Non-Bonus Complaint 32Red refuse to give me my money back

[Frank123]

I deposited into 32Red using Ukash several times before, and played through, lost some money usually, never had any issues.

In December I swapped some bitcoins I was holding for ukash vouchers through someone I dealt with online, (Around £300) I figured I could deposit them on 32Red and play, I've done it before, usually on bet365 where I play blackjack. People will pay a premium for bitcoins with ukash so it's a nice way to gamble cheaply.

I played a few hundred pounds, I think about £200 in total before requesting a ukash withdrawal, they denied my withdrawal and asked for proof of purchase.

I said I had purchased them online through someone on an ecurrency forum and they said they need proof that I purchased them personally. I said I can provide emails showing who I purchased them from but that isn't good enough.

Now I am told there is no way to get my money back since I can't prove I purchased the vouchers, nor can I play with the money as my account is locked.

When I have lost money on 32red I have never been asked for proof of where I purchased the vouchers, it's never been an issue, but the second I want to withdraw money they refuse to do it.

They won't give me any alternative but to prove I purchased the vouchers in store myself (which I did not so I can't)

What irks me is that if I had lost all the money they'd have been perfectly happy without proof of purchase, but because I wanted to withdraw some of it, suddenly it is a security issue that they need to see proof of purchase.

I have asked if there is a timeframe whereby they give me my money back after say 90 days or 180 days, and they said no, they will simply keep the money forever unless I can provide something which they know I don't have.

They told me to contact ukash for help, Ukash said once it's been given to a merchant it's up to the merchant.

Do I have any recourse here? Or have 32Red just done me out of £300 permanently, and there is no method for me to get my money back?

See Related Threads:

• Neteller's New and Weird UKASH Policy
• Neteller Deposit Issues with UKASH
• CasinoLuck Withdrawal Delay Tactics
• So 32Red Just Blocked My Account
• Ukash - Information Update

 

[Nifty29]

Sounds like the vouchers may be dodgy.

One thing's for sure.....calling them scammers won't help you one iota.

 

[dionysus]

Well, starting by calling them scammers isn't really going to do much to curry a lot of warm fuzzies from the casino. You could have come in and relayed your concern. The rep here (did you contact him?) may have helped resolve this efficiently.

As to verification, almost all casinos look for it when withdrawing - it simply isn't feasible to do it before depositing, and frankly, far more people would be turned off by casinos doing it that way.
Their concern on the surface seems valid...like insuring a CC you deposit with is in fact yours.

 

[maphesto]

@op:

32red are accredited here and I suggest you contact their rep here:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

You may have bought all your vouchers in good faith, if you can't solve this with the help from their rep you can file a PAB:

Link Outdated / Removed

32red are not scammers, that's for sure! Can they help you, they will help you!

 

[Frank123]

Well, starting by calling them scammers isn't really going to do much to curry a lot of warm fuzzies from the casino. You could have come in and relayed your concern. The rep here (did you contact him?) may have helped resolve this efficiently.

As to verification, almost all casinos look for it when withdrawing - it simply isn't feasible to do it before depositing, and frankly, far more people would be turned off by casinos doing it that way.
Their concern on the surface seems valid...like insuring a CC you deposit with is in fact yours.

I'm not too concerned about their feelings in all honesty, after a month of back and forth with them refusing to budge I don't have much to lose.

As to only verifying withdrawals, it's hypocrisy, they wouldn't expect any sort of verification as long as the money is staying in their bank.

When you want to take it elsewhere, suddenly it's a security issue?


Someone taking my money, and refusing to give it back under any circumstances unless I do something they already know I can't - is a scam.

 

[maxd]

Original thread title, "32Red Casino Scam - 32 red refuse to give me my money back", is misleading and inappropriate: changed to "32Red refuse to give me my money back".

 

[Frank123]

@op:

32red are accredited here and I suggest you contact their rep here:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

You may have bought all your vouchers in good faith, if you can't solve this with the help from their rep you can file a PAB:

Link Outdated / Removed

32red are not scammers, that's for sure! Can they help you, they will help you!

Thanks, yes I have contacted the rep on here.

I know, I've never had an issue with them and using ukash.

If they're concerned they might be stolen surely they can wait 6 months or something. That's what I don't understand, if they said "look you can't use bought vouchers, so we need to wait 180 days" I'd say ok fair enough, my mistake.

But right now all I'm getting from them is "We're never giving you your money back" - which doesn't seem right

 

[dionysus]

I'm not too concerned about their feelings in all honesty, after a month of back and forth with them refusing to budge I don't have much to lose.

As to only verifying withdrawals, it's hypocrisy, they wouldn't expect any sort of verification as long as the money is staying in their bank.

When you want to take it elsewhere, suddenly it's a security issue?


Someone taking my money, and refusing to give it back under any circumstances unless I do something they already know I can't - is a scam.

1. sure you do - your credibility, evoking help from members, building a good-faith rapport with the casino

2. No, that's common sense in some places. If I bought a purchase from a store and brought it back without the receipt, they aren't going to give me my money.

 

[Frank123]

1. sure you do - your credibility, evoking help from members, building a good-faith rapport with the casino

2. No, that's common sense in some places. If I bought a purchase from a store and brought it back without the receipt, they aren't going to give me my money.

1) Like I said, I don't have much to lose.

2) If a store was online, and can see the date, time and amount of the purchase you made, they would.

It's wonderful that you'd like to argue over the best way to word a complaint, this is my opinion on how I feel after a dealing with 32Red, maybe you feel I haven't been scammed, I however feel that i have been.

 

[dionysus]

Well, that's the beauty of the forum. You came here here for feedback, and people are providing it. They don't have any obligation to agree with your point of view, nor do you have the control over the feedback or opinions you receive.

What you do have to lose, however, as is apparent from your initial post, is your money. And honey will almost always work better than the vinegar, especially here...and it's you who came here soliciting help.

 

[Jory]

I have been using UKASH vouchers at 32red for maybe 6-7 years. If I win I withdraw to my NETeller account.

I submitted a withdrawal last week and I was contacted be their payments manager Lorna to make me aware that they will now only allow UKASH deposits to be withdrawn via UKASH. My account there is in USD and my vouchers in GBP so NETeller is an ideal withdrawal method for me. As I am a verified player she was willing to make an exception and allow me to continue receiving withdrawals to NETeller.

The reason for their change in policy is because there is a lot of UKASH fraud. A typical senario is that a player obtains a UKASH voucher through scamming someone online. They then use the casino as a banking portal. They deposit a large sum in UKASH and wager a little on Blackjack or Roulette. They often do not even wager as much as the original deposit before submitting a withdrawal. Once the money comes back to them it's now "clean".

Your method of obtaining the voucher sounds very dodgy. You are not allowed to sell or trade vouchers as this is against the UKASH T&Cs. UKASH is not a true currency like Bitcoin. The fact you wagered so little on a large deposit and then tried to withdrawal is why your account was flagged.

 

[Nifty29]

1) Like I said, I don't have much to lose.

2) If a store was online, and can see the date, time and amount of the purchase you made, they would.

It's wonderful that you'd like to argue over the best way to word a complaint, this is my opinion on how I feel after a dealing with 32Red, maybe you feel I haven't been scammed, I however feel that i have been.

I'd say it's fairly obvious that you were deliberately playing through a minimum amount, and then withdrawing.

According to you, the deposit was $300 and you played about $200, and then withdrew....that would raise a flag at ANY casino. I mean, who deposits, doesn't even play through it once, and withdraws it again? It's money laundering 101.

Sorry, but your behaviour sounds very dodgy based on your own posts. I'm sure when we hear from the casino, it will look much the same.

UKash does not allow trading of vouchers, so you have pretty much clipped your own card in saying that you got it from some guy online.

 

[bigjohn]

It seems like the OP is trying to act as a financial institution of sorts, buying, selling, and trading virtual currencies if only on a small scale. The difference is with an actual financial institution there is records and documentation of transactions.

Edit; From what I have seen so far, 32Red are far from any kind of scammers.

 

[Slotster!]

I used to use UKash a bit as it seemed like a pretty easy/non "gambling flag on your bank account" kind of way to deposit.

It was only after accidentally buying vouchers for UNDER 18's on three separate god damn m***** f****** occasions I gave up.

There's not a lot you can buy online with UKash that isn't gambling, and I'm an idiot.

Anyway, 32Red are as straight up as they come - so if they are not paying you - there's a good reason. If they've made a mistake, they'll listen - and then fix it.

And do you want to buy some magic beans?

 

[Jonathan_32Red]

Hi Frank123,

Having checked with my colleagues we don't appear to have received any direct contact from you, would you mind sending me a PM with your username and I'll happily look into it further for you

 

[dunover]

I must admit this sounds a bit sniffy to me. You said vouchers (plural) which means you didn't have to deposit ALL of them at 32red. You did, and then made a w/d after playing a token amount of game turnover which was LESS than the total deposit amount. You may be innocent, but this does look like laundering from the casino's point of view. Why didn't you cash/convert the UKcash vouchers yourself if they were OK, then play at 32red later?
Mmmmmm.....

 

[chuchu59]

I would be interested to learn who the true scammer is. People need to be Frank lol.

 

[maxd]

Perhaps one additional change to the thread title is in order. Anyone like "32Red refuse to give me money"?

 

[rena35]

If your guilty,you deserve what you get. If your innocent, i wish you the best of luck.

 

[KasinoKing]

Perhaps one additional change to the thread title is in order. Anyone like "32Red refuse to give me money"?

Well at the moment "32Red refuse to launder my money" seems like it might be more appropriate...

KK

 

[Mouche12]

If 32Red had suspected that these Ukash vouchers were fake, should they not have noticed earlier and taken the appropriate action, since the OP has used them several times before (and lost on these occasions)?

IF the Ukash vouchers turn out to be fake, 32Red in the end would be the only party benefiting from this scam.

 

[dionysus]

If 32Red had suspected that these Ukash vouchers were fake, should they not have noticed earlier and taken the appropriate action, since the OP has used them several times before (and lost on these occasions)?

IF the Ukash vouchers turn out to be fake, 32Red in the end would be the only party benefiting from this scam.

Not really. The op bought them and was aware from whence he bought them, and in turn, was allowed to use them to play.

There wasn't anything (that I recall) saying 32Red suspected they were fake up until they went through the security checks for withdraws. As mentioned dozens of times in these threads, it isn't feasible for casinos to run checks prior to depositing. That would alienate thousands more players.

 

[Nifty29]

If 32Red had suspected that these Ukash vouchers were fake, should they not have noticed earlier and taken the appropriate action, since the OP has used them several times before (and lost on these occasions)?

IF the Ukash vouchers turn out to be fake, 32Red in the end would be the only party benefiting from this scam.

We don't know the actual reason yet. Some of us have just surmised...we might be wrong.

The reason the flag was raised this time (IMO) is because they've attempted to wash, rinse and spin dry some money. It's possible the other vouchers were legit (and perhaps even these), but it appears he didn't play the same way with those I.e. wager a little, then cashout....otherwise he would have been caught earlier.

I'd say there must be a VERY good reason for 32Red not to refund the money. Remember, we're talking about a few hundred quid here....I just can't see a huge entity like 32Red risking their reputation over such a piddling amount.

I'm sure we'll know more when the rep chimes in.

 

[Jory]

If 32Red had suspected that these Ukash vouchers were fake, should they not have noticed earlier and taken the appropriate action, since the OP has used them several times before (and lost on these occasions)?

IF the Ukash vouchers turn out to be fake, 32Red in the end would be the only party benefiting from this scam.

The vouchers can not be faked. Each voucher contains a unique 19 digit number with a value of up to £500. The voucher must have been valid or the casino would have declined it.

The scam is that people are often tricked into paying for goods or services using these vouchers. Once the scammer receives the number they can cash it in immediately then break off contact with the buyer.

To simply say that you got the voucher from some guy on the internet, is the equivalent of saying you're just using some guys credit card.

OP said 32red locked his account. This suggests something more serious is going on here. They do not lock accounts without good reason.

I do not believe 32red will be keeping this money. If UKASH have contacted 32red to inform them that a voucher used to deposit at their casino was reported as stolen, then 32reds first step will be to lock the associated account and ask for proof of purchase.

 

[Mouche12]

Just a thought: I wonder if we may ever get to use BIT COINS for deposits... Although there's no bank or e-wallet to support this type of "currency".

 

[Jory]

Just a thought: I wonder if we may ever get to use BIT COINS for deposits... Although there's no bank or e-wallet to support this type of "currency".

Good point. The one headache with these payment methods is that they are anonymous. I think casinos prefer payment methods that prove your idendity.

 

[ChillBill]

I deposited into 32Red using Ukash several times before, and played through, lost some money usually, never had any issues.

In December I swapped some bitcoins I was holding for ukash vouchers through someone I dealt with online, (Around £300) I figured I could deposit them on 32Red and play, I've done it before, usually on bet365 where I play blackjack. People will pay a premium for bitcoins with ukash so it's a nice way to gamble cheaply.

I played a few hundred pounds, I think about £200 in total before requesting a ukash withdrawal, they denied my withdrawal and asked for proof of purchase.

I said I had purchased them online through someone on an ecurrency forum and they said they need proof that I purchased them personally. I said I can provide emails showing who I purchased them from but that isn't good enough.

Given what other members have posted and knowing there is a Ukash scam going around, which is similar in so many ways to what the OP states above, I'm siding with everyone else on this one. If this turns out to be a legitimate issue and not a scam, then it will serve as a valuable lesson, not only for Frank123 but anyone else. Don't do cash deals online with strangers

The one headache with these payment methods is that they are anonymous.

When I purchase a Western Union or receive a WU, I must supply a photo driver license as prood of ID. Doesn't Ukash require the same proof of id? If they do then these vouchers are traceable.

 

[Jory]

When I purchase a Western Union or receive a WU, I must supply a photo driver license as prood of ID. Doesn't Ukash require the same proof of id? If they do then these vouchers are traceable.

It's basically anonymous. You pay the retailer cash and they print you the voucher.

They could trace where a voucher was purchased and used, but not the identity of the person who purchased it.

I like to use it so I never have gambling transactions on my cards.

 

[ChillBill]

It's basically anonymous. You pay the retailer cash and they print you the voucher.

They could trace where a voucher was purchased and used, but not the identity of the person who purchased it.

I like to use it so I never have gambling transactions on my cards.

Essentially a casino could be accepting deposits from anyone and that money, could have come from anywhere. Is that about right?

 

[Jory]

Essentially a casino could be accepting deposits from anyone and that money, could have come from anywhere. Is that about right?

Pretty much. This is why a casino requesting proof of purchase is a very reasonable request.

 

[bigjohn]

I got a feeling we won't be seeing the OP around here anymore.

Judging by his 'About Me' his was a one issue membership with a single mission and I think he realized this was probably not a place to get much sympathy without answering a few questions first.

 

[ChillBill]

This is why a casino requesting proof of purchase is a very reasonable request.

I agree, though, if a casino is only checking validity when a player actions a withdrawal from a Ukash deposit, then they should also be conducting random checks on Ukash deposits. Least before funds are credited to the players account. Accepting deposits without checks but then expecting proof on a withdrawal because a Ukash voucher can be acquired by questionable means, can turns this into, a win win for the casino

 

[Cleveland]

I agree, though, if a casino is only checking validity when a player actions a withdrawal from a Ukash deposit, then they should also be conducting random checks on Ukash deposits. Least before funds are credited to the players account. Accepting deposits without checks but then expecting proof on a withdrawal because a Ukash voucher can be acquired by questionable means, can turns this into, a win win for the casino

Well if we are going to be honest the casino would likely lose a decent number of players. Security checks can't always been done quickly. A player who wants to play "now" would have to wait. Many such as myself would happily go elsewhere to deposit where we can play straight away. Case in point there is a casino who requested my docs before my first deposit. I said I would send them in, and I just now remembered about it while writing this post. I clearly never sent them, and just played elsewhere.

While it would be admirable to do it prior, I'm sure many players would be a bit turned off by it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The scammer may be the one selling the vouchers and taking Bitcoin in payment. By asking for some proof of purchase, 32Red may be willing to accept that a duff voucher was bought in good faith, and stump up the money even though they won't be getting it.

A fake voucher does not benefit the casino as when they ask Ukash for payment, they won't get it. This is probably the point at which they realise the voucher is not legit. I think the scam is to try to sell of already used vouchers, and the last merchant to present the voucher number for payment is the one that loses out.

If the check could be made immediately on a given voucher, there would be no need to apply the policy of only allowing withdrawals back to Ukash. Such a policy would give them the opportunity to cancel a Ukash voucher they issues if they were to discover the fraud quickly enough.

Given all these issues, I am surprised casinos accept UKash in the first place. I tried it once when it was fairly new (it was a royal pain in the arse, so never again). The problem is traceability. UKash only have a record of the first sale of the voucher code, not the unofficial resale. They will also have in place systems that prevent the same voucher being used more than once.

UKash can't really enforce the resale prohibition due to the untraceable nature of the systems, but if they catch it happening, they can cancel the voucher in order to protect the rightful owner, the person who can prove that they purchased it legitimately.

UKash seem very reluctant to sell UKash online, presumably because they can't secure the system enough to prevent scams. This meant many unofficial sellers offered online sales, knowing that there was demand, but no official supply.

I haven't checked recently, but UKash may by now have implemented an official remote sales outlet, where the voucher is sent by email or SMS.

 

[Slotster!]

If the check could be made immediately on a given voucher, there would be no need to apply the policy of only allowing withdrawals back to Ukash. Such a policy would give them the opportunity to cancel a Ukash voucher they issues if they were to discover the fraud quickly enough.

I'm pretty sure the UKash verification/authentication is immediate; just like a credit card. Once that number is spent, it's spent. It definitely wouldn't show up as available balance if it was a dud voucher or had been used before.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'm pretty sure the UKash verification/authentication is immediate; just like a credit card. Once that number is spent, it's spent. It definitely wouldn't show up as available balance if it was a dud voucher or had been used before.

The problem might then be that in the event of a dispute over the ownership of the voucher, the one that can prove it's theirs gets to keep it, and the one that can't doesn't, and if already spent by a scammer, UKash recover the money from the merchant that accepted it, much like the way a stolen credit card will work fine until the theft is discovered by the rightful owner and the bank blocks the card and recalls the fraudulent transactions.

By asking for proof of purchase in what is a highly irregular story as to how the OP came to possess this UKash voucher, 32Red are covering their ass in case they are getting scammed.