Bonus Complaint LocoPanda

[dreamguardian1]

Just to keep everyone in the loop. I did submit a PAB on this with Max several months ago, but i never got his email so when I followed up with him via online here we got it fixed and updated the PAB to show the crap they tried to pull. While there may not be anything that Max can do, we are at least making it known that players are not going to tolerate being screwed over, lied to etc. I thank Max and Bryan for all of their hard work to keep the casino's and the player's honest.

Hugs

 

[Slotster!]

Why does it feel like some places will try and do the dodgy on what THEY think is an uninformed player who doesn't know to push an issue or think they are a member at a place like casinomeister. I mean this sounds like they literally tried to rip this player of his comp points but as soon as Max and B get involved they do a 180 and give the man his comps. In one aspect it goes to show you how much weight Casinomeister has in the online gaming world but the other side of this coin is how many people that DONT know about casinomeistger get ripped off by these types of casino's.

I mentioned this in another thread. That's exactly it.

There must be loads of places out there that pull all sorts of stunts, and mostly get away with it.

 

[Casinomeister]

Warning Signs:

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2012/

 

[Slotster!]

Warning Signs:

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2012/

Why not try our sister casino, MentalLlama?

Ridiculous.

 

[laneace44]

Wow, glad I saw this. I will surely be staying away from LocoPanda now, that's really messed up. Is it normal for a casino to not allow a user to post their username in a forum?

 

[Tirilej]

Wow, glad I saw this. I will surely be staying away from LocoPanda now, that's really messed up. Is it normal for a casino to not allow a user to post their username in a forum?

Why we shouldn't post it is for our own safety, not the casino, so that is just one made up rule.

Remember that there are more casinos in that group, and they are probably just the same.
Not trustworthy in my eyes.

 

[dreamguardian1]

Why we shouldn't post it is for our own safety, not the casino, so that is just one made up rule.

Remember that there are more casinos in that group, and they are probably just the same.
Not trustworthy in my eyes.

Well that was just the icing on the cake so to speak, the entire drama started when they blocked my account from comps and refused to give me an answer as to why which is when I had had enough and brought casinomeister in. I only posted my username once they closed the account and claimed violations which was not true and casinomeister under PAB terms was going to need proof that this was going on, the only way to do that was to post their own emails. The only way this was going to get resolved was to bring Casinomeister in on it and to make other players aware of the issues with them so they dont get screwed over. As an honest player i expect the same from the casino i dont care if they are located in Timbuktu.

 

[KasinoKing]

Tomorrow I will be at LAC and hope to see the people from this casino. If so, I will ask them what exactly went on in dreamgardian's case, cos right now I'm just confused!

KK

 

[Nifty29]

Tomorrow I will be at LAC and hope to see the people from this casino. If so, I will ask them what exactly went on in dreamgardian's case, cos right now I'm just confused!

KK

Well you have the email of the casino stating they won't pay because the player posted their username here....that should be enough to clear up any "confusion" I would think.

Are you going to reconsider promoting them based on this thread?

 

[mrmark21]

They remain determined to keep you as a player however deliberately make things hard for you? Not only is that just stupid, it's completely unethical business behavior.

 

[KasinoKing]

Well you have the email of the casino stating they won't pay because the player posted their username here....that should be enough to clear up any "confusion" I would think.

Where does it say they wont pay?
Unless I have missed something in my quick scan through the thread, the player had asked to have their account closed after using their comp points.
I don't think the player is owed any money by the casino.
@ Dreamgaudian: Do they owe you any cash?

KK

 

[Nifty29]

Where does it say they wont pay?
Unless I have missed something in my quick scan through the thread, the player had asked to have their account closed after using their comp points.
I don't think the player is owed any money by the casino.
@ Dreamgaudian: Do they owe you any cash?

KK

Well you're splitting hairs here.....comp points are EARNED via play and the player is entitled to them...they have no WR, and are the same as cash.

Anyhow, the most serious issue I would have as an affiliate is the disgraceful way in which DG has been treated....over what is a small amount of money. Experience tells me that if they do it to one, they will do it, and have done it, to another.

If your standards for promoting a casino are based solely on whether a cashout is paid or not.....then I guess I'm barking up the wrong tree, and I apologize for mentioning it. If they are also based on customer service and dispute resolution just as much (and they should be), then I don't understand why anyone would want to recommend them to their players.

 

[chuchu59]

Where does it say they wont pay?
Unless I have missed something in my quick scan through the thread, the player had asked to have their account closed after using their comp points.
I don't think the player is owed any money by the casino.
@ Dreamgaudian: Do they owe you any cash?

KK

The Finance dept. did say the disclosure of the username to casinomeister is a breach of their terms and which becomes a security issue. This paves the way for them to deny payment though they havent specifically said so yet. Loco Panda should be avoided for this reason alone.

 

[Nifty29]

Dreamguardian

Did the casino give you a specific reason for not re-opening your account?

Was it related to something in your past? Perhaps a chargeback or something like that? Casinos have very good databases for that kind of thing and it's easy to tell if there has been that kind of thing happening at another casino.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The Finance dept. did say the disclosure of the username to casinomeister is a breach of their terms and which becomes a security issue. This paves the way for them to deny payment though they havent specifically said so yet. Loco Panda should be avoided for this reason alone.

The odd thing is, far from denying payment, they say they are going to refund all past deposits to the card, even though they have paid winnings in the past based on this.

I suspect the "security issue" has nothing to do with the disclosure of the username, but more to do with the threat of "legal action", and they don't want the courts anywhere near this, hence they "bribe" the player by refunding all deposits back to the card, hoping the problem will go away. The fear may have something to do with UIGEA, and possible investigation into the processing pathways being used.

All this over a trifling 1500 comp points and a player who does not take, let alone "abuse", their huge offers.

I expect the comps were pursued on principle, not because of their worth. The casino should have realised this, made as little fuss as possible, and let the player lose the trifling sum back to the house. They could then have closed the account, and I doubt much fuss would have been made by the player as the earlier jerking around probably ensured they didn't want to come back in any case.

 

[Nifty29]

The odd thing is, far from denying payment, they say they are going to refund all past deposits to the card, even though they have paid winnings in the past based on this.

I suspect the "security issue" has nothing to do with the disclosure of the username, but more to do with the threat of "legal action", and they don't want the courts anywhere near this, hence they "bribe" the player by refunding all deposits back to the card, hoping the problem will go away. The fear may have something to do with UIGEA, and possible investigation into the processing pathways being used.

All this over a trifling 1500 comp points and a player who does not take, let alone "abuse", their huge offers.

I expect the comps were pursued on principle, not because of their worth. The casino should have realised this, made as little fuss as possible, and let the player lose the trifling sum back to the house. They could then have closed the account, and I doubt much fuss would have been made by the player as the earlier jerking around probably ensured they didn't want to come back in any case.

Ermmm...what?

Geez Vinyl. Every single issue in the forums doesn't have to be about "legal issues".

Where in this thread does it even suggest that the casino is trying to "avoid the courts". You have no idea why they refunded the deposits, but it seems pretty standard to me. You really do draw some long bows sometimes. Im sure the casino has it's own counsel who are legally trained and not backyard lawyers.


My information has it that there is more to this than meets the eye, and certainly has nothing to do with trying to avoid legal action.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ermmm...what?

Geez Vinyl. Every single issue in the forums doesn't have to be about "legal issues".

Where in this thread does it even suggest that the casino is trying to "avoid the courts". You have no idea why they refunded the deposits, but it seems pretty standard to me. You really do draw some long bows sometimes. Im sure the casino has it's own counsel who are legally trained and not backyard lawyers.


My information has it that there is more to this than meets the eye, and certainly has nothing to do with trying to avoid legal action.

This seems far from standard to me. This was an issue about a small number of comps that resulted in the casino making a huge fuss. When the player closed the account they refused to do this at first, but no sooner does the issue get esclated to here, and possibly the PAB process, they refund ALL deposits, even ones they have paid out on in the past.

This is well away from standard, which would be to close the customer's account and that be the end of it. "Standard" is not volunteering the refund of thousands in deposits, it usually has to be the player asking for their return as part of the resolution of a dispute.

It was the OP that finally made this a "legal issue".

Dec 13 (3 days ago)

to Finance
After using my comp-points today, i noticed that my account was ALSO exclused from doing coupons including the WEREBACK 45 and still compoints. I want this account CLOSED. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. I am tired of the runaround with your company and i have good accounts with other companies, i dont need nor do I want the drama with your company any further. If you continue to penalize players for winning, you wont have any. I was and continue to be a good and honest player. You guys can play your games with someone else becaues my accounts with other casino's are better and they have customer service who actually cares about their clients. It took me getting casinomeister involved for you guys to even restore them after almost a year that is not acceptable and neither is what you are doing to your players. I thank god that there are places and people like casinomeister around who are honest and have a level of integrity that your company apparently does not have. If you do not close this account effective immediately you can count on my attorneys making sure this account gets closed.

to Finance
Obviously you missed the memo CLOSE MY DAMN ACCOUNT. Also, i am posting this email on casinomeister. I am making sure that everyone knows that your company is a scam. You exclused my account from redeeming comp points after i hit a big win, then after 12 months of complaining and getting Casinomeister involved you redeem my comp points and then you restrict me from also using coupons. WHICH I DONT USE< but thats not the point, point is your casino is a sham and you lost an honest good customer. If the account is not closed as per my original email to finance i will file a legal motion to make sure it gets closed and use every legal and congressional remedy i know.

.. and the following week we get:-

Dear Brian,

Due to an administrative decision and security reasons your account has been deactivated, your deposits refunded to your credit card and your playable balance reset.

It may take up to 10 business days for the refund to appear on your account. Therefore, we kindly ask you to keep in touch with your card issuer to acknowledge the exact date when the funds will appear on your account.

Best regards,

Finance Department
Loco Panda Casino

THIS is what it took for them to close the account. Before this, they REFUSED to close the account despite the OP asking for this to be done. Instead, they tried to convince the OP to play without bonuses, something he was doing in any case.

Now, they have a US player talking about getting their attorneys and congress involved to FORCE them to close the account. This scares them into not just closing the account, but refunding the deposits that broke UIGEA provisions, a refund the OP didn't ask for nor want, and does not believe appropriate given that the money was lost fairly.

Don't they know a BLUFF even when it bites them in the ass

Do they SERIOUSLY believe a US player is going to tell his congressman that he made deposits to an "illegal" online casino, and even if so, that the Congressman will have sympathy for the player. The most likely scenario is that such an appeal would give the FBI something to investigate in the form of a processing trail, and this could shut them down for good, and have the owners indicted.

We have already had testimony from US players who have sought help over dodgy online casinos, and in one case the result was a "tough luck" and "consider yourself lucky we didn't go after YOU as well as the processor concerned". The US authorities WANT people to get screwed over and not manage to get any redress, it will put them, and others, off playing online.

They also seem to believe that refunding the deposits will get them off the hook - it won't, UIGEA has already been broken, and they are still an "illegal" online casino taking US deposits from other players. They just wasted several thousands of "hush money", assuming of course that this wasn't just more BS.

The OP now has the upper hand, as they have been asked to contact the casino when the money arrives back on the card. The OP can therefore exact revenge by doing absolutely nothing, accepting that at last their account has been closed, and let Loco Panda go "Loco with worry" when they never hear back that the money has arrived on the card.

 

[Nifty29]

This seems far from standard to me. This was an issue about a small number of comps that resulted in the casino making a huge fuss. When the player closed the account they refused to do this at first, but no sooner does the issue get esclated to here, and possibly the PAB process, they refund ALL deposits, even ones they have paid out on in the past.

This is well away from standard, which would be to close the customer's account and that be the end of it. "Standard" is not volunteering the refund of thousands in deposits, it usually has to be the player asking for their return as part of the resolution of a dispute.

It was the OP that finally made this a "legal issue".





.. and the following week we get:-

Dear Brian,

Due to an administrative decision and security reasons your account has been deactivated, your deposits refunded to your credit card and your playable balance reset.

It may take up to 10 business days for the refund to appear on your account. Therefore, we kindly ask you to keep in touch with your card issuer to acknowledge the exact date when the funds will appear on your account.

Best regards,

Finance Department
Loco Panda Casino

THIS is what it took for them to close the account. Before this, they REFUSED to close the account despite the OP asking for this to be done. Instead, they tried to convince the OP to play without bonuses, something he was doing in any case.

Now, they have a US player talking about getting their attorneys and congress involved to FORCE them to close the account. This scares them into not just closing the account, but refunding the deposits that broke UIGEA provisions, a refund the OP didn't ask for nor want, and does not believe appropriate given that the money was lost fairly.

Don't they know a BLUFF even when it bites them in the ass

Do they SERIOUSLY believe a US player is going to tell his congressman that he made deposits to an "illegal" online casino, and even if so, that the Congressman will have sympathy for the player. The most likely scenario is that such an appeal would give the FBI something to investigate in the form of a processing trail, and this could shut them down for good, and have the owners indicted.

We have already had testimony from US players who have sought help over dodgy online casinos, and in one case the result was a "tough luck" and "consider yourself lucky we didn't go after YOU as well as the processor concerned". The US authorities WANT people to get screwed over and not manage to get any redress, it will put them, and others, off playing online.

They also seem to believe that refunding the deposits will get them off the hook - it won't, UIGEA has already been broken, and they are still an "illegal" online casino taking US deposits from other players. They just wasted several thousands of "hush money", assuming of course that this wasn't just more BS.

The OP now has the upper hand, as they have been asked to contact the casino when the money arrives back on the card. The OP can therefore exact revenge by doing absolutely nothing, accepting that at last their account has been closed, and let Loco Panda go "Loco with worry" when they never hear back that the money has arrived on the card.

Online gambling is NOT illegal in the US. Just ask the DOJ.....the wire act only covers sportsbook betting, and the UIGEA only has penalties for BANKS that ALLOW gambling transactions. Players can't be prosecuted under the Act IIRC.

Loco Panda are NOT an illegal online casino

The OP is making a stink to divert attention away from WHY they had a problem in the first place. Notice how quiet they are now?

You really should leave the legal assessments and opinions to those who are legally qualified and educated. You seem to think operators just go around blindly making commercial decisions.....they all have lawyers and are aware of what they can and cannot get away with.

I would truly love to see the supreme court case involving the OP suing for $15 worth of comp points.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Online gambling is NOT illegal in the US. Just ask the DOJ.....the wire act only covers sportsbook betting, and the UIGEA only has penalties for BANKS that ALLOW gambling transactions. Players can't be prosecuted under the Act IIRC.

Loco Panda are NOT an illegal online casino

The OP is making a stink to divert attention away from WHY they had a problem in the first place. Notice how quiet they are now?

You really should leave the legal assessments and opinions to those who are legally qualified and educated. You seem to think operators just go around blindly making commercial decisions.....they all have lawyers and are aware of what they can and cannot get away with.

I would truly love to see the supreme court case involving the OP suing for $15 worth of comp points.

The OP was NOT going to sue over the comps, but over the refusal to close their account.

It is only relatively recently that the DoJ has conceded the point that gambling itself is not illegal. Homeland Security didn't get the memo, as it was they who pressured a citizen to "shut up" rather than press for an investigation and return of their money that had been caught up in some mess. They also said "we could have gone after your house...." to this complainant, something they couldn't do for violations of UIGEA, and something they must have known.

So, the lawyers in this case advised them to refund all deposits to a card merely because the player had made a fuss on principle over 1500 comp points. This does not wash. The fact that they resisted closing the players' account on request means they had no problems with the player at that time, so obviously no suspicion that they were a fraud or under age, the most obvious things that could make their lawyers advise the return of deposits.

They only changed their tune when the OP started talking about involving their attorney or even Congress to force them to agree to close the account. Suddenly, they go from wanting the player to carry on playing to closing their account because of "security" and refunding all past deposits. If their lawyers were any good, they would have said "don't worry too much, it's a bluff, just do what he asks and close the account".

Clearly, they KNOW they are taking a risk over being caught out by the US authorities, and so seem prepared to sacrifice significant sums of money to prevent an even bigger loss due to any kind of legal action leading to interest from the DoJ or FBI.

 

[Nifty29]

The OP was NOT going to sue over the comps, but over the refusal to close their account.

It is only relatively recently that the DoJ has conceded the point that gambling itself is not illegal. Homeland Security didn't get the memo, as it was they who pressured a citizen to "shut up" rather than press for an investigation and return of their money that had been caught up in some mess. They also said "we could have gone after your house...." to this complainant, something they couldn't do for violations of UIGEA, and something they must have known.

So, the lawyers in this case advised them to refund all deposits to a card merely because the player had made a fuss on principle over 1500 comp points. This does not wash. The fact that they resisted closing the players' account on request means they had no problems with the player at that time, so obviously no suspicion that they were a fraud or under age, the most obvious things that could make their lawyers advise the return of deposits.

They only changed their tune when the OP started talking about involving their attorney or even Congress to force them to agree to close the account. Suddenly, they go from wanting the player to carry on playing to closing their account because of "security" and refunding all past deposits. If their lawyers were any good, they would have said "don't worry too much, it's a bluff, just do what he asks and close the account".

Clearly, they KNOW they are taking a risk over being caught out by the US authorities, and so seem prepared to sacrifice significant sums of money to prevent an even bigger loss due to any kind of legal action leading to interest from the DoJ or FBI.

So you're sufficiently legally trained and experienced to assess whether a lawyer is "good" or not?

Right.

 

[vinylweatherman]

So you're sufficiently legally trained and experienced to assess whether a lawyer is "good" or not?

Right.

As a consumer, and them charging £150 an hour, I have to be in order to get value for money.

Besides, you (and I) are ASSUMING that this is the result of Loco Panda getting legal advice from their lawyers. It could simply be management making it up as they go along, and getting worried that they are out of their depth. They don't really need good lawyers, as they would not actually turn up at court, and would probably ignore any judgement that didn't suit them. For most US facing casinos, it is a case of never letting the directors or owners stray into US territory, and they can more or less do what they like. The law that matters to Loco Panda is that of the jurisdiction that gave them a license, but they get to choose that.