Swiss casino & casinoLV do not pay $6000

ebruduck

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Location
Turkey
I registered there and played the signup bonus .

I played Videopoker doubling and blackjack which are both allowed games for the wagering and completed the roll over.

I pitched a bitch couple of month ago and also contacted playtech

Dear Ebru,

Before processing your withdrawal request we have noticed a pattern of bonus abuse in your game sessions.

Due to this we have subtracted the bonus money that was given to you and your winnings, processing only your original deposit.

We are truly sorry if there was any misunderstanding but we are obligated to follow the company's policy.

The following is a statement directly from our "Terms of Use":

"The Casino reserves the right to refuse or rescind the bonus for any reason including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, the Casino reserves the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player from accessing the Casino in the future".

We do appreciate your interest in our casino and hope to see you at our tables. However, we cannot credit any future bonuses to your casino account.

Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact the Swiss Casino Support Team. We are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, at:

E-mail: Support@SCasino.com
Toll Free: 1-866-866-6945 and 1-866-546-0445
International:
Fax: 1-268-481-2328

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Cashier Department

Swiss Casino




I asked for explanations they refuse to give, I contacted playtech and that what they had to say

Dear Ebru,



I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I was sure the casino have contacted you and explained their decision in details.



According to the casino they decided to return the original deposit amount and your funds were returned to Neteller (only the original deposit funds). Emails were supposed to be sent to you explaining this.



If you do not accept the casinos decision, please let me know and explain why do you think their decision is wrong, and I will investigate this further and ask for our legal department advice if needed.



Best regards,

Iris Toledano
 

vedat

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Location
TURKEY
what a player

i dont know what should players do even they meet the wagering requirements on required games and win alot guess 6000 is alot i guess they are labeled as a bonus abuser and not got paid i think people should avoid those casinos at all cost
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
I'm pleased to see the quasi-responsible response from the Playtech "disputes" department.

Not that it needs saying, but I'll say it anyway: they can see all the "patterns" they want, and deny you subsequent deals / bar you etc on that basis, but since no rules violation was committed, they payout on the agreed contract first.

These Playtech issues are becoming ridiculous. There has to be a point at which Playtech is considered a rogue provider; quasi-responsibility of this disputes department response notwithstanding, their licensees evidently have a free card to do absolutely anything. The only way around this is to issue a general caution against Playtech casinos. They HAVE to be pushed into taking a stance against these rogue licensees.

The current list:

Giant Vegas
Vegas Red
Grand Banks
Joyland
Tropez / Swiss
African Palace
Indio

This is a software provider with no control over its licensees.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
The Casino reserves the right to refuse or rescind the bonus for any reason including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, the Casino reserves the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player from accessing the Casino in the future
This is the problem in a nutshell - terms like this and the way casino operators deal with them. Just about every casino in cyberspace has a term like this, but operators handle these situations differently.

Many - like the ones caruso listed - fall into a category that is business oriented. The player is given a bonus, and if the casino doesn't like the way the player plays this bonus out, they disqualify the player - give back the deposit and adios amigo. Benefits: cash flow is not messed up. Negatives: produces player animosity since these terms can be abused by the operators.

Casinos that are player oriented will either 86 the player, or deny further bonus play, but in the meantime will pay the deposits and winnings. Benefits: better retention of players. Negatives: messes up cash flow.

Casinos that are "business oriented" (IMO) are concerned the here-and-now short term goal. They don't have much vision over the horizon. Casinos that are player focused will - in the long run - endure since they generate better player loyalty.

This PAB was submitted six weeks ago, and most Playtech complaints should be going directly to Playtech. This is why they set up their disputes site.

I'm not going to jump into the middle of this unless I have something directly from the casino. This is not the player's first PAB BTW.

Perhaps I should do the bonus players a favor and list in the "Casinomeister Cautions" section which casinos are "business oriented" :D
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
This is another shocker from a Playtech casino in my view - the management at Swiss Casino are going to grab this player's winnings and bonus after he/she played to their T&Cs, only to have them use this BS *retroactive* condition to declare him/her an abuser.

This is a license to steal by this casino, and it looks as if Playtech are quite happy with it's licensee's behaviour judging by Toledano's response.

Bryan has a point - the T&C, however unethical does make the bonus forfeit at management's unilateral discretion....but it seems to me that it does NOT cover confiscation of winnings as well:

QUOTE: "The Casino reserves the right to refuse or rescind the bonus for any reason including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, the Casino reserves the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player from accessing the Casino in the future". UNQUOTE

If this is the way these people do business they are best avoided like the plague imo.
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Location
UK
Casinomeister said:
Casinos that are "business oriented" (IMO) are concerned the here-and-now short term goal. They don't have much vision over the horizon. Casinos that are player focused will - in the long run - endure since they generate better player loyalty.
"Business orientated" has to win a prize for the best euphemism for "rogue" (or "fraudulent") anyone's come up with! If casinos realised that ever invoking that term to renege on a bonus offer would mean instant pariah status they might think twice about it. I can't see how you can avoid roguing a casino that's confirmed as using it - do you really think anyone should be playing at an outfit that's going to consider it's cash-flow before deciding whether to pay out a win or not :what:

Fraudulent or non-fraudulent is the distinction, not business or player-orientated.
 

elscrabinda

New Member
PABnoaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Oxford
Read the African Palace thread for a bit of encouragement. You may still have a chance.

Personally if I have a dispute with a casino I find trying to resolve it by email is useless. You absolutely have to phone them, demand to speak to a manager (preferably one you can feel ok about shouting at, I'm sure casinos deliberately employ timid foreign women so you won't be too nasty to them!) and don't give in till you get paid. Anything they agree to over the phone insist they put it in an email to you straightaway for posterity and be aware of the escalated threat level to use (winneronline, here, playtech dispute channel, anywhere you've seen them advertised, their regulator etc. be imaginative!)
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
Bryan, just to point out that the player did contact Playtech - see the bottom half of his post:

I asked for explanations they refuse to give, I contacted playtech and that what they had to say

Dear Ebru...(etc etc)
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
jetset said:
This is another shocker from a Playtech casino in my view - the management at Swiss Casino are going to grab this player's winnings and bonus after he/she played to their T&Cs, only to have them use this BS *retroactive* condition to declare him/her an abuser.

This is a license to steal by this casino, and it looks as if Playtech are quite happy with it's licensee's behaviour judging by Toledano's response.

Bryan has a point - the T&C, however unethical does make the bonus forfeit at management's unilateral discretion....but it seems to me that it does NOT cover confiscation of winnings as well
Quite right, on all fronts.
 

GrandMaster

Ueber Meister
CAG
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
Casinomeister said:
Many - like the ones caruso listed - fall into a category that is business oriented. The player is given a bonus, and if the casino doesn't like the way the player plays this bonus out, they disqualify the player - give back the deposit and adios amigo. Benefits: cash flow is not messed up. Negatives: produces player animosity since these terms can be abused by the operators.
This sort of behaviour also hurts honest casinos, not just players.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Playtech

And Playtech software is yet again associated with bad and unethical behaviour. Honest casinos should forget about purchasing a Playtech license till their disputes department show they really care about obtaining a speedy resolution. The T & C are clear; No power to confiscate winnings is there, only to confiscate bonus and bar player, said player will probably not touch Playtech again, and will not have a good word to say about it to friends!
If the casino gets away with this, it is still able to suck in the 98% or so who do not read these forums before playing. if this ever came to a proper court of law, this term would be ruled out as unenforceable as it gives the casino the right to retrospectively do what it likes.
Additionally, I thought the bonus was non cashable anyway, seems so at Vegas Red.
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
Naturally, "honest" casinos wouldn't go near Playtech. Honest casinos aren't the issue. The point is, crooks entering the market know that Playtech will let them get away with anything - that's the problem. Crooks can forget about Microgaming, and even RTG will bring pressure to bear these days. But crooks know that Playtech is a safe bet, because whatever they do, they know Playtech will let it slide for the license fee. Why did Giant Vegas make the crossover? Golden Palace?

I'll be buttonholing Playtech Tuesday / Wednesday of next week about this ridiculous excalating of issues with their licensees. I daresay others will, too. They're out of control.

And what happened to that proposed Playtech float on the AIM, did it go ahead? I forgot about it.
 

phynqster

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Location
los angeles, ca
Wow I never knew it was that easy to deny a players winnings. If I knew it was this easy ,we would have been more profitable. As someone who labeled more players as abusers, skilled, advantage or whatever, and I think might even had been the first to do so. I never denied the original winnings, I took the hit and bit the bullet, but still paid the win, alibet very very slowly. I think the Meister is right, this gives the entire industry a bad name. Would be nice if Playtech representitives made their opinions heard.
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
phynqster said:
I never knew it was that easy to deny a players winnings. If I knew it was this easy ,we would have been more profitable.
You'd also have pissed away any of the goodwill you built up for Virtual over your time there.

OK, very brief thread derailment:

On the above subject: was there an upturn in Virtual's cashflow / profit as result of your tenure as manger? I'm wondering if the proactive stance you took had a material monetary result, or whether it amounted to no more than appeasing the relatively limited audience of forum-dwellers, and was moreorless unnoticed by the overall player-base.

Would be interested on your comments, but don't want to shift this too much off the Playtech issue at hand.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Kiwi

caruso said:
Naturally, "honest" casinos wouldn't go near Playtech. Honest casinos aren't the issue. The point is, crooks entering the market know that Playtech will let them get away with anything - that's the problem. Crooks can forget about Microgaming, and even RTG will bring pressure to bear these days. But crooks know that Playtech is a safe bet, because whatever they do, they know Playtech will let it slide for the license fee. Why did Giant Vegas make the crossover? Golden Palace?
I think Kiwi Casino might beg to differ on this. They are accredited, but will be viewed by some players as "just another dodgy Playtech" if they came upon promotional material without realising they are one of the few Playtechs endorsed by Bryan. Kiwi is the ONLY Playtech I have ever played at, and I had no issues with being paid other than the standard supply of ID.

I often hope that some players will get revenge for us all, and find a way to screw the crooks back, and get away with it! Sadly though, I expect many good casinos will then have to tighten up measures to prevent the method being used on them. The only way forward seems to make them answerable in a legitimate juristiction, difficult at present, but hopefully this will change.
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
vinylweatherman said:
I think Kiwi Casino might beg to differ on this. They are accredited, but will be viewed by some players as "just another dodgy Playtech" if they came upon promotional material without realising they are one of the few Playtechs endorsed by Bryan.
I wouldn't touch Kiwi with a bargepole. Can't get into why, but I guess you know already.

However, you're right about "honest" casinos existing in the Playtech fold. Bet365 and Acropolis are fine and related to big UK corporations. They're very safe bets. I think Totesport as well, but don't have details to hand.

That said, "honest" casinos should really look elsewhere. Playtech is damaged goods. A good operator should look to a responsible provider, though costs for Microgaming, Crypto and, to some extent, RTG, are probably prohibitive. But then, Bet365 / Stanley are pretty cash-rich. You'd think a better provider wouldn't break the bank. Ladbrokes managed it.
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
vinylweatherman said:
I think Kiwi Casino might beg to differ on this. They are accredited, but will be viewed by some players as "just another dodgy Playtech" if they came upon promotional material without realising they are one of the few Playtechs endorsed by Bryan. Kiwi is the ONLY Playtech I have ever played at, and I had no issues with being paid other than the standard supply of ID.
I believe you will find that Kiwi are run out of the same building as Swiss casino. They are sold as a New Zealand casino, but it's totally outsourced to Antigua. There are one or more giant Playtech casino farms there - if you call them they will ask 'which casino?'.

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+1-(268)-481-2396 (International)

compare with

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1-(268)-481-2382 (International)


And compare this case with that of http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casino-poker-complaints/8703-kiwi-casino-resolved.html
 

paul02085

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Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
USA
Vesuvio said:
"Business orientated" has to win a prize for the best euphemism for "rogue" (or "fraudulent") anyone's come up with! If casinos realised that ever invoking that term to renege on a bonus offer would mean instant pariah status they might think twice about it. I can't see how you can avoid roguing a casino that's confirmed as using it - do you really think anyone should be playing at an outfit that's going to consider it's cash-flow before deciding whether to pay out a win or not :what:

Fraudulent or non-fraudulent is the distinction, not business or player-orientated.
I call it PURE THEFT, not "business orientated" (is that a word? lol). I guess
Virtual
Prism
Windows
etc
are just business oriented. Not.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
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Location
Bierland
thelawnet said:
I believe you will find that Kiwi are run out of the same building as Swiss casino. They are sold as a New Zealand casino, but it's totally outsourced to Antigua. There are one or more giant Playtech casino farms there - if you call them they will ask 'which casino?'.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


+1-(268)-481-2396 (International)

compare with

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1-(268)-481-2382 (International)


And compare this case with that of http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casino-poker-complaints/8703-kiwi-casino-resolved.html
It's common knowledge that many Playtech casinos share the same centralized support center. This is old news. The operation and ownership is completely different.

Kiwi casino has been listed at Casinomeister since 2000, and I can probably count the complaints they've generated on one hand - maybe two. They effed up once when they overreacted with a bonus player they suspected of doing something funky. They apologized and everyone moved on.

My comments earlier about "business oriented" were meant to be tongue and cheek; it was supposed to be funny. But then, maybe it's more truthful than anything else. :D
 

maxlevine

Webmaster
webmeister
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Location
Montreal
caruso said:
...However, you're right about "honest" casinos existing in the Playtech fold. Bet365 and Acropolis are fine and related to big UK corporations...
I was fine with Acropolis but since Stanley Entertainment was bought by Leisure and Gaming, I'd rather wait and see how that online casino will be handled.

Max
 

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