Ask me anything (about slots)!

[Tourettesguy]

It's not rigged. You were lucky.

Keep a spreadsheet of every game you play... better still get Slot Tracker when it comes out... and record the amount of times ithat happens.

Plus if it IS rigged, just put £5 in and have one spin at £5. Withdraw your enormous win and repeat this process.

I'm sorry .. that's flippant, but whether your mind can be changed or not you are wrong... and I'd say I'm 99.99% certain about that... because if you're right, and it purposely gave you 500x on your last spin, that means it purposely took over 500x off you in order to do it.

If you are so smart you should know that trigger on last spin require 4000 halfdead spins without free spins feature first... Im 100% sure if I had €350 left in balance I would not got that free spin and the dead spins and no features would have continued until my last spin...now whne Im wring I remember this is happen often on Dragon Bron slot...and RTG and Microgaming slots too...you often get that only free spins very close on zero balance and you get balance up to around where you started...at Loose Cabose and Mithic Dragon slot which I played alot this happen often...from $500-800 i balance and nothing to below $10...and e feature getting you back up to starting balance....average payoput I dont doubt...just the randomness whne this feature come and the size of it...NOT random...it IS a bulit in feature of the slot/programming...

Remenber more games this has happen multiple times...Gonzo and Montezuma...ofeten on Gonzo you get that rare 20 free spin trigger plus retriggers...and that Montezuma free spin that retriggers multiple times...often close to end balance...if I sit here thing for 5 more minutes I can name more slots this has happen...its not just random luck...its a forced payout compensating by the slot machine..smooth out the gamestats....but well within safe zone...most plyers dont cashout $600 on a $500 deposit...so below $600 the slotmachine/casino can "give" "good" features and base game payouts....

 

[brianmon]

Questions

1. Is the RNG an integral part of each slot's program or is it a separate entity?

The MGS website states...
"The kernel responsible for our entire gaming logic is known as an RNG (Random Number Generator). Our RNG was set more than a decade ago, and over the years it has been checked and approved by the leading accredited testing agencies. "

Which seems to imply that there is a singular 'master' RNG serving all their games.

2. Are there many instances of a particular slot running on one, or between many servers, or is there one program serving all players? Obviously this might be different for the likes of MGS and NetEnt, compared to the smaller slot producers, and also how popular a particular slot is.

 

[trancemonkey]

If you are so smart you should know that trigger on last spin require 4000 halfdead spins without free spins feature first... Im 100% sure if I had €350 left in balance I would not got that free spin and the dead spins and no features would have continued until my last spin...now whne Im wring I remember this is happen often on Dragon Bron slot...and RTG and Microgaming slots too...you often get that only free spins very close on zero balance and you get balance up to around where you started...at Loose Cabose and Mithic Dragon slot which I played alot this happen often...from $500-800 i balance and nothing to below $10...and e feature getting you back up to starting balance....average payoput I dont doubt...just the randomness whne this feature come and the size of it...NOT random...it IS a bulit in feature of the slot/programming...

I'm not clever... I do this for a living... it's my job. I'm not getting involved in a tit for tat argument about whether I'm right or wrong. I'm telling you that as far as I know I have never seen nor heard of this. It would make no sense to do this, would be extremely illegal and utterly pointless unless the game was 100% compensated. Which it won't be.

If you don't believe me, then that's fine...

 

[brianmon]

If you are so smart you should know that trigger on last spin require 4000 halfdead spins without free spins feature first... Im 100% sure if I had €350 left in balance I would not got that free spin and the dead spins and no features would have continued until my last spin...now whne Im wring I remember this is happen often on Dragon Bron slot...and RTG and Microgaming slots too...you often get that only free spins very close on zero balance and you get balance up to around where you started...at Loose Cabose and Mithic Dragon slot which I played alot this happen often...from $500-800 i balance and nothing to below $10...and e feature getting you back up to starting balance....average payoput I dont doubt...just the randomness whne this feature come and the size of it...NOT random...it IS a bulit in feature of the slot/programming...

I must admit that when I got my 10,000x win on DOA. My balance had gone down to about €3 without a single bonus round.
Then i got 3 bonuses within about 20 spins. The first 2 paid next to nothing.
But the 3rd which occurred when my balance was at just €1.13, paid €1833.14 from an 18c spin.

 

[trancemonkey]

1. Is the RNG an integral part of each slot's program or is it a separate entity?

The MGS website states...
"The kernel responsible for our entire gaming logic is known as an RNG (Random Number Generator). Our RNG was set more than a decade ago, and over the years it has been checked and approved by the leading accredited testing agencies. "

Which seems to imply that there is a singular 'master' RNG serving all their games.

2. Are there many instances of a particular slot running on one, or between many servers, or is there one program serving all players? Obviously this might be different for the likes of MGS and NetEnt, compared to the smaller slot producers, and also how popular a particular slot is.

The RNG for any provider is normally licenced separately and is a seperate entity on the server. The game logic will ask the RNG for a number and then use that number (or numbers). Most use the simple Mersenne Twister system.

The game logic can, and does often run on multiple nodes or servers depending on the number of concurrent players - at least that was my experience so far

 

[Simmo!]

Going back to the point about reels landing quickly when a bonus is due, I think this may be more to do with the integration of games from certain providers with the software platforms that serve them. For example, I have noticed that this happens a lot on Quickfire with several providers including WMS and Microgaming yet doesn't happen on Microgaming's own GameAssists platform. At one point Quickfire was so bad I stopped playing at Qf-driven casinos although a recent return indicated that the problem is better, if not fully cured.

Back when Jackpot Party was around, the opposite was true, you would get a delay which was commensurate with the number of lines you were going to win on. This was most noticeable on MoneyBurst games like Bruce Lee because you often won on lots of lines simultaneously. Oddly, I came I like the 'tell' on WMS games like Rhino and Brucie but mot on MGS or other games.

 

[trancemonkey]

Going back to the point about reels landing quickly when a bonus is due, I think this may be more to do with the integration of games from certain providers with the software platforms that serve them. For example, I have noticed that this happens a lot on Quickfire with several providers including WMS and Microgaming yet doesn't happen on Microgaming's own GameAssists platform. At one point Quickfire was so bad I stopped playing at Qf-driven casinos although a recent return indicated that the problem is better, if not fully cured.

Back when Jackpot Party was around, the opposite was true, you would get a delay which was commensurate with the number of lines you were going to win on. This was most noticeable on MoneyBurst games like Bruce Lee because you often won on lots of lines simultaneously. Oddly, I came I like the 'tell' on WMS games like Rhino and Brucie but mot on MGS or other games.

I remember that on JPP. Used to love that site... was gutted when it closed Slots Magic isn't anywhere near the same

 

[aceking123]

Another question Trance )

Do all players that have a unique player id per casino get crossed checked in main servers RNG , if i have 15 accounts all with different names same names , same ip etc etc , would this all come under one individual account at the main host server , i know Bryan stated that we all play from the same servers so in theory it would not matter which casino i was playing at, there is the exception to this rule with regards to 32Red who use there own servers ?

So using geo location & ip would show the same player over many different casinos when sending any data to & from the main server for the casinos ?

 

[Jono777]

Great question AK!

I have started to (strongly) believe that personal/player IP plays a part (the size of that part I'm unsure) in a session, regardless of casino.

This ties in with my "slots remember" conspiracy theory also, will be interested to see the response on this one

 

[trancemonkey]

Another question Trance )

Do all players that have a unique player id per casino get crossed checked in main servers RNG , if i have 15 accounts all with different names same names , same ip etc etc , would this all come under one individual account at the main host server , i know Bryan stated that we all play from the same servers so in theory it would not matter which casino i was playing at, there is the exception to this rule with regards to 32Red who use there own servers ?

So using geo location & ip would show the same player over many different casinos when sending any data to & from the main server for the casinos ?

So i'm not 100% sure of this, but i can tell you from the last company I worked at which had it's own RGS...

Each player was unique to the casino they played on as far as the games software was concerned. We didn't (and aren't allowed to under data protection laws i believe) cross-reference players. And other than for statistical reasons, why would you cross-reference anyway... marketing perhaps but i can't think of any reasons from a games point of view.

Some casinos that run many sister sites may track you through their casinos, but the games providers don't as far as i'm aware.

 

[Tourettesguy]

About this phenomna when first reel stops instantly when a free spin feature will come... The feature must have been pre-downloaded or loaded in the background so its ready to play whne its triggered...there is no way the slot can download sometimes more than 100 free spins with each and every free spins outcome..in 0,1 secound.....take WMS(I think) for ex....if you lose connection during the free spins and you already have spun 30 free spins all of those will re-start whne you refresh the slot, paying exact same for those already shown spins...meaning everything about that free spin feature IS pre-downloaded before you start the feature...and how in the world can the slot get all that info playing a non-download software in less than 2 ms?? Ordinary spins, without feature download spins live...therefor the variation in delay every time you hit spin button...but when free spins is about to trigger it ALWAYS are almost no delay....when it should be the oposite if you win 100 free spins..which are aready spun in the background...a disconnection proves that. So I dont think its just bad programming....and whn 50% or software providers suffer from same problem....ok if one had this problem, then I could take it lika bad coding or else...but so many and different softwares..?!!?

 

[trancemonkey]

Great question AK!

I have started to (strongly) believe that personal/player IP plays a part (the size of that part I'm unsure) in a session, regardless of casino.

Again, i can't be 100% sure but i don't know of any games provider that does this or why you would

This ties in with my "slots remember" conspiracy theory also, will be interested to see the response on this one

Slots have no memory unless you talk about game recall (where the server remembers you have an unfinished game) or about game persistence which is carried over and therefore your game state is stored on the server. - each game is (should be!) randomly determined without reference to past or future games (i'm not talking about persistant features within a game here - that's different).

Please please remember i'm talking about the reputable companies here - i'm sure there are some in the world that do dodgy shit. I just don't know about them specifically...

 

[trancemonkey]

About this phenomna when first reel stops instantly when a free spin feature will come... The feature must have been pre-downloaded or loaded in the background so its ready to play whne its triggered...there is no way the slot can download sometimes more than 100 free spins with each and every free spins outcome..in 0,1 secound.....take WMS(I think) for ex....if you lose connection during the free spins and you already have spun 30 free spins all of those will re-start whne you refresh the slot, paying exact same for those already shown spins...meaning everything about that free spin feature IS pre-downloaded before you start the feature...and how in the world can the slot get all that info playing a non-download software in less than 2 ms?? Ordinary spins, without feature download spins live...therefor the variation in delay every time you hit spin button...but when free spins is about to trigger it ALWAYS are almost no delay....when it should be the oposite if you win 100 free spins..which are aready spun in the background...a disconnection proves that. So I dont think its just bad programming....and whn 50% or software providers suffer from same problem....ok if one had this problem, then I could take it lika bad coding or else...but so many and different softwares..?!!?

I covered this in a previous post, so i'll be brief:

There are two ways (at least) that the game logic (server) can provider the client with the information it needs for free games / pick feature / whatever...
The first is that ALL the outcomes for all the free spins / picks / whatever are sent to the client in one big data file at the point they are won. Of course, this can cause problems because if you win 100 free spins, with retriggers, etc... the file that the client receives could be quite large and sending / parsing it could take time. Therefore this is likely not used very often any more, if at all.

The other option is that each free game is sent to the client in turn - which is possibly why on Bruce Lee, if you have a bad connection, and you're in the free spins, the game will pause before the reels spin. This is because it's getting each spin in turn. The reason that if you completely lose connection, or reload the game, they play all the spins through is because the server knows that the Free Spins are not complete, and therefore sends all previous spins through again. We have to store previous spins in the system for legal reasons (i.e player disputes, GC issues, etc..).

Now a lot of providers would just pick up from where they left off, but WMS have chosen to display the game recovery in this way...

There's nothing sinister or odd about it - it's just the way it works.

As for the quick reel stop - i don't know... by design? Fault in the code? God knows... but again, nothing sinister. In fact, i quite like it

 

[Tourettesguy]

I covered this in a previous post, so i'll be brief:

There are two ways (at least) that the game logic (server) can provider the client with the information it needs for free games / pick feature / whatever...
The first is that ALL the outcomes for all the free spins / picks / whatever are sent to the client in one big data file. Of course, this can cause problems because if you win 100 free spins, with retriggers, etc... the file that the client receives could be quite large and sending / parsing it could take time. Therefore this is almost certainly not used very often any more, if at all.

The other option is that each free game is sent to the client in turn - which is why on Bruce Lee, if you have a bad connection, and you're in the free spins, the game will pause before the reels spin. This is because it's getting each spin in turn. The reason that if you completely lose connection, or reload the game, they play all the spins through is because the server knows that the Free Spins are not complete, and therefore sends all previous spins through again. We have to store previous spins in the system for legal reasons (i.e player disputes, GC issues, etc..).

Now a lot of providers would just pick up from where they left off, but WMS have chosen to display the game recovery in this way...

There's nothing sinister or odd about it - it's just the way it works.

As for the quick reel stop - i don't know... by design? Fault in the code? God knows... but again, nothing sinister. In fact, i quite like it

I "quite like it" too...but it feel wrong...and whne different worlds(softwares) suffer from same problem with this no-delay-to-first-reel-stops......and whne a large file of free spins and re-triggers should take longer to download/longer delay but is instead instant...that I mean says something is pre-loaded on my computer or in a temp-file on game servers ready to go... That is connected to what I say whne this is triggerd on last spin or when I change bet after looong time and 4000 spins..its like the either the connection has been lost in the servers to whne trigger that pre-downloaded set of free spins and it wont trigger...or while free spins are built up while playing....a lowering of bet could make the total outcome of the free psins to be too high so it trigger it...Like the "Feature guaranteed" on RTG...how it bulids up....4000 spins on €4 bet may need this time 5000 spins...but lovering to 60c / spin...the already bulit up amount is way too high for a 60c bet and causes a trigger instantly....plus it is much much higher than an ordinary 60c trigger....whne I hit 500x bet on that last spin but first spin on 60c....its to many thing that is connected here for me to be totally wrong... Feature guaranteed" on RTG happensa every 250 spin in worst case I remember..maybe other softwares vorks same but with a limit of more than just 250 spins..maybe raning between 1-5000 spins...

 

[trancemonkey]

I "quite like it" too...but it feel wrong...and whne different worlds(softwares) suffer from same problem with this no-delay-to-first-reel-stops......and whne a large file of free spins and re-triggers should take longer to download/longer delay but is instead instant...that I mean says something is pre-loaded on my computer or in a temp-file on game servers ready to go... That is connected to what I say whne this is triggerd on last spin or when I change bet after looong time and 4000 spins..its like the either the connection has been lost in the servers to whne trigger that pre-downloaded set of free spins and it wont trigger...or while free spins are built up while playing....a lowering of bet could make the total outcome of the free psins to be too high so it trigger it...Like the "Feature guaranteed" on RTG...how it bulids up....4000 spins on €4 bet may need this time 5000 spins...but lovering to 60c / spin...the already bulit up amount is way too high for a 60c bet and causes a trigger instantly....plus it is much much higher than an ordinary 60c trigger....whne I hit 500x bet on that last spin but first spin on 60c....its to many thing that is connected here for me to be totally wrong... Feature guaranteed" on RTG happensa every 250 spin in worst case I remember..maybe other softwares vorks same but with a limit of more than just 250 spins..maybe raning between 1-5000 spins...

You're thinking way too much in to this - and i also said that nearly all software providers download each free spin as it happens, hence why if you lose connection the game will pause or go in to an endless spin. It's easy to prove - next time you get free spins, turn your internet off half way through. I guarantee the game won't continue... because it doesn't know what to do. Nothing is pre-downloaded.. that would be open to massive problems and would be unworkable. The server needs to know everything that is going on - every game outcome that you are shown.

You seem to have an unchangeable opinion as to how slots work, and that's fine - you can believe whatever you want to believe, i'm obviously not going to change your mind. But please stop with the assertion that games are storing things, or waiting till the last spin (or whatever else it is you believe) on this thread as we are going round in circles and getting nowhere fast. If you believe that's the way they are, then i'm not going to be the one to change your mind.

 

[interlog]

Talking about stored game results.

I asked a casino to get my play history on a particular slot since its launch last year. They said they couldn't and had to go to the game provider to get this data. I get it eventually so nothing wrong there.

How did the game provider identify my spins over all of those months?

 

[Jono777]

Talking about stored game results.

I asked a casino to get my play history on a particular slot since its launch last year. They said they couldn't and had to go to the game provider to get this data. I get it eventually so nothing wrong there.

How did the game provider identify my spins over all of those months?

Bonanza by any chance sir

 

[interlog]

Bonanza by any chance sir

No shit Sherlock

 

[incrediblestuff]

Talking about stored game results.

I asked a casino to get my play history on a particular slot since its launch last year. They said they couldn't and had to go to the game provider to get this data. I get it eventually so nothing wrong there.

How did the game provider identify my spins over all of those months?

Pretty simple i reckon, the request came from a Casino, i.e client of theirs, for one of their players: that means you have a specific - but further anonymous i presume - user ID number..they just have to retrieve the results for that number, and there you go..

That would pretty much only work on a per Casino basis, i reckon.

I think an I.P. or mac address perhaps also would do the trick..

 

[aceking123]

Talking about stored game results.

I asked a casino to get my play history on a particular slot since its launch last year. They said they couldn't and had to go to the game provider to get this data. I get it eventually so nothing wrong there.

How did the game provider identify my spins over all of those months?

that would straight forward player ID

 

[Tourettesguy]

You're thinking way too much in to this - and i also said that nearly all software providers (including WMS) download each free spin as it happens, hence why if you lose connection the game will pause or go in to an endless spin. It's easy to prove - next time you get free spins, turn your internet off half way through. I guarantee the game won't continue... because it doesn't know what to do. Nothing is pre-downloaded.. that would be open to massive problems and would be unworkable. The server needs to know everything that is going on - every game outcome that you are shown.

You seem to have an unchangeable opinion as to how slots work, and that's fine - you can believe whatever you want to believe, i'm obviously not going to change your mind. But please stop with the assertion that games are storing things, or waiting till the last spin (or whatever else it is you believe) on this thread as we are going round in circles and getting nowhere fast. If you believe that's the way they are, then i'm not going to be the one to change your mind.

Well, even I can figure out a slot can multitask...sure it instatly feels if connetion is lost and overrides any function tar would still work if I cut mu internet...think you supply me with too easy answers.. You cant argue that a triggered free spin could in teorybe played i connetion were lost.. Now when we talk about that I can comfirm at Play' go games its possible...playingautoplay and you leave and come back and se you won a bonus roumd . But PlaynGo loseconnection prettyfast when inactive...still you can press start and see the bonusround, first when its over tje red box saying connection lost apperas. Doubt you tell all you know here...sounds more amd more like a support guy at VideoSlots saying we have no control over anythimg...

 

[trancemonkey]

Pretty simple i reckon, the request came from a Casino, i.e client of theirs, for one of their players: that means you have a specific - but further anonymous i presume - user ID number..they just have to retrieve the results for that number, and there you go..

That would pretty much only work on a per Casino basis, i reckon.

I think an I.P. or mac address perhaps also would do the trick..

You'd be right - the server keeps the information for a long time - that time is, i think, mentioned in the technical standards for RGS. Not sure how long...

 

[trancemonkey]

Well, even I can figure out a slot can multitask...sure it instatly feels if connetion is lost and overrides any function tar would still work if I cut mu internet...think you supply me with too easy answers.. You cant argue that a triggered free spin could in teorybe played i connetion were lost.. Now when we talk about that I can comfirm at Play' go games its possible...playingautoplay and you leave and come back and se you won a bonus roumd . But PlaynGo loseconnection prettyfast when inactive...still you can press start and see the bonusround, first when its over tje red box saying connection lost apperas. Doubt you tell all you know here...sounds more amd more like a support guy at VideoSlots saying we have no control over anythimg...

Fine - then don't believe me. To be honest, i'm fed up of explaining the same thing to you. With all due respect, you're like a conspiracy theorist that won't accept anyone else's point of view unless it confirms your own - even if that person is an expert in the field (and i'm not claiming to be an expert). Therefore, for the moment i'm not willing to keep this back and forth with you going. You're wrong, you're overthinking it, and you're making 2+2=5. That's up to you, but if you're going to ask someone who does this for a job, and has done so at multiple companies, for an opinion - and then tell him his opinion is wrong... well then there is nothing more to say here.

As far as i'm concerned this particular line of questioning by you is closed. Feel free to ask me any other questions though.

 

[aceking123]

My thinking on features & i have more than a few years with them , ive triggered free spins , doesn't matter if connection is down up broken or whatever , the feature & payout has already been applied to host, the rest is eye candy , this shows on many sites as ive hit the feature looked at balance & its already applied the balance to client/casino. balance jumped by £80 quid i had a £100 odd showing at start of feature , account is showing £182 , the feature hasn't even finished yet.

 

[trancemonkey]

My thinking on features & i have more than a few years with them , ive triggered free spins , doesn't matter if connection is down up broken or whatever , the feature & payout has already been applied to host, the rest is eye candy , this shows on many sites as ive hit the feature looked at balance & its already applied the balance to client/casino. balance jumped by £80 quid i had a £100 odd showing at start of feature , account is showing £182 , the feature hasn't even finished yet.

Never seen that - and i don't know any providers that currently pre-detemine the outcome of free spins, although i wouldn't be surprised if some do (in the way i've explained earlier). Do you have any specific examples?