Gamstop and the popular online casino

[EkJR]

If you have a pab going you are not allowed to comment at all and are extreme risk of getting said pab thrown out. So stop now would be my advice.

Yep, don't comment if anything ongoing.

 

[xexe]

In the UK under their licence agreements they have a max of 72 hours from first deposit to ensure that the player is who they say they are. Some do automated checks, others request docs. This is how it should be but it's not and casinos sometimes never ask for this ID or do so when a player withdraws. The rules are changing in May where you can't deposit until your verified and checked against the Gamstop register as well.

It sounds on OP like it all happened in 1 day and that he wanted the money back the very next morning, so it hadn't gone 72 hours.

A player opened an account on Bet Victor. Used an incorrect date of birth(by a day I think) but other details the same. Bet Victor did not verify date of birth, they verified age automatically and hence allowed the player to play for 3 weeks racking up losses of £13k. If the date of birth had been verified he wouldn't have been able to open the account. Who is at fault?

Was it with the rule of having to verify identification within 72 hours? In that case, I guess they are at fault. But in the end, I think the UK needs to upgrade their system. What system do you use to identify yourself online to do for example online banking? Apply that to gambling sites and it would solve literally all these problems. When I sign up to a gambling site, I just push my fingerprint on my phone and they instantly get my name, address and all the information needed. Ever since the 1st of january this year, I never need to send passport pictures, proof of adress, bank statements etc. I don't even have the option to circumvent the system or creating a 2nd account by using false info. If I exclude myself, I'm out unless I can convince somebody else to make an account for me and make deposits for me from their bank account.

So while yes, it's a shitty situation for all parties, I think it can be difficult for gambling sites to catch every single person who intentionally gives the wrong info. But like you said, the rules are changing in May so that's something at least.

If it's LV then they will be in a shitload of trouble having recent previous for it...

I would bet it is LV. Clicked the OPs profile and he follows the LeoVegas rep.

 

[colinsunderland]

There are worse casinos out there like 888 (rogue pit), who will accept sign-up but as soon as you make a deposit, they seize the funds and close your account if you blocked yourself from any sister casino years ago. Didn't happen to me but someone else who deposited ~€700 and he copy pasted the customer support convo, absolutely disgusting predators. He's in the process of contacting MGA. To be clear, he didn't even lose the money; they just took it after he made the deposit and referred to their T&C.

Playing devil's advocate here to an extent, but how is a casino who lets you deposit and as soon as you do, takes your money, worse than a casino that lets you make 14 deposits? As I can guarantee he wouldn't have been paid had he won (and rightly so) but they have refused the deposits back too?

The OP is right now PABing to try and get his money back that he lost. Conversely, if he won, he'd probably be PABing to try to get his winnings. So that goes both ways.

Which he would 100% lose.

If it's LV then they will be in a shitload of trouble having recent previous for it...

It is, the OP confirmed it earlier in the thread.



OP you need to stop posting now, or your PAB will fail. Seriously, stop.

 

[EkJR]

It sounds on OP like it all happened in 1 day and that he wanted the money back the very next morning, so it hadn't gone 72 hours.



Was it with the rule of having to verify identification within 72 hours? In that case, I guess they are at fault. But in the end, I think the UK needs to upgrade their system. What system do you use to identify yourself online to do for example online banking? Apply that to gambling sites and it would solve literally all these problems. When I sign up to a gambling site, I just push my fingerprint on my phone and they instantly get my name, address and all the information needed. Ever since the 1st of january this year, I never need to send passport pictures, proof of adress, bank statements etc. I don't even have the option to circumvent the system or creating a 2nd account by using false info. If I exclude myself, I'm out unless I can convince somebody else to make an account for me and make deposits for me from their bank account.

So while yes, it's a shitty situation for all parties, I think it can be difficult for gambling sites to catch every single person who intentionally gives the wrong info. But like you said, the rules are changing in May so that's something at least.



I would bet it is LV. Clicked the OPs profile and he follows the LeoVegas rep.

Even at that, changing one detail you still expect the casinos system to flag them. According to their licence requirements they must hold a log of all excluded players for the period of the exclusion and check each new account opening against this. Seems very easy if it's just email address changed!!

Yep the rule change will make things much better and fairer.

 

[colinsunderland]

Even at that, changing one detail you still expect the casinos system to flag them. According to their licence requirements they must hold a log of all excluded players for the period of the exclusion and check each new account opening against this. Seems very easy if it's just email address changed!!

Yep the rule change will make things much better and fairer.

Thats a failing with gamstop. If a customer SE's from the casino direct, then the casino most certainly should pick up on slightly changed details, if its gamstop then all they should get is yes/no, so they never actually see the customer details gamstop holds. However from reading this thread, it seems LV do have access to the gamstop database possibly. Maybe their rep could confirm that?

 

[EkJR]

Thats a failing with gamstop. If a customer SE's from the casino direct, then the casino most certainly should pick up on slightly changed details, if its gamstop then all they should get is yes/no, so they never actually see the customer details gamstop holds. However from reading this thread, it seems LV do have access to the gamstop database possibly. Maybe their rep could confirm that?

They definitely don't. Any Gamstop case I have seen the casino asks the player to cc them on an email to Gamstop requesting the info held. The OP had said that he had already been excluded from the group, that's why I think this issue is two fold. Just to add fuel to the fire, I am excluded from LV and on Gamstop and have been able to open an account on Pink casino right now under a different email add. So obviously something totally fucked up there.

 

[xexe]

Playing devil's advocate here to an extent, but how is a casino who lets you deposit and as soon as you do, takes your money, worse than a casino that lets you make 14 deposits? As I can guarantee he wouldn't have been paid had he won (and rightly so) but they have refused the deposits back too?

That's true I suppose. It's just that they didn't shut him off right away and they let him create the account and as soon as he made the deposit, they took the money and closed his account. Seems to me like they knew he was excluded and intentionally waited for the moment he made the deposit. LV at least has the argument that they weren't required to confirm any info for 72 hours (if I understood it correctly). That is IF they are right about how much info OP faked.

Even at that, changing one detail you still expect the casinos system to flag them. According to their licence requirements they must hold a log of all excluded players for the period of the exclusion and check each new account opening against this. Seems very easy if it's just email address changed!!

Yep the rule change will make things much better and fairer.

I feel like such an antagonist but if I too can play the devil's advocate a little longer... There is conflicting information here and the gambling site is the only party that definitely holds the truth in their hands seeing as OP is banned from entering the site by now and can't double check if he really did give the exact right info (perhaps he misspelled something?). It would be interesting if somebody else from the UK who's self-excluded would make an account with LeoVegas where ALL the information corresponded PERFECTLY with the Gamestop info EXCEPT for just the email. If anybody successfully does that, I will go ahead and apologize to the OP for even doubting him.

 

[EkJR]

That's true I suppose. It's just that they didn't shut him off right away and they let him create the account and as soon as he made the deposit, they took the money and closed his account. Seems to me like they knew he was excluded and intentionally waited for the moment he made the deposit. LV at least has the argument that they weren't required to confirm any info for 72 hours (if I understood it correctly). That is IF they are right about how much info OP faked.




I feel like such an antagonist but if I too can play the devil's advocate a little longer... There is conflicting information here and the gambling site is the only party that definitely holds the truth in their hands seeing as OP is banned from entering the site by now and can't double check if he really did give the exact right info (perhaps he misspelled something?). It would be interesting if somebody else from the UK who's self-excluded would make an account with LeoVegas where ALL the information corresponded PERFECTLY with the Gamestop info EXCEPT for just the email. If anybody successfully does that, I will go ahead and apologize to the OP for even doubting him.

Two things at play here. GAMSTOP is one but the casino MUST have their own exclusion restrictions in place. They obviously haven't caught the OP's account details against their excluded register. Seems to be a check missing. The 72 hour thing is from first deposit and all UK Casinos must follow that.

 

[xexe]

Two things at play here. GAMSTOP is one but the casino MUST have their own exclusion restrictions in place. They obviously haven't caught the OP's account details against their excluded register. Seems to be a check missing. The 72 hour thing is from first deposit and all UK Casinos must follow that.

I think you're missing my point. I'm saying IF the OP actually did change the amount of info that the casino claims he did, they haven't done anything wrong. I'm not saying I believe the casino, but IF OP did create a 2nd account, changed his email, lied about his date of birth, lied about his address his address; then how could they possibly know it was him? Just if we play with the thought that the casino is telling the truth.

 

[EkJR]

I think you're missing my point. I'm saying IF the OP actually did change the amount of info that the casino claims he did, they haven't done anything wrong. I'm not saying I believe the casino, but IF OP did create a 2nd account, changed his email, lied about his date of birth, lied about his address his address; then how could they possibly know it was him? Just if we play with the thought that the casino is telling the truth.

Yeah but as said earlier in the thread the definitely have issues with checking SE players as has been seen in a number for player issues within the past week.

 

[xexe]

Yeah but as said earlier in the thread the definitely have issues with checking SE players as has been seen in a number for player issues within the past week.

The UKGC should just have an employee (who doesn't gamble) self exclude themselves and try to sign up to sites while literally only changing the email and while all other info corresponds with Gamestop. That would be the best way to catch these sites and it would take no-time. Could be a temporary solution until May.

 

[colinsunderland]

They definitely don't. Any Gamstop case I have seen the casino asks the player to cc them on an email to Gamstop requesting the info held. The OP had said that he had already been excluded from the group, that's why I think this issue is two fold. Just to add fuel to the fire, I am excluded from LV and on Gamstop and have been able to open an account on Pink casino right now under a different email add. So obviously something totally fucked up there.

I had thought of that, but from reading the OP's posts he was complaining about being able to create an account while self excluded through gamstop. The casino apparently responded they didn't pick up the self exclusion as he used a different DOB and Address. Therefore to know that, and it would explain why the 'investigation' took a week, Gamstop must have supplied customer details to LeoVegas, or at least disclosed more than a yes/no answer as to the question 'is this customer under s self exclusion agreement'. If they were meaning it was different to the previous LV account, then why not mention the Gamstop issue too as that is what the basis for complaint was, and if it were internal, then they could have done their investigation in 10 minutes, not 7 days.

 

[Tirilej]

I had thought of that, but from reading the OP's posts he was complaining about being able to create an account while self excluded through gamstop. The casino apparently responded they didn't pick up the self exclusion as he used a different DOB and Address. Therefore to know that, and it would explain why the 'investigation' took a week, Gamstop must have supplied customer details to LeoVegas, or at least disclosed more than a yes/no answer as to the question 'is this customer under s self exclusion agreement'. If they were meaning it was different to the previous LV account, then why not mention the Gamstop issue too as that is what the basis for complaint was, and if it were internal, then they could have done their investigation in 10 minutes, not 7 days.

I don't want to go through all pages again but I also remember he said he had self excluded from the casino before. I maybe can take the time and go back and read tomorrow.

 

[colinsunderland]

I don't want to go through all pages again but I also remember he said he had self excluded from the casino before. I maybe can take the time and go back and read tomorrow.

Yes he did, hence the part of my post about if it was the LV account they meant, then they should have also referenced the gamstop problem and it shouldn't have taken a week

 

[Scott1baird]

Whether or not the OP just wants his deposits back after a bad day isn't really the case here, its whether or not the casino lied, that's what this is about nothing more nothing less.

 

[EkJR]

Whether or not the OP just wants his deposits back after a bad day isn't really the case here, its whether or not the casino lied, that's what this is about nothing more nothing less.

Think that's why the SAR is being asked for. Unfortunately will take around 30 days for the data from the casino.

 

[Ginogenelli]

Hi all

Just a quick update on this. I submitted a PAB which Max kindly took up. The PAB was unsuccessful as LeoVegas refused to payout because they said I signed up with details different to my Gamstop.

I disputed this massively. So i requested a SAR thanks to advice from some members on this forum.

Anyway the SAR came through and everything was exactly how I thought it was. Only the email address was different. I was about to fire an email off to leovegas and I thought I'd go through the SAR again with a fine toothpick.
On closer inspection it turns out I'd also inputted the wrong dob also. I'd actually put the DOB as 2 days after my actual birthday.
So I was actually in the wrong. I did this unintentionally, however I can't blame leovegas.
I was the one at fault here. Both my email address and DOB were incorrect.

On reflection I'd just like to thank all the forum members who listened to my side of the story, offered me good advice and trusted me. I really appreciate it and think it's brilliant that there's a core of forum members that will immediately back the player regardless their post count.
Also thanks to max for taking up his own time and looking into this for me.

Id also like to apologise to leovegas for dragging this up and being so gung ho in my accusations towards their failings. I hold my hands up, I put in different crucial details and that is why I slipped through the net.

Thanks all

 

[Ginogenelli]

Cheers to colinsunderland and EkJR in particular. Sound advice and non judgemental

 

[EkJR]

Hi all

Just a quick update on this. I submitted a PAB which Max kindly took up. The PAB was unsuccessful as LeoVegas refused to payout because they said I signed up with details different to my Gamstop.

I disputed this massively. So i requested a SAR thanks to advice from some members on this forum.

Anyway the SAR came through and everything was exactly how I thought it was. Only the email address was different. I was about to fire an email off to leovegas and I thought I'd go through the SAR again with a fine toothpick.
On closer inspection it turns out I'd also inputted the wrong dob also. I'd actually put the DOB as 2 days after my actual birthday.
So I was actually in the wrong. I did this unintentionally, however I can't blame leovegas.
I was the one at fault here. Both my email address and DOB were incorrect.

On reflection I'd just like to thank all the forum members who listened to my side of the story, offered me good advice and trusted me. I really appreciate it and think it's brilliant that there's a core of forum members that will immediately back the player regardless their post count.
Also thanks to max for taking up his own time and looking into this for me.

Id also like to apologise to leovegas for dragging this up and being so gung ho in my accusations towards their failings. I hold my hands up, I put in different crucial details and that is why I slipped through the net.

Thanks all

Did they verify your account with the wrong DOB?

 

[Ginogenelli]

Account was never actually verified. I was a member there for less than 24 hours before I self excluded.

 

[EkJR]

Account was never actually verified. I was a member there for less than 24 hours before I self excluded.

Ah ok. Sorry you didn't get further with it and all the best for the future. 7th of May will be a good day for you as you won't be able to deposit a penny without being verified.

 

[colinsunderland]

Anyway the SAR came through and everything was exactly how I thought it was. Only the email address was different. I was about to fire an email off to leovegas and I thought I'd go through the SAR again with a fine toothpick.
On closer inspection it turns out I'd also inputted the wrong dob also. I'd actually put the DOB as 2 days after my actual birthday.
So I was actually in the wrong. I did this unintentionally, however I can't blame leovegas.
I was the one at fault here. Both my email address and DOB were incorrect.

@Mr Wild who works for Videoslots, therefore is well placed to comment on things like this, stated earlier in the thread, 3 out the 5 fields matching will trigger a positive response from Gamstop, which is also what Gamstop told me and others. If the only things that were changed were your email address and DOB, then there should have still been matches on 3/5 and therefore the SE should have been picked up surely?

 

[Nicola]

@colinsunderland There are still big flaws in the system. Earlier this week I had a guy who telephoned in tears after signing up to LV using his real name and date of birth. He used a new e-mail address and his grandmothers postal address. He lost over £5k.

They had appoved his account because his bank statements were genuine and because they were delivered to his grandmothers postal address.

 

[colinsunderland]

@colinsunderland There are still big flaws in the system. Earlier this week I had a guy who telephoned in tears after signing up to LV using his real name and date of birth. He used a new e-mail address and his grandmothers postal address. He lost over £5k.

They had appoved his account because his bank statements were genuine and because they were delivered to his grandmothers postal address.

Using a different address is always going to cause problems I would imagine, as there will be other people (in a lot of cases) with the same name and DOB.
Email address and phone number should be disregarded as they can be changed far too easily. I have unlimited email addresses, of which very very few have been used at more than one casino, so instantly, me signing up to Gamstop would fail one check on login. I also have 2 phones and could get a new number in about 10 minutes.
Funny how it was another LV customer though, loads of threads about their RG failings recently. Other major license holders don't get anywhere near the same amount of complaints on forums and suchlike it seems, none of the major bookies, all of who have much larger customer bases than LV, Casumo, probably around the same, BGO etc.

 

[EkJR]

@Mr Wild who works for Videoslots, therefore is well placed to comment on things like this, stated earlier in the thread, 3 out the 5 fields matching will trigger a positive response from Gamstop, which is also what Gamstop told me and others. If the only things that were changed were your email address and DOB, then there should have still been matches on 3/5 and therefore the SE should have been picked up surely?

If this is true then I know about 20 cases that need to be reopened for people. Will need confirmation of that.