Winward Casino complaint

Sue4

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Location
Kalgoorlie
Hi

This is my first post on the forum. Unfortunately it's not a good one!

I played at Winward Casino over a month ago now. They offered a bonus, which was put into my account on depositing. I had a great time here, and ended up winning $1400 profit. They did email me asking for ID documents which I emailed back to them. Then they emailed me back stating that my original deposit will be refunded back to me, and no winnings will be paid. I didn't understand at all, so asked them if they could explain a little better. I haven't played many casinos, and had never had this experience. They said that management didn't have to offer an explanation, end of story!! I was obviously very disappointed, so started researching the internet for other stories.

I came across this website, and saw that you could Pitch a Bitch. I did this, but unfortunately haven't heard back from anyone. I have emailed back a few times now, but nothing. I waited and waited, but I thought I may take up the opportunity of posting on the forum, for everyones feedback.

Also, Winward haven't paid me my original $500 back yet. I have emailed them, but the emails bounce back to me. Got onto livechat before, and they said they are not sure what's wrong. They can't help me, only the accounts and support section, but their contact details are not working! This is very frustrating.

I know it is the holiday season, but I just need to hear back from someone. It has been going on for over 6 weeks now, with no response from anyone.

Please help!
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
Confiscating winnings is not a big surprise, but they should have returned the deposit by now.

There is a warning on this site about Winward at https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

On my site, I state:
"Winward has a poor reputation among the online gambling community and a high risk of problems...

Winward has an odd rule of only processing cashouts on Monday. You can submit your withdrawal any day. Winward will not process it until the following Monday. You are required to fax/email ID verification prior to cashout. Some players have had delays in cashouts. Winward has seemingly made excuses to delay cashouts such as needing to resend Neteller numbers. A good number of other players have reported a variety of other problems, a good portion of which relate to their birthday bonus. As stated above, some players have had winnings removed due to "management decision." The payment delays, rule changes, and other issues some have experienced are troubling. Support is generally poor and in some cases not knowledgeable about the casino's rules. Emails may go unanswered, so I recommend live or phone support over email.

The Winward T&C states, "Players who attempt to cash out any winnings prior to having met the wagering requirements will have the bonus canceled and the withdrawal request declined, this process cannot be undone." Note that this statement seems to apply to both winnings and your initial deposit. Players have reported being unable to withdraw their deposit prior to beginning the wagering. Instead the bonus is removed and withdrawal request denied. "
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Just from personal curiousity I'll be paying close attention to this one as I had great hopes for Winward when their former GM was the Rep here and was 'cleaning ship'. He is now just a 'consultant' for the company and they may have reverted to the rogue-ways they were shamed here for in the past. I hope not.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I had the good fortune to get paid from the new player bonus, but with my final withdrawal of a mere $25 or so they just ignored all E-mails for over a year. (This was SOME YEARS ago).
When a "rep" came here, working through Jetset, they finally closed the case and paid the remaining $25. Since then, it seems they use this large $500 to $1000 bonus to lure the suckers in, but should you win they find ways of only returning the deposit. The problems seemed to spread to their bingo operations, and this lead to them being dumped into the rogue pit.
Since then, each thread about Winward has been a complaint.

Management Decision is not good enough a reason to not pay, a breach of terms has to occur before this kind of action is even considered. This leads me to think they are unable to justify the decision, other than you having won from the bonus, whereas it is designed to make winning impossible, therefore, you must have cheated.
 

Sue4

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Location
Kalgoorlie
Well this doesn't sound good at all for me. They still haven't paid my original $500 deposit back so I really don't know what to do. This is obviously stealing, so how should I report this?? I have contacted everyone to do with that casino - their affiliate manager and their software provider, but no one will get back to me. I really need to get this money back.

Maxd, have you heard anything back yet?

Thanks
 

MissMD

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Location
Romania/Costa Rica/UK
Hi Sue4,

I'm from Winward Group, pls PM or email me; malci (at) revenuegiants.com with your account details.

I'll help on this issue.

Cheers, Malci
 

Sue4

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Location
Kalgoorlie
Well, thanks MissMD for making my original deposit of $500 go back into my Neteller account. It's a real shame I missed out on my big winnings.

I will never be playing there again, and recommend everyone else to stay away!

Thanks for everyones help and feedback.

Sue4
 

bb28

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Location
US
Well, thanks MissMD for making my original deposit of $500 go back into my Neteller account. It's a real shame I missed out on my big winnings.

I will never be playing there again, and recommend everyone else to stay away!

Thanks for everyones help and feedback.

Sue4

Well that sucks.....big time! I'm sorry that happened.

Did they say why? Maybe you should follow up with Max on the PAB and see if anything else can be done.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
If you have your deposit back, you have nothing to lose by telling us the whole story. I just hate these threads that leave the community dangling.

I really want to know what happened, and I really want you to tell us your side of the story so Winward can respond.

Please?
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Hi Sue4, I still haven't heard anything from Winward so I'm doing a little follow-up work here:

When did you submit your PAB?

Where you at any time given information (from the casino) as to what the problem was and/or why your winnings were not paid?

I ask because WinWard used to be on the "not recommended" list here for pretty much exactly the problems you are having. If they're up to old tricks again then perhaps re-listing them will be necessary.
 

NextToYou

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Location
Europe
I ask because WinWard used to be on the "not recommended" list here for pretty much exactly the problems you are having. If they're up to old tricks again then perhaps re-listing them will be necessary.

I think they never stopped using these "tricks". I have been reading similar player reports from Winward all the time during past months. Some players just doesnt know about casinomeister, so they dont come here to complain.
 

Sue4

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Location
Kalgoorlie
Hello, a long post, but this is the whole story.....

Maxd - I issued my PAB on 24th November 2007. I was sent an email with all my info in it.

I have pasted below what I explained on the PAB. Below that, is what they wrote to me in emails.

I signed up with this casino a couple of weeks ago, and played blackjack over a few days. I know some casinos dont allow blackjack to be played when they offer a bonus, but this casino allowed it with a higher wagering requirement. I had won 1412 profit at this casino, so was very happy. Before I made a withdrawal, I got onto livechat to make sure it was okay to do this. He said yes, I was allowed to withdrawal now. I requested a withdrawal, and a couple of days later, the casino emailed asking for ID documents. I gladly emailed them to the accounts department. A couple of days again later, they said they had received the files and filed them accordingly, but per management decision my account had been disabled, and my original deposit will be refunded back. There was no explanation in the email at all. I was very confused, so asked them why they had done this, after I had won a big profit. They said there had been fraudelent games played I only played blackjack, which was allowed, and the casino management doesnt have to give explanations. I told them I was very disappointed with their professionalism and service, and would be taking this further until my winnings had been paid. I havent heard back from them after that, and that was yesterday. I have also emailed their affilite manager, Revenue Giants, to see what they can do. I havent heard back from them either.

This was one of the emails sent to me regarding why I hadn't been paid, after me emailing them asking why I hadn't received my winning withdrawal yet:

Dear Sue,

Thank you for contacting us!

You will be receiving your money through Western Union, you account has been closed because Management did an investigation in your account and found some fraudulent games.

For further assistance so not hesitate contacting us back anytime.

Best Regards,
Andrew,
CSR WinwardCasino


I honestly only played blackjack, and that is all. They do allow this game, but are now saying it is obviously fraudelent. This is what I wrote back to the email above:

Hi Andrew

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I don't understand when you say fraudelent games. I played blackjack, but I thought that was okay? So will you be paying out my winnings? And how do you mean through Western Union?

Thanks
Sue Gianni


And this is what he responded with:

Dear Sue,

Thank you for contacting us!

Unfortunately when Management takes a decision of this matter they do not give explanations, they just checked there seems to be fraudulent games so we will send your deposit back to your Neteller account and the account will be permanently closed.

I am so sorry but there is nothing we can do.

For further assistance so not hesitate contacting us back anytime.

Best Regards,
Andrew,
CSR WinwardCasino


And after those emails above, I got onto livechat, but they couldn't do anything. Then after that, I kept emailing Winward support and accounting, but the emails bounced back for some reason. Meanwhile, I had got onto this site, and did a PAB. Then after awhile, I got onto the forum, and it has just gone on from there.

So that is the whole story. It may seem that something is missing, but Winward gave no explanation, end of story!! I am very disappointed still, but glad for all your feedback and comments, and help.
 

Sue4

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Location
Kalgoorlie
Hi everyone

Well, doesn't look like I will be paid my $1442 in winnings at Winward. Sounds like they have thrown my account in the bin! From the posts on here about this subject, it sounds like they are a very suss casino. Are you (casinomeister) able to put them on your blacklist of casinos, and warn people away?
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Hi everyone

Well, doesn't look like I will be paid my $1442 in winnings at Winward. Sounds like they have thrown my account in the bin! From the posts on here about this subject, it sounds like they are a very suss casino. Are you (casinomeister) able to put them on your blacklist of casinos, and warn people away?


Has Max actually given you a result, or... ??? The thread is still marked [In Progress] as of your post. Hope it's just frustration on your part and there is still hope for your winnings to be paid.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
It is clear they have used an "FU Clause" on you. Although Blackjack is allowed, you played, it seems, ONLY Blackjack. This means they consider it likely you will never come back, and have decided not to pay the winnings. This is exactly what would be expected of a rogue operation. If they didn't want players to play Blackjack, they should have excluded it in the terms and conditions, as do the majority of casinos.

The "fraudulent games" excuse is complete bullshite, all games are handled by their own software, the fact that you won has nothing to do with your play, but the fact that the RNG favoured you in your session. From my experience, such positive streaks are commonplace, as are negative streaks of similar length.

It is likely they are allowing Blackjack as a means to trap and screw over experienced players who play mainly for bonus offers. Players who try to meet WR only on Blackjack are likely to fall into this category, and despite the fact no terms were broken, they are able to spring the FU clause. If they excluded Blackjack, it would be far harder to tell the difference between bonus seekers and "quality" players likely to generate a profit for them in the long term.

Winward have a long history of targeting players who ONLY play Blackjack for WR, yet still allow it as an allowed game. Had you LOST, Winward would most likely have kept your deposit and sent you more promotional offers. If only SOME Blackjack is played, the FU clause is less likely to be sprung, unless the player was from the UK (Winward seem to have a mild paranoia about the UK, not as bad as Playtech though). My account was opened at a time they wanted to trial the UK market again after a country ban. They then decided to ban the UK again - not that I was bothered:D
 

sdaddy

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Arizona
So where do things stand here, maxd? Do you have reason to believe the OP's complaint can still be resolved?
 

Sue4

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Location
Kalgoorlie
Hi

I have a question for MissMD (Malci) about this ongoing post. Can you let everyone know on here if this can be resolved, or do you think we are holding our breath?

Sue4
 

same_old

Dormant account
webmeister
PABaccred
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Location
Australia
It is clear they have used an "FU Clause" on you. Although Blackjack is allowed, you played, it seems, ONLY Blackjack. This means they consider it likely you will never come back, and have decided not to pay the winnings. This is exactly what would be expected of a rogue operation. If they didn't want players to play Blackjack, they should have excluded it in the terms and conditions, as do the majority of casinos.

The "fraudulent games" excuse is complete bullshite, all games are handled by their own software, the fact that you won has nothing to do with your play, but the fact that the RNG favoured you in your session. From my experience, such positive streaks are commonplace, as are negative streaks of similar length.

It is likely they are allowing Blackjack as a means to trap and screw over experienced players who play mainly for bonus offers. Players who try to meet WR only on Blackjack are likely to fall into this category, and despite the fact no terms were broken, they are able to spring the FU clause. If they excluded Blackjack, it would be far harder to tell the difference between bonus seekers and "quality" players likely to generate a profit for them in the long term.

Winward have a long history of targeting players who ONLY play Blackjack for WR, yet still allow it as an allowed game. Had you LOST, Winward would most likely have kept your deposit and sent you more promotional offers. If only SOME Blackjack is played, the FU clause is less likely to be sprung, unless the player was from the UK (Winward seem to have a mild paranoia about the UK, not as bad as Playtech though). My account was opened at a time they wanted to trial the UK market again after a country ban. They then decided to ban the UK again - not that I was bothered:D


You know your shit my friend, I love reading your posts, bloody awesome
 
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