AVOID THE IOG GROUP - Casino Las Vegas, Swiss Casino, Magic Box etc

[jdblingbling]

I created accounts and deposited at each casino in the IOG Group (Swiss Casino, Magic Box Casino, Casino King, 50 Stars Casino, and Casino Las Vegas) receiving the signup bonuses offered on their website.

After I had made some wagers (mostly video poker) and had losses on four out of five of the casinos listed, I get messaged by "tech support" asking me to "log off" so they can look at a "technical problem on my account". Upon logging back in, my bonuses had been pulled from all of my accounts. I argue with chat support, and they tell me that I've been labelled a bonus abuser and by their bonus policy they can pull my bonuses whenever they feel. After arguing for a good half hour and finally giving up the ghost, and ask them to simply refund my entire deposits on each site back to my Neteller account given that I would not have made wagers had there been no extra bonus to play with. The 50 Stars Casino even TELLS me in live chat that I will at least receive my full deposit back from 50 Stars (which turns out to be a lie) I emailed the email provided in a different thread for escalated issues: accoutmanager@casinolasvegas.com. The rep Chris tells me that they will not give my my deposits back and can pull bonuses whenever they want and they say:

" I am sorry that we have not reached an understanding. I would recommend that you review our bonus policies and Terms of Use.

There is no casino, online and base, that would return sums that have been played and lost. As a real player you must know, a casino cannot return lost funds.

The IOG Casino group strives to provide the best service possible to all of our players, and that is why we are returning the sum that you didn't play and lose. Honesty and integrity are very important here, and for this reason we are returning your casino account balance. Our actions were completely in our right according to the bonus terms and Terms of Use with which you agreed when you signed up to play in our casinos."

As if they are doing me a FREAKING FAVOR by returning what HASN'T been lost at this point and closing my accounts. (Which I had to send them my license and multiple bills and have waited more than three weeks to even receive THAT from them).

I understand if they think I am not a profitable player and they want to lock me out of their site, that's fine. What's irritating is that this is an obvious bait and switch. If I had been a big winner, they would refund my deposits and close my account calling me a bonus abuser. Because I'm a big loser, they won't refund my deposits, they'll just pull all bonuses and close the account.

I have gone back and forth with management several times on this issue stressing that it is not about returning lost wagers (I've played plenty of other places and never asked for a single comp beyond whatever comp or rewards points the casino software automatically rewards me) it's about returning wagers that would not have been made without receiving the promotional bonuses clearly offered by IOG on their website AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY PULLED AFTER I HAVE LOSSES.

I've also done a search on this site and found several other IOG related threads. I suggest downgrading them to "Not Recommended" given their various problems, athough I'm sure the Casinomeister has a better grasp of the percent of times they resolve complaints.

 

[Graham]

A Reply from an IOG Representative

Our management is not doing you a favor, but what is our duty and privilege as a reputable online casino. Our management team and staff always do their best to uphold the Terms of Use and bonus policies that both we and you as the player agree to before you start playing.

We violated no condition or rule that is stated in our bonus promotional information nor in our Terms of Use. In fact, we acted according to rules that you and all of our other players agree to.

We will of course return the funds remaining in your casino account balances, but we cannot return funds that have been played. Our casino policy does not allow us to return the deposits of every unhappy player with losses or that disagrees with our Term of Use or bonus policies. However, we would never keep the deposits of a player who has had his or her account closed.

If you do not receive your the funds in your account balances in a timely manner please contact me immediately at graham@iogltd.com, and I will assist you.

 

[caruso]

Our management is not doing you a favor, but what is our duty and privilege as a reputable online casino.

I won't make any comment on this and the rest of Friend Graham's spectaculary unbelievable response, as I know how long my Casinomeister membership will continue if I do.

Which bonus term did this player break? None.

What did this player do in contravention to the rules he signed up to? Nothing.

1) Return this player's earned bonuses.

2) Pay him anything he's owed.

3) Close his accounts.

Anything else and your behaviour is no better than the worst, most disreputable, unplayable, dangerous casino out there.

JD: while there's nothing wrong per se with trying to bonus-hunt these Playtech joints, Jeeeeeeeeesus Christ why don't you show a bit of smarts and not do all the casinos in one group at the same time??? I mean, you might as well just email them with "I am a bonus hunter and I only want to take your money with positive EV bonus play" - it wouldn't be any less obvious.

Anyway, your incredibly ill-advised behaviour notwithstanding, you are owed your money in full here. Good luck to you, but please use a bit more discretion in the future.

 

[BBKPoker]

Reputable like "whoa"

I mean, as a disclaimer, I know JD, and pointed him to Casinomeister at my house, but seriously Graham. You are a "reputable casino"?

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/playtech-the-nightmare-list.10836/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/swiss-casino-casinolv-do-not-pay-6000.10806/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casino-king-took-my-money.11075/

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casino-king-denies-bonus-after-wagering-done.6896/

and any player reading this should be alarmed to play on your site after that kind of response.

 

[BBKPoker]

Also, looking at their sites, you owe him what? 4-500 tops in deposits?

For crying out loud, that makes no sense at all...

 

[jetset]

I can never understand why a casino group that objects to bonus hunters going after a bonus at every site in the group doesn't change their T&Cs to better reflect their policy

i.e. Make it illegal in terms of the T&Cs to take more than one signup in the group, and then indicate clearly and upfront which casinos comprise the group where this is applicable. Then there can be no misunderstandings or "working the T&Cs"

They could save themselves so much in the way of hassle and reputation hits if they did, instead of having a hissy fit and closing down a player who has de facto complied with their T&Cs, trying to screw him on the monies owed and generally shooting themselves in the foot.

Pay the guy what you owe him before you lock his account, for goodness sake - how hard is that?

Still, I have to agree that the player seems to have walked into this group waving a big red bonus flag.

 

[schankwart]

Urgh, Graham... How is anyone going to deposit a single more cent in your Casinos if you remove the balances (bonuses) without any valid reason?
Actions such as this will ruin your operation and I am glad that this player has come to public so others, including myself, can be warned.

While I was actually sad that I got put off Swiss Casino's VIP membership a longer while ago the new management obviously is completely untrustworthy.

Pay this player if you want to recollect any good faith!

 

[nafanny29]

I can never understand why a casino group that objects to bonus hunters going after a bonus at every site in the group doesn't change their T&Cs to better reflect their policy

i.e. Make it illegal in terms of the T&Cs to take more than one signup in the group, and then indicate clearly and upfront which casinos comprise the group where this is applicable. Then there can be no misunderstandings or "working the T&Cs"

This is a good idea but for the big groups that have 10 or even 20+ casinos how would you know/remember which casinos you have already played at. Im talking about the more casual players not the out and out bonus hunters.

It would be awful to sign up to casino no2 in a group in good faith, get a bonus and win and be denyed payment.

Surely they could match up your name/address and not give a bonus automatically.

 

[ebruduck]

Casino Las Vegas and Swiss casino tried not to pay me because I used their bonus and won too much.

The Casinomeister helped me and they paid.

I think that with enough complaining they will pay.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Not Good

I suspect they have invoked the "at the managers discretion" type of term. This means that even though no terms have been violated, the manager can simply eject the player from the premises without reason.
Many casinos now seem to do this to obvious bonus hunters, and doing all casinos simultaneously is not exactly subtle, especially with Playtech!

What would be really interesting would be to find another similar case, but where the player had won with their own money and not needed the bonuses.
If such a case was dealt with not by simply removing the bonuses, but by anulling all winnings and returning the deposit then the casino is not being fair in how this is dealt with as losing and winning players are not receiving the same remedy, but the remedy in each case that favours the casino.

If winnings are confiscated from winning bonus players who have not breached a specific term, then all original deposits must be returned to a losing player who has attempted to play for bonuses.
I'm afraid that casinos that behave like the allegations above do not have my sympathy when they in turn get screwed by players who have outwitted even these draconian and unfair treatment terms.
If such casinos seem more intent on declaring war by trickery on the player community it will only encourage the player community to respond to online casinos in a similar manner, something which is already happening with multiple account fraud with rogue players being more inventive in how these multiple accounts are created to pass security checks.

 

[dominique]

It would be awful to sign up to casino no2 in a group in good faith, get a bonus and win and be denyed payment.

Surely they could match up your name/address and not give a bonus automatically.

That is a very constructive suggestion.

Makes sense to me.

 

[soflat]

The casino should either:

a) state in the T&Cs that you cannot do multiple bonuses within their group,

or b) verify member eligibilty before issuing the bonus credits (unfortunately this means all players would have to wait for the casino to issue the bonus rather it receive them instantly).

------------------------------------------------------------
The player should:

a) learn to not be such an obvious bonus hunter (when you get your account closed you prolly won't get any good reload bonuses, duh!)

and b) learn to use the available resources to select more reputable casinos.

-------------------------------------------------------------
All players should avoid this group of casinos because:

a) the rules are too vague

and b) the operator seems to be using them to prey on some players.

 

[Vesuvio]

I can never understand why a casino group that objects to bonus hunters going after a bonus at every site in the group doesn't change their T&Cs to better reflect their policy

i.e. Make it illegal in terms of the T&Cs to take more than one signup in the group, and then indicate clearly and upfront which casinos comprise the group where this is applicable. Then there can be no misunderstandings or "working the T&Cs".

But of course casino groups want players to sign-up at as many of their casinos as possible, and even with as many false identities as they can come up with... just as long as they lose. Why go to to the bother of finding new losing players if one of them's willing to play at all your sites?

They want to have their cake & eat it - so they'll allow players to lose their deposits but then cheat winning players. It's pure theft, obviously, and this casino group's even willing to own up to it on an open forum

I wouldn't actually criticise the player's actions - it's often been the best policy at these groups to go through all the members quickly before they get round to banning you. If they've given the bonus they're honour-bound to let you keep playing according to their terms (& not the "we can do anything we like" one) - not to say most of them have the slightest conception of honesty.

 

[soflat]

When you receive a bonus, the first wagers are either bonus monies or deposited funds. That is up to the casino and has to be applied consistently.

But what we seem to have here is a casino that selects the option that best suits them on case by case basis.

If the bonus funds are wagered first, and the casino later revokes the bonus, the player should be entitled to all of his/her deposited funds remaining. So for example, if the player deposited $100 and received $100 bonus, but lost $50, then he/she still has $100 in deposited funds and should get that back when the casino renegs on the bonus offer.

Conversely, if the deposited funds are wagered first, then the player would only have $50 of his own money left in the above example. But if he won, then he/she would keep the winnings because he was risking his own money.

In this case the operator is inconsistent and therefore rogue:
1) For the casinos the player lost at, the operator is saying that deposited funds were risked first (deducting losses from deposited funds).
2) But for the casino the player won at, the operator is saying the bonus was wagered first and voiding his winnings.

Furthermore, the T&Cs do not even hint that players are not allowed to claim bonuses at multiple casinos. They even credited him the bonuses initially.

Unless there is more to the story it looks like a rogue casino operator out to trap players.

 

[MarcyW]

I just wish IOG would quit spamming me EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!!!

 

[jdblingbling]

I have filed a Playtech dispute (since IOG is ignoring my emails now). Should I Pitch a bitch as well, or wait for the result of the Playtech complaint? Any word on my suggestion to move this group to Not Recommended given all their issues?

 

[kreome]

The playtech dispute channel is a waste of your time

Pitch a bitch immediately and I think you should try the pitch a bitch before you try the forums.

I bet they are going to pay you finally.

 

[LisasLuck]

I just wish IOG would quit spamming me EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!!!

I second that!

 

[rtmlam]

This is a good idea but for the big groups that have 10 or even 20+ casinos how would you know/remember which casinos you have already played at. Im talking about the more casual players not the out and out bonus hunters.

It would be awful to sign up to casino no2 in a group in good faith, get a bonus and win and be denyed payment.

Surely they could match up your name/address and not give a bonus automatically.

I agree, I think it is absurd for a group to offer a bonus at it's casinos and later claim it's always abuse (when the player wins) if a player may take advantage of some of these offers. If you do not want to offer the bonus to all that come, make it clear in the terms at a minimum.

 

[Graham]

Hello everyone,

I would just like to clarify that the player was treated in accordance to rules agreed when the player signed up as a member of the casino group . Our management team took no action that was against any bonus policy nor any action that was against our Terms of Use. Of course we returned the balances in his accounts, but we cannot return funds lost while playing in the casino.

Sincerely,

Graham
IOG Casino Group

 

[soflat]

I would just like to clarify that the player was treated in accordance to rules agreed when the player signed up as a member of the casino group . Our management team took no action that was against any bonus policy nor any action that was against our Terms of Use. Of course we returned the balances in his accounts, but we cannot return funds lost while playing in the casino.

In one case you decided that the bonus money was played first.

In the other cases you decided that player funds were wagered first.

Is this group rogue yet?

 

[BBKPoker]

and you still have yet to explain:

You still have yet to answer the original question that has been brought up:

How can you possibly refuse to refund a player's deposits AFTER you've pulled their bonuses, and WHILE they were in the middle of wagering when those wagers would NOT have been placed had you not allowed the player to both sign up and receive a bonus?

It has absolutely nothing to do with asking for losses back and everything to do with expecting to be refunded wagers that were made due to a promise and offer by your company that turned out to be false. It's bad enough that you pulled his bonuses period, and you are now putting up a fight over refunding him his deposits is absurd.

An analogy to what you did would be if a cellphone company gave you a $100 credit to renew a contract, you do so, and then they reverse it and charge you $100 after all.

This whole fiasco is a complete and obvious bait and switch.

I'm glad I referred JD here and helped him out with his post, because this post has been very illuminating on exactly what kind of casino you are. I'm going to logout and walk him through pitching a bitch now.

 

[jdblingbling]

okay

I've pitched a bitch (Playtech has ignored me for longer than a week, nowhere near the 3-businss day turnaround time promised).

 

[BBKPoker]

JD just forwarded an email to me from Iris T of Playtech which was a one sentence response that backed up the casino with no explanation.

Hopefully the PAB I helped him send in will get somewhere, in the meantime avoid the heck out of these renegades.

 

[soflat]

What a scam they have going.

If you win, they say you were playing with bonus funds first and they take your winnings.

If you lose, they say you were playing with your own funds first and they keep your winnings.

That's ok with with Playtech?