Bonus Complaint 21Grand Casino "Bonus Abuse"

[De Beuker]

I never said I agreed with the decision. Just that the rep was a nice guy. There is no way I would advise anyone to play at either of these casinos after this. It's been a long drawn out mess and in the end i lose out on $1400. Like I said before, I'm just done with this whole thing and really getting something was better than I expected after all the time it took.

It's pretty easy to cash out near the %100 threshold. All you have to do is check once in a while to see if the WR are met in the cashier...

Yep, or you can keep track of it through your loyalty points.
1 point for every 1.- wagered.
Not really rocketscience to calculate how many points you need to gather for 3000.- wagering is it?
At least I do not need 3rd party software for that, lol.

I'm still flabbergasted about that 3rd party software comment the rep made.
As you say, its THEIR OWN software that tells you you're good to go.

21GRAND: :machinegu

 

[BingoT]

Just that the rep was a nice guy

Always watch out for this old saying.
"Nice Guys Finish Last"

 

[KasinoKing]

It's pretty easy to cash out near the %100 threshold. All you have to do is check once in a while to see if the WR are met in the cashier...

It doesn't matter HOW you count your wagers; If the WR is say $3,000, then it's $3,000 - not $3,000 + some mystery amount you are supposed to guess!
If you met the WR to the exact penny they must still pay you - anything else is just rogue behavior.

Can you remind me - did you Pitch a Bitch about this or not?
Only MaxD said he's been getting a good response to most so far...

KK

 

[billy_g22]

Yes, I did PAB. Max said this PAB is closed "resolved." And advised me to take whatever deal I can get because it's probably the best I'm going to get. Just to be clear, I'm not complaining...Just sharing what happened

I fully agree about the WR...But at this point I'm pretty much at the mercy of the casino to pay me or not. With the way they handled all this and how long it took to get anything, $500 felt like a deal. I expected to get nothing.

The funny thing about this whole thing is $1400 of the money that was being withheld was made on a deposit I didn't claim a bonus. But they say they should have locked my accounts months ago.

 

[De Beuker]

Yes, I did PAB. Max said this PAB is closed "resolved." And advised me to take whatever deal I can get because it's probably the best I'm going to get. Just to be clear, I'm not complaining...Just sharing what happened

I fully agree about the WR...But at this point I'm pretty much at the mercy of the casino to pay me or not. With the way they handled all this and how long it took to get anything, $500 felt like a deal. I expected to get nothing.

The funny thing about this whole thing is $1400 of the money that was being withheld was made on a deposit I didn't claim a bonus. But they say they should have locked my accounts months ago.

WTF!!

Do I understand this right?
You won that money on a STRAIGHT deposit?!?
No bonus?
And then they confiscated your winnings because you cashed out too soon AFTER clearing the WR on a PREVIOUS deposit + bonus?

This is getting more ridiculous every minute..

 

[billy_g22]

WTF!!

Do I understand this right?
You won that money on a STRAIGHT deposit?!?
No bonus?
And then they confiscated your winnings because you cashed out too soon AFTER clearing the WR on a PREVIOUS deposit + bonus?

This is getting more ridiculous every minute..

They said I had 3 withdrawals from the past that were near the %100 WR. I had a withdrawal for $1400 from supreme play that was won off a $25 deposit no bonus. A day or two later I had a $475 withdrawal with 21 grand and I claimed a bonus. I'm pretty sure I cashed out near %100 WR on that one as well but I never knew there was an issue with it..

Honestly the way I feel is they closed my account because I was ahead in the casino by quite a bit and used the WR as an excuse to withhold some money because they were going to close my accounts anyway. Then they stalled everything until I felt like getting $500 was a gift. Which at this point...I do. I had counted the money as gone.

 

[fahrradfloh]

When bonus money is directly involved in play, Casinos might feel they gave you a gift and they don't like what you did with that gift and may decide not to pay you. Even if this in most cases isn't always right and fair (and sometimes really rogueish), it is at least a bit understandable.
However, if I got it right and the case is exactly like I understand, it is just pure theft of the worst kind.

Imagine you play in a land-based casino and bet $50 on a single number on Roulette. This number shows up, and you win $1750. Now the floorman comes along and states: "You came here three times last week, bet only $1 on Roulette, took our free drink we gave you and disappeared. You have abused our good faith and are a persona non grata. So unfortunately, we cannot pay your winnings, I'm really sorry".

Hey folks: This is the by far the worst thing I have every heard about a casino having done, I think even the Virtual Group with their foul tricks never did something like that. At least most rogue casinos seem to look for an excuse while stretching their T&C to the maximum, but this here???

I have heard the CIGA might not be a very strict regulation authority, but THIS is enough to cancel a casino license. And even if you took the $500, I really think this shouldn't end here. I know from my own experience that fighting for your win costs a lot of nerves and stress and time, but I think there's no other case where a player is 110% right and must get paid, and this will be the opinion of every sane human in the world.

 

[billy_g22]

What they said on their side is that my account should have been closed long ago and somehow slipped through the cracks.

Attaching a copy of an email I received on 9/14. This is the only thing i had received prior to this week on why my account was locked.

Hi,

Thanks for your email, after viewing your casino accounts we see that you have abused the bonus system for a long time, it is up to the casino to make this choice due to an increase in casino activity this went unknown for a long time and such as your account would have been frozen long before now.

We hope you understand this as the bonus system is a give from the casino and not for abuse.

We hope you understand.

Many thanks

Rachael
Customer Support


Honestly I wouldn't even know where to take this from here..

 

[maxd]

Honestly I wouldn't even know where to take this from here..

In your correspondence with me you said you were happy to get what you got and be done with it. Are you now saying this is not the case?

 

[KasinoKing]

What they said on their side is that my account should have been closed long ago and somehow slipped through the cracks.

So they are making YOU pay for THEIR mistake!

Honestly I wouldn't even know where to take this from here..

Ask Max nicely if he would consider re-opening your PAB.
You personally may not be too bothered about this, but we MUST send the message to this (and all casinos), that this type of theft is totally unacceptable!

KK

 

[billy_g22]

Max,

you yourself told me I was pretty much at the mercy of the casino and should take whatever I could get. Of course I'm much happier getting $500 than I am $50.

It was really nice actually getting some kind of contact and an explanation as well. But in no way do I think I shouldn't have been paid the full amount of my winnings. Do I feel like I am getting screwed in the deal? Sure...But what else can I do? I'm ready to have this done, but I also want people to know that what they did was very shady as well.

Sorry if my disappointment didn't show as much in the email I sent. But it was there. Maybe it was just overshadowed by the fact I was happy to be getting anything back

 

[vinylweatherman]

Oh great! The industry has sunk to a new low. Now winnings are being confiscated because you OBEYED the terms and conditions. They also trot out this excuse that simply knowing how much you have wagered is FRAUD. Did the person who thought this one up actually know the software, and that this information was simply there in the cashier all along. This is WORSE than the "Tradition fiasco", where a CLEARLY untrained member of staff was given UNSUPERVISED access to the "bridge", and steered the casino, and the whole Rival brand, right onto the rocks.

There is a difference between willingly accepting an offer, and being BULLIED into taking an IMPOSED OFFER. One might take the imposed offer, but this in no way means one is happy with it, rather that refusal to take it might mean it is withdrawn altogether, and for good.

THIS is the casino, remember, whos rep came on here with INDIGNATION that his fine establishment had been lumped together with those "other white labels" and dumped in the pit alongside them. It is clear that this "fine establishment" was the worst of the lot (so far).

Rival as a brand seem hell bent on corporate suicide. Perhaps the well run independents should consider "jumping ship" before they too end up on the rocks because of the reputation Rival is getting from this steady descent into the abyss of roguedom.

Since ALL white labels are essentially "owned and operated by Silverstone", we should consider that ALL white labels are likely to adopt similar policies once they see this is "OK with Silverstone" in this case.


PS, Virtual have ALREADY pulled this particular stunt - voiding an RJ progressive of around $6000 won from a deposit without a bonus based on PAST use of bonuses and free chips by a player.

 

[De Beuker]

These are the terms these crooks use to confiscate winnings.
They basically say they have the right to do whatever they want.
A FU clause if ever I saw one, damn..

Rival is indeed going rogue..

 

[Nifty29]

These are the terms these crooks use to confiscate winnings.
They basically say they have the right to do whatever they want.
A FU clause if ever I saw one, damn..

Rival is indeed going rogue..

Going?????

 

[De Beuker]

Going?????

Yes, you're right.
I'm sorry for defending them in the past.
But I've always believed they would do the right thing in the end and weed out the bad ones.
There was a Rival rep. over at AGD forum who promised to take care of the issues mentioned in this thread.
He obviously did not.
So thats what their promises are worth. Nothing.
And there is more going on, players are getting screwed all over atm.
There are several really sad stories on other forums too.
And there's Headors case at SOF.
And the 80K issue from TIV..

Its too much, and no action is taken by Rival, so I wont be playing there anymore.
I'll miss the games, but enough is enough.
They finally lost my trust.

 

[fahrradfloh]

Oh well, nothing but promises unfortunately. Seems no one looked into it and no one responded to Max. I guess the only way that remains for me would be the CIGA which doesn't seem to be too helpful

 

[KasinoKing]

I asked the affiliate rep about these outstanding PABs yesterday and much to my disappointment he basically just washed his hands of them & said it was down to the casino management, who were still considering these cases apparently... more than 6-weeks since this all kicked off.

Seems they don't give a toss what members here think of them.
Strange attitude IMO.

KK

 

[De Beuker]

I asked the affiliate rep about these outstanding PABs yesterday and much to my disappointment he basically just washed his hands of them & said it was down to the casino management, who were still considering these cases apparently... more than 6-weeks since this all kicked off.

Seems they don't give a toss what members here think of them.
Strange attitude IMO.

KK

Considering these cases?
Believe me, they are not considering anything.
They invoked their FU clause and thats it, and altough the player did not break any T&C's they wont pay.

They showed their true face, they are as rogue as it gets.
So stay away as far as possible in the future and move on..
Its sad, but what else can you do?

 

[simonwhite]

I asked the affiliate rep about these outstanding PABs yesterday and much to my disappointment he basically just washed his hands of them & said it was down to the casino management, who were still considering these cases apparently... more than 6-weeks since this all kicked off.

Seems they don't give a toss what members here think of them.
Strange attitude IMO.

KK

Come on KK, I never said I was washing my hands with them, what I said was that these issues need to be dealt with by our Player Manager. I am in charge of the affiliates and it’s important for me to get any issues resolved but I am not the one who will ultimately resolve them as I don’t deal with individual players.

That is the duty of the Player Managers and the Casino Management, I have just been alerting them to these issues and getting them to look into them.

We have just brought in a new player manager (which is why there have been further delays in rectifying this).

I have updated her on this post and any others and she will no doubt post on the forum shortly and be doing her best to resolve any and all outstanding issues as soon as possible.

 

[maxd]

... she will no doubt post on the forum shortly and be doing her best to resolve any and all outstanding issues as soon as possible.

You might mention to her that there are several PABs left outstanding. I look forward to hearing from her on these.

 

[simonwhite]

You might mention to her that there are several PABs left outstanding. I look forward to hearing from her on these.

Of course Maxd, she is just settling into the role and being brought up to speed on all her various duties.

I have updated her on all PAB's and she will deal with them as soon as she can and no doubt be in touch with you directly too.

 

[Nifty29]

*creaaaaaaaaaak*.........CLUMP!


Phew!

Just as well you shut those stable doors Simon!



IMO whether you had 'new managers taking over' or 'a disturbance in the time vortex' - it is immaterial. All of this should have been dealt with at the time and no amount of 'consideration' is going to make it better.

The only sensible way to resolve this is to pay the player - ban him or whatever you like - but from what we have seen here he did not break any rules. He made some wagers on slots and got very lucky...it could just as easily gone the other way. In other words, he gambled his money fair and square and refusing to pay him based on some lame 'abuse' nonsense is a disgrace. FFS how can you 'abuse' a bonus with 30WR or more on slots????

I used to play at Rival almost at the exclusion of anywhere else.

Now I wouldn't pee on them if they were on fire.

 

[fahrradfloh]

Just a quick update:
A player account manager from 21Grand contacted me some days ago and asked for an explanation from my perspective of what happened and the amount I think they owe me. I was busy over Christmas, so I just responded to him today, and will let you know here how things will develop.

 

[fahrradfloh]

Well, everything still in progress. Now after about 10 more e-mails the player account manager, Adam, who was very kind and responsive, is on his annual vacation and the other one doesn't respond to my e-mail yet. Guess I have to wait some more, but at least things seem to be taken care of somewhat.

 

[De Beuker]

Well, everything still in progress. Now after about 10 more e-mails the player account manager, Adam, who was very kind and responsive, is on his annual vacation and the other one doesn't respond to my e-mail yet. Guess I have to wait some more, but at least things seem to be taken care of somewhat.

Ah, so after 'looking into it' for 3 months they decided they need a 3 weeks holiday to think it over even more?
Lets just hope you receive your money then.. before Christmas 2012..