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Your Input Please Can UKGC licensed casinos require photo IDs?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Casinomeister, Mar 8, 2016.

    Mar 8, 2016
  1. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Here's a question that has come to mind concerning KYC docs and UKGC licensed casinos. For some odd reason (perhaps the fear of an Orwellian world), the UK doesn't require its citizens to have a photo ID. Unless you are driving on the wrong side of the road, or coming to Tenerife to get pissed and trash the beaches - you don't need one.

    But all of the UKGC licensed casinos require folks to properly ID themselves, and this is traditionally done by providing picture IDs. Now, we have had a number of complaints in the past, and one ongoing one right now where a player is being requested to produce a picture ID. I have gone through a number of UK facing casinos' terms and conditions, and some state that they would ask for a photo ID, or they would have a third party get involved as in the case of Betspin:
    So my question is, how are UK players dealing with this? Do you know that you may be asked for a photo ID? If you don't have one, how do you deal with these rules? Further, should the casinos make it more apparent in-your-face that you may need to provide a copy of a passport or driver's license?

    Are UK facing casinos willing to make this requirement more conspicuous or pronounced? Or are they actually using third parties to figure out who people are? VWM will love this thread. :p
     
    3 people like this.
  2. Mar 8, 2016
  3. LukeC

    LukeC Online Gaming Affiliate Manager

    Occupation:
    Head of Affiliates
    Location:
    UK
    Third party verification is very common in the UK market. The You must register/login in order to see the link.. The third parties are companies like Jumio (I've no association with them - but they're the ones that seem to advertise most and I noticed bet365 use them) who can automate KYC. The two things that they seem to do are:
    1) Check customer details against publicly / commercially available databases, such as the electoral register. This is common.
    2) As an additional service, automatic validation that documents, when they are required to be uploaded, match account details and are not forged.

    The best thing to do is make sure you are on the electoral register at the exact address that matches your account and payment details.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Mar 8, 2016
  5. babyjoker

    babyjoker Senior Member mm3

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    This has been a bit of a random one for me since I started online gambling, some casino's accept birth certificate and some demand photo ID, an example is GUT's who will not verify me with my old driving licence as the photo is just out of date and will not accept a birth certificate, however Betspin accepted the birth certificate no questions and the 3rd family member Rizk rejected the birth certificate and said they need photo ID until I pointed them to there FAQ's that state they accept birth certificate's and then it was accepted! :what:

    You then have the big bookmakers who seem to electronically verify you and there has never been any mention of ID or proof of deposit method, this seems the best way as there's no hassle to the player and the company are obviously assured of your age and identity.

    Then there's the casino's that don't need to verify you until you withdraw over £2000 or thereabouts (Casumo as example) and then the other end of the scale the casino's that want you verified within 24-72 hrs of registration or the account is instantly locked

    It all seems a bit hit and miss and so I tend to stick the ones I'm verified at now or haven't had any problems in the past withdrawing, of course they also need to be accredited on here for piece of mind :thumbsup:
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Mar 8, 2016
  7. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    As a player my wife is facing an uphill struggle with this sort of thing as we speak.

    I am ok as I have a drivers licence with my mug shot on it, she does not and her passport recently expired.

    Funnily enough she has been on to Mr Smith Casino live chat this morning to explain her situation. The response was shouldn't be a problem as we do not need to ask you for ID at present!

    Going on to ask, 'What If I win big?' then the reply came that it could become a problem.

    Other casinos (accredited here) have offered compromise, suck as a birth and marriage certificate and extra personal letters, confirming name and address etc.

    Not all have been so lenient but have made efforts, Leo Vegas for example offered to accept the expired passport but only if the photo showed her holding it??

    Video Slots (IIRC) suggested obtaining a national ID card which would cost her/us £15GBP and possibly her balance whilst waiting as she does have the tendency for the odd reversal!

    She also spoke with her 'regular' casinos where these docs were used (but whilst the passport was still valid) about their authenticity not that the passport has expired and was more or less told, should be ok as your account(s) are already verified but if we hit a bump in the road then we will cross that bridge when we come to it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Mar 8, 2016
  9. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Well checking my credit file I see a number of checks from different casinos this past year. They dont leave a footprint so dont impact on a credit score but did validate where I lived and the data I provided matched.
    Its a bit of a liberty though that they do this without consent - as any other credit related check the 3rd party needs to make you aware of this. Unless of course its hidden deep with the casinos terms and conditions.

    Its a problem though if no photo ID but how many truly dont have either a driving license or a passport ?

    ps. Im sure VML can give us the full run down on credit agency ref check ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Mar 8, 2016
  11. TradaCasino

    TradaCasino Official rep for Trada Casino

    Occupation:
    Head of Casino
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    At the moment, we deal with this by requesting:

    - A photograph of the player holding their birth certificate.
    - A scanned copy of the birth certificate.

    This is enough to approve an account, however we do need to get it double-checked by our compliance team which can delay verification slightly.

    Also worth noting, if the player's birth certificate shows a different name (i.e. they have since got married and taken a different surname) we also require a copy of the marriage certificate.

    Thanks,

    Rachel.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Mar 8, 2016
  13. Mr Wild

    Mr Wild Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Online Casino
    Location:
    Malta
    Hello,

    I would say that its more the UKGC/EU which is quite stricit on that the casinos/or other operations know their customers. I would recommend people to read the below link to understand what happens if the casino dont take KYC and EDD seriously.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    This is even getting stricter with time as the new EU regulation will take place in 2017. Then you should do an EDD ( enhanced due diligence) on customer depositing or winnings more than €X amount within 24 hours period.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    You can read more about what EDD is here You must register/login in order to see the link.. The casino might ask you where you got your source of funds and other very private stuff which I personally dont really agree with. However all operations need to follow this.
     
    3 people like this.
  14. Mar 8, 2016
  15. CasinoRoom

    CasinoRoom Official Rep for Casinoroom

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    San Jose
    Electronic verification is the best way to deal with this and as it was pointed out the UKGC encourages this for remote operators. Jumio, Callcredit, Experian offer this type of check. A money laundering check does not mean you are suspected of anything illegal. The money laundering checks made at credit reference agencies leave an ‘enquiry footprint’ – an indelible record so that you can see who has checked you out. The enquiry footprint does not have any impact on your credit score or on your ability to get credit. In addition enhanced due diligence can be made to ensure payment options are on your name. A casino that is not doing this type of check is in breach of LCCP, (protecting children and vulnerable people and keeping crime away) there's no threshold for that.


    The following sources may, therefore, be useful for verification of UK-based customers: (You must register/login in order to see the link.)

    • current signed passport
    • birth certificate
    • current photocard driving licence
    • current EEA member state identity card
    • current identity card issued by the Electoral Office for Northern Ireland
    • residence permit issued by the Home Office
    • firearms certificate or shotgun licence
    • benefit book or original notification letter from the Department of Works and Pensions confirming the right to benefits
    • council tax bill
    • utility bill or statement (but not ones printed off the internet), or a certificate from a utilities supplier confirming an arrangement to pay services on pre-payment terms
    • bank, building society or credit union statement or passbook containing current address (but not statements printed off the internet) - bank or credit cards alone will not be sufficient as these do not provide either residential address or date of birth
    • confirmation from an electoral register that a person of that name lives at that address
    • recent original mortgage statement from a recognised lender
    • solicitor’s letter confirming recent house purchase or land registry confirmation of address
    • local council or housing association rent card or tenancy agreement
    • HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) self-assessment statement or tax demand
    • house or motor insurance certificate.

    On that You must register/login in order to see the link.you can also find criteria for use of an electronic data provider.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Mar 8, 2016
  17. CasumoAffiliates

    CasumoAffiliates Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos

    Occupation:
    Affiliate Mananger
    Location:
    Malta
    KYC is for security reason, having a photo ID is standard practice and if UK normally doesn't bother getting one that doesn't change the fact that we as Casino will need it to ensure we are able to fully ID our players.
    A majority of players are not required to do it at all. We run various checks in the background and in most cases that’s enough to determine the risk.

    However, players that are deemed low risk and remain active might end up getting a document request anyway due to regulations. That could be the case when you have reached a certain level of accumulated withdrawals, for instance. Most of the requests are made upon withdrawal but there can also be sample checks at any point.

    We just recently publish a blog post about this topic, and you can read whole text You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Mar 8, 2016
  19. Ange1867

    Ange1867 Newbie member

    Occupation:
    h
    Location:
    United kingdom
    Hello,
    This is my first post and its from a mobile so I hope it's gone to the correct place.

    I encountered this problem when I first started online gaming as I don't drive and my passport has expired. I applied for my provisional driving license which cost around £35 and this has been widely accepted as photo ID along with a recent utility bill for the casinos I regularly play at.
    I hope this helps
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Mar 8, 2016
  21. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Location:
    uk
    It just means the UK government will make more money from players without any photo ID.
    By them having to pay for passports, driving licenses and birth certificate copies.
    So, the UKGC is unlikely to change anything
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Mar 8, 2016
  23. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    This thread title brings back memories :eek:
    One of my first posts at CM was because i couldn't get paid due to having no photo ID and 8 years later its still causing problems, its surprising really because of all the advances made in the on line world.

    The answer is probably to get pre verified before depositing although it is still very hit and miss in what some casino's want,
    Ive been Electrically verified 32Red
    Ive had my birth certificate accepted as proof. Betat, Betspin Leo Vegas, Betsafe
    Ive been told i need a photo ID Mr Green, Video Slots and some others
    At slotty Vegas (Betats sister casino)ive been told i need to supply a photo of me holding my documents I didnt really mind to much about that as it was explained to me why.
    and in 1 case i was told they dont accept scribble written on a piece of paper (my birth certificate)

    Although in the UK now there inst really any boundaries in getting a photo ID with the citizen card
    You must register/login in order to see the link. but would casino's accept it or would they want a passport or driving license, it really is a guessing game until casino's tell you exactly what they want and it should be made clear in the T&Cs
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Mar 8, 2016
  25. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Ah this thread makes sense now @Maxd :)

    I've been asked several times to produce copies of a photographic ID in form of a driving license or a passport and have always provided them as a matter of course. Indeed whilst holding and possessing a form of photo id is not a legal requirement in the UK, there are times whereby you need to have a passport or driving license.

    Mainly when dealing with banks or most recently for me when obtaining probate for my late dad's estate. So by not having a Driving License or Passport, situations like this would indeed prove problematic.

    The Labour Govt under Tony Blair when they were elected in 97 tried to put through a law making ID cards compulsory, but it got defeated.

    Whilst we do not have an ID Card system for UK Citizens or Subjects that reside in the UK, I can however understand why online casinos, including those operating with a UKGC license would require one when performing the standard KYC check.

    Even if you have never been abroad or cannot drive, getting a provisional driving license is not really a big issue and doesn't cost the earth. Especially if it helps you jump through that hoop to enable you to make a cash out at a casino.
     
    4 people like this.
  26. Mar 8, 2016
  27. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    In this day and age their should be no need to submit either a photo id or any other paper document to any casino.

    That's the reason why you find the occasional post where a UK player was shocked at getting asked to send photo id and documents to casinos as the sites they had used before would never have asked it.

    All the large UK sites ie the main bookies, coral , William hill , Ladbrokes etc and casinos like 32red would not normally ask for any id of a player in UK unless they have a problem verifying the players identity.

    They must automatically verify these players are over 18 and who they say they are electronically before allowing them to play. And after that theirs no need to request ID as the player is verified.

    All the foreign casinos ask for the standard ID and photo ID. But to be honest they could also electronically verify players if they wished they just don't and the law doesnt say they need it just that they need to verify who the person is.

    If all the largest UK sites are happy enough to trust there computers verification of customers its good enough for any site. Just that would be too simple.
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Mar 8, 2016
  29. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    1. As a UK player I have played for years at some casinos like Sky and 32red and never had to submit photo ID/docs. This is because they obviously use automated third-party agencies on my behalf which is enough to satisfy the UKGC and themselves.

    2. As a UK citizen it's rare to reach gambling age 18 and NOT have availed yourself of photo ID in the form of a driving license or passport. Obviously there are a few people who'd rather gamble than experience foreign travel or getting mobile by way of a vehicle, more fool them. But they are a tiny minority.

    3. In my experience as a UK player, seldom do UK-based casinos ask for ID because they seem to use third parties like Experian etc. and can KYC you pretty easily this way - if they can't they do, as required, ask you to submit proof.

    4. Foreign-owned casinos which have a UK license nearly always ask, like say Guts. Maybe not at first, but certainly when you withdraw over a threshold. Probably saves costs for the one-visit one-hit player who never comes back.

    5. The bigger the casino, the more likely they are to absorb the costs of KYC themselves by doing it through third parties, rather than manually request docs and mess around.

    The question 'can UKGC casinos require photo ID?' is correctly answered with an emphatic yes - and to cover this it is ALWAYS mentioned in their terms.

    A more practical proposition may be 'DO UK licensed casinos require photo ID?' - in many cases no because they can exercise due diligence without it.

    My advice would be not to ever gamble online without it - after all the terms always specify it MAY be required.
     
    3 people like this.
  30. Mar 8, 2016
  31. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    Pretty much every casino does this on sign up. You are checked against stuff like voters roll/credit agencys/192.com/deceased register/county court judgement register. This has been happening for years. I have seen soft searches on my credit report as well from online casinos.

    As for picture ID, you are right you don't HAVE to have one in the UK. However like you also mentioned you do have to have one for going abroad, driving, opening some bank accounts etc things like that. I think under "things like that" opening accounts where you can move large amounts of money around qualifies. So I think show us your picture ID is a valid request to a UK citizen from an online casino.
     
    2 people like this.
  32. Mar 8, 2016
  33. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    I disagree. Plenty of people don't drive and haven't been abroad, so not sure why they should have to fork out for a passport or take driving lessons and pass a test (provisional license shouldn't be used as ID as the checks to get it aren't strict enough) just to be able to play online at a casino.

    One or two household bills (not mobile phone) and a couple of official goverment letters, like P60, benefit or pension letter or photo of both sides of a bank or credit card should suffice, if you can open a bank account, take out a loan, or get a mortgage with that type of ID then you should be able to withdraw at a casino.

    I also think the casino's should be more upfront with KYC policies. People talk on here as if its to be expected, yes it is, but not if you have never had an account anywhere before, or had accounts at firms where they verify your ID without you sending docs in. Is it really too much to ask to put a note on the registration page saying 'please note: before you can withdraw we are required by law to verify you are who you say you are, click here for full details' then link to a clear page of what KYC is and how to complete it. In fact if they don't verify you electronically then you shouldn't be allowed to deposit until you complete KYC.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Mar 8, 2016
  35. BETAT

    BETAT Online Gaming Affiliate Manager

    Occupation:
    Casino Rep
    Location:
    counting down until spring
    Although NRR Entertainment (BETAT and Slotty Vegas) take KYC very seriously we try not to undermine difficulties facing UK players when it comes to ID verification.
    As most operators do we are able to accept a valid driving license or provisional driving license, passport or a copy of the birth certificate with the player's face showing whilst holding the certificate. We use Jumio for ID verification and rely on their excellent service to accept or decline different forms of ID (apart from birth certificate!). Players from N. Ireland may even use their Electoral Identity Card for good measure!
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Mar 9, 2016
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    A private company has no power to "require" a customer provide something that does not exist, or that would not be available to them. This of course applies to UK licenced casinos accepting UK players. Players also have legal protection against "Unfair business practices" and also must be "treated fairly" by any business.

    Confiscating a win (having accepted all the prior deposits and losses) would not be seen as the customer being "treated fairly" if there was an inflexible approach that made it impossible for the player to meet what is required of them.

    The banks have already been rapped over the knuckles over the issue of too strict a requirement for documentation as it meant significant numbers of people were "financially excluded" from having a main stream bank account simply because they didn't drive nor travel. The electronic checking works so well because it has to stand in lieu of a national ID card, and of course needs to be fit for purpose.

    However, it does rely on the player making sure they register for the electoral roll, which unlike driving or travelling abroad, is actually a legal requirement, and theoretically one can be fined £1000 for not registering on the electoral roll.

    The ONLY approximation we have for an ID card, one that is purely a proof of ID and age, rather than a licence to drive or a travel document, are the privately issued "citizen cards". They are primarily used as "proof of age", but obviously need a photo of the holder to compare with the person using it when buying that bottle of White Lightning paint stripper at the local convenience store.

    It's mainly because a significant number of adults aspire to drive that most players are able to send in their driving licence as their "National ID card", however not everyone can drive, and a significant minority can never drive due to their medical conditions. They can't even get a provisional (without failing to declare on the application form) in order to please a casino.

    When dealing with a UK player, casinos should look at the rules governing their UK licence, and if they conflict with a licence from, say, Malta, then the UK rules should predominate.

    It's fine for a country that issues ID cards to all adult citizens to say that it's safe to say that anyone who can't present one is "dodgy", but this assumption does not apply in the UK.

    Passports are not compulsory, and if the EU had it's way over the UK, many more British players wouldn't have one. I would expect many European players only bother getting a passport if they intend to leave the EU, but of course they have ID cards, so it's not an issue casinos will have become aware of.

    In the end, a UK player can as a last resort get a passport, but if it's their first one, it can take many weeks, and involves a personal interview at a passport centre. Given that it's such an ordeal, it's hardly surprising that many UK players resent the fact that a casino has been more than happy to accept lost deposits for months, if not years, but then suddenly insists they go to all this effort to get a passport when they win because nothing else is good enough. No player wants to have their life changing win on hold for a couple of months whilst they obtain their passport when there has been no such problems in other aspects of their financial lives, to which the SAME anti money laundering laws apply as apply to casinos.

    Ironically, casinos even go out of their way to cater for players who don't hold a bank account, the financially excluded, by offering things like the former UKash and now Paysafe voucher system, even PREFERRING such options in a few cases, yet these are the same players who are least likely to ever be able to provide "photo ID", which is WHY they have to resort to things like UKash vouchers for all their online payments - they can't get a bank account, let alone a card.

    Regulated online casinos have only just been introduced into the UK, before that it was a free for all, up to us where we played, and the government would neither interfere nor protect us, nor make any tax revenue from the activity. If the problem of "financial exclusion" becomes an issue with UK facing casinos due to their insistence that the UK government should have issued ID cards in order to make the rules work properly, the casinos can expect the same rap over the knuckles felt by the banks, and will be told to use electronic checks in the main, and supplement these with documents that ARE issued to UK citizens, and in the combinations proscribed on the lists used by the banks for verifying customers. These lists provide for the fact that some customers will neither drive nor travel, and will ONLY have the "paper" documents from official sources.

    There is a suspicion that casinos are not always playing fair with UK players because they have to PAY for conducting these electronic verification checks, but it's FREE to source the passports and driving licences direct from the player, so there is only the costs involved with internal verification.

    One sign that casinos need to adjust to the UK way of doing things is all the complaints that have been upheld by the ASA over the "industry standard" methods of advertising bonuses and other promotions on websites and via email. These were "misleading" by design due to the fact that they needed to be "click bait", but this falls foul of advertising rules in the UK, where "click bait" isn't allowed if it gives a misleading impression of the offer as a whole that can only be seen once someone has clicked through. The ASA expects negative aspects to be given "equal prominence" as the positive aspects, which pretty much renders the standard "£1100 free - keep what you win" free spins offers that came for many Microgaming casinos unlawful in the UK, which is probably why I don't see them so much for UK facing casinos. Where I do, a ruling from the ASA is likely to follow.

    It's good to see that many of the UK facing casinos ARE moving over to electronic verification, however this can have the unintended effect of lulling UK players into a false sense of security, with those who don't drive or travel at risk of receiving a VERY nasty shock one day should they hit an exceptional win, or are marked for a random enhanced verification check.
     
    4 people like this.
  38. Mar 9, 2016
  39. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Great post VMW :thumbsup:

    Several years ago, before the the UK licensing, I had a big win at All Slots. My passport was out of date and I had misplaced the counterpart form of my driving license - I had my photocard license though.

    However, All Slots wanted the counterpart form in addition to the photocard license and would not release my winnings without it. Thankfully as I am an affiliate and was back then, I got Lloyd to sort it for me, without the need to request either a new Driving License or apply for a new passport. This would have been the scenario facing a player in my situation. Not good IMO.
     
    1 person likes this.

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