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Swiss casino & casinoLV do not pay $6000

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by ebruduck, Jan 16, 2006.

    Jan 16, 2006
  1. ebruduck

    ebruduck Dormant account

    Occupation:
    dancer
    Location:
    Turkey
    I registered there and played the signup bonus .

    I played Videopoker doubling and blackjack which are both allowed games for the wagering and completed the roll over.

    I pitched a bitch couple of month ago and also contacted playtech

    Dear Ebru,

    Before processing your withdrawal request we have noticed a pattern of bonus abuse in your game sessions.

    Due to this we have subtracted the bonus money that was given to you and your winnings, processing only your original deposit.

    We are truly sorry if there was any misunderstanding but we are obligated to follow the company's policy.

    The following is a statement directly from our "Terms of Use":

    "The Casino reserves the right to refuse or rescind the bonus for any reason including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, the Casino reserves the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player from accessing the Casino in the future".

    We do appreciate your interest in our casino and hope to see you at our tables. However, we cannot credit any future bonuses to your casino account.

    Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact the Swiss Casino Support Team. We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, at:

    E-mail: This email is not visible to you.
    Toll Free: 1-866-866-6945 and 1-866-546-0445
    International:
    Fax: 1-268-481-2328

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Cashier Department

    Swiss Casino




    I asked for explanations they refuse to give, I contacted playtech and that what they had to say

    Dear Ebru,



    I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I was sure the casino have contacted you and explained their decision in details.



    According to the casino they decided to return the original deposit amount and your funds were returned to Neteller (only the original deposit funds). Emails were supposed to be sent to you explaining this.



    If you do not accept the casinos decision, please let me know and explain why do you think their decision is wrong, and I will investigate this further and ask for our legal department advice if needed.



    Best regards,

    Iris Toledano
     
  2. Jan 16, 2006
  3. vedat

    vedat Dormant account

    Location:
    TURKEY
    what a player

    i dont know what should players do even they meet the wagering requirements on required games and win alot guess 6000 is alot i guess they are labeled as a bonus abuser and not got paid i think people should avoid those casinos at all cost
     
  4. Jan 16, 2006
  5. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    I'm pleased to see the quasi-responsible response from the Playtech "disputes" department.

    Not that it needs saying, but I'll say it anyway: they can see all the "patterns" they want, and deny you subsequent deals / bar you etc on that basis, but since no rules violation was committed, they payout on the agreed contract first.

    These Playtech issues are becoming ridiculous. There has to be a point at which Playtech is considered a rogue provider; quasi-responsibility of this disputes department response notwithstanding, their licensees evidently have a free card to do absolutely anything. The only way around this is to issue a general caution against Playtech casinos. They HAVE to be pushed into taking a stance against these rogue licensees.

    The current list:

    Giant Vegas
    Vegas Red
    Grand Banks
    Joyland
    Tropez / Swiss
    African Palace
    Indio

    This is a software provider with no control over its licensees.
     
    4 people like this.
  6. Jan 16, 2006
  7. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    This is the problem in a nutshell - terms like this and the way casino operators deal with them. Just about every casino in cyberspace has a term like this, but operators handle these situations differently.

    Many - like the ones caruso listed - fall into a category that is business oriented. The player is given a bonus, and if the casino doesn't like the way the player plays this bonus out, they disqualify the player - give back the deposit and adios amigo. Benefits: cash flow is not messed up. Negatives: produces player animosity since these terms can be abused by the operators.

    Casinos that are player oriented will either 86 the player, or deny further bonus play, but in the meantime will pay the deposits and winnings. Benefits: better retention of players. Negatives: messes up cash flow.

    Casinos that are "business oriented" (IMO) are concerned the here-and-now short term goal. They don't have much vision over the horizon. Casinos that are player focused will - in the long run - endure since they generate better player loyalty.

    This PAB was submitted six weeks ago, and most Playtech complaints should be going directly to Playtech. This is why they set up their disputes site.

    I'm not going to jump into the middle of this unless I have something directly from the casino. This is not the player's first PAB BTW.

    Perhaps I should do the bonus players a favor and list in the "Casinomeister Cautions" section which casinos are "business oriented" :D
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jan 16, 2006
  9. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    This is another shocker from a Playtech casino in my view - the management at Swiss Casino are going to grab this player's winnings and bonus after he/she played to their T&Cs, only to have them use this BS *retroactive* condition to declare him/her an abuser.

    This is a license to steal by this casino, and it looks as if Playtech are quite happy with it's licensee's behaviour judging by Toledano's response.

    Bryan has a point - the T&C, however unethical does make the bonus forfeit at management's unilateral discretion....but it seems to me that it does NOT cover confiscation of winnings as well:

    QUOTE: "The Casino reserves the right to refuse or rescind the bonus for any reason including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, the Casino reserves the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player from accessing the Casino in the future". UNQUOTE

    If this is the way these people do business they are best avoided like the plague imo.
     
  10. Jan 16, 2006
  11. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    "Business orientated" has to win a prize for the best euphemism for "rogue" (or "fraudulent") anyone's come up with! If casinos realised that ever invoking that term to renege on a bonus offer would mean instant pariah status they might think twice about it. I can't see how you can avoid roguing a casino that's confirmed as using it - do you really think anyone should be playing at an outfit that's going to consider it's cash-flow before deciding whether to pay out a win or not :what:

    Fraudulent or non-fraudulent is the distinction, not business or player-orientated.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jan 16, 2006
  13. elscrabinda

    elscrabinda Experienced Member PABnorogue PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    jvonsofdmpvs
    Location:
    Oxford
    Read the African Palace thread for a bit of encouragement. You may still have a chance.

    Personally if I have a dispute with a casino I find trying to resolve it by email is useless. You absolutely have to phone them, demand to speak to a manager (preferably one you can feel ok about shouting at, I'm sure casinos deliberately employ timid foreign women so you won't be too nasty to them!) and don't give in till you get paid. Anything they agree to over the phone insist they put it in an email to you straightaway for posterity and be aware of the escalated threat level to use (winneronline, here, playtech dispute channel, anywhere you've seen them advertised, their regulator etc. be imaginative!)
     
  14. Jan 16, 2006
  15. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Bryan, just to point out that the player did contact Playtech - see the bottom half of his post:

     
  16. Jan 16, 2006
  17. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Quite right, on all fronts.
     
  18. Jan 16, 2006
  19. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    This sort of behaviour also hurts honest casinos, not just players.
     
  20. Jan 17, 2006
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Playtech

    And Playtech software is yet again associated with bad and unethical behaviour. Honest casinos should forget about purchasing a Playtech license till their disputes department show they really care about obtaining a speedy resolution. The T & C are clear; No power to confiscate winnings is there, only to confiscate bonus and bar player, said player will probably not touch Playtech again, and will not have a good word to say about it to friends!
    If the casino gets away with this, it is still able to suck in the 98% or so who do not read these forums before playing. if this ever came to a proper court of law, this term would be ruled out as unenforceable as it gives the casino the right to retrospectively do what it likes.
    Additionally, I thought the bonus was non cashable anyway, seems so at Vegas Red.
     
  22. Jan 17, 2006
  23. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Naturally, "honest" casinos wouldn't go near Playtech. Honest casinos aren't the issue. The point is, crooks entering the market know that Playtech will let them get away with anything - that's the problem. Crooks can forget about Microgaming, and even RTG will bring pressure to bear these days. But crooks know that Playtech is a safe bet, because whatever they do, they know Playtech will let it slide for the license fee. Why did Giant Vegas make the crossover? Golden Palace?

    I'll be buttonholing Playtech Tuesday / Wednesday of next week about this ridiculous excalating of issues with their licensees. I daresay others will, too. They're out of control.

    And what happened to that proposed Playtech float on the AIM, did it go ahead? I forgot about it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Jan 17, 2006
  25. phynqster

    phynqster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    Wow I never knew it was that easy to deny a players winnings. If I knew it was this easy ,we would have been more profitable. As someone who labeled more players as abusers, skilled, advantage or whatever, and I think might even had been the first to do so. I never denied the original winnings, I took the hit and bit the bullet, but still paid the win, alibet very very slowly. I think the Meister is right, this gives the entire industry a bad name. Would be nice if Playtech representitives made their opinions heard.
     
  26. Jan 17, 2006
  27. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    You'd also have pissed away any of the goodwill you built up for Virtual over your time there.

    OK, very brief thread derailment:

    On the above subject: was there an upturn in Virtual's cashflow / profit as result of your tenure as manger? I'm wondering if the proactive stance you took had a material monetary result, or whether it amounted to no more than appeasing the relatively limited audience of forum-dwellers, and was moreorless unnoticed by the overall player-base.

    Would be interested on your comments, but don't want to shift this too much off the Playtech issue at hand.
     
  28. Jan 17, 2006
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Kiwi

    I think Kiwi Casino might beg to differ on this. They are accredited, but will be viewed by some players as "just another dodgy Playtech" if they came upon promotional material without realising they are one of the few Playtechs endorsed by Bryan. Kiwi is the ONLY Playtech I have ever played at, and I had no issues with being paid other than the standard supply of ID.

    I often hope that some players will get revenge for us all, and find a way to screw the crooks back, and get away with it! Sadly though, I expect many good casinos will then have to tighten up measures to prevent the method being used on them. The only way forward seems to make them answerable in a legitimate juristiction, difficult at present, but hopefully this will change.
     
  30. Jan 17, 2006
  31. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    I wouldn't touch Kiwi with a bargepole. Can't get into why, but I guess you know already.

    However, you're right about "honest" casinos existing in the Playtech fold. Bet365 and Acropolis are fine and related to big UK corporations. They're very safe bets. I think Totesport as well, but don't have details to hand.

    That said, "honest" casinos should really look elsewhere. Playtech is damaged goods. A good operator should look to a responsible provider, though costs for Microgaming, Crypto and, to some extent, RTG, are probably prohibitive. But then, Bet365 / Stanley are pretty cash-rich. You'd think a better provider wouldn't break the bank. Ladbrokes managed it.
     
  32. Jan 17, 2006
  33. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    I believe you will find that Kiwi are run out of the same building as Swiss casino. They are sold as a New Zealand casino, but it's totally outsourced to Antigua. There are one or more giant Playtech casino farms there - if you call them they will ask 'which casino?'.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    +1-(268)-481-2396 (International)

    compare with

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    1-(268)-481-2382 (International)


    And compare this case with that of http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casino-poker-complaints/8703-kiwi-casino-resolved.html
     
  34. Jan 18, 2006
  35. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Fishing :)
    Location:
    USA
    I call it PURE THEFT, not "business orientated" (is that a word? lol). I guess
    Virtual
    Prism
    Windows
    etc
    are just business oriented. Not.
     
  36. Jan 18, 2006
  37. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    It's common knowledge that many Playtech casinos share the same centralized support center. This is old news. The operation and ownership is completely different.

    Kiwi casino has been listed at Casinomeister since 2000, and I can probably count the complaints they've generated on one hand - maybe two. They effed up once when they overreacted with a bonus player they suspected of doing something funky. They apologized and everyone moved on.

    My comments earlier about "business oriented" were meant to be tongue and cheek; it was supposed to be funny. But then, maybe it's more truthful than anything else. :D
     
  38. Jan 18, 2006
  39. maxlevine

    maxlevine Webmaster webmeister

    Location:
    Montreal
    I was fine with Acropolis but since Stanley Entertainment was bought by Leisure and Gaming, I'd rather wait and see how that online casino will be handled.

    Max
     

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