) and then when I start betting a little higher than most per hand they usually ask for an ID. They want it so they strictly can get me in their snail mail and other marketing databases and I really do not want their marketing material and calls. Also most casinos will simply tell you ID is required and it simply is not by law. If ever Mr. Suit and his knuckle boys aka goons aka Casino Security,lol, (no disrespect Robwin intended) demand ID which they always will, you are not obligated under 99% of circumstances to provide ID although Security generally will lie to the contrary sometimes using heavy threats and intimidation. The limited few attorneys in casino patron abuse laws will generally recommend not to comply under your rights via law but sometimes it may generally be best to comply with the goons provided your constitutional and civil rights have not violated. That is usually is a patron's judgement call (assume the casino will let you exit without having violated any of your constitutional and civil rights). Otherwise, casino security ftr is not law enforcement and sometimes you may need to remind them, they may not being having a good day!

 

[Rhyzz]

Rob - some fair, debateable points. I personally understand the process and why it is necessary, as obviously does CM - most however just see it as an inconvenience.

You need to think of the process from a business point of view. The 'High Tec' methods of verification that I spoke of cost ALOT of money (maybe not in the US) - I'm talking hundreds of thousands of pounds per year. They then need to have permission to use them and to do this costs a great deal of money. In other words, you're asking these companies to spend (rough estimate for a medium sized casino) 5-10% of their gross income on verification tools when they can just ask a player to send them their ID and delay a cashout by 48 hours.

VISA and Mastercard recently joined forces to ensure any company of certain size take measures to protect a persons details and in particular, their contact information stored on a sites database - so security shouldn't really be an issue with these places. (Also, if you're sending copies of your credit card without blanking out at least 8 middle digits, you're a bit daft...common sense please?)

I agree, there are better ways of doing the same thing without the need to annoy players, but it isn't financially viable for these companies.

You also mentioned doing the ID process before a deposit - what's the point? If someone is going to chargeback or if they're underage then the casino will be coughing up anyway, only when the casino expects to be at a loss will they take measures to ensure a chargeback won't come through, or to make sure that someone isn't underage. I don't know what they do to make sure people who signup are older than the required age but I'm pretty sure they have systems in place.

It's pointless debating any further anyway, like I say, you have some good points and being someone who understands how these places operate I see their side of things.

 

[pacers31]

Rhyzz, I'm not sure that what you say is true. Besides, in an illegal transaction, their is no remedy to begin with. I find it hard to believe that the casinos have all this James Bond stuff you are talking about, suffice to say that I stand by my opinion on this matter as do many others. The solution is simple. Anyone who choses to allow deposits to be taken from their bank account or credit card with no questions asked should have funds returned with no questions asked. There is no good reason for this and most of us see that.

 

[zebedy]

i just wanted to say, i received the payment to my neteller account this morning so the matter has been resolved,

thanks VPL


and thanks to the members who offered there words of wisdom and help