A question to fellow members who live in Germany

[SlotMonster]

Recently there were some news about thousands of refugees coming to Germany at the moment. They say that refugees act like Germany is their own home, don't want to work, commit a lot of crimes and cause a lot of problems in general. Some magazines say about 800.000 of refugees to be accommodated in 2015! So I would like to ask, is that really as disturbing as some newspapers say, or there is nothing to worry about?

Here is an article at Boomberg:

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Thanks!

 

[datch]

Hey,


I think it is a shame that some Germans try to create a mood of paranoia and fear. If somebody make statements like "most of them are criminals" or similar bs generalizations you easily can see what kind of a dumb person this must be.

I am a little bit ashamed of this behavior. Germany is one of the richest countries in the world and people cry about this laughable amount of refugees. We have the damn responsibility to help these poor people under all circumstances.

Germany can afford it without any problems and without any noticeable financial consequences.


Greetz

 

[dunover]

Trust me, you've got a HELL of a lot to worry about, that's 1% of your population in 1 year. 800,000 who have never contributed a penny to your country, don't speak the language or understand the culture. You have to feed them house them etc. The costs will be horrendous. And yes, extra crime is inevitable. You don't know who they are or what they have done. Over 90% of rapes/attacks on women in the Scandinavian cities are now carried out by migrants. You will always hear the one in the news reports who speaks broken English and claims to be a 'Doctor' or 'graduate' in something, but the rest have little or nothing to offer other than dependency or menial work.
Merkel will possibly be remembered, along with the EU as the factor that destroyed Germany in the coming decades.

One thing Africa and the Middle East can do well is produce limitless numbers of people, you take 800,000 this year and you'll have 2 million knocking on the door next year. Where does it stop? When Europe has been reduced to Third World squalor and fighting Islamic factions. where will the next boatloads want to go? Because Europe that existed for 2 thousand years will exist no more unless the doors are shut.

 

[Casino2014man]

Although Dunovers response was very direct I have to say it is all making me very uneasy..

I have been following this on the news each day, and am really worried for Europe and the UK also.. At least the UK has an ocean around us, but there are massive issues at present in Europe and this will just keep getting worse sadly...

 

[dunover]

Hey,


I think it is a shame that some Germans try to create a mood of paranoia and fear. If somebody make statements like "most of them are criminals" or similar bs generalizations you easily can see what kind of a dumb person this must be.

I am a little bit ashamed of this behavior. Germany is one of the richest countries in the world and people cry about this laughable amount of refugees. We have the damn responsibility to help these poor people under all circumstances.

Germany can afford it without any problems and without any noticeable financial consequences.


Greetz

It won't be for much longer. 1% of your population in one year is ridiculous. And no we 300 million in Europe CANNOT be responsible for the 6 Billion people elsewhere who have a lower living standard than us. Have you not considered the fact these people mostly will not integrate, will have 2-3x the children you Germans do? Then the segregation will begin, Islamic and German kufir. Your country will be economically and socially divided no matter what good intentions you liberals have. Just take a look around you at Sweden, the UK, France etc. See what the REAL consequences will be for the German people and not the story the liberal media tries to impart.

 

[spintee]

I would be very worried, I hope you government has more brains than UK.s

Here in the U.K its game over, To little to late, I agree with dunover's statements,

Here is a few articals from the other day, & Theses was trying to get in the U.K from France, Remember that's what was caught, Hundreds / thousands come in a week,


Around 2,000 attempts were made to get to the tunnel on Monday, with as many as 148 people thought to have reached Britain. Another 1,500 made a bid for the tunnel on Tuesday.

Officers discovered 96 migrants in one day alone.
Eurotunnel earlier revealed that since the beginning of the year, it has blocked 37,000 migrants trying to make their way to Britain.

This is the best bit if they are deemed to be in the UK illegally and do not claim asylum, they will be served with removal notice papers. Just about all of them are released back on to the U.K streets

 

[datch]

You have some points dunover, but you mix some very important things up: There is a big difference between refugees (fleeing because of war ect), immigrants, illegall immigrants (most of this group are economic refugees).
And this is the main problem. You, like lots of others, do not seem to make a difference between these groups.

I am tired of this "raping, criminal, stealing" bs because statistics prove everybody wrong who make such statements.
Maybe your personal problem is not with refugees but with other cultures in general?

Some days ago I learned that there are two refugee camps really near from where I live and guess what? I didnt even noticed anything strange in my area^^

 

[Casino2014man]

This is the main issue in the UK

Once they are here, they are here - no removal ever happens - they either say 'I have no passport' or 'Human Rights' - really they should be sent back to France in this circumstance, but it does not happen.

I have no problem with refugees coming to the UK, whatsoever. My issue is when they come illegally..

With the German situation, the problem will likely be that now they are accepting 800 000, many, many more will make the trip as they have been encouraged. It is a difficult situation all around..

 

[SlotMonster]

Hey,


I think it is a shame that some Germans try to create a mood of paranoia and fear. If somebody make statements like "most of them are criminals" or similar bs generalizations you easily can see what kind of a dumb person this must be.

I am a little bit ashamed of this behavior. Germany is one of the richest countries in the world and people cry about this laughable amount of refugees. We have the damn responsibility to help these poor people under all circumstances.

Germany can afford it without any problems and without any noticeable financial consequences.


Greetz

Hey, datch!

Thank you for your reply. To be honest, I find your answer a bit unclear for me and would like to clarify few points:

1) We have the damn responsibility to help these poor people under all circumstances - I'm not sure why? Was Germany the cause of all their problems? Some of refugees say that they escaped the war or economical troubles, but what was the reason to accept them all? I mean, you accept refugees without adapting them to your culture first, without having them to learn your language and how to behave in society. It's been reported that some refugees set open fire in their apartments to cook a meal, because they didn't know how to use oven (or didn't want to use it).

2) Germany can afford it without any problems and without any noticeable financial consequences - again, it is not clear what is the reason for doing that? Cheap employees? Fresh blood? Or something else?

Thanks!

 

[dunover]

You have some points dunover, but you mix some very important things up: There is a big difference between refugees (fleeing because of war ect), immigrants, illegall immigrants (most of this group are economic refugees).
And this is the main problem. You, like lots of others, do not seem to make a difference between these groups.

I am tired of this "raping, criminal, stealing" bs because statistics prove everybody wrong who make such statements.
Maybe your personal problem is not with refugees but with other cultures in general?

Some days ago I learned that there are two refugee camps really near from where I live and guess what? I didnt even noticed anything strange in my area^^

You are brainwashed by the liberal media, like many. They choose not to supply 'inconvenient' facts.
Unfortunately I can back up my points (unlike you) with some true statistics.

Anti-female violence/rape: (unless the Norwegian Police are lying about it.)

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Sweden:

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Welfare/dependency:

Simply search, over 30% in Scandinavian cities.

P.S. Slotmonster makes a valid point - why indeed are we in the EU 'responsible' for the world's Islamic population? Surely the last place they would want to be is with us 'dogs' 'infidels' and 'imperialists'? They made it clear they didn't want the Europeans in their countries after WWII and their religion is diametrically opposed to most facets of our way of life. So why? Wouldn't be money, would it? Most have paid huge sums respective to their societies to be trafficked here, again why? An investment? And yes, I do know the difference between 95% (chancers) and 5% (refugees) and to that I simply add:

Under the UNCHR and EU Dublin treaty, a refugee should seek asylum in the FIRST safe nation they get to. Not the UK, not Germany, Sweden, Austria. In reality it's like a supermarket sweep when a reporter asks them in Greece "!Where to?" and the shouts go up 'YOOKAY' 'SJERMANY' or 'SWAYDEN'. It's a complete shambles and we are not legally required to, and should not take ANY in.

 

[zaalouk29]

This is really laughable or maybe very sad when you see the hidden hatred or blatant racism by some members here. If you are part of human race , you have an obligation of support and assistance when needed. Those refugees are mostly adults, educated and will have no problem of integration and adaptation in their new homelands in Europe. As of labeling the whole majority of law abiding refugees as criminals shows the degree of intolerance by so called educated europeans fellow members. This is not a forum to debate such issues but I will be glad to engage in any , with any racist and intolerant point of vues ANYTIME.
By the way, the neighboring countries like JORDAN, LEBANON, TOOK IN MILLIONS OF REFUGEES, EVEN THOUGH THE DONT HAVE THE MEANS. So that says a lot about their moral values.

 

[datch]

Hey, datch!

Thank you for your reply. To be honest, I find your answer a bit unclear for me and would like to clarify few points:

1) We have the damn responsibility to help these poor people under all circumstances - I'm not sure why? Was Germany the cause of all their problems? Some of refugees say that they escaped the war or economical troubles, but what was the reason to accept them all? I mean, you accept refugees without adapting them to your culture first, without having them to learn your language and how to behave in society. It's been reported that some refugees set open fire in their apartments to cook a meal, because they didn't know how to use oven (or didn't want to use it).

2) Germany can afford it without any problems and without any noticeable financial consequences - again, it is not clear what is the reason for doing that? Cheap employees? Fresh blood? Or something else?

Thanks!

Hi,

to care for the ones who need help and escaped war or what horrible things else is just common sense. Really really simple thing. And again I feel the need to emphasize the differences within the group "refugees".

For example: We have a problem in Germany with immigrants (not even illegal) from Romania, Bulgaria and other countries. They can legally go to Germany to live here - its an EU-problem that will be solved the next months. There is a fair amount of "Gipsys" (Sinti&Roma) who come here to take advantage of the generous welfare system + they are begging, sleeping outside, eventually stealing and on top they do not know how to behave.
They attract lots of attention and legitimate refugees f.e. from Syria have to suffer because of that even though most of them behave good.

"It's been reported that some refugees set open fire in their apartments to cook a meal, because they didn't know how to use oven (or didn't want to use it)."

Yes this is one of the superhyped single stories from the media. Such things are happening, sure. Nothing out of the norm.

Nobody said that they will stay forever. The majority of them will have to go back home, whereever this is.
They are not released into the streets after registration in Germany. Refugees or other foreigners do not commit more crimes then the general population in Germany. Lots of people try to create that image, but its not true. It is pure paranoia and I am tired of it.

 

[The Dude]

Recently there were some news about thousands of refugees coming to Germany at the moment. They say that refugees act like Germany is their own home, don't want to work, commit a lot of crimes and cause a lot of problems in general. Some magazines say about 800.000 of refugees to be accommodated in 2015! So I would like to ask, is that really as disturbing as some newspapers say, or there is nothing to worry about?

From what I can tell, it's total BS. Germany is far more tolerant towards outsiders than most persons think. And the law protects people on both sides - legal residents/asylum seekers.

German news - to include the papers, television, and social media - are discussing more about what people can do to help than talking about imagined rapes, etc. To say that refugees feel like they own the place is hogwash.

Of course there has always been neo-Nazis in the former East Germany. They've always attacked people who are dark skin, are muslim, or foreign workers. They've been doing this since the wall came down. The asylum issue has acerbated that problem, but the majority of people here and there welcome the asylum seekers.

Of course there is the discussion of how the politics will play out on which countries will share the burden, but time will tell on this one.

 

[datch]

You are brainwashed by the liberal media, like many. They choose not to supply 'inconvenient' facts.
Unfortunately I can back up my points (unlike you) with some true statistics.

...
P.S. Slotmonster makes a valid point - why indeed are we in the EU 'responsible' for the world's Islamic population? Surely the last place they would want to be is with us 'dogs' 'infidels' and 'imperialists'? They made it clear they didn't want the Europeans in their countries after WWII and their religion is diametrically opposed to most facets of our way of life. So why? Wouldn't be money, would it? Most have paid huge sums respective to their societies to be trafficked here, again why? An investment? And yes, I do know the difference between 95% (chancers) and 5% (refugees) and to that I simply add:

Under the UNCHR and EU Dublin treaty, a refugee should seek asylum in the FIRST safe nation they get to. Not the UK, not Germany, Sweden, Austria. In reality it's like a supermarket sweep when a reporter asks them in Greece "!Where to?" and the shouts go up 'YOOKAY' 'SJERMANY' or 'SWAYDEN'. It's a complete shambles and we are not legally required to, and should not take ANY in.

First of all, please stop telling me that I am brainwashed-by-the-liberal-media. I am a well educated and
informed person. I hope you can forgive me for not clicking your provided "proves".

Really a smart move from our governments, this"first save nation"-thing , but reality does not work that way. Simple.

I only can talk about circumstances in Germany and we do not have any problems with muslims or refugees or muslim refugees. There are no valid informations about refugees commiting more rapes or crimes in general. This is just pure bullshit. Nothing more to say about it.

 

[goatwack]

It's extremely naive to think that any country in Europe can sustain the numbers flooding in illegally without it having a detrimental effect in the long term.

Notice how the media and liberals will do anything to portray these people in a sympathetic light and even pigeonhole them into snug categories like economic migrants, refugees, immigrants etc, because you know, so I can differentiate them as they lay there in the train station with their six kids.

The world has become too small a place, whereas 15 years ago the information to and fro would have been stagnant at best, half these people are in possesion of smartphones and seem to have decided that Germany is the place to be. Which is funny because inevatibly most or all with pass through 'lesser' countries such as Serbia, Hungary etc but choose to erm, not stay there. Not enough freebies there perhaps?

It's not even an issue of claiming asylum is it, last time I checked going through the official channels didn't involve climbing under barbed wire, walking along traintracks or hopping on a dingy in pursuit of a great European Adventure. But here's the thing, if turned away or caught they will just keep trying (illegally) until they get in. That in itself shows no respect for that country's laws or its citizens.

Oh and let's not forget the places most of these people are from, ie countries we decimated through years of wars and who harbour bitter resentment towards our ideologies and laws. A husband and wife with 4 kids? hmm.....let's just chuck in another 'relative' who happens to want to pledge his life's work towards harming westerners. Is there any way of vetting these people? Of course there fucking isn't. ISIL must be rolling in the aisles with laughter at how stupid we are.

It is not Germany, UK, Europe or Mars' responsibilty to have to help these people. They are flouting every law both written and unwritten in their haphazard pursuit of an easy life. Not my problem, sorry to disappoint any liberals out there, they have little interest integrating into the society they have so vehemently fought to sneak into.

 

[The Dude]

... They are flouting every law both written and unwritten in their haphazard pursuit of an easy life. Not my problem, sorry to disappoint any libtards out there, they are nothing but a scourge and have ZERO interest into integrating into the society they have so vehemently fought to sneak into. Send em packing ASAP.

Oh, and RIP Germany. You were great once. You are soon to be the syphilis- laden painted maypole of Europe.

Germany, 2020

And this thread is now closed due to the above comments.

 

[The Dude]

After a brief discussion with goatwack, I've decided to reopen the thread with the caveat that members will remain cool and respectful towards one another.

And no using the -tard suffix. This is used way too often without considering the feelings of those who have disabled children/siblings, etc. Please don't do this.

 

[dionysus]

As a Canadian living in a country whose name is synonymous with 'mosaic' and 'immigation' I'd fear I'd be here as long as I am a few debate pages I frequent - but a short bit. We have a huge Muslim population here, immigrant (illegal or legal) or natural born - Muslim is actually the 2nd largest religion here - and we've been trucking along quite happily.
I hope as the debate continues people are cognizant of the fact that blanketing ANY race or religion is not only a disservice but monstrously dangerous AND ignorant.

 

[MiltonW]

If you are part of human race , you have an obligation of support and assistance when needed. Those refugees are mostly adults, educated and will have no problem of integration and adaptation in their new homelands in Europe.

What was wrong with Turkey? Or even Greece, Romania, or Hungary? All safe you know. These 'refugees' want the easy life... (i.e. welfare)

By the way, the neighboring countries like JORDAN, LEBANON, TOOK IN MILLIONS OF REFUGEES, EVEN THOUGH THE DONT HAVE THE MEANS. So that says a lot about their moral values.

Hmm, no. They are in tents, and have to go back when it's deemed safe. Quite different from actually being an immigrant.

 

[zaalouk29]

What was wrong with Turkey? Or even Greece, Romania, or Hungary? All safe you know. These 'refugees' want the easy life... (i.e. welfare)


Hmm, no. They are in tents, and have to go back when it's deemed safe. Quite different from actually being an immigrant.

You are exactly the type I was talking about I guess you should learn a thing or two from the fellow canadian who spoke about immigrants above. Take your arrogant, narrow minded and racism views back to holland and I wish another hitler rise up to show you what wars and refugees mean in case you forgot it

 

[hedgehok]

After a brief discussion with goatwack, I've decided to reopen the thread with the caveat that members will remain cool and respectful towards one another.

And no using the -tard suffix. This is used way too often without considering the feelings of those who have disabled children/siblings, etc. Please don't do this.

Thanks a lot. I was about to answer and had to recognize the thread was closed. I'm glad to answer now.

It's quite obvious to see where most people that have answered stand politically but as always there is no easy truth, no easy solution and we should respect that other people have other opinions.

As has been said already, most germans are very welcoming folks. We see the refugees as big challenge and it's humbling that many want to come to us - it's a great responsibility to deal with. I'm very happy that aside from some fatuous people here and there people reacted very helpful.

A big chunk of refugees come from balkan-countries like Serbia, Montenegro or Albania. There is a political agreement now that these people who are not threatened in their home-countries shall be deported after the asylum-application is declined. These "economic refugees" we are not talking about here.

Especially refugees from Syria we are talking about. These people (often menfolk with a couple of women and children) have years behind themself with a civil war and the ISIS nightmare. Many also come from Eritrea where they are suppressed by their own government. It's an act of humanity to help these people for the time being and try to integrate them as good as possible into the society. However that's the most difficult part, because that is very long-term process and there will be people that don't want or don't care to integrated. I agree to deal with these folks in a determined way in extreme cases also with deportation of course. But if people try hard to educate themself there will be a place for them. We have over 120,000 open aprenticeship training positions (September 2015) and many companies are lacking qualified employees. There is nothing wrong to give them the opportunity to work here. Our society ages and it's gonna be difficult to maintain or social security system and all the entitlements we have without changes.

I think it's very important to decide quickly what's going to happen with these people (decide about the asylum-application quickly). They should not just sit in their camps for weeks/month without any perspective. That's the biggest challenge we face right now.

To summarize: Yes I welcome most of the refugees and we should try to integrate them as good as possible until they can go back to their home-countries. Many of them will try to stay which is not a bad thing and we should try to offer them all possibilities to do so as long as they accept our constitutional rights. However there will be black sheeps and it's also important to deal with them accordingly.

 

[MiltonW]

You are exactly the type I was talking about I guess you should learn a thing or two from the fellow canadian who spoke about immigrants above. Take your arrogant, narrow minded and racism views back to holland and I wish another hitler rise up to show you what wars and refugees mean in case you forgot it

Hard to refute the facts huh... You conveniently ignore to explain why these 'refugees' feel the need to go to Germany, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, and other rich countries. If it was about safety, they would stop in Turkey.

 

[paul7388]

This immigration thing is way out of hand.

Sorry but not wanting your country flooded with refugees does not make you racist etc. as some have tried to say.

Watching the news lately and seeing all the boats full of people etc. its quite surprising how few families there are. The majority of the people on the boats are mainly male and in there twenties. If it was a case of families fleeing war zones etc. then I may feel different and although there are families their are two many single males.

What happened to staying in your countries and fighting for your freedom.

Also with all the terrorist alerts and threats made in our countries these days then Its not really safe to be taking so many single males into your country when you have no idea what their motives are and any idea of their history and backgrounds.

And sadly many of the immigrants only want to go to select few countries for the benefits etc. whether some members can accept that or not. Just look at the thousands trying to get into UK all the time. Why the UK, because of the benefits. If they were really only wanting to escape war then any country would do but no they want to come here.

 

[zaalouk29]

Hard to refute the facts huh... You conveniently ignore to explain why these 'refugees' feel the need to go to Germany, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, and other rich countries. If it was about safety, they would stop in Turkey.

Would you go to turkey or romania if you had the choice yourself? is turkey safer with ISIS next door and kurds terrorist attacks?

 

[MiltonW]

Would you go to turkey or romania if you had the choice yourself? is turkey safer with ISIS next door and kurds terrorist attacks?

Ok. Greece? Romania? Bulgaria? Hungary? Albania

Explain please. There is no other explanation than wanting money.

 

[The Dude]

You are exactly the type I was talking about I guess you should learn a thing or two from the fellow canadian who spoke about immigrants above. Take your arrogant, narrow minded and racism views back to holland and I wish another hitler rise up to show you what wars and refugees mean in case you forgot it

Please keep it mellow or the thread is closed. Do not call your fellow members arrogant, and please don't resort to Hitler statements.

 

[dionysus]

Ok. Greece? Romania? Bulgaria? Hungary? Albania

Explain please. There is no other explanation than wanting money.

Wanting money, employment opportunities and a 'western' lifestyle, in and of themselves is not a terrible goal. Not every immigrant is looking for a quick fix, but the best opportunities, like most.
If the process of receiving govt subsidies/benefits is too easy, the better path I'd think is petitioning the government to find better and fairer processes and not blame those seeking the leg up.

 

[zaalouk29]

Please keep it mellow or the thread is closed. Do not call your fellow members arrogant, and please don't resort to Hitler statements.

will GENGIS KHAN do ?

 

[zaalouk29]

Please keep it mellow or the thread is closed. Do not call your fellow members arrogant, and please don't resort to Hitler statements.

I didnt call arrogant, if you read well , you ll understand I am talking about his arrogant, narrow minded and racist views not his personality because I dont know him personnaly, and my friend thats my right to air or express my view and if you wish to close the thread thats your option but I owe to myself to speak up when in 2015 some fellows are carrying this kind of thoughts

 

[The Dude]

will GENGIS KHAN do ?

Since it's a thread that is about Germans, I feel that making Hitler statements can be inflammatory - no matter how they are used. All lot of people don't understand how serious a statement like this can be taken by a German - and not everyone here is a native English speaker, and may take any comparison to Nazis or Hitler the wrong way. I do not have time to babysit a potential forum meltdown because people are getting all riled up.

 

[MiltonW]

I didnt call arrogant, if you read well , you ll understand I am talking about his arrogant, narrow minded and racist views not his personality because I dont know him personnaly, and my friend thats my right to air or express my view and if you wish to close the thread thats your option but I owe to myself to speak up when in 2015 some fellows are carrying this kind of thoughts

If you can't tell that you the arrogant one And how am I racist? I explain to you that it's only about money. You haven't been able to refute that...

 

[hedgehok]

And sadly many of the immigrants only want to go to select few countries for the benefits etc. whether some members can accept that or not. Just look at the thousands trying to get into UK all the time. Why the UK, because of the benefits. If they were really only wanting to escape war then any country would do but no they want to come here.

Well if I could speak arabic and english where would I most likely try to go ?

 

[MiltonW]

Well if I could speak arabic and english where would I most likely try to go ?

Most Calais 'refugees' speak fluent French. They'd rather live in a tent for ten years and keep trying to get into the UK, than just stay in France...

 

[Casino2014man]

Well if I could speak arabic and english where would I most likely try to go ?

This makes sense, but then, in the Netherlands for example I would say 90% of people speak great English

 

[The Dude]

I didnt call arrogant, if you read well , you ll understand I am talking about his arrogant, narrow minded and racist views not his personality because I dont know him personnaly, and my friend thats my right to air or express my view and if you wish to close the thread thats your option but I owe to myself to speak up when in 2015 some fellows are carrying this kind of thoughts

I disagree. Calling his views arrogant and racist is painting him with the same brush.

You are free to express your viewpoints here as long as you behave yourself. I don't need to explain this any further.

 

[dionysus]

If you can't tell that you the arrogant one And how am I racist? I explain to you that it's only about money. You haven't been able to refute that...

That was explained. Plenty of immigrants seek not just employment, but a certain lifestyle (don't we all, after all?) If we've the braggadocio to tout how well we have it, it follows others would want it as well.
It isn't just about getting benefits - but about escape, schooling, raising families..and yes, quite honestly, contributing.

 

[paul7388]

Well if I could speak arabic and english where would I most likely try to go ?

Well sadly from experience a vast amount of immigrants staying in UK speak very little English.

 

[gagamel]

The european countries laid the cornerstones for the situation we have.

European soldiers raped, plundered and burned the whole world. Colonialism was the biggest crime in the history of mankind. Started with South America (90% of the natives killed), North America, Africa (8-10 million dead natives between 1888 and 1908 only in the Congo). We don`t want to talk about the slaves who where caught like animals and selled like pieces of flesh.

Europe always want to be the ethic leader in the world. Now we have a chance to show the rest of the world that Europe learned from the mistakes in the past. That the human is in the center of our mind. Every refugee has his story and every human has the right to live in peace and safety.

What would you do if all your neighbours are dead? Of course you will stand brave in your city and wait for the end. Sure?

And then after you lost everything you are in a "safe" country and there are people in front of your house with Molotow cocktails and hate in their minds.

The politicians show all their weakness every day in this situation. I don`t want to change the mind of anyone here. I just want to say:

Sympathy is a human quality and people who escaped from terror and war need us now.

Maybe you have some old clothes or a toy for these people. Maybe you just have some warm words to make them feel safe.

Everyone can show that the european ideas (freedom, fraternalism, equality) are not empty phrases.

Long story short:

Welcome to Europe

PS: I live in Swizterland but I`m German

 

[MiltonW]

That was explained. Plenty of immigrants seek not just employment, but a certain lifestyle (don't we all, after all?) If we've the braggadocio to tout how well we have it, it follows others would want it as well.
It isn't just about getting benefits - but about escape, schooling, raising families..and yes, quite honestly, contributing.

Exactly my point. So they are 'lifestyle' (or economic) refugees. And that's not allowed. Why not just open Europe, everyone is welcome, and just choose your country? Won't work...

 

[dionysus]

Exactly my point. So they are 'lifestyle' (or economic) refugees. And that's not allowed. Why not just open Europe, everyone is welcome, and just choose your country? Won't work...

You're cherry-picking. I didn't say JUST lifestyle; in fact, the word 'escape' was specifically used. If you're going to flee, there's nothing inherently wrong in choosing where you have the most opportunities.

 

[MiltonW]

You're cherry-picking. I didn't say JUST lifestyle; in fact, the word 'escape' was specifically used. If you're going to flee, there's nothing inherently wrong in choosing where you have the most opportunities.

Except you can not demand your choice to be granted. Nobody questions the US's greencard system. What would you think the US would do if millions of Arabs suddenly showed up at a trainstation?

 

[dionysus]

Except you can not demand your choice to be granted. Nobody questions the US's greencard system. What would you think the US would do if millions of Arabs suddenly showed up at a trainstation?

A little extreme a posit. And plenty question the US's system.

 

[MiltonW]

A little extreme a posit. And plenty question the US's system.

Why extreme? That is exactly what is happening. But if you don't like the US as an example, choose any other country then. Canada, China, Russia?
It's just strange that the world demands that Europe (Germany) takes all (economic) refugees. Let's spread them worldwide then.

 

[jetset]

You are exactly the type I was talking about I guess you should learn a thing or two from the fellow canadian who spoke about immigrants above. Take your arrogant, narrow minded and racism views back to holland and I wish another hitler rise up to show you what wars and refugees mean in case you forgot it

Exactly the sort of emotional response that got this thread shut down earlier. Try and keep cool as you debate this interesting issue.

 

[dionysus]

Why extreme? That is exactly what is happening. But if you don't like the US as an example, choose any other country then. Canada, China, Russia?
It's just strange that the world demands that Europe (Germany) takes all (economic) refugees. Let's spread them worldwide then.

Refugees are taken in across the world...the 'world' isn't demanding Europe open its doors to every last one. Let's be fair - a train as you say, hardly has the means to pull into port here. Canada currently takes in around 1 of every 10 refugees. Let's also note, Canada is essentially an immigation mosaic.

I'm not saying there's isn't any issues here need addressing. I'm not even German. If you'll note, I actually haven't addressed the German situation on numbers, but merit and toward immigation in general.

 

[MiltonW]

Refugees are taken in across the world...the 'world' isn't demanding Europe open its doors to every last one. Let's be fair - a train as you say, hardly has the means to pull into port here. Canada currently takes in around 1 of every 10 refugees. Let's also note, Canada is essentially an immigation mosaic.

You're finding all kinds of logistical excuses, but what if the US just put all Mexican (and other Latin/South American) 'refugees' on a train to Canada. EXACTLY what is happening in Europe.

 

[zaalouk29]

Exactly the sort of emotional response that got this thread shut down earlier. Try and keep cool as you debate this interesting issue.

I am very cool and as I said it is very easy to question refugees motives when you are sitting comfortly in your home as you are not the one living the situation

I also dont understand someone from holland raising hell about refugees as if they came knocking at his doors !!!!

since this is about germans as the BOSS said, it is funny that a german who answered earlier is far more tolerant and willing to give help and suppor tto refugees than this guy

 

[dionysus]

You're finding all kinds of logistical excuses, but what if the US just put all Mexican (and other Latin/South American) 'refugees' on a train to Canada. EXACTLY what is happening in Europe.

Logistical excuses. Silly me, I thought debate was about logic and not just emotion.
And no, the 2 situations aren't synonymous (nor related). Re: strawman

 

[MiltonW]

Logistical excuses. Silly me, I thought debate was about logic and not just emotion.
And no, the 2 situations aren't synonymous (nor related). Re: strawman

Why not? And logistical doesn't mean logical? What would Canada do, if all Latin/South American 'refugees' chose to go to Canada?

 

[dionysus]

Why not? And logistical doesn't mean logical? What would Canada do, if all Latin/South American 'refugees' chose to go to Canada?

Again, not the point.