Winward Casino - matter that is no longer wanted or needed

[apwd]

There is no way to paint a rosy picture for this "casino".

The methods they will employ in an effort to make sure you go unpaid know no limits.

Let me begin by stating their withdrawal policy is straight from the Middle Ages, but once you actually get to the point where you are ready to withdraw, then you see the whole beauty of their system. As many of you know, they only process withdrawals on Monday. Apparently their "financial team" is not capable of working more than 1 day per week. This should immediately be recognized as a red flag, as there are no other casinos I have ever dealt with that have a system that even closely resembles this. If they deny your withdrawal request then you must wait until the next Monday before they will give you another try at it.

Then they will employ a litany of excuses to deny any request, and they will be as obscure as possible in letting you know what needs to be done to actually get money from them. First they will tell you they do not have your documents even after you sent them days before. Then they will tell you that you didn't wager enough to meet the bonus requirements (amazing because no bonus was actually given). Then after 4 weeks of canceled withdrawals they will finally tell you the most absurd thing ever dreamed up by an online casino: You must wager 20 times your deposit even if you did not receive a bonus.

It is a farce that this place calls itself a casino. Winward is a scam dressed in casino clothing.

 

[LaurieJim]

are they in with breakaway casino?

 

[TDTAT]

are they in with breakaway casino?

They are with Slots Village I believe.

 

[LaurieJim]

There is no way to paint a rosy picture for this "casino".

The methods they will employ in an effort to make sure you go unpaid know no limits.

Let me begin by stating their withdrawal policy is straight from the Middle Ages, but once you actually get to the point where you are ready to withdraw, then you see the whole beauty of their system. As many of you know, they only process withdrawals on Monday. Apparently their "financial team" is not capable of working more than 1 day per week. This should immediately be recognized as a red flag, as there are no other casinos I have ever dealt with that have a system that even closely resembles this. If they deny your withdrawal request then you must wait until the next Monday before they will give you another try at it.

Then they will employ a litany of excuses to deny any request, and they will be as obscure as possible in letting you know what needs to be done to actually get money from them. First they will tell you they do not have your documents even after you sent them days before. Then they will tell you that you didn't wager enough to meet the bonus requirements (amazing because no bonus was actually given). Then after 4 weeks of canceled withdrawals they will finally tell you the most absurd thing ever dreamed up by an online casino: You must wager 20 times your deposit even if you did not receive a bonus.

It is a farce that this place calls itself a casino. Winward is a scam dressed in casino clothing.

........so if you do not take a bonus they make you wager your money 20 timesthat sucks, note to self: stay away from this casino

 

[TDTAT]

I made this group "not recommended" at my site after reading
some complaints about a year ago here at Casino Meister if I remember correctly.. and their terms were silly

They may even be on CM's crap list, I am not sure.

 

[winbig]

They're not on the Rogue list nor the not recommended list...

Why!?!?!?


FWIW, I've seen alot of casinos apply a 1x WR to all deposits, which is reasonable, but 20x?

 

[Shocked]

FWIW, I've seen alot of casinos apply a 1x WR to all deposits, which is reasonable, but 20x?

Have to say, but I don't think putting any requirements on a simple deposit is reasonable in the slightest. It's bad enough that we have to jump through hoops to get some of the reputable casinos to pay out (i.e. giving them enough information to commit identity theft easily) when they make it so very easy to give them money..but a WR on a straight deposit?!? If I heard that from a Casino I'd deposited at, they wouldn't be getting a penny from me in the future.

 

[winbig]

Have to say, but I don't think putting any requirements on a simple deposit is reasonable in the slightest. It's bad enough that we have to jump through hoops to get some of the reputable casinos to pay out (i.e. giving them enough information to commit identity theft easily) when they make it so very easy to give them money..but a WR on a straight deposit?!? If I heard that from a Casino I'd deposited at, they wouldn't be getting a penny from me in the future.

I have to respectively disagree...there's legit reasons for having a 1x turnover on any deposit without a bonus attached to it.


Some respected casinos have this 1x rule in place to cover their ass. Why should they be a clearing house for money laundering?

 

[apwd]

I have no problem at all with wagering my deposit in full. Obviously anybody who legitimately wants to gamble at a casino is going to put their money in play at least 1 time. In my particular case I received no bonus and I withdrew considerably more money than I deposited after wagering considerably more than my deposit. It is apparent to me that they simply want to go to every extreme to make sure that nobody withdraws. The policies of this company are by far worse than any other casino not currently considered "rogue".

When I requested in writing that I receive no bonuses, this was their response...

Please note that we would like to ask you why is it that you want to request
such a thing, since the bonus is a service we offer for our players to
further enjoy our site.​

It makes me laugh every time I see it..."further enjoy our site"...LOLOLOL.

 

[maxd]

FWIW, the so-call "rep", MissMD, has been AWOL (both PM and email) for several weeks now. That don't look so good.

See also "Winward Casino complaint".

 

[RobWin]

They're not on the Rogue list nor the not recommended list...

Why!?!?!?

FWIW, I've seen alot of casinos apply a 1x WR to all deposits, which is reasonable, but 20x?

I'm curious about why they are also not on the Rogue List too...Bryan ??

 

[maxd]

To be truthful guys that's probably my fault. I've been trying to leverage the early progress (?!?) we had into some real action without going down the Rogue path. In other words Bryan was more or less letting me run with the ball on this one ... and I'm still running, for better or worse.

That said it is safe to say that it's time for a "Warning" on this one ... though I do see that they were "rogued" about a year ago. Bit before my time that.

 

[footdr]

WINWARD CHAT-THIS IS RICH!

I do not want to have to wager my deposit 30 times when no bonus is involved. If I deposit and hit a large payout right away why should I have to risk losing my winnings by being forced to continue playing.

That immediately increases the odds of a player losing before they even start playing.

And Alex is correct(see chat below) I requested no bonuses but the last time I deposited at Winward they ignored that request and still applied a bonus and wouldn't deduct it from my account even though I hadn't started playing my deposit.

info: All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly. Or feel free to open a help desk ticket for timely assistance.
info: You are now chatting with 'Alex'
Alex: Welcome to Live Support, My name is Alex, How may I be of assistance to you?
Hi, if I deposit 50.00
with no bonus.
is there wagering requirements
Alex: The bonus can't be forfeit.
Alex: It will always be applied into your account.
what bonus
Alex: The deposit bonus according to the newsletter.
ah
: now I remember why I stopped playing here
: I don't like bonuses.
Thanks anyway
Alex:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Alex: I have checked your account and it seems that you have asked to not have bonuses.
Alex: You will have to meet the wagering requirements 30 times your deposit amouint.
:Ah, yes I remember but wagering requirements on your own money is not the norm. Thanks for your time

I recieved a newsletter from Winward and had forgot why I stopped playing there after a couple of times depositing.

 

[BingoT]

Malci came back and she will do her best to get all the issues looked at.

oh dear... sorry guys...
I was away on a business trip in Europe for the last 3 weeks...
will catch up quickly.. I landed yesterday and I'm at my office now I still have loads to catch up on... pls give me couple of days all will be solved
Cheers, Malci

 

[maxd]

Sorry to say it BT, but here we are three weeks later and we're back in the same situation again: she's AWOL, the issues are unresolved and we're left looking foolish for giving her the benefit of the doubt.

This situation had better get cleaned up real soon or Malci and Winward are going to end up getting tattooed with the "Rogue" stamp.

 

[RobWin]

I do not want to have to wager my deposit 30 times when no bonus is involved. If I deposit and hit a large payout right away why should I have to risk losing my winnings by being forced to continue playing.

That immediately increases the odds of a player losing before they even start playing.

And Alex is correct(see chat below) I requested no bonuses but the last time I deposited at Winward they ignored that request and still applied a bonus and wouldn't deduct it from my account even though I hadn't started playing my deposit.

info: All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly. Or feel free to open a help desk ticket for timely assistance.
info: You are now chatting with 'Alex'
Alex: Welcome to Live Support, My name is Alex, How may I be of assistance to you?
Hi, if I deposit 50.00
with no bonus.
is there wagering requirements
Alex: The bonus can't be forfeit.
Alex: It will always be applied into your account.
what bonus
Alex: The deposit bonus according to the newsletter.
ah
: now I remember why I stopped playing here
: I don't like bonuses.
Thanks anyway
Alex:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Alex: I have checked your account and it seems that you have asked to not have bonuses.
Alex: You will have to meet the wagering requirements 30 times your deposit amouint.:Ah, yes I remember but wagering requirements on your own money is not the norm. Thanks for your time

I recieved a newsletter from Winward and had forgot why I stopped playing there after a couple of times depositing.

Well, lets try and see if Monica can figure this mess out now since MissMD never did want to respond here...but maybe she will respond now that Max has changed the thread title to a more pleasing one for her...

 

[RobWin]

Your sure Wrong because i'll wait for some reply from that casino.
I don't like drama before the show starts.
This will be my last until I hear more from MD or Monica
I have better places to talk about

Lets see how long the wait will be here now before MD or Monica comes in here to answer to this thread now that Max has changed the title on "28th March 2008, 07:36 PM"...clocks ticking...and as far as the drama goes there's plenty of that in this thread with the 30X Wager requirement that Winward wants to impose on Deposits Only !!!

Maybe you could alert them to this thread BT...since they apparently respond so fast for you...

 

[RGiants-Mo]

Hi there everyone this is Monica. I am investigating this issue further to finally get to the bottom of it. I will get back to you with a response as soon as possible. thank you for your patience! -M-

 

[RobWin]

Hi there everyone this is Monica. I am investigating this issue further to finally get to the bottom of it. I will get back to you with a response as soon as possible. thank you for your patience! -M-

World Record Speed there Monica !! ,,, and Welcome to the Forum

 

[maxd]

Hi there everyone this is Monica. I am investigating this issue further to finally get to the bottom of it. I will get back to you with a response as soon as possible. thank you for your patience! -M-

Hi Monica, welcome aboard. Thanks for jumping in to see this one through. It's been sitting around for a while now and I for one would very much like to see it put to rest.

 

[BingoT]

Hi Monica Thanks for being a part of all this.
And hope we can put an end to all this stuff.
Welcome to the forum
Tom

 

[RGiants-Mo]

Hi there!

Thank you for changing the title of the forum and taking this to a professional level MissM and I really appreciate it!

Here is the reply to the 30 X wagering issue which in fact is not 30 but 24. Management tells me that this wagering rule applies to both: the deposit and bonus. That is to say, you have to play 12 times your deposit and 12 times your bonus to be able to place a cash out request.

Our site and customer service reps. tell players up front about this rule to avoid any misunderstanding. (Before depositing or subscribing to any sites always make sure to read the whole site and be aware of the rules, internet commandment #1) If there is something you didnt get or is not clear enough ALL our sites provide 24/7 support via email, help desk ticket, live chat and 1-800. If you believe the customer support rep. is not being helpful there is always a supervisor around who you can talk to.

Is there any possibility to make an exception? Unfortunately, NO exceptions can be made Whether or not the bonus is credited to the account the player will have to meet the wager requirements before submitting a cash out request. Maybe in a near future this rule can be modified to please those players who do not want to receive the bonus but in the mean time Winward will continue to abide by it.

Hope this info is of help

Monica

 

[winbig]

Hi there!

Thank you for changing the title of the forum and taking this to a professional level MissM and I really appreciate it!

Here is the reply to the 30 X wagering issue… which in fact is not 30 but 24. Management tells me that this wagering rule applies to both: the deposit and bonus. That is to say, you have to play 12 times your deposit and 12 times your bonus to be able to place a cash out request.

The issue here is deposits WITHOUT bonuses attached

Thanks...

edit:

Is there any possibility to make an exception? Unfortunately, NO exceptions can be made… Whether or not the bonus is credited to the account the player will have to meet the wager requirements before submitting a cash out request. Maybe in a near future this rule can be modified to please those players who do not want to receive the bonus but in the mean time Winward will continue to abide by it.

That statement is in itself enough reason for a casino to be rogued. Who has ever heard of WR being applied to an account even if a bonus wasn't credited?

Maybe in a near future this rule can be modified to please those players who do not want to receive the bonus but in the mean time Winward will continue to abide by it.

Be sure to let us know if this rule is ever changed. Anyone reading this thread with any common sense and isn't a bonus hunter won't be playing there any time soon.

 

[RGiants-Mo]

Winbig...

As the above post says...

NO exceptions can be made Whether or not the bonus is credited to the account the player will have to meet the wager requirements before submitting a cash out request. Maybe in a near future this rule can be modified to please those players who do not want to receive the bonus but in the mean time Winward will continue to abide by it.

-M-

 

[winbig]

Winbig...

As the above post says...

NO exceptions can be made… Whether or not the bonus is credited to the account the player will have to meet the wager requirements before submitting a cash out request. Maybe in a near future this rule can be modified to please those players who do not want to receive the bonus but in the mean time Winward will continue to abide by it.

-M-

Sorry, I had a late edit. Perhaps you missed it....check it out again..thanks

Rest assured I think you're the only casino out there that has a WR on deposits without bonuses attached. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[jetset]

First time I've encountered this, and I would think it must lose these guys a lot of business.

 

[RobWin]

Winbig...

As the above post says...

NO exceptions can be made Whether or not the bonus is credited to the account the player will have to meet the wager requirements before submitting a cash out request. Maybe in a near future this rule can be modified to please those players who do not want to receive the bonus but in the mean time Winward will continue to abide by it.

-M-

Monica, I'm just curious, who exactly (name please) was the Brainiac over at Winward that came up with this brilliant term ??

One more question please...you say "NO exceptions can be made"...what about the original person above that initially came up with this bogus term, I'm sure he or she could also de-implement this term as they were the one that originally implemented it...right ??

 

[winbig]

First time I've encountered this, and I would think it must lose these guys a lot of business.

Could you see this happening at a B&M casino?

Imagine sitting down at a $10 blackjack table with $1000, and losing 6 hands straight....you get up to leave because obviously the table is ice cold, but the pit boss stops you and says "Sorry sir/ma'am, you need to wager another $23,940 before you can leave (or go broke)."

This is essentially what Winward is doing.

 

[maxd]

Winbig...

As the above post says...

NO exceptions can be made… Whether or not the bonus is credited to the account the player will have to meet the wager requirements before submitting a cash out request. Maybe in a near future this rule can be modified to please those players who do not want to receive the bonus but in the mean time Winward will continue to abide by it.

-M-

Monica, I think players should have a specific email address they can write to to protest this ... ahem, unusual policy.

Just to recap: players are bound by Winwards 30x playthrough requirement the instant they deposit money to the casino, irrespective of any and all bonus offers.

Can you provide us with that email address?

 

[kakata]

Why do we keep wasting time?

 

[maxd]

Why do we keep wasting time?

Sorry?

I would have thought that since part of the issue at hand was directly related to playthrough requirements -- the OP said: "they will tell you that you didn't wager enough to meet the bonus requirements" -- that we were still very much on topic here.

What specifically were you referring to re: "wasting time"?

 

[kakata]

Sorry Max.
I meant , why do we keep wasting time with this casino who has already proved not to care at all about theyr customers?

 

[maxd]

Ah yes, I see why you might feel this way. I keep hoping that the Winward people will take people's concerns more seriously but ... well, let's just say that the continued lack of response is not comforting.

 

[RGiants-Mo]

Monica, I think players should have a specific email address they can write to to protest this ... ahem, unusual policy.

Just to recap: players are bound by Winwards 30x playthrough requirement the instant they deposit money to the casino, irrespective of any and all bonus offers.

Can you provide us with that email address?

Hi guys! I know this has caused quite of a fuss but this rule has been on effect for quite a while now. In spite of some of you consider it unfair, some other people believe it is reasonable and continue playing with us. It is impossible for us to please everybody but we do our best to spoil our customers whenever we can do so...

As per Max suggestion I am providing you with an email address: [email protected] However, they might give you the same answer I gave you since they will speak to the same people I spoke to. If you prefer you can always contact me and I will try to find a prompt solution to your issue.

-Monica-

 

[winbig]

Hi guys! I know this has caused quite of a fuss but this rule has been on effect for quite a while now. In spite of some of you consider it unfair, some other people believe it is reasonable and continue playing with us. It is impossible for us to please everybody but we do our best to “spoil” our customers whenever we can do so...

As per Max suggestion I am providing you with an email address: [email protected] However, they might give you the same answer I gave you since they will speak to the same people I spoke to. If you prefer you can always contact me and I will try to find a prompt solution to your issue.

-Monica-

Sorry, but I must be frank here.

You're not spoiling your customers by making them take bonuses even if they ask not to get one, nor by making them wager their own money 24x even without a bonus. If this was common practice among all online casinos, gambling online would be doomed.

You misinterpreted Max's intentions for the email address. It was so players could let you guys know that this rule needs to be changed, and not simply to try and get another answer to the same question.

side note: Are there restricted games as well if a player doesn't take a bonus?

 

[uungy]

.

As per Max suggestion I am providing you with an email address: [email protected] However, they might give you the same answer I gave you since they will speak to the same people I spoke to. If you prefer you can always contact me and I will try to find a prompt solution to your issue.

This could probably be rated as the worst response a casino can give on an online forum.

The email address is the standard email address, which I am sure Max could have taken from your website.

I think more of a personal email would be more appropriate, which isn't forwarded to [email protected] , but actually read by someone allocated to this

 

[maxd]

As per Max suggestion I am providing you with an email address: [email protected] However, they might give you the same answer I gave you since they will speak to the same people I spoke to. If you prefer you can always contact me and I will try to find a prompt solution to your issue.

Sorry Monica, as the others have guessed a generic support email addy is not what I had in mind.

However old this policy may be it's a pretty beastly one (IMHO) and I would have thought that someone in the chain of command would have been willing to step forward and take responsibility for player concerns about it.

 

[kakata]

Told you guys.......dont waste your time....
There is no worse deaf , who does not want to ear....

 

[RGiants-Mo]

Maybe I did not express myself correctly The email I provided you with is customers service indeed. You can always use that specific email address to complaint directly. If it is needed our CSRs will take your complaint or question to a supervisor or even management. If your questions or complaints are not properly addressed, you can always contact me and I will be more than glad to investigate further and look for a solution to your issue.

In this special case, I have spoken to management and the rule cannot be changed. Our site and customer service representatives are very upfront about it. The rule is not in fine print either it is clearly stated in the promotions section under Maximum Level of Play. So any player can read it, analyze it and proceed accordingly

-Monica-

 

[uungy]

Maybe I did not express myself correctly The email I provided you with is customers service indeed. You can always use that specific email address to complaint directly. If it is needed our CSRs will take your complaint or question to a supervisor or even management. If your questions or complaints are not properly addressed, you can always contact me and I will be more than glad to investigate further and look for a solution to your issue.

In this special case, I have spoken to management and the rule cannot be changed. Our site and customer service representatives are very upfront about it. The rule is not in fine print either it is clearly stated in the promotions section under Maximum Level of Play. So any player can read it, analyze it and proceed accordingly

-Monica-

You have to remember, while you are running a company, "players" want entertainment. You dont seem to change a thing or bend a little to customers needs.

This statement "and the rule cannot be changed" has been used a few times, and I really think that it needs rethinking, for people to want to enjoy entertainment , and not constatntly beaten rround the bush.

If it is needed our CSRs will take your complaint or question to a supervisor or even management

That means, nothing will, which is the reason why a personal address was requested

 

[winbig]

Maybe I did not express myself correctly… The email I provided you with is customer’s service indeed. You can always use that specific email address to complaint directly. If it is needed our CSR’s will take your complaint or question to a supervisor or even management. If your questions or complaints are not properly addressed, you can always contact me and I will be more than glad to investigate further and look for a solution to your issue.

In this special case, I have spoken to management and the rule cannot be changed. Our site and customer service representatives are very upfront about it. The rule is not in fine print either it is clearly stated in the promotions section under Maximum Level of Play. So any player can read it, analyze it and proceed accordingly

-Monica-

Could you provide a link where it states that a player HAS wager nX their deposit in order to withdrawal, even if they don't get a bonus?

Also, what happens if a player doesn't accept a bonus, wins, but doesn't meet the WR for the bonus never credited? Does Winward confiscate their winnings, even though they never received nor played with any house money?


Also, Winward might want to omit this paragraph under "Fair Play":

Winward Casino's financial statements and game payouts adhere to the strictest accounting standards. We are continuously audited by a major accounting firm and our average casino game payouts are posted online each month.

The link points to a page that shows payout percentages from 1 year ago.

 

[RGiants-Mo]

I believe we are deviating from the original topic here. Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with a link that states that a player HAS to wager nX their deposit in order to withdrawal, even if they don't get a bonus? because such thing does not exist at Winward. As I told you before, every player that makes a deposit will always receive a bonus.

I dont want you to get me wrong but at Wiwnard we follow a specific hierarchy when it comes to problem solving, that is why first the issue goes to support, then to a supervisor and finally to a manager. We DO appreciate your comments and concerns and we DO take them into account to improve our service.

-Monica-

 

[winbig]

I believe we are deviating from the original topic here. Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with “a link that states that a player HAS to wager nX their deposit in order to withdrawal, even if they don't get a bonus?” because such thing does not exist at Winward. As I told you before, every player that makes a deposit will always receive a bonus.

But, as you said in previous posts, a player is tied to wagering requirements even if they ask for the bonus to be removed from their account....which in turn ties them into wagering nX their own money even without the bonus attached.

I guess the bottom line here is:

Why is Winward forcing a player to take a bonus even if they DON'T want one?

edit: Can you please address the year old audits? Thanks!

 

[Corey1972]

RGiants-Mo, I-Gaming Industry Representative:

Guess what? After reading this thread, I have decided that your casino is lame, and I will never play there again ( I had played in the past ). I will tell everyone I know who gambles, not to play at your casino. Your bad English grammar and dismissive attitude is also not conducive to inspiring player confidence.

 

[lojo]

Jan stry.. or his new should come here and explain this. I was appalled by the way the representatives of WinWard were treated. You think it's funny Max to change ' Garbage' to ' Matter that is no longer needed'? I don't.

Max, I would like you to meet jan, if you know him tell me to stfu. But I have to tell you, growing pains aside, you handled this situation awefully in my opinion.

Cool, I dig it, give us an email where players can register their likes. dig it. You fucked up dude. Make all parlay rogue or treat operators with respect, please.. they are trying and you nor Bryan helped them in that respect here... honestly, I can forgive you..can they? and who gives a bloody? They're just a software with a bad past trying to be right on.
As far as I'm concerned they were right on, whether we like the terms or not.

Would I drop a dollar there? hell NO but they are there for us, dig it?

 

[lojo]

Burn the house down if you don't agree.

 

[RobWin]

Jan stry.. or his new should come here and explain this.

Lo, they have been given three months now to come here and address this intelligently and still have not managed to do that, so what's the point ??

I was appalled by the way the representatives of WinWard were treated. You think it's funny Max to change ' Garbage' to ' Matter that is no longer needed'? I don't.

I agree with you there Lo, it should have been left titled "Garbage" but MissMD thought that title was a little too sensitive to allow her "above the rest of us self" to bother to come in here and address the concerns until Max finally did agree to change the title just for her and then she sent Monica in here to deal with it !!

Max, I would like you to meet jan, if you know him tell me to stfu. But I have to tell you, growing pains aside, you handled this situation awefully in my opinion.

So if this Jan guy is so great, then where the hell has he been hiding during all of these Winward threads ??

Cool, I dig it, give us an email where players can register their likes. dig it.

Yea, I agree...that is exactly what Max was asking for and Monica gives this lame ass email to support like we couldn't find that one on our own...

You fucked up dude. Make all parlay rogue or treat operators with respect, please.. they are trying and you nor Bryan helped them in that respect here... honestly, I can forgive you..can they?

If I were Bryan or Max I wouldn't really give a shit whether they forgave me or not...if this is the best we can expect from online casinos then the whole damn bunch of them needs to be Rogued, and as of right now Bryan hasn't even got them listed on any list of Rogued or Not Recommended..

and who gives a bloody?

Well, I for one did give a bloody shit because I enjoyed playing there until all of these roguish terms were further revealed to me and I also discovered some of them on my own also and if you visit Winwards web site you will find that they don't even have a General T's & C's page to be found...what the hell is that about ??

They're just a software with a bad past trying to be right on.

They are not trying to damn hard to be right on IMO by the way they have been AWOL from this thread for so long and also based on their other responses in the other Winward threads here...

As far as I'm concerned they were right on, whether we like the terms or not.

Right on in what regard ??

Would I drop a dollar there? hell NO but they are there for us, dig it?

Yea they are there for us but so are all the other Rogues in this business too !!

 

[lojo]

I thought i was talking to max here, but it will be a good exercise any way Don't you ever do that again, okay, pal?

Me thinkin...

 

[lojo]

Might take a couple of days with the blind side... yip. I'm talking to Max D and I don't like the way he treated Winward... how do you spell period?

 

[lojo]

Max

I think you owe the forum an apology 'matter no longer needed'. I think you do.