Problem gambler, on Gamstop, but allowed to deposit at Bet365

[prodigal5]

Hello

I have a long history of extreme problem gambling. This year I took part in a rehabilitation which culminated in me joining Gamstop. The Gamstop is definitely functioning.

I continue to have financial problems and recently I ´relapsed´, made an account on Bet365, where I managed to lose a low four figure sum, everything I have, within a few hours today.

Do I have any realistic prospect of reclaiming this money, since Bet365 is on Gamstop and shouldn't have let me register? I was fully verified at the point of depositing.

I'd be grateful for any pointers you can give me

Cheers

 

[DreamRJ]

And you signed up with the exact same details to Bet365 that you did with GamStop?

Your name/address/email/phone number all matched?

If that was the case then Bet365 are liable for breaking the rules. So in that instance yes if Bet365 is in breach of those rules then they have to do a full refund of all deposits minus winnings.

Good Luck and keep us updated. You might want to do a PAB if you can answer that first question I asked honestly and truthfully.

PAB link below
Online Casino Complaints

Hypothetically speaking if you knew you could not sign up to Bet365 with your own details and used someone elses details then NO. That is a breach of the terms and conditions and is also fraudulent.

 

[dunover]

They have rep here AFAIK so PAB may not be necessary.

Well, accredited so should have one, if anyone can identify them!

 

[prodigal5]

And you signed up with the exact same details to Bet365 that you did with GamStop?

Your name/address/email/phone number all matched?

If that was the case then Bet365 are liable for breaking the rules. So in that instance yes if Bet365 is in breach of those rules then they have to do a full refund of all deposits minus winnings.

Good Luck and keep us updated. You might want to do a PAB if you can answer that first question I asked honestly and truthfully.

PAB link below
Online Casino Complaints

Hypothetically speaking if you knew you could not sign up to Bet365 with your own details and used someone elses details then NO. That is a breach of the terms and conditions and is also fraudulent.

My name and DOB were the same. My address, email, and phone number were different from the details on Gamstop. This was not done deliberately, they have all just changed since I signed up in May. I was fully verified first, including with my passport, and the address is within the same borough of London and almost the same postcode.

I'm not sure where that leaves me?

 

[prodigal5]

They have rep here AFAIK so PAB may not be necessary.

Well, accredited so should have one, if anyone can identify them!

It would be good to talk to their rep if anyone does know them, thanks

 

[Kroffe]

If there is such a big difference between the information entered on bet365 vs the information you signed up to gamstop with i think it will prove tough to reclaim any deposits.
Even if it was not intentional you did circumvent being detected by gamstop by using different information for the bet365 account.

That said you should of course talk to the rep and see what your options (if any) are.

 

[itsme123]

If memory serves I think sites will look for 4 out of 5 matches on registration when they do the Gamstop check so they will most likely look at this as deliberately trying to circumvent the block.
Why didnt you add/update the phone/email/address on Gamstop?

 

[DreamRJ]

My name and DOB were the same. My address, email, and phone number were different from the details on Gamstop. This was not done deliberately, they have all just changed since I signed up in May. I was fully verified first, including with my passport, and the address is within the same borough of London and almost the same postcode.

I'm not sure where that leaves me?

Unfortunately Case closed. You should have updated your new details on GamStop immediately.

You have now basically as a result of your actions lost your deposits. Well done for being stupid.***

Go and update your GamStop so you can not make this mistake again.

*** [maxd says: not cool, please don’t talk to your fellow forum members that way. You can say the same thing without being overtly offensive.]

 

[prodigal5]

If memory serves I think sites will look for 4 out of 5 matches on registration when they do the Gamstop check so they will most likely look at this as deliberately trying to circumvent the block.
Why didnt you add/update the phone/email/address on Gamstop?

I did not attempt to register only at Bet365. I attempted at several casinos all of which blocked me because I had self excluded through Gamstop. So I think if someone's name and date of birth is the same then that is detectable and those surely are the most important details. Especially with passport verification.

I simply didn't know you had to update your Gamstop every time you moved house or started using a new email.

 

[dunover]

If memory serves I think sites will look for 4 out of 5 matches on registration when they do the Gamstop check so they will most likely look at this as deliberately trying to circumvent the block.
Why didnt you add/update the phone/email/address on Gamstop?

My name and DOB were the same. My address, email, and phone number were different from the details on Gamstop. This was not done deliberately, they have all just changed since I signed up in May. I was fully verified first, including with my passport, and the address is within the same borough of London and almost the same postcode.

I'm not sure where that leaves me?

It leaves you up the creek without a paddle. The idea of Gamstop is not to provide people with no-risk deposits by circumventing their stored details i.e. "I lost, I'm on GAMSTOP so can I have my money back please?"

What you did is pointless because they almost certainly would identify your details as Gamstopped if you had won and tried to withdraw it. In that scenario you'd have likely got your deposits back only.

Bets should be voided upon identification, it is also your responsibility if you read the Gamstop site to update your personal details.

So you could have only drawn level or lost from the outset, you could never have won anything.

 

[Kroffe]

Unfortunately Case closed. You should have updated your new details on GamStop immediately.

You have now basically as a result of your actions lost your deposits. Well done for being stupid.

Go and update your GamStop so you can not make this mistake again.

 

[prodigal5]

It leaves you up the creek without a paddle. The idea of Gamstop is not to provide people with no-risk deposits by circumventing their stored details i.e. "I lost, I'm on GAMSTOP so can I have my money back please?"

What you did is pointless because they almost certainly would identify your details as Gamstopped if you had won and tried to withdraw it. In that scenario you'd have likely got your deposits back only.

Bets should be voided upon identification, it is also your responsibility if you read the Gamstop site to update your personal details.

So you could have only drawn level or lost from the outset, you could never have won anything.

That really misunderstands the addicts' mindset. I wasn't thinking ahead at all, my compulsive habits in this area are exactly why I joined Gamstop and I don't think it's too much to expect that a company listed as on Gamstop should refuse me entry based on my name and date of birth

 

[dunover]

That really misunderstands the addicts' mindset. I wasn't thinking ahead at all, my compulsive habits in this area are exactly why I joined Gamstop and I don't think it's too much to expect that a company listed as on Gamstop should refuse me entry based on my name and date of birth

Oh come on! You went round a plethora of sites until you managed to get past ID checks on one, then used the acccount to gamble with. So Gamstop did exactly what it should ultimately. Stopped you joining, when you finally managed to join a site you couldn't possibly win as you wouldn't have been paid. Making the whole exercise pointless and reminding you not to do it at all. There's no gambling if you can never withdraw a win, right?

Did you by any chance go through your list of sites using trial and error, changing one detail, getting spotted, then changing another until you broke through? Because DOB and name is not conclusive as people often share the same DOB and name, hence more filters are added when address, phone and email are taken into consideration which by your own volition you had different to Gamstop's.

 

[prodigal5]

Oh come on! You went round a plethora of sites until you managed to get past ID checks on one, then used the acccount to gamble with. So Gamstop did exactly what it should ultimately. Stopped you joining, when you finally managed to join a site you couldn't possibly win as you wouldn't have been paid. Making the whole exercise pointless and reminding you not to do it at all. There's no gambling if you can never withdraw a win, right?

Did you by any chance go through your list of sites using trial and error, changing one detail, getting spotted, then changing another until you broke through? Because DOB and name is not conclusive as people often share the same DOB and name, hence more filters are added when address, phone and email are taken into consideration which by your own volition you had different to Gamstop's.

No I didn't. I simply entered my details honestly. And that was enough to make Gamstop work at all of them except Bet365.

I really don't think your judgmental tone is very helpful given what I've written above.

 

[Mr Shine]

You clearly deliberatately approached this with an "If I win I'll withdraw, if I lose I'll yell GAMSTOP!" attitude. It's cynical and I hope you lose this deposit and either stop playing for real or stop trying to freeroll.

 

[dunover]

No I didn't. I simply entered my details honestly. And that was enough to make Gamstop work at all of them except Bet365.

I really don't think your judgmental tone is very helpful given what I've written above.

But where it mattered most, Gamstop, you didn't right?

Please start taking some responsibility here!

 

[prodigal5]

You clearly deliberatately approached this with an "If I win I'll withdraw, if I lose I'll yell GAMSTOP!" attitude. It's cynical and I hope you lose this deposit and either stop playing for real or stop trying to freeroll.

That isn't what happened. I did not expect a forum about gambling to be so ignorant of gambling addiction. You simply don't even entertain the possibility of losing until it happens.

 

[prodigal5]

But where it mattered most, Gamstop, you didn't right?

Please start taking some responsibility here!

Yes, I did. I wasn't aware you had to constantly update Gamstop with all of your moving contact details. My impression was you signed up and it found you from then on, as credit agencies can.

 

[Mr Shine]

That isn't what happened. I did not expect a forum about gambling to be so ignorant of gambling addiction. You simply don't even entertain the possibility of losing until it happens.

And if you'd won after you calmed down you'd have emailed Bet365 to say, "never mind about those winnings, I was on Gamstop"?

 

[prodigal5]

And if you'd won after you calmed down you'd have emailed Bet365 to say, "never mind about those winnings, I was on Gamstop"?

You are not here to make a helpful contribution so please take your hostility elsewhere.

 

[dunover]

That isn't what happened. I did not expect a forum about gambling to be so ignorant of gambling addiction. You simply don't even entertain the possibility of losing until it happens.

The forum is not 'ignorant' of addiction, far from it. They are very experienced regarding it therefore know the trouble addicts will go to, along with much chicanery and deception in order to achieve their fix.

Losing is possibly the best thing that could have happened, as yes there's financial pain but that should steel your determination not to fall off the wagon again and the hopelessness of throwing yourself off of it, as recently.

Had you won, you'd have spent it back until you lost and still be in the same position as now. If addicted, you don't win money, simply the means to fund the next session.

 

[prodigal5]

The forum is not 'ignorant' of addiction, far from it. They are very experienced regarding it therefore know the trouble addicts will go to, along with much chicanery and deception in order to achieve their fix.

Losing is possibly the best thing that could have happened, as yes there's financial pain but that should steel your determination not to fall off the wagon again and the hopelessness of throwing yourself off of it, as recently.

Had you won, you'd have spent it back until you lost and still be in the same position as now. If addicted, you don't win money, simply the means to fund the next session.

I didn't engage in any deception.

You do not understand gambling addiction at all if you think that losing somehow assists addicts in their recovery.

I am amazed at the level of pettiness and cynicism a post like this has generated in such a small space of time. I've come for advice on the legal and regulatory side of things, not unsolicited moralising that doesn't understand the mindset.

 

[Mr Shine]

You are not here to make a helpful contribution so please take your hostility elsewhere.

My helpful contribution is showing you the absurdity of your stated position. In your reply to me you're tacitly admitting you would not give the money back, yet you expect Bet365 to, because of a Gamstop account that has more incorrect details than correct, and the 2 correct details probably do not uniquely identify you?

 

[prodigal5]

My helpful contribution is showing you the absurdity of your stated position. In your reply to me you're tacitly admitting you would not give the money back, yet you expect Bet365 to, because of a Gamstop account that has more incorrect details than correct, and the 2 correct details probably do not uniquely identify you?

Then how is it that every other casino was able to identify me as being on Gamstop and prevent my registration? Someone's name and date of birth is clearly enough, especially after they've been passport verified. Where is your cynical examination of the possible motivations of a casino from choosing to ignore this, and allow someone who has self-identified as needing permanent self-exclusion from depositing £1645 within the space of less than 48 hours and with zero income checks?

I haven't tacitly admitted anything, you are just looking at this in completely the wrong way.

 

[dunover]

I didn't engage in any deception.

You do not understand gambling addiction at all if you think that losing somehow assists addicts in their recovery.

I am amazed at the level of pettiness and cynicism a post like this has generated in such a small space of time.

I never said you did engage in deception, I stated that the forum members are experienced in the propensity for addicts to use it on occasion hence their cynicism. It's part and parcel of addiction, woe-is-me and the illogical exclusion of all other thought processes.

Sympathy cannot help you. You need to take responsibility for your actions, not blaming Gamstop or Bet365 for failing you - you failed yourself, because as you said, you are an addict. That's what they do, in spite of safeguards etc. There's only so far the system can nanny people.

We have a quit gambling section here where you could find some help:

Special Forum Groups

 

[Mr Shine]

I personally know 2 people just in my own sphere of contacts who have the same name and were born on the same day.

 

[prodigal5]

I never said you did engage in deception, I stated that the forum members are experienced in the propensity for addicts to use it on occasion hence their cynicism. It's part and parcel of addiction, woe-is-me and the illogical exclusion of all other thought processes.

Sympathy cannot help you. You need to take responsibility for your actions, not blaming Gamstop or Bet365 for failing you - you failed yourself, because as you said, you are an addict. that's what they do, in spite of safeguards etc. There's only so far they system can nanny people.

We have a quit gambling section here where you could find some help:

Special Forum Groups

Yeah I think given my experience of how people think and behave on this forum I'll probably go elsewhere.

 

[dunover]

Yeah I think given my experience of how people think and behave on this forum I'll probably go elsewhere.

If you look at all the videos on YT, articles concerning recovery, the road ALWAYS begins with the first step, and that is to accept responsibility for your actions. Until you do, there's little any of the forum members can say or do to help. If you did get the deposits back, you would do exactly the same again, you've as good as told everyone that.

Sorry if you are disappointed because you didn't arrive here and hear what you wanted to hear.

 

[prodigal5]

If you look at all the videos on YT, articles concerning recovery, the road ALWAYS begins with the first step, and that is to accept responsibility for your actions. Until you do, there's little any of the forum members can say or do to help. If you did get the deposits back, you would do exactly the same again, you've as good as told everyone that.

Sorry if you are disappointed because you didn't arrive here and hear what you wanted to hear.

I started by saying I had engaged in rehabilitation and joined Gamstop. You are clearly very ignorant if you don't realise how demanding those things are for addicts.

I never said I would do it all again. Relapsing is normal in every addiction but with gambling it is extremely dangerous given the ease with which people can lose all of their money. I know these things from education and from experience, not YouTube videos. That is why Gamstop exists, outside of the customer's discretion. I think you should be mortified by the moralising to patronising way you've chosen to handle this when you know nothing about me or my situation except the hardship I've mentioned. I hope you find some help, too.

 

[itsme123]

Snip... overly offensive.

 

[Reelsoffun]

I try to avoid these threads, as they wind me up, but sorry I have to agree with everyone else’s opinion that this does smell very much like someone trying to get a free roll against the casino by playing the GAMSTOP card. And we have seen it here all before, not the first and won’t be the last, I do sympathise with an addict but you do have to take responsibility for your own actions GAMSTOP is not a guarantee to stop you, they tell you that in their terms.

As others have said there is no way you didn’t know you had to update your details, that’s standard on pretty much everything you ever sign up to.

Clearly you are also at the point where you maybe need to find someone you trust to manage your money for you as that sounds like the only way you would not gamble all your money away, and clearly you need to get more help, just being on GAMSTOP is clearly not enough.

Seek some real life help asap is my advice.

 

[cheekymonkey]

Most, if not all UK banks allow you to freeze gambling transactions against your debit card, so there is really no excuse here unfortunately. There are also a lot of ways you can minimise your losses these days. For example my deposit limits at most online casinos are absolutely minimal, anything from £10-£50, a MONTH. I can't do severe damage that way. I suggest you try it too.

 

[DreamRJ]

Most, if not all UK banks allow you to freeze gambling transactions against your debit card, so there is really no excuse here unfortunately. There are also a lot of ways you can minimise your losses these days. For example my deposit limits at most online casinos are absolutely minimal, anything from £10-£50, a MONTH. I can't do severe damage that way. I suggest you try it too.

Yeah but there is loopholes in that, you can still send money to your PayPal or buy crypto with it. So you could still gamble. You just can not directly deposit from bank into a casino. But you can still use third party method to bypass.

 

[winner2021]

@DreamRJ Paypal now allow you to block gambling sites-if you unblock you have to wait 3 days before you can make deposits again-just in case this is helpful to anyone (I think it's a fairly recent thing they brought in) I've used the feature a few times.

Anyway I feel for OP so not going to stick the boot in-but will say this site is very supportive but the onus is on personal responsibility which is the way it should be.

 

[teckiwi]

It's amazing gamstop even exists in this capacity/can force money to be returned in some of these cases, the UK is way ahead of the world in gambling/banking(scams etc) regulations.

I would suggest finding local group counselling if theres anything near you, generally at low or no cost.

 

[Webzcas]

I didn't engage in any deception.

You do not understand gambling addiction at all if you think that losing somehow assists addicts in their recovery.

I am amazed at the level of pettiness and cynicism a post like this has generated in such a small space of time. I've come for advice on the legal and regulatory side of things, not unsolicited moralising that doesn't understand the mindset.

Welcome to Casinomeister, even though your arrival here is due to an unfortunate gambling problem and your subsequent appeal for help.

Firstly as @dunover has said, the Casinomeister community know full well the issues surrounding problem gambling. The forum has seen first hand many people who have been affected by it, several such as yourself have come here looking for help and assistance.

I too have been registered on Gamstop since 2018, for different reasons to you, but the advice you have been given, whilst not what you want to hear, is very valid.

Gamstop is not a 'one fits all' solution, ultimately you are responsible for your own actions and as you have found out, being registered at Gamstop does not stop you from registering an account at a UK online casino, if your details used to register such account do not mirror those with your Gamstop account.

You have yourself confirmed that your address, email, and phone number were used to register an account at Bet365 were different to those lodged with your Gamstop account. Therefore I am afraid the chances of getting your deposits back, are slim to none sadly.

This is not what you want to hear, but it is being blunt the cold hard truth. Unless of course Bet365 relent and decide to refund your deposits, but the fact is they do not have to. So it is definitely worth speaking with them and see what they say.

Lastly, please visit

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and download and install their app on all your internet enabled devices. This will at least provide another level of security to protect you from your gambling compulsion and hopefully stop you in the future finding yourself in a similar situation to what you find yourself in now.

Good luck and I hope you are able to take back control!

 

[GourdFollower]

Hello @prodigal5,

You have an active PAB. As you remember from reading our Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures, we require that you refrain from posting in public while we assist you with your complaint.

Please see your ticket.

Regards,
GourdFollower
Casinomeister PAB Manager

 

[itsme123]

Snip... overly offensive.

Wow, seen it all now on Casinomeister. Overly offensive because I called someone out for trying to game the system?
Yet the OP was ok to call an admin a See You Next Tuesday.....

 

[L&L-Jan]

Lastly, please visit

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and download and install their app on all your internet enabled devices.

^ That advice matters @prodigal5
Betblocker is the best help to stop gambling. But you need to be honest with yourself: install it on all your devices.

 

[SYPlayer95]

Wow, seen it all now on Casinomeister. Overly offensive because I called someone out for trying to game the system?
Yet the OP was ok to call an admin a See You Next Tuesday.....

Cant remember what you said, but I felt a bit hard done by on another post, when a particular accredited casino on here allows deposits but won't allow withdrawals until SOW completed.

Regardless, won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[itsme123]

Cant remember what you said, but I felt a bit hard done by on another post, when a particular accredited casino on here allows deposits but won't allow withdrawals until SOW completed.

Regardless, won't lose any sleep over it.

It's just a bit annoying that I get a yellow card and told I am flaming when the OP can call an Admin a See You Next Tuesday and they still welcome him to do a PAB.
And my original post urged him to take responsibility for has actions....

 

[conker]

The OP never covered themselves in glory from the get-go, I am now aware of that. But gambling addiction can lead to terrible decisions and make people act desperately - doing things they would never really do if they were thinking clearly.

Visiting a forum and asking for help, however poorly delivered, does not warrant a pile on. How many members have to tell a man he 'needs to take more responsibility' to get the message? I don't know, but there seemed to plenty in this thread.

To be honest, I was away this weekend and I missed most of the conversation and had to catch up today.

Now 'Flaming' is against forum rules, so you were called out for doing so @itsme123

You got a warning and you should take it on the chin. You are not in any trouble, your account has not been restricted in anyway. But you can't go round hollering at people on the forum, its not allowed. If the guy has said something to @dunover then he will have taken appropriate action and dealt with it at the time.

The OP has started a PAB, so he can no longer talk about this matter and I have no interest in discussing it further. So I suggest we all move on and find something more interesting to do with our day.

 

[DreamRJ]

^ That advice matters @prodigal5
Betblocker is the best help to stop gambling. But you need to be honest with yourself: install it on all your devices.

But what good is an app when you can just uninstall it?

Can I just say we all get carried away sometimes and that is what problem gamblers do every time.

I am in control of my gambling and the last year since I started gambling again after that long hiatus I now use the tools that is available to be used. I mainly use either deposit limits or timeouts upto 6 weeks. I do not use them because I have a problem but because I just like to use them. We should not be asked questions why we are using these tools either.

Because that is what the tools are their for to be used right? Bet365 on the other hand are very very very over the top when it comes to responsible gambling and nearly every time I use the tools and need to speak to live chat for unrelated questions they always start by asking all the questions every single time. It is like they do not even record my previous responses when I have been asked the countless times in the past.

Then take for example videoslots. This casino lacks in even caring about annoying their players - so if one UKGC casino goes over the top and another does not. Which would you prefer to play at?

I do not like the intrusion because it makes us feel "controlled and watched" like a nanny state. I really do miss the old wild west days when the UKGC was not a thing.

 

[Webzcas]

You can't as a rule uninstall it, or I should say the exclusion period you chose when you installed it. It is not 100% foolproof but pretty much is.

Mod note: Talk of workarounds etc for BetBlocker will not be tolerated on the forum and as such will be deleted.

 

[DreamRJ]

You can't as a rule uninstall it, or I should say the exclusion period you chose when you installed it. It is not 100% foolproof but pretty much is.

Mod note: Talk of workarounds etc for BetBlocker will not be tolerated on the forum and as such will be deleted.

I honestly did not know how that program worked, I did hear about it but it never crossed my mind to actually google and find out.

So I was just curious, I apologise if it is breaking any rules asking. I thought we was free to discuss and debate things on this forum? What has changed may I ask?

 

[conker]

So I was just curious, I apologise if it is breaking any rules asking. I thought we was free to discuss and debate things on this forum? What has changed may I ask?

Nothing's changed. You just can't break the forum rules, that's all.

Debate all you like

 

[Webzcas]

I thought we was free to discuss and debate things on this forum? What has changed may I ask?

Nothing has changed. However, this forum will not be used to discuss potential workarounds to make responsible gambling tools ineffective. That has always been an unwritten rule, even when The Dude was running the show.

 

[hubbadubbadingdong]

If memory serves I think sites will look for 4 out of 5 matches on registration when they do the Gamstop check so they will most likely look at this as deliberately trying to circumvent the block.
Why didnt you add/update the phone/email/address on Gamstop?

Well if all information was updated on GamStop it makes it much much harder to open accounts …duhhHHHH

 

[DreamRJ]

When the OP said the post about "going elsewhere" it made me think will he actually get a different reaction and answers? I am guessing he knows he will not and he will probably end up getting the same reactions and replies he got from here.

We are not being rude to him and I do apologise for that post I made saying what I said. As the staff have said, we have seen this many times on this forum over all these years and we all know why people sign up to do these threads for.

I really hope the OP has taken what we have all said onboard and gets proper help and rehabilitation and maybe even counselling if needed.

I wish him all the best - everyone knows how bad addictions can be. If you have zero will power then it can be very very hard to stop your actions even though deep down you really want to stop.

Sometimes cold turkey is the easiest way to quit something for good. Do not decide you will do it in 2 weeks or a month or set a date. Just wake up one day and say ok this is the day and quit. I did that with smoking and drinking around 12 years ago and I have not relapsed once. I only vape now.

I thought I had no will power to quit smoking and drinking but it turns out I did. But I was mostly able to control my gambling (even though at times I did go a little to far - but I never ever gambled money for bills/rent/food etc)

 

[geordiecolin]

It says a lot about Casinomeisters tolerance and understanding when a new member can call a mod a see you next and they still try to help him.