Question about self-exclusion and terms and conditions

[sam_i]

Hello everyone! I am posting here if any of you here on forum can help me with my case and also help me understand how casino terms and conditions work and what will happen if casino breaks them and if i would have a valid case against a casino that is refusing my deposit refunds:

On 25/10/2020 i self-excluded from fansbet.com which is a Rush Gaming Limited casino. I chose "forever" when i self-excluded which means permanently and i did NOT choose indefinite time period and i did not even have a option to choose indefinite time but it was only forever which means permanently.

On 07/03/2021 i tried to create a rushcasino.com account which is Rush Gaming Limited casino also but because i was permanently and forever self-excluded from fansbet.com already a automatic linkage self-exclusion was added to my rushcasino.com account when i tried to create that account there.

Then on 15/05/2021 my urges came back and i tried to find a casino to play on and i messaged fansbet.com if they could reopen my account. This should have never happened because when i self-excluded 6months ago from this casino i was assured then that my account would be permanently closed like it said and like i chose the "forever" option and i did this to protect myself then because of this gambling addiction. Anyway fansbet.com then replied that my accounts could be reopened with 7-day cooldown but my self-exclusion was set forever which means permanently it should have been for life.

This is what it says regarding self-exclusions on fansbet.com and rushcasino.com

• Please NOTE that your self-exclusion request will apply to all your accounts on all of the Operator’s Websites."
• If you wish to self-exclude please do so by logging into your User Account, and going to “My Profile”,” Profile”, “Self-Exclusion” and choose a period or the option permanently."
• You can self-exclude by selecting the time period during which you'd like to be excluded & then click confirm
• Please note that self-exclusion means automatic termination of your account access for a certain period of time with no option of reversal prior to its expiration

Clearly you can see these terms and conditions say very clearly that i can choose a permanent self-exclusion which i did i have attached a screenshot of the self-exclusion page where it can be seen that "forever" was the only option there was no option for me to even choose "indefinite" time period and my account should have been self-excluded permanently with no option to revoke my self-exclusion like i though when i first time self-excluded from fansbet.com This self-exclusion should be inplace from 25/10/2020 onwards on both fansbet.com and rushcasino.com accounts because their self-exclusions apply to all casinos operated under the same license Rush Gaming Limited.

MGA regulatory terms for terms and conditions regarding responsible gambling:

• (1) B2C licensees shall ensure that none of the terms on which they offer their gaming service, including in relation to any promotional schemes, are unfair in terms of the Consumer Affairs Act.
• (2) Terms and conditions shall be readily available and accessible to player at all times, including before registration, and shall be written in clear, legible and intelligible language. In the case of a gaming service offered by remote means, the terms and conditions shall be no more than one click away from the homepage of the B2C licensee, or from the game or activity to which they refer. Operators of gaming premises or controlled gaming premises shall, at all times, display their terms and conditions, game rules, and other rules in a prominent location, and shall always be made available and accessible to players.
• (3) Players shall be required to expressly accept any material changes to the terms and conditions before they take effect, and before they are allowed to continue making use of the gaming service.
• (7) All terms and conditions shall always at the very least be provided in either the English and/or Maltese language, and in the case of conflict with any other versions, the version which is most beneficial to the player shall prevail.
• (12) The self-exclusion procedure shall be as simple as possible: Provided that the B2C licensee may include one additional step that requires the player to confirm that he wishes to self-exclude himself from gaming activity;
• (13) Gaming premises and controlled gaming premises operators shall offer the possibility of self- exclusion in such manner as is envisaged in the Gaming Premises Regulations. For the avoidance of any doubt, notwithstanding any other provision of this article, a period of exclusion from playing in gaming premises shall not be decreased or revoked before the expiry of the set duration.

Rush gaming limited offered a permanent self-exclusion where i chose the "forever" option like it says on their terms and conditions and i have a screenshot proof of this which means this self-exclusion should have never be lifted i was assured by it because i read the terms and condition that they have set up and are clearly written there that i am now safe and i cannot access my account ever again on their casinos but this was not the case you and they have reopened my account and ignored their own terms and conditions.

My rushcasino.com account was maybe self-excluded "indefinitely" but that was by their automatic linkage self-exclusion system i don't know how it works and thats not my problem and i did not even choose anything there. I self-excluded on fansbet.com and CHOSE forever self-exclusion which in english language means permanent not indefinite.

To this day they ignored my complaint not handled it with care and totally just ignored my fansbet.com self-exclusion and their own terms and conditions. They also always ignores my self-exclusion set on fansbet.com on 25/10/2020 and refer to their automatic linkage self-exclusions which was added to my rushcasino.com account on 07/03/2021 which is really irrelevant in my case i think.

The thing about this complaint is that the fansbet.com self-exclusion on 25/10/2020 was set permanently NOT indefinitely so the rule quoted to my case should not be applicable in my case because their terms and conditions say that self-exclusions carry to all properties of the licensee and self-exclusions cannot be revoked or removed prior to its expiration date which in my case was set forever which means it should have never been reopened under any circumstances and all my bets should have been voided from that date onwards.

What do you guys think do i have a valid case here or no? also how do these casino terms and conditions work because it seems that casinos will use their terms against players but when their own terms and conditions are used against them they just totally ignore them.

 

[heojinus]

So did you deposit and lost or something? Cant find that info from the wall of text

 

[sam_i]

Hello. Yes 25/10/2020 i self-excluded forever using fansbet.com self-exclusion tool because i was creating accounts everywhere and self-excluding myself to protect myself and to not have access to casinos. Then last month i got the huge urges and tried to find a casino to play on and fansbet.com opened my accounts on their casinos with 7-day cooldown although their terms and condition states that self-exclusions cannot be revoked or removed prior to expiry date and "forever" mean permanently not indefinitely. I made some deposits on fansbet.com and rushcasino.com after i was supposed to be self-excluded permanently according to their terms and conditions and asked to get refunds of net losses from 25/10/2020 onwards which was from last month when i played.

I am just unsure about these terms and conditions and looks like they are ignoring them atleast what i can read and understand here. But they will use them against players whenever they have the chance that what i have noticed and now im wondering do i have a case here against them or what opinions other people have about my complaint.

 

[RichyJ75]

Fansbet is run by Argyll Entertainment (from memory, Fansbet used to be owned by Viral Interactive) whereas Rush Casino which is run by Rush Gaming Limited. They don't appear to use the same licence number, unless Fansbet is different for UK users?

 

[sam_i]

Fansbet is run by Argyll Entertainment (from memory, Fansbet used to be owned by Viral Interactive) whereas Rush Casino which is run by Rush Gaming Limited. They don't appear to use the same licence number, unless Fansbet is different for UK users?

Rush Gaming Limited operates fansbet.com and rushcasino.com which can be seen on the MGA license. I don't know how it was before but atleast when i self-excluded they are under the same license and operated by Rush Gaming Limited.

 

[Slottery]

Their answer is pretty much correct that under MGA regulation, any self-exclusion can be removed within 7 days cooloff period, unless there are severe RG concerns. You might try to challenge their decision if you have clearly stated that you closed your account (closing account and self-exclusion are pretty much same thing under MGA) due to gambling problem and even then they didn't ask any questions about your gambling problems when they re-opened account.

With provided information, can't find any such regulatory failure that they would need to refund your deposits (assuming that's what you are looking for). It's just playing with words to refer to indefinite vs permanent, indefinite is word used in by MGA but most of casinos chose word permanent or other similar which is easier understandable for players who are not native English speakers.

revoking an indefinite period of self-exclusion is effective only after the lapse of not less than 7 days from the day on which the Licensee receives the notice.

Like said earlier, if you have clearly communicated about your gambling problem and they have totally failed take that an account, then it could be different but that would be something very clearly stated from your side, not only that "they should have realized".

 

[sam_i]

Yes looks like you are right. This is the answer i got from MGA regarding this case.

"Please be informed that the operator followed the directive and all the procedures and the removal was carried forward after a formal reopening request from your side. The account was re-opened after a seven day cool off period which is in line with their Terms and conditions and also from the Player Protection Directive which clearly states that:

11 (10) A notice by the player decreasing a definite period of self-exclusion shall be effective only after the lapse of not less than twenty-four hours from the day on which the B2C licensee receives the notice, and a notice by the player revoking an indefinite period of self exclusion shall be effective only after the lapse of not less than seven days from the day on which the B2C licensee receives the notice.

Please bear in mind that we are unable to assist you in retrieving money you have already wagered. If you would like we can provide you with an effective means of protecting yourself through the use of blocking software which will completely removes access to any gambling-related websites. If you are determined to remove the temptation altogether, we can make this software available to you free of charge. Naturally, we also recommend approaching professionals who are able to assist you further with your challenges.

If you would like further instructions relating to the free blocking software please let us know and we will send you the necessary information.

Regards,"

i just don't understand how can "forever" mean the same as "indefinite" to be honest.

 

[The Dude]

I'm not sure what you are trying to do here. Are you looking for a loophole to get your funds back?

Are you admitting that you have a serious gambling problem, so serious that you need the casino's software to prohibit you from playing?

If it's that serious, how did the casino customer support respond when you told them - you contacted them, right?

Or are you self excluding because you are dissatisfied with the casino action (not enough bonuses, low RTP, just can't win, etc.).

The bottom line is what are your intentions?

 

[sam_i]

Hello. my intention was only to self-exclude myself for my gambling addiction problems thats why when i created my account on fansbet.com i instantly just chose the period "forever" and never made any deposits there.

I think only people with real gambling problems will understand truly how hard it is to stay away from this disease and there should be atleast a choice to choose the reason for self-exclusions. From my understanding self-exclusion is ment for people with gambling problems and that wish to take a longer break than only to close you're account. Or just for people who want to take a break but without the possibility to reopen the account until the self-exclusion has expired but looks like that is not the case. MGA should really change this because only way to actually get self-excluded for a chosen time period is to tell them you have a gambling problem otherwise they will always reopen you're account with this 24-hour or 7-day cooldown.

I did not contact the live chat then because they were offline and since they have a responsible gambling tool in place which you can just use instead if you want to self-exclude and because it says on their terms and conditions that self-exclusions cannot be revoked before time period has expired but i did not know then that forever means indefinitely or atleast from their perspective.

My only intention was to protect myself and that can be shown that i never made any deposits when i first created my account. I self-excluded and 6months after i came back because of my urges but looks like i should have contacted them instead and told them the reason. Also there were no option to choose any reason for the self-exclusion but only the time period.

Now i have only contacted casinos directly to e-mail and stated clearly that i want self-exclusion for gambling problems because it seems that no matter what time-period or what is says on their terms you can always reopen you're account back unless you tell them that its for gambling problems.

Does the "forever" exclusion mean the same as "indefinite" time period though im bit confused?

As adverbs the difference between indefinitely and forever

is that indefinitely is for a long time, no end defined while forever is (duration) for all time, for all eternity; for an infinite amount of time.

My native language is not english so i think thats why i assumed that forever actually means until the day i die.

Lesson learned from this i guess.

 

[heojinus]

Just get to the point and say you want your deposit back next time. That is why this whole sub-forum exist afterall

 

[tazash]

I had a similar case with an online casino I self excluded told them I had a gambling addiction only difference is I emailed them to self excluded and then when I was in a bad place one day I emailed them used a lousy excuse and bingo account reopened.
I’ve been trying chase them for almost a year now. They just say it’s with upper management and I’ll get a response soon every time

 

[lord flashheart]

indefinitely and forever

They're synonymous. Forever is how you defined it in your post. Indefinitely is for an undefined period of time or in this case a time period that is not limited - AKA forever