Casinos and Responsible Gambling

Nate

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All too often we see the term ‘Responsible Gambling’ being used by Casino’s. But have we really taken the time to analyse the exact role they play in promoting ‘True’ responsible gambling? The online industry is actually a different beast compared to Brick and Mortar Casinos. In some jurisdictions, it is against the law to promote gambling on TV or by other means. B&M Casinos are also restricted from enticing players to gamble by offering match bonuses or free credits.

Over the years I have noted a few scenarios which are not in the best interest of responsible gambling. As long as the industry is unregulated (and Casinos are pretty much self regulated in certain areas), these little scenarios will bring them plenty of added profits and actually defeats the true spirit of responsible gambling in its entirety.

I will put forward a few examples and although it seems some scenarios may look like a ‘Benefit to Players’ the actual reason is clear (to me at least). This post takes no bias towards any Software provider and intends no malice to any Casino.

Microgaming

I love the software and I firmly believe that there is no equal to them. However:

Recent developments like Thunderstruck II are actually intended for players to chase achievements. Whilst this may seem harmless, achieving those come at a great cost to the player. In order to unlock features such as free spins, players are enticed to continue playing for rewards, The reward at the end is actually not as great as it is hyped up to be.

Newer games such as Retro Reels and Reel Gems are another beast. They entice players to bet OVER their usual betting patterns in order to reap quick and fast rewards. If you are not a seasoned player and don’t watch your bankroll, you may end up out of pocket and betting above your head faster than you intended.

Tournaments are designed to benefit players with the biggest bankroll. 99 Continues and 50 rebuys hardly supports the philosophy of responsible gambling and entices players in the top half to chase the ultimate award – 1st prize.

Real Time Gaming

A somewhat controversial software in some quarters, specifically with the amount of rogue operations and ‘catchy’ terms and conditions. I must admit, they have a nice variety of games, but often clatter their operations with too much red tape – all in favour of them.

The case that always sticks in my mind is the ‘Student’ fiasco that played out over 100 pages a month or two ago. I cannot fathom how the Casino intended to promote responsible gambling whilst NOT being considerate of the unemployed and pensioners. It was a pitiful excuse in my honest opinion and responsible gambling was used as a scape goat but the intention to safe guard anyone was never really there.

Another gimmick by RTG operators is the inability to flush withdrawals. This is actually enticing the player to come back and reverse the withdrawal. The fact that they will not accept a withdrawal until the time that you are ‘Verified’ is pitiful. All too often, I have seen players complain about the inability to withdraw (because they are not verified) or the withdrawal staying in a ‘pending’ state until such time that it is approved. This in my personal opinion is enticing ‘another run’ and ultimately aimed at players playing out withdrawals before they are processed. Remember, this is in the interest of ALL Gamblers. Many have stronger will power than others… other fall to temptation easily. Do I blame them…? NO… Casinos are aware of this and will use this to their benefit.

A recent introduction by some Casinos of minimum deposits ($45 and more) and minimum withdrawals of $100 plus is typical of the industries stance on responsible gambling.

Another development is that of increasing the minimum bet over 400% on player accounts. This again, is not in the interest of responsible gambling, but in the interest of the Casinos pocket. How are they actually able to determine WHO can afford to play at those stakes??

3Dice

3Dice is a unique software provider with excellent games and service second to none.

A recent introduction of newer games and functions has caught my attention. Ching Ching may be a great game for some; however it is right up the alley of Thunderstruck II. The game entices players to chase the feature by completing a puzzle, and more often than not is not actually worth the time and effort. Whilst just like Thunderstruck II - a BIG hit can occur at any time but players often want to get to the main feature and end up spending more that they actually should.

Another neat feature introduced by 3Dice is the ‘Rainy Day Funds’. When I first played there, I was FULLY supportive of it. I mean which Casino offers an advance to players and asks them to pay it when they withdraw (Or even not at all if you close your account). I found myself using those funds when I had exceeded my Credit Card limits for the day or when I wanted to play and wasn’t able to deposit. Whilst some players regard this as a positive step, I for one am now against it. Being on a higher VIP level means that you receive more rainy day funds. The problem comes in when you never make a withdrawal or are having bad luck and stay away. Loyalty levels decrease and the ‘I owe You’ sticks behind. Players are then actually literally forced into trying to win more in order to cover their Rainy Day Funds and take the balance as a withdrawal. This may not impact you on $10 or $20… but once you have outstanding rainy day funds of $250 upwards, your cash out goal increases and you more than often end up losing trying to cover those funds up.

Live Wins being published in Chat are another great Idea from 3Dice. Well, kinda… The general belief is that people are winning all the time. It entices the people in chat to play when they see these hits coming through. It is not indicative of the reality (that X lost $500 to win $172.50) and is misleading in general.

Vegas Technology

A variety of games, but tends to have the same feel to all of them. Worth a shot I thought….

I first signed up a couple months ago. Made a few deposits and decided to try the software out. Seeing that my first deposit was $500 I checked to see whether I was able to withdraw a ‘Decent Amount’. To my dismay, Moneybookers was listed as having a MAX withdrawal of $500 per week. What got to me was the fact that you could deposit as much as you wanted via Moneybookers but could only withdraw $500. I was not going to accept this, so I contacted live help. The rep actually tried to make me deposit MORE in order to up my withdrawal limits. Nevertheless, I started a thread about this and the limits were revised. How many other individuals were actually coaxed into depositing more to increase their withdrawal limits? Responsible Gambling… my SHOE!!!

Rival

I played this platform for a short while. I enjoyed the games and didn’t have any issues.

I recently saw a few posts about Rival Casinos offering bonuses on reversed withdrawals? Surely, this is not in the spirit of responsible gambling?

Your Experiences

I have highlighted just a few scenarios which come to mind. Whilst there may be conflicting opinions about my post, the scenarios I have highlighted are definitely NOT in the spirit of responsible gambling... Call it a marketing tool or a feature, the ultimate goal is to increase play.

I have not played on every platform and would appreciate if you could share your experience of any scenario you are aware of, or believe to be against the Responsible Gambling Philosophy.

Nate
 

UriahHeep

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thank you for your post, Nate.
I think you are underlining some relevant aspects which too often are ignored.

I agree with you 100% but on 3dice since -being myself italian- I cannot play there from many months, and when I was used to play there these new games and features were not active yet.
 

pinsnpies

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Anyone else think the reverse withdrawal option isn't responsible gambling? You could end up withdrawing £500, reversing it, losing it and then depsiting more to try and chase back those winnings.
 

rainmaker

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Good post Nate :thumbsup:

I think that NetEnt probably is the one platform that takes responsible gaming most seriously.

They gives the player the opportunity to set own gaming limits, budgets, and boundaries. I don`t know if every NetEnt casino has this function, but to my knowledge this is quite standard.

They even have a self-exclusion section in the casinos where the player can exclude himself without even contacting the CS. Just press a button. There are two options (from my account at Betsson) :

1. Don't allow me to login for the next 7 days
You will not be able to login to your Betsson account for the duration of the 7 days cooling of period, but you will still be able to receive newsletters from us via e-mail. Once the 7 days cooling of period ends you will be notified by e-mail.

2.Don't allow me to login for the next 6 months
You will not be able to login to your Betsson account for the duration of the 6 months self-exclusion period and you will not receive newsletters from Betsson via e-mail during this period.
 

Nifty29

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IMO the responsibility lies squarely with the player.

Nobody is forcing anyone to deposit or 'chase' features.

The casino has the right to assume that players can afford what they deposit, in the same way McDonalds assumes that when you have a meal there you are fully aware of health implications. What next? Maccas installs scales at the register to check you for a healthy BMI before you order?

I think the OP has some valid points and I thank him for posting them, but at the end of the day we need to accept responsibility for our own behavior.
 

ksech

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Nate, I think you have hit on some relevant items here.
What gets me are the threads where players have asked for their accounts to be closed (for whatever reason), but the casinos continue to send these players promos. To me, this is NOT in the best interest of the player, it encourages the player to keep on depositing. I know I receive promos all the time for casinos I am no longer able to deposit and play at (being in the US), so for a newbie they take the time to read line after line of T&Cs (but many times not), take the time to download the casino, only to find out they cannot play there.

I also agree that offering a reverse bonus is a bogus tactic, the player is almost assured to lose and not make any withdrawal, JMO. And then the limitations for withdrawing for some are "idiotic" in the sense they put a minimum withdrawal amount to an ewallet you've deposited through. If there is no minimum amount to deposit, then I feel there shouldn't be a minimum amount to withdraw. They should keep the amounts the same, IMO.

Also, the thread about changing the minimum betsize for some, but not all, is ludacris. If a casino only wants to cater to the high betting player, then they should state this on their home page, not wait until a player has deposited to find out they are now stuck playing games at a higher bet size than other players. This is prejudicial towards the player. How many "older" players will be trapped by this when they deposit at a casino they haven't played at for a while?

Very good thread!:thumbsup:
 

Nate

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IMO the responsibility lies squarely with the player.

Nobody is forcing anyone to deposit or 'chase' features.

The casino has the right to assume that players can afford what they deposit, in the same way McDonalds assumes that when you have a meal there you are fully aware of health implications. What next? Maccas installs scales at the register to check you for a healthy BMI before you order?

I think the OP has some valid points and I thank him for posting them, but at the end of the day we need to accept responsibility for our own behavior.

Thanks for the comments Nifty. Whilst I agree that nobody is forcing anyone to chase features or deposit, the post was to merely highlight the type of strategies / marketing tactics casinos have resorted to.

We all know that Gambling is a sickness and it is irresponsible for software operators to prey on their clients and employ tactics which look like they beneficial to players when they actually are not. You may have strong will power to differentiate and reason; however there are MANY people trapped in their addiction to gambling. Comparing Macdonalds to Gambling is not a very good comparison. Gambling addiction wrecks lives, destroys families and has lead to people stealing to support the habit. Some people also pay the ultimate price - Their Life. Addiction is widespread and bigger than we might believe.

The idea of some of the games is to complete the acheivements to unlock more rewards or respin features - This IMPO will lead players to playing a Slot more and attemtping to unlock rewards or earn features. Nobody forces people to do this, but im afraid that there are several people who cannot control the habit.

I for one LOVE Thunderstruck II and played it till this very day. The concept is not ideal but I too was curious at getting the features and unlocking free spins. In the end, I believe that irrelevant of the feature that is chosen, the outcome will be the SAME. So why do it in the first place? Maximising potential is the answer - Clever Idea if you ask me.:thumbsup:

Nate

______________________________________

Edit:Article Sums up the point im trying to make.

A NORTHERN suburbs federal Labor politician is demanding national action against poker machines which lead gamblers to think they are close to a win.
Wakefield MP Nick Champion today will move a motion in the House of Representatives, calling on the gaming industry and state governments to work together to address what he says is the growing incidence of problem gambling created specifically by the way the machines are configured to hook people in.
His motion says problem gambling has increased "particularly due to the design and structural features of the electronic gaming machines".
Tell us: Do you agree with Nick Champion?
Mr Champion believes the industry must be forced to acknowledge gaming machines can have an insidious effect on problem gamblers because they are deliberately designed to give the impression of "near misses" so vulnerable people think they are close to winning.
"What's happening on the screens is not necessarily what is happening inside the machines," he said.
Mr Champion said electronic gaming machines were specifically designed to attract problem gamblers, leading to major social and economic problems for those affected.
A member of the Right faction, in his first term in Parliament, Mr Champion is a former union official with the Shop Distributive and Allied Employees' Association.
His comments could embarrass Premier Mike Rann, whose government obtained $285 million from poker machine taxes last year.
The call comes as the Senate's Community Affairs Committee awaits a response from the gaming machine industry after seeking details of the design features of the machines.
Fellow South Australian and anti-poker machine campaigner Nick Xenophon welcomed Mr Champion's proposed resolution.
"If the major parties are taking this up, it reflects a wider concern also in the electorate," he said.
State governments have been criticised for adopting a moral tone about the evils of gambling while relying heavily on revenue and GST takings from machines to fund essential services.

Source:

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Nate

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Anyone else think the reverse withdrawal option isn't responsible gambling? You could end up withdrawing £500, reversing it, losing it and then depsiting more to try and chase back those winnings.

It is irresponsible for them to leave it pending for so long. It is irresponsible for them NOT to FLUSH.

The decision ultimately lies with the player, BUT your intention was to cash out and NOT to continue playing. Temptation is a nasty thing. Players are often lead to reverse withdrawals that could have hit their accounts or have been flushed in the first place.

Unethical and predatory if you ask me.

Nate
 

De Beuker

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I just want to say that I thank God on my bare knees in the pooring rain that this new respinfeauture from Microgaming was NOT yet there 3 years ago, when I was still a very unexperienced player.

Lets be honest, it only benefits the casino, as the only thing it does is entice players to bet FAR above their normal stakes, thus sucking you dry 10-30 times faster than normal.
I've promised myself not to play these games, and so far, from what I've seen, I cant say I regret that decision.
 

Vegasbum

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I totally agree with your post Nate :thumbsup:. Your take on MG casinos and their new games really hit the mark. While I play MG alot I boycott their new games because of the very reasons you pointed out. I also don't play any of the games that force you to play all lines.
 

ergopro

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At Casino Euro (Betsson) you can still open a new account, play, lose and as the casino didn't flag your new account think that it's ok only to find out later that your new account is locked and you won't get a dime back. Didn't happen to me, but know someone that had this kinda issue. After you try to ask about their responsible gaming policy, you only get useless yadda yadda.

Of course it's player's fault if he opens a new account deliberately but I think there's a lot of improvement needed on casino's side how to get self-excluded and banned players blocked from opening new accounts. :)
 
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Deeplay

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I do agree with most of the points raised - but it also comes down to the player if getting in too deep to want to take the step to get help. Not always easy im sure and more can be done by casinos. But no matter what responsible gaming options a casino offers if a person really wants to gamble then they will - we all know how easy it is to find a place online to squander out money ;)

As for 3dice Rainy Day funds yep it can stop you cashing out somtimes but can also work the other way. At least 2 times I have gone in - not made a deposit and used my rainy funds and won enough to cashout after paying back the funds. In effect giving me a withdraw without having to make a deposit in real time. So there is 2 sides to this one. But my rainfunds are not big so damage is marginal. And if you dont want to use the feature then just ignore it or ask CS to remove that option which they probably would ?
 

LinkinFart

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Nice thread, I was just thinking about this very same thing today.

You forgot to mention Playtech network in op.

Playtech considers "Hide casino games" turned on/off through options in poker client as part of responsible gaming policy. Responsible gaming if you dont need it in the first place.

Also, Playtech, not sure if all Playtech casinos practice this but William Hill owned ones do, will allow player to activate self exclusion for certain period of time and it will be in effect immediately, but if player wishes to play before that exclusion period has ended player only needs to email casino and they will allow him to play again with no hustle at all and just as fast if not faster. You can send an email asking them to exclude you and once they do send another telling them you want to play again and they dont see it as a problem at all. Also, live chat cant activate this, you must contact them through email.



NetEnt.
I must say I like what they`re doing more and more every day. Not all of them have all these limitiations available to player through "My account" or similar, I think I didnt saw this at one establishment at least, but most of the time it doesnt matter for me because I organize my funds in such way that I cant deposit over what I wanted, thank god for debit cards and I dont bother getting a credit card at all. At that one establishment where I dont think I saw all these options when I requested self exclusion for short period of time there was no way to get around it, exclusion is in effect for the period player asked not less and not more.
I usually dont ask for exclusions but this time I had to because this particular casino in question has somewhat complicated system to get the money out of the casino section, stalling would be the right phrasing and its 24h waiting period to hit main account from which one can then request withdrawal, but once I have activated this exclusion, money was in the main account before that 24h period has passed, not much but still at least 6h earlier, and withdrawal was processed the very same day. So at least they played "fair game" so far, no one can blame them for trying as long as they`re not pushing you into reversal like some do.

So its really a trap for really feeble ones not having courage to activate exclusion when they think they might actually reverse it and put another 24h waiting period in effect. I dont blame those people much because as I said I like NetEnt slots more and more and some of them can be very addictive and some do look like they were made by 3 year old kidds but I just dont play those :).

On Microgaming,
Although that TS2 unlocking feature is in fact what you say it is I dont find it horrible, just a little extra effort from casino to keep you coming back or continue playing for a little longer. Nothing serious, thats what they`re supposed to do.

Those RESPIN slots, on the other hand, are horrible attempt. I`ll stop it here and wont try to rationalize people and their thought process when they hit respin button. Plain stupid.

On RTG.
They can forget me as their customer. Simple as that.

On Rival.
I dont want to waste any words for any of their casinos, rogued or not. Same as RTG if not worse. Bye bye.

On Vegas Tech.
I dont know, played some tourneys really long time ago but I dont like the sound of their slots and they just repel me. Never bothered to look or test their responsible gaming policy

Did I miss something??? :icon_evil
 

rainmaker

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LinkinFart:

You can send an email asking them to exclude you and once they do send another telling them you want to play again and they dont see it as a problem at all. Also, live chat cant activate this, you must contact them through email.

If this is the case, then it is very rougish. I would never use a casino that operates in such a way. As a principle.


Nate :

When it comes to the "rainy day" thing from 3dice. I believe that no casino shall allow gambling on credit. I understand that this may be a final comp if the player don`t do another deposit. But regardless, this practice is senseless. I have said this before in an earlier thread, and it is strange that a casino like 3dice have such a "gambling on credit"-practice.
 

LinkinFart

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Trust me I dont. As a matter of fact I gave up on all Playtech too, regardless of who ownes them.
 

rainmaker

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Trust me I dont. As a matter of fact I gave up on all Playtech too, regardless of who ownes them.

I have mostly used Centrebet when playing Playtech, and my experience with Centrebet is very good. I think Centrebet is probably one of the best places to play if you want Playtech games.
 

Nate

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You forgot to mention Playtech network in op.

Playtech considers "Hide casino games" turned on/off through options in poker client as part of responsible gaming policy. Responsible gaming if you dont need it in the first place.

Also, Playtech, not sure if all Playtech casinos practice this but William Hill owned ones do, will allow player to activate self exclusion for certain period of time and it will be in effect immediately, but if player wishes to play before that exclusion period has ended player only needs to email casino and they will allow him to play again with no hustle at all and just as fast if not faster. You can send an email asking them to exclude you and once they do send another telling them you want to play again and they dont see it as a problem at all. Also, live chat cant activate this, you must contact them through email.



NetEnt.
I must say I like what they`re doing more and more every day. Not all of them have all these limitiations available to player through "My account" or similar, I think I didnt saw this at one establishment at least, but most of the time it doesnt matter for me because I organize my funds in such way that I cant deposit over what I wanted, thank god for debit cards and I dont bother getting a credit card at all. At that one establishment where I dont think I saw all these options when I requested self exclusion for short period of time there was no way to get around it, exclusion is in effect for the period player asked not less and not more.
I usually dont ask for exclusions but this time I had to because this particular casino in question has somewhat complicated system to get the money out of the casino section, stalling would be the right phrasing and its 24h waiting period to hit main account from which one can then request withdrawal, but once I have activated this exclusion, money was in the main account before that 24h period has passed, not much but still at least 6h earlier, and withdrawal was processed the very same day. So at least they played "fair game" so far, no one can blame them for trying as long as they`re not pushing you into reversal like some do.

So its really a trap for really feeble ones not having courage to activate exclusion when they think they might actually reverse it and put another 24h waiting period in effect. I dont blame those people much because as I said I like NetEnt slots more and more and some of them can be very addictive and some do look like they were made by 3 year old kidds but I just dont play those :).

On Microgaming,
Although that TS2 unlocking feature is in fact what you say it is I dont find it horrible, just a little extra effort from casino to keep you coming back or continue playing for a little longer. Nothing serious, thats what they`re supposed to do.

Those RESPIN slots, on the other hand, are horrible attempt. I`ll stop it here and wont try to rationalize people and their thought process when they hit respin button. Plain stupid.

On RTG.
They can forget me as their customer. Simple as that.

On Rival.
I dont want to waste any words for any of their casinos, rogued or not. Same as RTG if not worse. Bye bye.

On Vegas Tech.
I dont know, played some tourneys really long time ago but I dont like the sound of their slots and they just repel me. Never bothered to look or test their responsible gaming policy

Did I miss something??? :icon_evil

Thanks to all for the positive contributions.

The Respin feature on Microgaming is of concern. When i initially started playing Reel Gems, I tried the respin feature for the free spins once. I got it on the first attempt. Tried only one more time and opted against it because of the huge cost involved. Nevertheless, I got the Free Spins a few spins later and it didn't make sense that I needed to pay 80 x my bet to TRY and get a symbol.

There obviously will be individuals who will be lucky enough to hit a symbol on the first spin. The vast majority will end up losing faster.

Thunderstruck II is an awesome game. I love the game and the game play. Like i suggested earlier, i believe that irrelevant of the feature chosen, the outcome will remain the same. The reason i quoted it as misleading is because players are under the impression that as free spins are unlocked, the rewards are greater. If you think of it, the FIRST free spin option is actually the best. All spins and Wins x 5.

Reading through the threads has brought my attention once again to another MG issue. Forcing players to increase their deposits or play in order to unlock comp points that they have already earned.... Another blatant disregard...


What is the industry coming to?

Nate
 

Deeplay

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Thanks to all for the positive contributions.

The Respin feature on Microgaming is of concern. When i initially started playing Reel Gems, I tried the respin feature for the free spins once. I got it on the first attempt. Tried only one more time and opted against it because of the huge cost involved. Nevertheless, I got the Free Spins a few spins later and it didn't make sense that I needed to pay 80 x my bet to TRY and get a symbol.

There obviously will be individuals who will be lucky enough to hit a symbol on the first spin. The vast majority will end up losing faster.

Thunderstruck II is an awesome game. I love the game and the game play. Like i suggested earlier, i believe that irrelevant of the feature chosen, the outcome will remain the same. The reason i quoted it as misleading is because players are under the impression that as free spins are unlocked, the rewards are greater. If you think of it, the FIRST free spin option is actually the best. All spins and Wins x 5.

Reading through the threads has brought my attention once again to another MG issue. Forcing players to increase their deposits or play in order to unlock comp points that they have already earned.... Another blatant disregard...


What is the industry coming to?

Nate

In regards to T2 I agree. After playing this slot alot and choosing from all differnt fs features I dont think it makes a difference what you choose. I have had big wins and low wins on all 4. I think the only difference is the more fs the more shots you have at a win. But in the end if this slot wants to pay it will no matter what you click and if it dont then your screwed ;) another side note the only reason I now choose the last fs feature is it seems to last longer ;) now that is sad !!
 

De Beuker

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I have mostly used Centrebet when playing Playtech, and my experience with Centrebet is very good. I think Centrebet is probably one of the best places to play if you want Playtech games.

The only reputable Playtech that I can play.
Man, I was sooo dissapointed to see they did not have the Marvell slots!
I mean, I finally found a non-rogue Playtech I can play, and still NO Iron Man!:(

For TSII, from looking at the WSS to me it seems the Loki feauture is the one with the highest potential.
I've seen 1000x bet and over on that one.
How can you hit 1000x bet on that first feauture?
5 oak pictures on every spin?
 

Nate

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For TSII, from looking at the WSS to me it seems the Loki feauture is the one with the highest potential.
I've seen 1000x bet and over on that one.
How can you hit 1000x bet on that first feauture?
5 oak pictures on every spin?

Didn't see that. You are probably right as the Wild Magic is able to replicate several times. 5 x Wilds on the First Feature (x5)?

Nate
 
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