Bonus Complaint 21Grand Casino "Bonus Abuse"

[Mousey]

Ah, so after 'looking into it' for 3 months they decided they need a 3 weeks holiday to think it over even more?
Lets just hope you receive your money then.. before Christmas 2012..

Maybe they're ultra busy moving into Betfair's offices.... (that's a joke folks)

See Related Threads:

• 21Grand: Pay Attention (IMHO)
• Rivals Dropping Like Flies
• 21Grand
• Definition Of, Or What Exactly Is 'Bonus Abuse'?
• Define Bonus Abuse

 

[SlotsLover]

thrilled

Ah, so after 'looking into it' for 3 months they decided they need a 3 weeks holiday to think it over even more?
Lets just hope you receive your money then.. before Christmas 2012..

I'd be thrilled to get the money they owe me by Christmas 2012!

 

[unhappy]

Brief: 21Grand voided my winnings because I have bet only the minimum wagering required.

I deposited 200€ at 21Grand on 25. August, and took the welcome bonus (500€ non-withdrawable). After finishing the large wagering required one day later, I cashed out 901€. On 9. September I received an e-mail asking me to provide my passport and a utility bill, which I sent them the same day.
Until 20. September I didn't bother to ask as I already had read on CM about the current Rival issues.
However on 20. September after nearly a month I contacted live chat to ask about my withdrawal. The chat was in German, so I cannot post it here, but I will translate the most important parts:

(...)
I: I have requested a payout three weeks ago, and still have not been paid
Nathan: Ok. One moment. Let me check.
I: What's the problem? I have read some worrying news on Casinomeister.
Nathan: I have tried to contact you, but then was on vacation and didn't have time to try it again. Unfortunately, I cannot allow you to withdraw. You have abused the bonus system of our house.
I: Sorry?
Nathan: Unfortunately, we have noticed that you have bet the exactly the minimum amount required. We will void your winnings and, of course, refund your deposit.
I: Listen, you make the rules and I fulfilled them. So I won't accept this.
Nathan: But you have to.
I: On what basis do you do that?
Nathan: Your behaviour is comparable with card-counting in BJ. With which you have exploited the bonus system.
(...)
I: Please respond me. On which paragraph in your terms do you refer?
Nathan: 1.3.2. You acknowledge hereby that the Casino is not obliged to give you prior notice of its decision to refuse, deregister or exclude or suspend you, nor to furnish you with any reasons for such decision.
Nathan: 1.4.1.1. withhold payment to you of any contested funds whether such contested funds are deposits, refunds, bonuses, free monies, casino credits, payouts or the like; and/or
I: That means in plain english: You can do just what you would like to.
Nathan: No, but online casinos are very strict in regards of bonus abuse.
I: Oh, I see. Winning is abusing.
Nathan: No, we like it very much when customers win. But to come into the casino, bet with system and betting exactly to the cent the minimum wagering amount is something we don't like.
(...)
I: If you offer a bonus, there are rules. I have fulfilled them, and I think you should do so, too.
Nathan: Yes, that's right. But nevertheless another point is that one assumes system play in your case.
I: It is not about system or not system it is about that a) I have won and b) I have fulfilled the terms and conditions. Of course I look when I take a bonus, what is the best way to win with it. That's what it's all about when you play in a casino. And this surely is a system.
Nathan: As I said, the decision has been made.
(...)

Well, after the chat, 8 days ago I wrote an email to 21Grand management, but didn't get a response.
Do you think there's still a chance that I will see my winnings? I really feel cheated, as I didn't do anything wrong and I am sure the casino would have just kept my deposit should I have lost. A lose/lose situation for a player.

Even if any Rival casino gave me a 1000 percent bonus with no wagering requirments I woudn't put one cent in any of them not one. i've played them with horrible results ,had one Rival casino that after i lost my money ,right away they wouldnt answer online chat or answer my calls. And from seeing all sorts of problems about Rivasl casinos on casinmeister ,casinman and other sites my personal opinion is they all should be black listed everywhere to put pressure on Rival software Company it self to take some responsibility to who they sell there software too. But thats just my opinion.

 

[TopAff]

I will never deposit to this casino.

 

[fahrradfloh]

Still nothing. The nice guy is still on his annual "vacation" (already about two months) and the other one just doesn't respond. The money has been put back into my account but no payment.

 

[maxd]

Just a reminder that we did post this Warning back in November: SupremePlay / 21Grand Casino : stalling, slo-pay, ignored issues.

In spite of the "new blood" argument we've seen nothing really change so the Warning stands and states our current position against these guys.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Still nothing. The nice guy is still on his annual "vacation" (already about two months) and the other one just doesn't respond. The money has been put back into my account but no payment.

Not confiscated then.

Contact support, and ask exactly what wagering needs to be done in order to release your money. Make sure to get this in writing, and NOT over the phone.

Complete the quest, and then ASK AGAIN.

Repeat the process until such time as you are told in writing that you have completed WR, and then withdraw.

Try to go a little over the quoted WR, and don't try anything "clever".

This should back them right into a corner, since if they completely change their story to again deny the withdrawal, it will be clear evidence that they are fully rogue, and not merely "not recommended". Since ALL Rival white labels are run by Rival themselves when it comes to support, payments, and "security", the whole damn lot can enter Rogue City as well.

If they DO pay, take the money and RUN - NEVER go near a Rival casino again, unless they are FULLY independent, and you have had prior approval of documentation, and eligibilty for offers seen in the lobby, again, get this in writing.

 

[sparkz]

I had troubles there too back in the day.

I cant remember what the main issue was but it eventually got resolved.

Then there was the problem.... I actually won a nice chunk.


I cant remember how much exactly it was but it must of been around, if not over the $1000 mark.


Cashed out and it instantly refused. Tried a lower sum ($200) and it went to cashout pending.


Tried another withdraw (thought I could try cashing it all out in $200 amounts each time) but another withdraw wouldnt work.

Spoke to support they claimed no limits were on my account. They told me to email technical support.... I did.

But then I got a reply saying nothing was limited on my account.

I ended up reversing and playing to see if I could make it to a considerable sum (I didnt want to wait more than 5 weeks to get my $1000 which would of been the case had I only been able to withdraw $200 each time) but lost it all.

That was 1 of the final straws for me ever playing at a rival again

 

[fahrradfloh]

Thanky, vinylweatherman. Maybe it is easier than I thought. Finally they could give me an answer today:

Me: Vanessa, can you please tell me what is necesarry to process my withdrawal?

Vanessa: Un instant je vous prie, je vérifie votre compte.

Vanessa: One moment please, as I look into your account.

Me: Ok

Vanessa: you need to send the faxback

Vanessa: by email

Vanessa: with all the docs

Well, I had send the faxback in September 2010 but I'm happy to send it again. Will update this thread should the be any news.

 

[fahrradfloh]

Unbelievable, but I really got paid today after sending in the faxback and my docs for a 2nd time. Thanks to all of you for your help and nice words

 

[Lucky Loser]

I used to play at 21 Grand but stopped after reading various "no pay" complaints.

Never will I play at this casino group again. Their name is MUD to me and I hope they go broke as all trust has been lost.

 

[De Beuker]

Unbelievable, but I really got paid today after sending in the faxback and my docs for a 2nd time. Thanks to all of you for your help and nice words

Glad you got paid in the end!

So it only took them 9 months of 'looking into it'?