- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Yep, don't comment if anything ongoing.
Gamstop and the popular online casino
- Thread starter Ginogenelli
- Start date
Yep, don't comment if anything ongoing.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2018
- Location
- Sweden
It sounds on OP like it all happened in 1 day and that he wanted the money back the very next morning, so it hadn't gone 72 hours.
Was it with the rule of having to verify identification within 72 hours? In that case, I guess they are at fault. But in the end, I think the UK needs to upgrade their system. What system do you use to identify yourself online to do for example online banking? Apply that to gambling sites and it would solve literally all these problems. When I sign up to a gambling site, I just push my fingerprint on my phone and they instantly get my name, address and all the information needed. Ever since the 1st of january this year, I never need to send passport pictures, proof of adress, bank statements etc. I don't even have the option to circumvent the system or creating a 2nd account by using false info. If I exclude myself, I'm out unless I can convince somebody else to make an account for me and make deposits for me from their bank account.
So while yes, it's a shitty situation for all parties, I think it can be difficult for gambling sites to catch every single person who intentionally gives the wrong info. But like you said, the rules are changing in May so that's something at least.
I would bet it is LV. Clicked the OPs profile and he follows the LeoVegas rep.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Playing devil's advocate here to an extent, but how is a casino who lets you deposit and as soon as you do, takes your money, worse than a casino that lets you make 14 deposits? As I can guarantee he wouldn't have been paid had he won (and rightly so) but they have refused the deposits back too?
Which he would 100% lose.
It is, the OP confirmed it earlier in the thread.
OP you need to stop posting now, or your PAB will fail. Seriously, stop.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Even at that, changing one detail you still expect the casinos system to flag them. According to their licence requirements they must hold a log of all excluded players for the period of the exclusion and check each new account opening against this. Seems very easy if it's just email address changed!!
Yep the rule change will make things much better and fairer.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Thats a failing with gamstop. If a customer SE's from the casino direct, then the casino most certainly should pick up on slightly changed details, if its gamstop then all they should get is yes/no, so they never actually see the customer details gamstop holds. However from reading this thread, it seems LV do have access to the gamstop database possibly. Maybe their rep could confirm that?
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
They definitely don't. Any Gamstop case I have seen the casino asks the player to cc them on an email to Gamstop requesting the info held. The OP had said that he had already been excluded from the group, that's why I think this issue is two fold. Just to add fuel to the fire, I am excluded from LV and on Gamstop and have been able to open an account on Pink casino right now under a different email add. So obviously something totally fucked up there.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2018
- Location
- Sweden
That's true I suppose. It's just that they didn't shut him off right away and they let him create the account and as soon as he made the deposit, they took the money and closed his account. Seems to me like they knew he was excluded and intentionally waited for the moment he made the deposit. LV at least has the argument that they weren't required to confirm any info for 72 hours (if I understood it correctly). That is IF they are right about how much info OP faked.
I feel like such an antagonist but if I too can play the devil's advocate a little longer... There is conflicting information here and the gambling site is the only party that definitely holds the truth in their hands seeing as OP is banned from entering the site by now and can't double check if he really did give the exact right info (perhaps he misspelled something?). It would be interesting if somebody else from the UK who's self-excluded would make an account with LeoVegas where ALL the information corresponded PERFECTLY with the Gamestop info EXCEPT for just the email. If anybody successfully does that, I will go ahead and apologize to the OP for even doubting him.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Two things at play here. GAMSTOP is one but the casino MUST have their own exclusion restrictions in place. They obviously haven't caught the OP's account details against their excluded register. Seems to be a check missing. The 72 hour thing is from first deposit and all UK Casinos must follow that.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2018
- Location
- Sweden
I think you're missing my point. I'm saying IF the OP actually did change the amount of info that the casino claims he did, they haven't done anything wrong. I'm not saying I believe the casino, but IF OP did create a 2nd account, changed his email, lied about his date of birth, lied about his address his address; then how could they possibly know it was him? Just if we play with the thought that the casino is telling the truth.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Yeah but as said earlier in the thread the definitely have issues with checking SE players as has been seen in a number for player issues within the past week.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2018
- Location
- Sweden
The UKGC should just have an employee (who doesn't gamble) self exclude themselves and try to sign up to sites while literally only changing the email and while all other info corresponds with Gamestop. That would be the best way to catch these sites and it would take no-time. Could be a temporary solution until May.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
I had thought of that, but from reading the OP's posts he was complaining about being able to create an account while self excluded through gamstop. The casino apparently responded they didn't pick up the self exclusion as he used a different DOB and Address. Therefore to know that, and it would explain why the 'investigation' took a week, Gamstop must have supplied customer details to LeoVegas, or at least disclosed more than a yes/no answer as to the question 'is this customer under s self exclusion agreement'. If they were meaning it was different to the previous LV account, then why not mention the Gamstop issue too as that is what the basis for complaint was, and if it were internal, then they could have done their investigation in 10 minutes, not 7 days.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2009
- Location
- Sweden
I don't want to go through all pages again but I also remember he said he had self excluded from the casino before. I maybe can take the time and go back and read tomorrow.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Yes he did, hence the part of my post about if it was the LV account they meant, then they should have also referenced the gamstop problem and it shouldn't have taken a week
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2018
- Location
- Isle of Bute Scotland
Whether or not the OP just wants his deposits back after a bad day isn't really the case here, its whether or not the casino lied, that's what this is about nothing more nothing less.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Think that's why the SAR is being asked for. Unfortunately will take around 30 days for the data from the casino.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2017
- Location
- Uk
Hi all
Just a quick update on this. I submitted a PAB which Max kindly took up. The PAB was unsuccessful as LeoVegas refused to payout because they said I signed up with details different to my Gamstop.
I disputed this massively. So i requested a SAR thanks to advice from some members on this forum.
Anyway the SAR came through and everything was exactly how I thought it was. Only the email address was different. I was about to fire an email off to leovegas and I thought I'd go through the SAR again with a fine toothpick.
On closer inspection it turns out I'd also inputted the wrong dob also. I'd actually put the DOB as 2 days after my actual birthday.
So I was actually in the wrong. I did this unintentionally, however I can't blame leovegas.
I was the one at fault here. Both my email address and DOB were incorrect.
On reflection I'd just like to thank all the forum members who listened to my side of the story, offered me good advice and trusted me. I really appreciate it and think it's brilliant that there's a core of forum members that will immediately back the player regardless their post count.
Also thanks to max for taking up his own time and looking into this for me.
Id also like to apologise to leovegas for dragging this up and being so gung ho in my accusations towards their failings. I hold my hands up, I put in different crucial details and that is why I slipped through the net.
Thanks all
Just a quick update on this. I submitted a PAB which Max kindly took up. The PAB was unsuccessful as LeoVegas refused to payout because they said I signed up with details different to my Gamstop.
I disputed this massively. So i requested a SAR thanks to advice from some members on this forum.
Anyway the SAR came through and everything was exactly how I thought it was. Only the email address was different. I was about to fire an email off to leovegas and I thought I'd go through the SAR again with a fine toothpick.
On closer inspection it turns out I'd also inputted the wrong dob also. I'd actually put the DOB as 2 days after my actual birthday.
So I was actually in the wrong. I did this unintentionally, however I can't blame leovegas.
I was the one at fault here. Both my email address and DOB were incorrect.
On reflection I'd just like to thank all the forum members who listened to my side of the story, offered me good advice and trusted me. I really appreciate it and think it's brilliant that there's a core of forum members that will immediately back the player regardless their post count.
Also thanks to max for taking up his own time and looking into this for me.
Id also like to apologise to leovegas for dragging this up and being so gung ho in my accusations towards their failings. I hold my hands up, I put in different crucial details and that is why I slipped through the net.
Thanks all
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2017
- Location
- Uk
Cheers to colinsunderland and EkJR in particular. Sound advice and non judgemental
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Did they verify your account with the wrong DOB?
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2017
- Location
- Uk
Account was never actually verified. I was a member there for less than 24 hours before I self excluded.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Ah ok. Sorry you didn't get further with it and all the best for the future. 7th of May will be a good day for you as you won't be able to deposit a penny without being verified.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
@Mr Wild who works for Videoslots, therefore is well placed to comment on things like this, stated earlier in the thread, 3 out the 5 fields matching will trigger a positive response from Gamstop, which is also what Gamstop told me and others. If the only things that were changed were your email address and DOB, then there should have still been matches on 3/5 and therefore the SE should have been picked up surely?
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2013
- Location
- Malta
@colinsunderland There are still big flaws in the system. Earlier this week I had a guy who telephoned in tears after signing up to LV using his real name and date of birth. He used a new e-mail address and his grandmothers postal address. He lost over £5k.
They had appoved his account because his bank statements were genuine and because they were delivered to his grandmothers postal address.
They had appoved his account because his bank statements were genuine and because they were delivered to his grandmothers postal address.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Using a different address is always going to cause problems I would imagine, as there will be other people (in a lot of cases) with the same name and DOB.
Email address and phone number should be disregarded as they can be changed far too easily. I have unlimited email addresses, of which very very few have been used at more than one casino, so instantly, me signing up to Gamstop would fail one check on login. I also have 2 phones and could get a new number in about 10 minutes.
Funny how it was another LV customer though, loads of threads about their RG failings recently. Other major license holders don't get anywhere near the same amount of complaints on forums and suchlike it seems, none of the major bookies, all of who have much larger customer bases than LV, Casumo, probably around the same, BGO etc.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
If this is true then I know about 20 cases that need to be reopened for people. Will need confirmation of that.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Oh the bigger ones are bad as well. As part of an investigation I was able to open up 4 accounts with WH despite being excluded by changing email address and being a day out on DOB. Betway verified me with a wrong date of birth despite holding an exclusion and after sending correct Photo ID clearly showing a difference. BGO, K8, Dunder also fully verified accounts(had to min deposit in each) after 72 hours despite wrong info again. The whole thing is a shambles. Actually brand's like Nektan, L&L, Everymatrix, Ladbrokes, Coral, Videoslots, Trada and most others are doing things properly. I was stopped from opening accounts based on a name and address match to an excluded account, this is how it should be!
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2017
- Location
- Uk
Yeah I think you might be right with that actually. I do recall Mr wild saying something along those lines and a quick skip back to page one confirms this.
Leo Vegas did also accuse me of using a different home address now I come to think of it. This is 100% false
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
- Location
- Ontario
I think that name and date of birth alone should be enough to call for further inquiries before opening an account. People move, telephone numbers change, and many people have more than one email address.
The most common name in the UK is David Smith, with just over 6,000 registered. Not all of them are the same age, or even of age. So let's take a span of 80 years and divide it evenly, and just assume they are all old enough to gamble. That would leave 75 David Smiths with the same birth year. Now using the birthday paradox, you could expect two or more David Smiths to have the same birthday.
Even with 10 David Smiths sharing the same name and DOB, how frequently do you think ONE casino is going to encounter more than one of them registering. Not so frequently that it would be difficult to make a further inquiry. All this assumes that some David Smith has even joined Gamstop.
Now, of course, if David Smith inputs an incorrect birthday, either accidently or on purpose, the responsibility lies with him.
The most common name in the UK is David Smith, with just over 6,000 registered. Not all of them are the same age, or even of age. So let's take a span of 80 years and divide it evenly, and just assume they are all old enough to gamble. That would leave 75 David Smiths with the same birth year. Now using the birthday paradox, you could expect two or more David Smiths to have the same birthday.
Even with 10 David Smiths sharing the same name and DOB, how frequently do you think ONE casino is going to encounter more than one of them registering. Not so frequently that it would be difficult to make a further inquiry. All this assumes that some David Smith has even joined Gamstop.
Now, of course, if David Smith inputs an incorrect birthday, either accidently or on purpose, the responsibility lies with him.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
"Should be", that's the pertinent point here. It isn't. Also they can verify players with a wrong date of birth and a wrong name in some instances. As said, a lot of good operators out there but some are doing the absolute minimum to prevent problem gamblers or excluded players playing. Thank God for the 7th of May when they actually have to do what they always should have been doing.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
BGO told me last year that my name and address provided was sufficient to pass verification. I could have said Theresa May, 10 Downing Street. How does that tell anyone that I am who I say I am? It's utterly ridiculous what some operators have got away with(or have they). Hoping I get the all clear to show the investigatory work I have done in the past 4 months. It probably won't shock people too much though when some of the operator names are mentioned.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
- Location
- Nottingham
Would it have made a huge difference if they had verified his account do you think?
Also what has changed since they now have to verify before deposit?
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Because they said only 3 of 5 items needed to match.
Yeah doesn't make a difference anymore as there is no dubiety over what they need to verify now.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
- Location
- Nottingham
So from now on if a casino verified a new account from the off and it turned out it was a GS registered person they have no liability?
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Those signed up for Gamstop in terms of the casinos would be liable for any losses incurred by the player but it wouldn't bypass. There is no way round it as long as normal verification is done.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
- Location
- Nottingham
So you are saying if an outfit has followed the correct procedure then all excluded players should be detected?
Sounds like a positive move if so
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Yes and by law they have to follow it now.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
- Location
- Nottingham
So it’s now a law, I did not know things had gone to that extent in terms of these new processes.
I wonder how long it will be before there’s a situation where a casino verifies a self excluded players account with a piece of verification information being different against GamStop.
Who wins then if the player loses or wins? Refund lost deposits? Pay winnings? Neither?
It all boggles the mind at times.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Oh it's happened already. Now up to 5 casinos verified me(as part of investigation). I used a wrong DOB, they asked for docs, I provided the docs, they verified. The docs have my actual date of birth.
I will name 3. Two other cases are ongoing so I won't say anything about them.
Partycasino - since admitted error and will "review further procedures.
Lucky Vegas - BGO company, admitted failing with auto verification system, working to fix
Daub Alderney- state that this was human error, will review procedures
I will advise on the other 2 in due course.
K8 Bet and Slotty Vegas(yes them again) did no checks at all, maybe they auto verified, but again it must have been broken. Zero response as usual from these groups.
All other operators checked so far either identified the exclusion when clicking the create account button or when docs came and they found and highlighted the DOB issue.
The rules are clear. If this happens then any subsequent bets made are null and void and must be returned to the player. But the casino won't know the player is excluded and can't stop the player winning, but they have to return funds if the player loses. This is because the casino alone have failed in their LCCP conditions.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
- Location
- Nottingham
Well fingers crossed to get refunded by the first 3 if they haven’t done so already, assuming you deposited of course.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Yes, they have all returned the minimum deposit that I made. I had to do the deposits to see if they would pick up on the payment method from the excluded accounts, none of them did.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
- Location
- Nottingham
Very interesting, good news, there really are many people on here with some serious knowledge and abilities, good work
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Think SlottyVegas probably have bigger things to think about after having their license revoked
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Think SlottyVegas probably have bigger things to think about after having their license revoked
Yep, all the lies over ownership told on here as well. The UKGC saw right through them.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Think SlottyVegas probably have bigger things to think about after having their license revoked
Is there a thread on here about this yet?
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
- Location
- Nottingham
Oh yes please do someone tell, I like a bit of scandal type story to be told. Licence revoked must be a pretty grave situation
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
- Location
- Nottingham
So let me ask you this EkJR.
I met a chap at a GA meeting yesterday (not been for a while but felt very positive afterwards) he has recently (since 7th May) signed up to an accredited casino here despite being on GS.
He won and was paid, obviously compulsion got the better of him and lost the lost and more.
He admitted when he signed up he put his middle name at registration which was not on his GS account. He also used a different email address due to believing he was SE from said casino previously.
His account was verified. The casino refuses to refund his loses with the “you circumvented GS” etc.
Now the interesting bit, his proof of address did not mention his middle name but it was accepted. They also state that GS check 5/6 pieces of info.
People here are saying 3/5 are sufficient?
They have acknowledged that surname, DOB, Home address and phone number all match GS.
I said I couldn’t answer what his position was but I know a place where someone will.
PS it’s not Leo Vegas or any linked companies.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Did the casino question the difference in name? Pm me the name of the operator as well if you don't mind.
They cannot let you spend a penny until they have fully verified an account, Gamstop or not.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2019
- Location
- Nottingham
Not as far as I am aware no re difference in name. I’ll send you a message shortly.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2017
- Location
- Uk
I signed up to leo Vegas using correct address, name and mobile number.
My date of birth was two days out. I used an old email address. These two were not on my Gamstop account so would have bypassed the system.
I tried to get refunded but no dice. Max also tried and again, no dice.
I have also been told of another big name casino that is currently accepting deposits off UK players without verification.
My date of birth was two days out. I used an old email address. These two were not on my Gamstop account so would have bypassed the system.
I tried to get refunded but no dice. Max also tried and again, no dice.
I have also been told of another big name casino that is currently accepting deposits off UK players without verification.
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