Betfred Closed account - Refusing to pay £114k

[Megank1875]

Hi everyone

I opened an account with Betfred. I deposited only £175. I managed to win a total of £114k on a few online casino games

I attempted to withdraw only £4k from my balance but I then shortly after could not log in and had to call customer services

I called and was told that my account was closed and that it was due to GamStop. I have never signed up for GamStop and I have since contacted GamStop to query this

Betfred successfully allowed me to sign up with all my correct information to date passing any validation checks . Only when I have tried to make a withdrawal has it become a problem

I appreciate based on the info from Betfred and GamStop there does seem to be info of me on GamStop however this has not been done by myself & I had absolutely no knowledge of this until this withdrawal .

Whilst I don't have any details of who signed me up to it, my assumption could only be that it could have been a previous partner but I have nothing certain except that I have never signed up myself and I had no knowledge of ig

GamStop have asked me to verify myself now with photo id, a selfie & also a selfie with my id by my face

I can guarantee this type of identity check has certainly never been done by me prior to this

I was told on the phone by Betfred customer service team that essentially all my account balance is lost ( £110k plus £4k withdrawal )

Do I have a case and how is best to go about it

I have submitted a complaint as I opened my account as normal, passed any validation checks and deposited and played as normal. I never opted on to any free bets or bonuses either . The first time I become aware of GamStop in my name was after withdrawal when Betfred decided to restrict my account .

I played in goodwill & surely I don't just lose out because of something that was not done by me.

I understand people often may try claim things, particularly with GamStop if they are a problem gambler and been someone who has tried to find a way around things

However, this is not the case here. I was totally unaware and have never consented to any GamStop registration .

I am prepared to dispute this with GamStop & report with Police if necessary , but wondered if anyone had anything they could help or suggest

Whilst I'm fully entitled in my opinion to the full account balance I would also agree to a settlement purely because from my reading this could be a very complicated & drawn out process. Is a settlement figure a possibility or will Betfred stick to there guns & wait for me to proceed with some form of legal dispute

Any help appreciated
Thanks

 

[interlog]

How the heck did you manage to turn £175 into £114k!!!!

 

[Megank1875]

On adventures beyond wonderland

I managed to get up to around 6k.initially

I won £68k with a 680x win on 2 Walter spins with £100 on that selection

It all feels painful now as I'm told the funds are lost & I have no experience whatsoever in disputing this

Obviously to me I think surely they can't just keep £114k that I won fairly but at moment that is what is being suggested

Just looking for any help or advice on how to challenge this. I have submitted a complaint but again I have no experience so I'm not sure if I need a solicitor due to the amount involved

 

[Lemon]

Use the Submit Complaint tab along the top to open a dispute, and the good people of this site will look into it for you. Make sure you follow the rules once you've done this, one of them being that you cannot comment further on the issue while the dispute is being investigated.

Good luck to you

 

[dunover]

The problem here is that you'd effectively have to have significant proof that it wasn't your IP or machine that initiated the GAMSTOP ban and demostrate how it's possible for someone else to do this and why they would in the first place.

I've looked at the site and the very first part of their process is this:

Please use an email address that is not shared with anyone else.

You need to use a private email address as anyone with access to the email account could view any messages that may be sent to you or access your GAMSTOP details.

We will send a verification email to this address. To continue your registration you will need to click on the link in this email. After you sign up, you’ll receive an email confirming your registration and containing information about further practical tools and

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

So it's possible with your details that somebody could action the ban but if that was the case, you'd have certainly noticed by now with accounts at other casinos being refused or closed (along with residual balances being refunded to you) and when you'd enquired, you would have been given this reason.

Secondly for your story to be credible, for the above reasons, there would have had to have been a period of absolutely no UKGC gambling activity from yourself between GAMSTOP date and this win you just had. I suspect you have historically had accounts at many different sites before now yet have had no indication e-mails in the intervening period concerning GAMSTOP-triggered account closures and small balance refunds from them. So unless this alleged GAMSTOP occurred literally and coincidentally a matter of hours before your big win and now those e-mails are piling in to you, it's unbelievable that you would have had no idea prior to this.

 

[jeckiesz1]

Damn, you seem to have taken the luck of several thousand people by turning £175 into £114k!

 

[Webzcas]

Yes, absolutely and most definitely file a PAB here Online Casino Complaints

 

[L&L-Jan]

Strange they detect you are gamstop upon withdrawal and not during registration/login, as at that momen the check is done.

 

[jasonuk]

Oh man... what a rollercoaster.

As Jan has already said, GAMSTOP checks should be done at registration - so it's curious why this has been flagged now and not previously.

So it sounds like the Betfred side is straight forward. They'll obviously want an excuse not to pay out when there's £100k+ on the line. If the GAMSTOP registration is considered legitimate then there is no middle ground on their side - those winnings will be voided, no ifs and no buts.


So the question comes back to the GAMSTOP registration. A third party (be it a family member, friend, casino) cannot register on your behalf, only you. It sounds like you are already in contact with the GAMSTOP Contact Centre (listed at the very bottom of

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) so they are going to be best placed on how to proceed here.

To be completely blunt - ignorance will not be a defence here, if you signed up previously and forgot then it'll be entirely on you.

However, if there's evidence to suggest someone else signed up on your behalf then that should be enough to get it invalidated (but might be a tough journey, particularly if they had access to all of your documents). Natural paranoia would then suggest doing a credit check to ensure nothing else is going on, and filing a police report for the impersonation.

 

[Megank1875]

Thank you

I am in contact with GamStop just now to try get to bottom of it

My solicitor also has told me that there could be a case anyway as if I was on GamStop it should have flagged on registration and it would evidence that there systems are simply not good enough as my details are entered correctly

However, focus is on GamStop at moment as I 100 percent have not signed up or consented to anyone to do so. I have requested a release of all personal information held on me from both Betfred and GamStop

I'm not entirely sure what I need to do but the GamStop registration has definitely not been by me so I guess it's about trying to retrieve all info there to establish how that has happened without my consent.

Wether that be someone using my details or GamStop applying the registration without correct validation I honestly don't know but I do know that I did not sign up to it at any point

Thanks

 

[jasonuk]

My solicitor also has told me that there could be a case anyway as if I was on GamStop it should have flagged on registration and it would evidence that there systems are simply not good enough as my details are entered correctly

That path is very narrow indeed - because it would require that all of your details were a) entered correctly and b) haven't changed since the "registration". The terms and conditions of GAMSTOP are incredibly weak in that regard, and are pretty much "if you tried to get around it, you are on your own".

You would expect there to be a case to answer, but the terms and conditions on all sides are pretty locked down after self-exclusion fraud became a thing... and naturally the genuine cases lose out.

However, focus is on GamStop at moment as I 100 percent have not signed up or consented to anyone to do so. I have requested a release of all personal information held on me from both Betfred and GamStop

I'm not entirely sure what I need to do but the GamStop registration has definitely not been by me so I guess it's about trying to retrieve all info there to establish how that has happened without my consent.

Wether that be someone using my details or GamStop applying the registration without correct validation I honestly don't know but I do know that I did not sign up to it at any point

Thanks

As mentioned, you can't consent to someone doing it on your behalf. Although if you had (hypothetically), I believe it would weaken your position considerably because while the GAMSTOP registration may not be valid, the intent would be clear and both Betfred and GAMSTOP would take that into consideration.

Solve the registration mystery, and hopefully the rest will fall into place for you.

 

[Megank1875]

That path is very narrow indeed - because it would require that all of your details were a) entered correctly and b) haven't changed since the "registration". The terms and conditions of GAMSTOP are incredibly weak in that regard, and are pretty much "if you tried to get around it, you are on your own".

You would expect there to be a case to answer, but the terms and conditions on all sides are pretty locked down after self-exclusion fraud became a thing... and naturally the genuine cases lose out.


As mentioned, you can't consent to someone doing it on your behalf. Although if you had (hypothetically), I believe it would weaken your position considerably because while the GAMSTOP registration may not be valid, the intent would be clear and both Betfred and GAMSTOP would take that into consideration.

Solve the registration mystery, and hopefully the rest will fall into place for you.

Thank you. I'm trying to resolve the registration as I have definitely not signed up to GamStop ever. I've only just found out what it is

I've done a bit of reading online and my concern is that other people have said they have had difficulty with GamStop

I however don't know how genuine other cases have been, I can only speak on my own & there is no doubt here whatsoever. I have not signed up. I have requested all information held on me to try establish who has.

GamStop told me that a selfie is part of verification and always is. There website contradicts this slightly and says you can sign up by answering questions about credit file etc. so I'm trying to establish what details they were given on sign up & has someone managed to use all my details extensively including my id etc or has perhaps GamStop failed to do the correct validation and still put registration through . Either way, it has not been me.

 

[jasonuk]

I've done a bit of reading online and my concern is that other people have said they have had difficulty with GamStop

I however don't know how genuine other cases have been, I can only speak on my own & there is no doubt here whatsoever. I have not signed up. I have requested all information held on me to try establish who has.

We've seen the full range on CM over the years - people who sadly relapsed and thought GAMSTOP was much stronger than it actually is (it's a useful tool, but if things get bad you need to use GAMSTOP in conjunction with other tools and/or support networks), through to people who appeared to be committing self-exclusion fraud and thinking they could get one past the community (they didn't, ).

Part of the reason with GAMSTOP being restricted to the individual opting in perhaps comes down to the amount of self-exclusion problems caused by operators. Countless threads over the years of a person asking to close their account (because they don't want to play there anymore) and the chat rep either maliciously or incorrectly attributing that to a self-exclusion which causes a significant knock-on effect. Saying that, GAMPROTECT is becoming a thing and I expect the operator-led chaos to resume at some point...

In this case, GAMSTOP rules are much clearer - you and you alone opt in.

GamStop told me that a selfie is part of verification and always is. There website contradicts this slightly and says you can sign up by answering questions about credit file etc. so I'm trying to establish what details they were given on sign up & has someone managed to use all my details extensively including my id etc or has perhaps GamStop failed to do the correct validation and still put registration through . Either way, it has not been me.

That's the crux, and will be interesting if some of that information is wrong but still passed validation. Good luck!

 

[Webzcas]

I signed up to GAMSTOP many years ago, but as has been mentioned in this thread, it is easy enough to get around and should be used in conjunction with blocking software such as Betblocker.

I have also got around the block once ahem, to be able to stream an FA Cup match featuring my team Bristol City. Naughty I know, but it wasn't so I could have a bet LOL

Point being, if I did have a bet, said bet would have been null and void. The onus is on the self excluded individual not to get around the block provided by GAMSTOP. If you do, you will be found out and it will hit you where it hurts.

I have not heard of someone being signed up to GAMSTOP without their knowledge though.

 

[interlog]

I signed up to GAMSTOP many years ago, but as has been mentioned in this thread, it is easy enough to get around and should be used in conjunction with blocking software such as Betblocker.

I have also got around the block once ahem, to be able to stream an FA Cup match featuring my team Bristol City. Naughty I know, but it wasn't so I could have a bet LOL

Point being, if I did have a bet, said bet would have been null and void. The onus is on the self excluded individual not to get around the block provided by GAMSTOP. If you do, you will be found out and it will hit you where it hurts.

I have not heard of someone being signed up to GAMSTOP without their knowledge though.

I did right when it was first launched. Somebody got hold of a UK streamer's details and registered them at Gamstop meaning he couldn't play for a while. That was, I believe, before Gamstop put measures in place to stop this happening.

 

[Megank1875]

Any help on getting GamStop to communicate better. I have verified myself so they can talk to me however now they refuse to discuss anything via live chat or over the phone . Only by email . However as yet, I'm getting little to no reply from them via email .

Is it a waiting game or a way to speed up the process

Obviously resolving with GamStop is crucial to my case but as yet they will not give me any information which I find odd considering I'm verified who I am and should be entitled to all data held on me

 

[jasonuk]

It will be a waiting game I'm afraid. Email makes the most sense because they can't respond to you in real time, and they will want to make sure the right person (e.g. the data protection officer) deals with it.

 

[o3nur94]

Any help on getting GamStop to communicate better. I have verified myself so they can talk to me however now they refuse to discuss anything via live chat or over the phone . Only by email . However as yet, I'm getting little to no reply from them via email .

Is it a waiting game or a way to speed up the process

Obviously resolving with GamStop is crucial to my case but as yet they will not give me any information which I find odd considering I'm verified who I am and should be entitled to all data held on me

When I contacted gamstop to confirm I was not registered with them they said it could take 7 working days for the confirmation after I sent all my documents, however they ended up sending me the confirmation emails a few hours later

 

[Disconet]

in short, if this goes to court you will get your winnings plus interest. They can say what they want but they will lose.

 

[jasonuk]

in short, if this goes to court you will get your winnings plus interest. They can say what they want but they will lose.

No? If it went to court (which is a fair few steps away), the OP would still need to prove the case they are currently trying to prove - that they were not the one that signed up to GAMSTOP.

If they cannot, then the balance of probability goes the other way, and if they are considered to be the registrant then the GAMSTOP registration applies and Betfred will void the winnings. A court case is unlikely to change that because this is a requirement of their UKGC license.

 

[Disconet]

No? If it went to court (which is a fair few steps away), the OP would still need to prove the case they are currently trying to prove - that they were not the one that signed up to GAMSTOP.

If they cannot, then the balance of probability goes the other way, and if they are considered to be the registrant then the GAMSTOP registration applies and Betfred will void the winnings. A court case is unlikely to change that because this is a requirement of their UKGC license.

It doesnt matter, op was able to sign up and deposit his money, go through verification and able to place the bet.
The bet won. There is no foul play here.
Why is the onus on the op to prove he was on gamstop anyway, nevertheless time will show.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Any help on getting GamStop to communicate better. I have verified myself so they can talk to me however now they refuse to discuss anything via live chat or over the phone . Only by email . However as yet, I'm getting little to no reply from them via email .

Is it a waiting game or a way to speed up the process

Obviously resolving with GamStop is crucial to my case but as yet they will not give me any information which I find odd considering I'm verified who I am and should be entitled to all data held on me

If you have retained a lawyer, isn't it better to let them do all the communication with GamStop?

I hope you're getting somewhere because you haven't posted for a week now.

 

[jasonuk]

It doesnt matter, op was able to sign up and deposit his money, go through verification and able to place the bet.
The bet won. There is no foul play here.
Why is the onus on the op to prove he was on gamstop anyway, nevertheless time will show.

Because it isn't 2019 anymore... the rules regarding self-exclusion have tightened considerably in recent years because self-exclusion fraud became a thing. The scammers made things much worse for the genuine cases...

Have a look at some of the threads in the past year or two where people "accidentally" entered the wrong details on registration... they did the bare minimum to get around the filters (because no filter is going to be 100% perfect), then cried foul when the operator realised what was going on and shut them down. In some cases, the intent was clearly malicious - and the player was probably committing fraud.

Now-a-days the rules are pretty brutal to account for that, and the bar for an operator to demonstrate the player "circumvented" the block is pretty low - if you look into the various terms and conditions, it's a fairly piss-poor effort on all sides... and while it is marginally better than no block at all, people who have strong addiction will need additional tools - such as the support groups and technical solutions like Betblocker.

If the OP can't disprove the registration, then Betfred only needs to demonstrate that they "circumvented" the block with different information - which is highly likely if that information has naturally changed, or has been entered differently by one or both parties.

 

[Webzcas]

Also if it does go to court and the plaintiff loses, then they will not only be liable for their own costs, but also the costs of the defendant. As the amount being claimed is over £5,000 there is no protection as to how much costs they will be exposed to.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Just get Dazza to give you his log in and win it back on Bonanza. No big deal here.