Hello and can you help a PhD student of Gambling?
- Thread starter carjaw
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- Dec 24, 2006
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- Cleveland, Ohio
The problem is most gamblers are compulsive liars
Hey! Compulsive gamblers are compulsive liars. Gamblers just lie when they need too!! LOL:
I found it unusual when i first came across the findings of Wood and Williams (2007) who state that gamblers over self-report gambling expenditure - 2.1 times higher than industry revenues! For me, important is the proportion of gambling revenue derived from problem gamblers - figures for research are tentative due to methodological problems and the mismatch between reported expenditures and actual gambling revenue. However, using improved methods for assessing the prevalence of problem gambling and the accuracy of self-reported gambling expenditures, the study of Wood and Williams estimated that the 4.8% of problem gamblers made up approximately 36% of gambling revenue (though this proportion varied as a function of game type, with a lower proportion for lotteries, instant win tickets, bingo, and raffles, and a higher proportion for horse racing and slot machines). But gamblers do make very bad research participants - and that's when you CAN get them to take part !!
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Location
- NOT Pennsylvania!!!
I can't believe for a minute that gamblers badly over-estimate their losses if that is what you mean. This goes against all human nature. Who in their right mind is going to claim they have lost twice as much as they really have. If I am reading this right this is a joke!
I have read a few newspaper stories about employee's who have gambled away colossal sums stolen from their firms. A common thing they have said is that they didn't realise how much they had gambled and that it had escalated out of control. I think this is plausable in that it can spiral out of control very quickly if you start chasing losses in a big way.
A major problem with your figures is how do you define 'problem gambler'? It is equally hard to know what a 'high roller' is. These terms get bandied about but what do they mean? Another one that makes me laugh is at what point do people become 'professional gamblers'. Do you have to get appointed to that position?
What is gambling and what is a problem gambler? How do you know a problem gambler from a professional gambler?
I have read a few newspaper stories about employee's who have gambled away colossal sums stolen from their firms. A common thing they have said is that they didn't realise how much they had gambled and that it had escalated out of control. I think this is plausable in that it can spiral out of control very quickly if you start chasing losses in a big way.
A major problem with your figures is how do you define 'problem gambler'? It is equally hard to know what a 'high roller' is. These terms get bandied about but what do they mean? Another one that makes me laugh is at what point do people become 'professional gamblers'. Do you have to get appointed to that position?
What is gambling and what is a problem gambler? How do you know a problem gambler from a professional gambler?
I understand what you are saying and I quoted one source as more reputable than me - but many many studies have found that gamblers over self-report the amount they spend and lose. Regarding the defintion of problem gambler (without going on and on - ) they are self-identified - so they present and say I am having a problem with my gambling - I think maybe an issue is that there are many kinds of problem - and they will vary from person to person. For some people spending / losing 10 a day would really be a problem because for them it is unaffordable - I was speaking to somebody recently who has started playing one penny bingo games and so she can play 100 games for a pound - but her problem is that she couldnt / cant break away from the computer and so now frequently is not picking up her 3 kids from school (aged 4, 7 and 9) so for her that is a problem - but I quite agree with your comments!
For most individuals, gambling is a social activity enjoyed in moderation. Social gambling (which I call in my study - recreational) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as "gambling which lasts for a limited amount of time with predetermined acceptable losses" (APA, 1994, p. 617). However, for some, gambling becomes a compulsion, an activity which is carried out in the face of negative consequences. The official definition of pathological gambling, as defined in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th Edition (APA, 1994) is as follows: "Pathological Gambling: Persistent and recurrent maladaptive gambling behaviour that disrupts personal, family, or vocational pursuits."
It is definied as an impulse-control disorder characterised by persistent and maladaptive gambling, indicated by such signs and symptoms as being preoccupied with gambling; needing increasing amounts of money to achieve the desired level of excitement; attempting repeatedly and unsuccessfully to cut down or to stop gambling; becoming restless or irritable while desisting from gambling; using gambling as an escape from worry or unhappiness; attempting to recoup gambling losses by further gambling; lying to family members or counsellors to conceal the extent of gambling; committing illegal acts such as fraud or theft to finance gambling; jeopardising a significant job, personal relationship, or educational opportunity by gambling; or relying on others to relieve financial crises caused by gambling. Problem gambling is an overwhelming desire to gamble even though there may be negative consequences or a desire to stop, it may also be known as compulsive gambling which is a much more clinical term - there is only one universal definition of Problem Gambling which was coined in Australia - "Problem gambling is characterised by many difficulties in limiting money or time spent on gambling which leads to adverse consequences for the gambler, others, or for the community." Regarding the defintion of a professional gamblers - then that person's gambling falls into the definition of a business - and in the US with the declaration of tax (normally at the rate of 25% over wins of $5,000) however the situation is different in the UK. The abolition of betting tax for gamblers in 2001 and the growth of internet gambling have revolutionised the industry and opened the door to a new breed of gambler, who is choosing it as a career.
It is definied as an impulse-control disorder characterised by persistent and maladaptive gambling, indicated by such signs and symptoms as being preoccupied with gambling; needing increasing amounts of money to achieve the desired level of excitement; attempting repeatedly and unsuccessfully to cut down or to stop gambling; becoming restless or irritable while desisting from gambling; using gambling as an escape from worry or unhappiness; attempting to recoup gambling losses by further gambling; lying to family members or counsellors to conceal the extent of gambling; committing illegal acts such as fraud or theft to finance gambling; jeopardising a significant job, personal relationship, or educational opportunity by gambling; or relying on others to relieve financial crises caused by gambling. Problem gambling is an overwhelming desire to gamble even though there may be negative consequences or a desire to stop, it may also be known as compulsive gambling which is a much more clinical term - there is only one universal definition of Problem Gambling which was coined in Australia - "Problem gambling is characterised by many difficulties in limiting money or time spent on gambling which leads to adverse consequences for the gambler, others, or for the community." Regarding the defintion of a professional gamblers - then that person's gambling falls into the definition of a business - and in the US with the declaration of tax (normally at the rate of 25% over wins of $5,000) however the situation is different in the UK. The abolition of betting tax for gamblers in 2001 and the growth of internet gambling have revolutionised the industry and opened the door to a new breed of gambler, who is choosing it as a career.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
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- Bexhill on sea, England
One more suggestion!Thank you KasinoKing - for somebody who is doing a PhD - Im not very bright am I? I would never have thought of that - shame on me!
You sig as it is now doesn't mean anything to anyone - it just looks like a random link.
Why not put this in front of it; "Take the survey: www...."
love2winalot
Dormant account
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2009
- Location
- Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Gambling
Hiya. hehehehe, Here in Vegas, there are Casino's everywhere. What actually surprises people that move here, is that there are Slot Machines everywhere. At the Airport, Bus station, Super Markets, Gas Stations, even at the corner 7-11's.
When i moved here 10 years ago, i saw a guy cash his check, maybe $400, and walk up to the roulette table, look at the display, "red, red, red, " and bet all his check he just cashed on Black. "3 Red". "Damm", and he walked away. I thought what an Idiot. Then i saw it happen again, and again, and again..........
Managing Apartments, I lost count of how many people i evicted, that lost their rent mony at a casino, or store with slots/vp machines. Not extra money..........not gas money.........not even food money........BUT THEIR RENT MONEY.
If this happens at real Casino's then you know it happens On line. Why do you think Visa/MC won't let people use their card to deposit with? Don't they want the interest of the money the guy just deposited into the Casino? Why do ALL Funding places allow, "Instant Transfers", when the money does not come out of the Bank Instantly?
imhop: There is nothing wrong with Gambling. There is nothing wrong with Losing, it's gonna happen. But What are you losing? Putting Needed Money at Risk, and then continuing to do so, is where it becomes wrong. Not being able to learn you lesson, and making the same mistake over n over again, is where it stays wrong.
It is like running up a big dept on your visa cards. Going into a dept repayment program, and 2 years later, paying off the last card. Hooray....But.....then saying, "Look, we have $24,000 available on our credit cards, Lets go spend it all".??????? hehehe
Hiya. hehehehe, Here in Vegas, there are Casino's everywhere. What actually surprises people that move here, is that there are Slot Machines everywhere. At the Airport, Bus station, Super Markets, Gas Stations, even at the corner 7-11's.
When i moved here 10 years ago, i saw a guy cash his check, maybe $400, and walk up to the roulette table, look at the display, "red, red, red, " and bet all his check he just cashed on Black. "3 Red". "Damm", and he walked away. I thought what an Idiot. Then i saw it happen again, and again, and again..........
Managing Apartments, I lost count of how many people i evicted, that lost their rent mony at a casino, or store with slots/vp machines. Not extra money..........not gas money.........not even food money........BUT THEIR RENT MONEY.
If this happens at real Casino's then you know it happens On line. Why do you think Visa/MC won't let people use their card to deposit with? Don't they want the interest of the money the guy just deposited into the Casino? Why do ALL Funding places allow, "Instant Transfers", when the money does not come out of the Bank Instantly?
imhop: There is nothing wrong with Gambling. There is nothing wrong with Losing, it's gonna happen. But What are you losing? Putting Needed Money at Risk, and then continuing to do so, is where it becomes wrong. Not being able to learn you lesson, and making the same mistake over n over again, is where it stays wrong.
It is like running up a big dept on your visa cards. Going into a dept repayment program, and 2 years later, paying off the last card. Hooray....But.....then saying, "Look, we have $24,000 available on our credit cards, Lets go spend it all".??????? hehehe
you are right winalot but do you think it is easier to gamble online? In the UK the Gambling Act (Septe 2007) made gambling a lot easier here - ie instant registration at a land-based casino and instant play - but online is it just made even easier ? Easier to gamble? Easier to play? Easier to get into trouble? Easier to get a problem? I am just looking at safeguards - though if they work, what they do - that's a long way off. This is from my next paper:
During the last two decades, as Internet access expanded into workplaces and homes, gamblers have been introduced to a new realm of gambling opportunities. Traditional gambling products, available in land-based venues, soon appeared in an online form and are easily accessible with an Internet connection and credit card. Internet casino games, slot machines, bingos, lotteries, sports betting, horse race betting, and skill games are all now readily accessible, with new forms of gambling and new ways of remote gambling, including games consoles, 3G mobile phones and interactive television continually being added. The British Government has taken steps to implement and regulate Internet gambling opportunities and whilst there are a number of economic and political incentives for them to do so, it is vital to gain a more complete understanding of the social costs and risks of this endeavour. One area of concern is the difficulty in restricting access to prohibited individuals, as well as the prevalence of online gambling by these individuals (i.e., underage gamblers, voluntary self-excluders, gambling site employees, and intoxicated individuals). A second area of concern is evidence suggesting that Internet gambling attracts problem gamblers, or perhaps has a greater propensity to create problem gamblers. A pilot study found a 42.7% prevalence rate of problem gambling among 1, 920 people accessing an online gambling portal (Wood & Williams, 2004).
This is the kind of way my study is going ....
During the last two decades, as Internet access expanded into workplaces and homes, gamblers have been introduced to a new realm of gambling opportunities. Traditional gambling products, available in land-based venues, soon appeared in an online form and are easily accessible with an Internet connection and credit card. Internet casino games, slot machines, bingos, lotteries, sports betting, horse race betting, and skill games are all now readily accessible, with new forms of gambling and new ways of remote gambling, including games consoles, 3G mobile phones and interactive television continually being added. The British Government has taken steps to implement and regulate Internet gambling opportunities and whilst there are a number of economic and political incentives for them to do so, it is vital to gain a more complete understanding of the social costs and risks of this endeavour. One area of concern is the difficulty in restricting access to prohibited individuals, as well as the prevalence of online gambling by these individuals (i.e., underage gamblers, voluntary self-excluders, gambling site employees, and intoxicated individuals). A second area of concern is evidence suggesting that Internet gambling attracts problem gamblers, or perhaps has a greater propensity to create problem gamblers. A pilot study found a 42.7% prevalence rate of problem gambling among 1, 920 people accessing an online gambling portal (Wood & Williams, 2004).
This is the kind of way my study is going ....
love2winalot
Dormant account
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2009
- Location
- Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Online Casino's
Hiya. One of the biggest differences between most online Casino's, and real ones, are the table limits are a lot lower on the internet. It is also a lot harder to deposit large sums of money into a on line Casino. This is by their choice in part to keep you short funded at the table.
A few years ago, the MGM, and Station Casino's, here in Vegas were to set up On-Line operations on the Isle of Mann. They did not do so, stating, "Over Regulation". The State of Nevada looked into making On-Line Gambling Legal in this state, and having On-Line operations. Can you imagine how much money they would make? Hmmmm, Buy in at HooBoo 3rd world casion, or MGM in Las Vegas? What one would you trust more?
It did not pass into law. Not because it was wrong. Not because Nevada is a goody 2 shoe state. The one and only reason it did not pass was, "How to verify the AGE of the player at the PC." When it becomes easier to use facial reconition software/hardware, Do not be surprised if Nevada tells the other 49 states to go @%#* themselfs, and have On-Line Casions running from Nevada.
Remember, a lot of people who gamble on the internet do not have any sort of easy access to a real Casino. Also, it is legal in most places to Gamble at 18, but you have to be 21 in Vegas to Gamble.
Yes, once in a while, a pit Boss will check some guys passport at the table, he is 20, has gambled for 2 years back home, and is told, "Welcome to Vegas" but you can not Gamble here.
Hiya. One of the biggest differences between most online Casino's, and real ones, are the table limits are a lot lower on the internet. It is also a lot harder to deposit large sums of money into a on line Casino. This is by their choice in part to keep you short funded at the table.
A few years ago, the MGM, and Station Casino's, here in Vegas were to set up On-Line operations on the Isle of Mann. They did not do so, stating, "Over Regulation". The State of Nevada looked into making On-Line Gambling Legal in this state, and having On-Line operations. Can you imagine how much money they would make? Hmmmm, Buy in at HooBoo 3rd world casion, or MGM in Las Vegas? What one would you trust more?
It did not pass into law. Not because it was wrong. Not because Nevada is a goody 2 shoe state. The one and only reason it did not pass was, "How to verify the AGE of the player at the PC." When it becomes easier to use facial reconition software/hardware, Do not be surprised if Nevada tells the other 49 states to go @%#* themselfs, and have On-Line Casions running from Nevada.
Remember, a lot of people who gamble on the internet do not have any sort of easy access to a real Casino. Also, it is legal in most places to Gamble at 18, but you have to be 21 in Vegas to Gamble.
Yes, once in a while, a pit Boss will check some guys passport at the table, he is 20, has gambled for 2 years back home, and is told, "Welcome to Vegas" but you can not Gamble here.
I dont want to be a pain ............ but I still need gambling website users to take part in my study if you could spare 10 minutes - I would be very grateful - as only regular site users know what is really useful and really useless when it come to features to control play -
Regarding the low wagers for online gambling, in Britain a penny per online bingo game has taken off I would say in the last 6 months - a really affordable way to have a flutter online - I dont suppose anybody would worry if somebody loses just a few pennies here and there but does it lead to playing with larger amounts?
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Location
- NOT Pennsylvania!!!
Then you are heading in the wrong direction!
Who are these Wood and Williams and their absurd data from 2004? Online gambling barely existed in the UK market in 2004. Only a few people were playing then and the advertising and sponsorship deals that were to come a year later had barely taken place. These figures are highly suspect and also very dated.
There never has been and currently is not a problem with online gambling. The proportion of online problem gamblers is certainly less than that offline. If there were so many problem gamblers online how come all the major operators are only making fairly modest profits from their online operations?
Just look at this clip:
15th April 2008
By David Snook
The British Government has set up a Working Party to examine the issue of slot machines and particularly of fixed odds betting terminals.
The FOBT Working Party, as it is now known, has asked for comments from interested parties on the current state of the gaming industry and its immediate prospects and the effect of the implementation of the Gambling Act 2005.
FOBTs in particular have caused some concern as they are used extensively in bookmakers shops to gamble on roulette and other games.
It is estimated that 1.4bn of the 2.5bn income for the Government's Tote betting business comes from FOBTs.
The reason why these machines are much more profitible than online gaming is they have a much higher house advantage. Some of the virtual racing games (or cartoon racing as it is known as in the industry) has a HA of nearly 20% which is outright theft. These machines also have much more of a captive audience. The online player can easily shut one casino and open another but if you are in a small town there are often only a couple of bookies to choose from. Also in smaller towns one firm will sometimes dominate, there are four William Hill's in my town for example but no Ladbrokes.
Online gaming is a very competitive industry and the player can play at a much lower house advantage. This tends to attract a different type of gambler, one who is looking for entertainment rather than gambling. Many online players do not expect to be long term winners but enjoy the games and the chance of a huge jackpot.
Players at land based casinos are more likely to gamble bigger because a sense of anticipitation gets created. The atmosphere of a casino is designed to get players into a state where they are more likely to gamble. This is also possible online but the crucial difference is the player does not get into the same state because the experience is available 24/7 365 days of the year. So far from this availability posing a problem as you assert it is in fact a reason why players will have less problems online than with other media. Instead of an occasional adrenaline fuelled blowout at a land based casino players are able to play in a controlled manner in their own homes.
If you do have any evidence of a growth of problem gamblers online then I would be interested to see it. But I would really look at 2006 to now as that is when the major growth took place in the UK.
Richard Wood is British and Robert Williams is Canadian - so that is one point dealt with. Regarding more information supporting claims that online gambling is creating more problem gamblers I will get back to you. Wood and Williams either in their report in 2004 or 2007 report that problem gamblers infact do prefer the traditional, land-based gambling environments to online ones; I think that the argument is that the setting of the online environment such as 24/7 gambling, the anonymity factor, in the privacy of your own home, possibly uninterrupted - has the propensity to create more problem gamblers. Regarding FBOT's - I was only the other day speaking to an industry figures (from the responsible gambling side) who confirmed what you argue that there is a significant rise of FBOT problem gambling coming through their doors, particularly amongst young men. I really appreciate your comments - Thankfully my PhD makes me focus within the parameters of online gambling and to explore the responsible gambling features that do exist for social gamblers who feel that maybe their gambling is getting out of control Mr Geezer - you dont have any suggestions of how to get more users of gambling websites involved in my online survey do you ?
- Joined
- May 29, 2004
- Location
- England
Just 1 point i'd like to add. I think you are more anonymous in a Vegas casino than you are online. You don't have to register or anything in the US land casinos. 24/7 is definately an issue - i guess one way to measure that is to look at people living in Vegas. Do they gamble higher than the average because they live there? Or is it over-exposed to them?
I know that many studies have found that there is a high rate of problem gambling amongst the population within a 10km radius of a casino than normal levels. What is not determined is whether it is because a) casinos cause problem gamblers amongst the population of that community by its presence or b) problem gamblers move to be nearer casinos. However, I am having enough trouble with the content of my study - I think I would lay naked in the snow if I could get a 100 gambling website users to take part in my survey
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Location
- NOT Pennsylvania!!!
Guess this weakens my arguments a little 
This week saw the culmination of a criminal case against a Scots book-keeper who fed an Internet gambling obsession by stealing almost a million pounds sterling from his employers (see previous InfoPowa reports) last year.
Twenty-six-year-old Chris Proudfoot was convicted of taking GBP 936 452.32 over three years to pay off his gambling and credit card debts, and sentenced to 40 months in jail. None of the cash has been recovered.
Prosecutor Ron Phillips told Inverness Sheriff Court that the scale of Proudfoot's breach of trust was "monumental" and unprecedented. "There has never been a dishonesty of this scale which has come before a sheriff court for sentencing," he claimed
Proudfoot was such a trusted employee at Inverness telecoms firm HIGHnet that he was given sole control of the company's accounts and banking, and he was found to have used his privileged position to steal from the business more than 50 times since 2004. Evidence showed that he used bogus invoices to steal GBP 260 000 in the first year, GBP 390 000 in the second and GBP 277 000 in the third. The embezzeler did not even know the extent of his thefts until the investigating police officers told him after his arrest.
Passing sentence, Sheriff Ian Abercrombie told Proudfoot he should have gone to jail for 5 years, but his sentence was reduced because he'd pleaded guilty, had shown remorse and was basically a first offender.
Dave Siegel, managing director of HIGHnet, said only the company's strong finances had saved Proudfoot's workmates from losing their jobs because of the huge cost of his fraud.
"We feel the sentence is appropriate. My family and our employees have worked extremely hard over 15 years to grow HIGHnet. This individual abused his position of trust and responsibility with no regard for the company or his former colleagues," he added.
This week saw the culmination of a criminal case against a Scots book-keeper who fed an Internet gambling obsession by stealing almost a million pounds sterling from his employers (see previous InfoPowa reports) last year.
Twenty-six-year-old Chris Proudfoot was convicted of taking GBP 936 452.32 over three years to pay off his gambling and credit card debts, and sentenced to 40 months in jail. None of the cash has been recovered.
Prosecutor Ron Phillips told Inverness Sheriff Court that the scale of Proudfoot's breach of trust was "monumental" and unprecedented. "There has never been a dishonesty of this scale which has come before a sheriff court for sentencing," he claimed
Proudfoot was such a trusted employee at Inverness telecoms firm HIGHnet that he was given sole control of the company's accounts and banking, and he was found to have used his privileged position to steal from the business more than 50 times since 2004. Evidence showed that he used bogus invoices to steal GBP 260 000 in the first year, GBP 390 000 in the second and GBP 277 000 in the third. The embezzeler did not even know the extent of his thefts until the investigating police officers told him after his arrest.
Passing sentence, Sheriff Ian Abercrombie told Proudfoot he should have gone to jail for 5 years, but his sentence was reduced because he'd pleaded guilty, had shown remorse and was basically a first offender.
Dave Siegel, managing director of HIGHnet, said only the company's strong finances had saved Proudfoot's workmates from losing their jobs because of the huge cost of his fraud.
"We feel the sentence is appropriate. My family and our employees have worked extremely hard over 15 years to grow HIGHnet. This individual abused his position of trust and responsibility with no regard for the company or his former colleagues," he added.
survey help
I am here to ask any site / visitors / members if they could spare ten minutes or less to take part in my survey which is trying to investigate effective responsible gamlbing features. I really am a PhD student!! and I have set up an online survey which is trying to identify features which gamblers think would be useful for persons who feel that their gambling is becoming a problem. I am not asking you to take part in this survey because I have a problem with you guys, or that I think all gamblers are problem gamblers - it is because I think you might have a greater familiarity and understanding of useful features in a site than I do because you are more familiar with the internet gambling environment. Academics have suggested many features which they think are useful for problem gambling but this does not consider the opinions of people who take part in gambling. The survey is not perfect and the literature in my research explains some of the limitations - however it is one survey to cover many different kinds of online gambling. Any thoughts you may have - I would really appreciate hearing.
I am here to ask any site / visitors / members if they could spare ten minutes or less to take part in my survey which is trying to investigate effective responsible gamlbing features. I really am a PhD student!! and I have set up an online survey which is trying to identify features which gamblers think would be useful for persons who feel that their gambling is becoming a problem. I am not asking you to take part in this survey because I have a problem with you guys, or that I think all gamblers are problem gamblers - it is because I think you might have a greater familiarity and understanding of useful features in a site than I do because you are more familiar with the internet gambling environment. Academics have suggested many features which they think are useful for problem gambling but this does not consider the opinions of people who take part in gambling. The survey is not perfect and the literature in my research explains some of the limitations - however it is one survey to cover many different kinds of online gambling. Any thoughts you may have - I would really appreciate hearing.
402
Just to let anyone / everyone know - the responsible gambling features survey has received 402 responses in the last 50 days. Some interesting results but I would pre-empty the conclusions just yet! Thank you to anyone / everyone who has been able to take part. For anyone / everyone interested - the survey is live until mid July 2009. Many thanks as always.
Just to let anyone / everyone know - the responsible gambling features survey has received 402 responses in the last 50 days. Some interesting results but I would pre-empty the conclusions just yet! Thank you to anyone / everyone who has been able to take part. For anyone / everyone interested - the survey is live until mid July 2009. Many thanks as always.
[Max says: originally posted as yet another separate thread. Merged with this one, as always. 
]
Let me tell you a little more about my work. The view of GA - that the only solution is abstinence has been considered carefully and is fully examined in my work - if not reflected in the survey (which forms only a part of my study). Gamblers are the lifeblood of casinos, online, offline, bookmakers, bingo, online and offline - the whole range. But there is all that classical theory stuff .... ethics, that stakeholders must be protected, CSR is of course a valuable component in business these days. Is being responsible in the gambling industry as profitable as being socially responsible in the coffee bean industry. A coffee buyer can buy coffee beans (I know I am going off the point here but bear with me.... ) for 24 (US cents) but coffee buyers can choose to pay approx $1.41 to $1.61 for Fairtrade coffee beans - knowing that at the price the farmer gets a fair price, can educate his children and replant the land (sustainable farming). Why pay 6 times as much for the coffee beans? Fairtrade coffee sales hit the half a billion pounds mark 2007-2008 - people wanted their coffee to be ethical, socially responsible. I am trying to examine these issues - particularly with relevance to the demand in the UK Gambling Act 2005 - that operators with a UK licence are socially responsible and promote responsible gambling. Part of my work indeed will look at the gambling industry and discuss whether this industry can and should be responsible. Can certain industries have no or little social responsibility? And then I bring in the focus of the 300,000 or so (give or take 100,000) players who are experiencing problems with their gambling - what - if anything can be done - will/do any of the responsible gambling features that are in use - work? If so - for who - If not - what can the indsutry do about it - seeing as they sign up to e-Cogra or the IGC - all industry groups advocating responsible gambling. So my survey may just be important to me - and it is not possible to discuss the theories contained in 200,000 words - but what i need is to hear comments like yours in my survey - and to consider everything I think (?) I know about my topic and offer conclusions and recommendations at the end of my work based upon what gamblers, ex-gamblers, social gamblers, problem gamblers, counsellors, family and friends of gamblers, etc etc say - and pay particular reference to academic studies - and see if there is agreement or significant differences
Merged with this one, as always. ]Let me tell you a little more about my work. The view of GA - that the only solution is abstinence has been considered carefully and is fully examined in my work - if not reflected in the survey (which forms only a part of my study). Gamblers are the lifeblood of casinos, online, offline, bookmakers, bingo, online and offline - the whole range. But there is all that classical theory stuff .... ethics, that stakeholders must be protected, CSR is of course a valuable component in business these days. Is being responsible in the gambling industry as profitable as being socially responsible in the coffee bean industry. A coffee buyer can buy coffee beans (I know I am going off the point here but bear with me.... ) for 24 (US cents) but coffee buyers can choose to pay approx $1.41 to $1.61 for Fairtrade coffee beans - knowing that at the price the farmer gets a fair price, can educate his children and replant the land (sustainable farming). Why pay 6 times as much for the coffee beans? Fairtrade coffee sales hit the half a billion pounds mark 2007-2008 - people wanted their coffee to be ethical, socially responsible. I am trying to examine these issues - particularly with relevance to the demand in the UK Gambling Act 2005 - that operators with a UK licence are socially responsible and promote responsible gambling. Part of my work indeed will look at the gambling industry and discuss whether this industry can and should be responsible. Can certain industries have no or little social responsibility? And then I bring in the focus of the 300,000 or so (give or take 100,000) players who are experiencing problems with their gambling - what - if anything can be done - will/do any of the responsible gambling features that are in use - work? If so - for who - If not - what can the indsutry do about it - seeing as they sign up to e-Cogra or the IGC - all industry groups advocating responsible gambling. So my survey may just be important to me - and it is not possible to discuss the theories contained in 200,000 words - but what i need is to hear comments like yours in my survey - and to consider everything I think (?) I know about my topic and offer conclusions and recommendations at the end of my work based upon what gamblers, ex-gamblers, social gamblers, problem gamblers, counsellors, family and friends of gamblers, etc etc say - and pay particular reference to academic studies - and see if there is agreement or significant differences
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Hi carjaw,
Just a few things.
If you are conducting research for an advanced degree (MBA, MFA, Ph.D, etc.), you need to bone up on your English. Specifically your paragraph structure, punctuation and grammar. Your above post is just one heaped together paragraph - which is a no go, even for an undergrad.
To be honest, I didn't bother reading it.
If you want people to take what you have to say seriously, then please work on the presentation of your ideas.
Also, please do not exploit this forum for your own rewards. I would appreciate it if you would participate in other topics besides your own. Thank you.
Just a few things.
If you are conducting research for an advanced degree (MBA, MFA, Ph.D, etc.), you need to bone up on your English. Specifically your paragraph structure, punctuation and grammar. Your above post is just one heaped together paragraph - which is a no go, even for an undergrad.
To be honest, I didn't bother reading it.
If you want people to take what you have to say seriously, then please work on the presentation of your ideas.
Also, please do not exploit this forum for your own rewards. I would appreciate it if you would participate in other topics besides your own. Thank you.
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I believe the issue was you were derailing other threads to further your own research, instead of keeping it in the same thread which you started.
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__Our__ problem, as in more than one of us, as in read the comments you're getting and you'll see. If you're taking notes, try this:
- post hijacking: not cool.
- cross-posting: not cool.
- crappy grammar: unimpressive, though admittedly you'll have to get in line to get spanked for this one.
- big long smunched-together posts that ramble on and on and on and make your wish that whitespace was mandatory so people could figure out what the heck you're saying which is, don't know sometimes because of the big long smunched-together posts that ramble on and on and on, perhaps you get the idea.
- pissy attitude when folks try to help you out.
- assuming that our boards are here for your agenda. WTF?
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This "horse" is dead, no amount of flogging it, even by starting out with a new "whip" is going to make it race again.
When contributing to other threads, do as in "Fawlty Towers" style, and say to yourself "Don't mention the survey" within "eyeshot" of the "table" containing Casinomeister members.
You have a link to your survey in your signature; this is fine. EVERY time you contribute elsewhere, your survey gets yet another plug simply by being featured in your signature.
402 may not be a big sample, but it may represent close to 100% of the membership here who intend to participate.
If you get banned, you have ZERO chance of further exposure for the survey.
This thread is one in which this survey is being discussed, and adding to it will keep bumping it into visibility, and will not incurr the wrath of members since it would be "on topic".
There have been many surveys on this subject, and maybe some members are suffering "survey fatigue", and have filled in the big eCogra one, and left it at that.
Lack of participation MAY also be down to the structure, ease of navigation, and questions asked. Can you see how many people clicked through to your survey, but then decided not to take part?
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I didnt bother clicking I made a comment in this thread an got a unruly email from them an Bryan is right all they care about is their dang survey
Cindy
Cindy
Thank you for your comments. I went to Aspers casino last night and had a smoked salmon and brie sandwich with coffee - very nice. Survey fatigue is a problem - but there is very little research looking at harm minimisation measures and online gambling. Perhaps my study - perhaps - will have something to say - who knows. I am also, very very pleased with the number of responses and thankful to the respondents who spent a few minutes.
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You should get hold of the results of the eCOGRA survey from earlier. This was different, but nevertheless related to online gambling. Much of the analysis has been done for this, and I believe the eCogra website will have the results. This research was done in conjunction with another UK university - can't remember which one off hand.
Beware of bias. Different forums attract different types of online gambler, and you risk getting not only a small sample, but a biased one. If you then try to extrapolate the results to represent the entire population of online gamblers, you could find that other academics will question your results, and be able to "embarrass" you with some very searching questions and counterpoints. The industry too will attack you if your results show them in a bad light (in other words, show the truth in too much detail
). When it comes to research revealing serious shortcomings in an industry with deep pockets, the fight can sometimes get "dirty", so you will need to ensure your conclusions are robust enough to withstand anything that can be thrown at it.
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Carjaw you can be a pain at times but I do respect the fact you are at least passionate about what you are doing.
One thing that did irritate me was you constant posting of the survey on MoneySavingExpert, a forum that has nothing to do with gambling whatsoever. I am concerned a number of people there did respond to your survey which can only jeopardise it's integrity. It was a crass move posting on there and to me only demonstrates the lack of understanding you have at times about this subject. You are not going to find problem gamblers on MSE!
One part of your research I would be interested in is access to credit for gamblers. Has it ever occurred to you that the major cause of increases in problem gambling is not primarily the gaming companies but the banks?
The gaming companies are such an easy target but what about the banks and all the people they have bankrupted thanks to their unsecured loans and 125% mortgages?
It is these same banks that are the root cause of problem gambling. Even now after the credit crunch I am getting offers about twice a week from banks of loans and credit cards. If these banks that have practically ruined the UK were properly regulated none of this crazy credit expansion would have happened and the gambling problem would be far far smaller. It is the banks that have a gambling problem. We will be paying for their foolishness for the next 10 years.
One thing that did irritate me was you constant posting of the survey on MoneySavingExpert, a forum that has nothing to do with gambling whatsoever. I am concerned a number of people there did respond to your survey which can only jeopardise it's integrity. It was a crass move posting on there and to me only demonstrates the lack of understanding you have at times about this subject. You are not going to find problem gamblers on MSE!
One part of your research I would be interested in is access to credit for gamblers. Has it ever occurred to you that the major cause of increases in problem gambling is not primarily the gaming companies but the banks?
The gaming companies are such an easy target but what about the banks and all the people they have bankrupted thanks to their unsecured loans and 125% mortgages?
It is these same banks that are the root cause of problem gambling. Even now after the credit crunch I am getting offers about twice a week from banks of loans and credit cards. If these banks that have practically ruined the UK were properly regulated none of this crazy credit expansion would have happened and the gambling problem would be far far smaller. It is the banks that have a gambling problem. We will be paying for their foolishness for the next 10 years.
I am familiar with the eCogra report - and some parts of it have been very helpful for my study. Regarding postings in other locations - they have received the approval of supervising staff at the university and each location for me, has its own purpose - Regarding if I have considered the responsibiities of banks - yes - and I suppose - it will always be impossible to reveal all in shortish posts on a forum. Before the survey (only part of the research method of course) there was about 4 years of a previous Masters and thw first couple of years of thePhD making myself familiar with the studies that exist - and I have spent much analysis on if the studies that look at traditional gambling environments can be applied to the online one. There are limitations in my research, which I recognise, but you must not think that this is an attempt to embarrass the industry or to be critical of the gambling community. It is much more at attempt to examine the issue to responsibility in gambling - could there ever be, as an example, an ethical bookmaker? Do some industries - not have to be socially responsible -do players want a high level of responsibility - is it possible to have responsible gambling - what about responsible gambling features - do they work? But - I have got the flu and typing each key is a strain - and I have to go half way round the country to take my young son to play a rugby match - so I am not up for trouble today. thank you as always for your comments. Hopefully the person highly distressed by my grammar and spelling and slang usage and everything else - will give me a break today.
i dont know if my post has not been published been published for another reason relating to my normal bans or perhaps i did not click the submit button because i dont know what i am doing suffering from joint aching, muscle weakening, body failing flu. Just the post contained my thanks for the comments made above. I am aware of the eCogra Nottingham Trent study and I have found it very helpful. Information that posting at MSE has received approval from the professors who supervise PhD research. And that this research is not intended to be negative towards the gambling industry nor players. The bigger picture really is whether or not social responsibility can apply to all industries - or are there industries and for some reason or another social responsibility is not a key driver. Research indicates that SMEs tend not to have a great take up of CSR - I am wondering if there is anything such as an ethical bookmaker. Is responsible gambling possible? Is it desired by the industry's stakeholders? And if so - why? And if it is not desirable - why? Anyway - thanks again for taking the time to comment.
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Or how about the credit card companies that strike deals with Colleges that allow them to not only come on campus to give out credit cards to students that have no clue about finances and once they graduate, in addition to the tens of thousands of dollars they'll be in debt for student loans, they'll also be in debt for thousands thanks to credit cards....
And I'm sure that some of that CC debt will be related to gambling online...
And I'm sure that some of that CC debt will be related to gambling online...
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carjaw, your posts are currently being moderated - this is why you will not see them immediately after submitting them. Rest assured that they will show up eventually.
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Well, thanks to a power outage, my whole post is lost. So I'll try again, and make it short and sweet. The responsibility lies with the gambler/player/drinker/addict..etc.
The man who is sober buys a fifth from a liquor store. He drinks 1/2 of the bottle prior to getting home, as well as hits a car head on killing 3 people. Does the surviving family sue the store for selling the liquor?
A gun is used by a 10 year old, which he found in Daddy's closet. Do you sue the gun manufacturer?
An addict in a rehab facility has drugs smuggled into him and dies of an overdose. Do you sue the rehab facility?
A gambler walks into a land casino with 100K in his pocket. All that his family has. He gambles it all and loses. Do you sue the casino?
Understanding that each person holds the responsibility for his/her own actions is the key. There is help for every addiction you can find. And much of it available online. Does that person seek the help or not? Up to the person.
I found this at one of the gambling websites, and think it is the view of most reputable online casinos:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Responsible Gaming
PLAYER PROTECTION AND RESPONSIBLE GAMING
IMPORTANT:
While most players at an online casino or poker room
gamble for entertainment and within their means,
a small percentage of players remain who may lose
control of themselves and their play. In order to prevent this, please bear the following in mind:
* Gambling should be entertaining and not seen as a means to making money
* Keep track of the amount of money you spend and only gamble what you can afford to lose. Do not chase your losses
* Keep track of the amount of time you spend gambling.
RESPONSIBLE GAMING POLICY
While most people gamble for social enjoyment, Fortune Lounge casinos acknowledges that gambling can possibly create problems and harm certain individuals. These problems can range from over-spending to a pathological gambling addiction. Fortune Lounge is committed to creating a responsible gaming environment by implementing and maintaining eCOGRA's responsible gaming requirements for the benefit of both players and staff.
SELF-ASSESSMENT TEST
Why not try our quick self-assessment test? If you have ever been worried about gaming problems or are just curious to check the results, please complete this questionnaire. Once complete, please hit the 'Submit' button and your results will appear within seconds.
ASSISTANCE FOR PROBLEM GAMBLING
Should you require any assistance or advice on problem gambling, please contact one of the help lines listed below.
Gamblers Anonymous
USA
National Council on Problem Gambling
1-800-522-4700
Hot Line Number for Northern California 1-800-287-8670
Hot Line Number for Greater L.A. Central 310-478-2121
Hot Line Number for Palm Springs 760-325-2808
Hot Line Number for Greater San Diego 1-866-239-2911
Gam-Anon, International Service Office
718-352-1671
Compulsive Gambling Institute
1-800-GAMBLER
Council of Compulsive Gambling of New Jersey
1-800-GAMBLER
or 1-800-426-2537
Massachusetts Council on Compulsive Gambling
1-800-426-4555
Connecticut Council on Problem Gambling
1-800-34-NOBET
NICOS Chinese Health Coalition Problem Gambling
1-888-968-7888
(Mandarin and Cantonese)
UK
Gamblers Anonymous
08700 50 88 80
Canada
Ontario Problem Gambling Helpline
1-888-230-3505
PLAYER PROTECTION MEASURES
Fortune Lounge is committed to assist you in enjoying your play with us. There are many options available to help you, including reducing your deposit limits to restrict your spending or self-exclusion from our Casinos for a limited period. Please contact our Customer Care Center for more information and any assistance that you may require.
PROCEDURES FOR SELF-EXCLUSION
If you feel that you are losing control of your play and would like help in restricting your access to our Casinos, Fortune Lounge offers you the following options:
A minimum 24 hours cooling off period
A minimum 6 month self-exclusion period.
Please contact us any time, day or night, for immediate assistance.
FILTERING OPTIONS
Please note that the minimum age of persons able to register and play at our Casinos is 18 years. Should you require a filter to block gaming websites from any underage persons, please visit the following sites for more information on how this can be implemented:
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---------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the online casinos have a tab labeled "responsible gaming". There is something on each site I've been to this morning that allows a player to have this information on compulsive gambling.
Back in the 1990's I ran into a gambling problem with myself. I talked to my wife about it (a retired counselor) and her first suggestion was to close all of the gambling accounts. I wrote to each casino and told the problem and asked them to close the accounts immediately. As I remember, only one casino (no longer in business) told me to feel free to ask to re-open at any time. All of the accounts, however, were closed within hours. Most within minutes of receiving my email.
My wife suggested you might change your study from having the casinos be responsible for the problem gambler, to what is the individual/family/community doing to deal with the problem. Those you live with in your home, community, social clubs are the root for the gambler's help. The casinos are a business. They are there to make money. YOU have to take the first step into the casino, or the first click into the casino, as the case may be. However, should you take the step to stop, there are policies in all casinos, land or online, that can be implemented at THE PLAYER'S REQUEST.
By the way, I've never seen exactly in what field your PhD will be. What field is it?
Rambeno
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Firstly thank you for your comment. Secondly, the field of my work is ethics. Full information regarding the work is available on the first page of the survey, accessible without registration or the provision of personal details and would give you the details you may wish to peruse. I dont believe that I do hold the operator solely accountable for responsible gambling; I do believe that all stakeholders are accountable for the industry. Creating a positive social change in the corporate world is not necessarily a new phenomenon and questions regarding the nature, scope and impact of organisations have been present in various forms for centuries, ranging across the medieval, mercantile, industrial and corporate eras. CSR has become ubiquitous in both research and business practice (Maak, 2008). CSR is used as an umbrella term to describe much of what is done in terms of ethics-related activities in firms around the globe to such an extent that some consider it a tortured concept. Operators do provide a range of responsible gambling features and I am very interested in how effective or useful users of gambling sites find them. Regarding other areas of my research, such as interviews discussing responsible gambling with social gamblers, who love every minute of their play and experience no problems with their gambling are equally important in my study. The online survey is the broadest of all my research methods, and I was hoping that I would get a statement from respondents of what they think about these harm minimisation measures provided by operators, in many cases on a voluntary basis under the responsible gambling umbrella. But the question - is responsible gambling possible is dealth with separately, ie not in the remit of the online survey. Thank you again for your comments.
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Carjaw I hope you are feeling better now. I like the fact that you are trying to change things.
Ethics - I think the credit crunch has made people think about a lot of stuff like this. Capitalism has flaws. Maybe that Marx guy was not so wrong after all. It is amazing to think that just as China and Russia embrace capitalism it goes so badly wrong.
There were a lot of ethical people in London yesterday - maybe you were one of them?
Ethics - I think the credit crunch has made people think about a lot of stuff like this. Capitalism has flaws. Maybe that Marx guy was not so wrong after all. It is amazing to think that just as China and Russia embrace capitalism it goes so badly wrong.
There were a lot of ethical people in London yesterday - maybe you were one of them?
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Carjaw I hope you are feeling better now. I like the fact that you are trying to change things.
Ethics - I think the credit crunch has made people think about a lot of stuff like this. Capitalism has flaws. Maybe that Marx guy was not so wrong after all. It is amazing to think that just as China and Russia embrace capitalism it goes so badly wrong.
There were a lot of ethical people in London yesterday - maybe you were one of them?
Ethics - I think the credit crunch has made people think about a lot of stuff like this. Capitalism has flaws. Maybe that Marx guy was not so wrong after all. It is amazing to think that just as China and Russia embrace capitalism it goes so badly wrong.
There were a lot of ethical people in London yesterday - maybe you were one of them?
Tank you for enquiring about my health - and no - i am not really much better I feel as rough as a badger's bum. No I wasnt in London. But please despite the gentle nature of your comment - you mustnt think that I am trying to change anything about my work! I have come too far to change where I am with my work but it is part of the bigger picture (the macro level) whereas what users of gambling sites think about responsible gambling features (the micro level) is how it translates to how sites look and behave. I still have much work to do (obviously) and the question about ethics and internet gambling is unanswered - but it I still hold out hopes for my survey being able to provide me with some answers even with its limitations.
Too afraid to ask for anyone who hasnt contributed their thoughts to my survey to do so - definitely too afraid to contribute to anyone else's thread for fear of hijack accusations - but my flu has gone and i am presenting a paper at Bristol university tomorrow about the how successful or not I think regulation of the online industry has been - specifically i argue that the global nature makes any regulation ineffective. Hopefully when this dangerous posting has been approved by the moderator - it will see the light of day
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In my opinion, posts such as your last one are the very reason your comments are being moderated. Throwing in unnecessary sarcasm isn't going to make the mods consider whether to lift this restriction.
As for 'fear of participation', you presumably know a good amount about gambling if you have chosen to base your PhD on it, so there must be plenty of other threads you could contribute to? Even if it is merely welcoming new members. It's this sort of participation which Bryan is looking for to make him feel you are not merely using the forum for your own needs. I'm sure you can easily distinguish replies which are relative to a particular thread, and those of which derail it by asking for someone's views on your study
As for 'fear of participation', you presumably know a good amount about gambling if you have chosen to base your PhD on it, so there must be plenty of other threads you could contribute to? Even if it is merely welcoming new members. It's this sort of participation which Bryan is looking for to make him feel you are not merely using the forum for your own needs. I'm sure you can easily distinguish replies which are relative to a particular thread, and those of which derail it by asking for someone's views on your study
I do feel that I have tried to contribute to other threads and every time I get accused of hijacking other people's work and so I am best left in this little thread feeling sorry for myself. I honestly dont see why i have had to wait for 2 days to see a posting appear but there we are - such is life - and in part this punishment has arisen because i have been found guilty of hijacking other people's threads. I might not be anyone's cup of tea but i am not so bad as to want to spoil anyone else's thread. I now have had 603 responses to my survey which is fantastic - to any casinomeister forum members who have taken part - i am very grateful. i would like to publish my acknowledgement to the forum and I shall have to work with forum administrators and moderators to see what would be acceptable. 2009 late summer i hope to publish my results here but i wont be publishing the PhD until winter 2010 or spring 2011 - although that seems very far off right now.
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Interesting study:
The director of the Harvard Medical School's Addictions Department, Dr. Howard Shaffer, has some interesting views on Internet gambling, backed by an extensive study of problem gambling that includes access to a wealth of practical data from the giant European online gambling group Bwin. Harvard and Bwin have been collaborating on the research and development of a better understanding of responsible gambling for some time.
In a recent Youtube insert, Shaffer revealed that, contrary to often unsubstantiated assertions by anti-gambling organisations, the level of problem gambling has stayed almost static despite major increases in US gambling generally over the past two decades. In fact, the incidence of problem gambling among the population has declined slightly from the levels experienced in the 'seventies - from 0.7 percent back then to 0.6 percent today.
And dire predictions that the wider availability of gambling generally would lead to a substantial increase in gambling related disorders had not materialised.
Recent surveys in the USA had shown a considerable demand for online gambling among punters in that country, despite legislative attempts to restrict the pastime, he said.
The impact of Internet gambling has been of particular interest to the expert, who comments: "The very first thing we learned, which we didn't expect, was that the vast majority, the overwhelming majority, of gamblers online gamble in a very moderate and mild way."
Shaffer opines that prohibitive approaches to Internet gambling are unlikely to be effective, but that education, public awareness programs, and truth in advertising regulation all can help keep gambling safer.
The director of the Harvard Medical School's Addictions Department, Dr. Howard Shaffer, has some interesting views on Internet gambling, backed by an extensive study of problem gambling that includes access to a wealth of practical data from the giant European online gambling group Bwin. Harvard and Bwin have been collaborating on the research and development of a better understanding of responsible gambling for some time.
In a recent Youtube insert, Shaffer revealed that, contrary to often unsubstantiated assertions by anti-gambling organisations, the level of problem gambling has stayed almost static despite major increases in US gambling generally over the past two decades. In fact, the incidence of problem gambling among the population has declined slightly from the levels experienced in the 'seventies - from 0.7 percent back then to 0.6 percent today.
And dire predictions that the wider availability of gambling generally would lead to a substantial increase in gambling related disorders had not materialised.
Recent surveys in the USA had shown a considerable demand for online gambling among punters in that country, despite legislative attempts to restrict the pastime, he said.
The impact of Internet gambling has been of particular interest to the expert, who comments: "The very first thing we learned, which we didn't expect, was that the vast majority, the overwhelming majority, of gamblers online gamble in a very moderate and mild way."
Shaffer opines that prohibitive approaches to Internet gambling are unlikely to be effective, but that education, public awareness programs, and truth in advertising regulation all can help keep gambling safer.
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Good article, I've seen many articles today, but only this article is of interest to me, thanks
Good article, I've seen many articles today, but only this article is of interest to me, thanks
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