Winward Casino complaint.

took me less than 5 minutes to hit this auto-hold beauty...

I don't even play video poker, and I can see how mind blowing that screenshot is. Once again, Topgame at their finest....I won't use the phrase "cheating software" again, but underhanded, deceptive and sneaky seems appropriate.

This coupled with the 10X max cashout rule on deposits under $249? RUN Forrest, RUN!!
 
If TopGame/Rome can't even be bothered to spellcheck their software..... Imagine how sloppy their software coding must be!!:eek:


Just to mention it even though irrelevant to this thread...
I received a spam from a Topgame casino the other day with the subject line 'MICROtopGAMING, NEW CASINO' or something similar. the MicroGaming part is definitely written as in the subject line.
I opened the mail as I believed it was from a Microgaming Casino that was new and may have a good SUB!
How's that for deceptive marketing?!:eek:
(In my hotmail all the subject lines show up on the left and you click them to open the email to the right of the screen so all I saw was an email for a new MG casino.)

TopGame as a company is entirely ethics free and I wouldn't touch one of their crappy casinos with someone else's bargepole!





Cheers
Gremmy
 
An intelligent person shall understand that a casino software add auto hold only when the system recognize a good hand. It should be clear that TopGame developed an auto hold card to give the player the best possible chance where he can maximize his profit and eventually win. It recommend the cards with most likelihood to win. In fact I am not aware of any casino software who will hold wrong cards to confuse the player and to make him lose on purpose.


Cheers, Malci

really? then please address my screenshot posted in this thread.

the suited ace-king is not held (which I'd rather it didnt) but the shit six is ???

really again? if the software is gonna hold anything...why not just the two wild cards?
 
Revene Giants

Hi,

I would really appreciate more civilized comments please, rather than all those name calling which I don't think is appropriate.

Also, I don't promote Diceland nor Rome, I would really appreciate you keep them out of this thread and refer any issue to them directly from their misspelling or any other issue you may have.

I'm happy to check and solve any concern or issue ONLY with the brands we promote and the software the brands use which are; TopGame and Parlay.

Regarding the Auto-hold I am still investigating it. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong but I understand that there isn't an optimal play for video poker, and each software provider gives an auto-hold as recommendation option. From what I gathered from other software each gives its best recommendation based on highest risk while TopGame gives its best recommendation based on lowest risk. is that correct? I'm still checking this feature and waiting to hear from TopGame what can be done, if you have any further comments on it please let me know.

maphesto, We do not promote those casinos you mentioned on Revenue Giants; "goldencasinoclub, gocasinoclub or crazyslotsclub?"

Gremmyboy, I don't see the relevance of Rome or Microgaming to this thread.

Thank you and have a nice week,

Malci
 
Hi,

I would really appreciate more civilized comments please, rather than all those name calling which I don't think is appropriate.

Also, I don't promote Diceland nor Rome, I would really appreciate you keep them out of this thread and refer any issue to them directly from their misspelling or any other issue you may have.

I'm happy to check and solve any concern or issue ONLY with the brands we promote and the software the brands use which are; TopGame and Parlay.

Regarding the Auto-hold I am still investigating it. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong but I understand that there isn't an optimal play for video poker, and each software provider gives an auto-hold as recommendation option. From what I gathered from other software each gives its best recommendation based on highest risk while TopGame gives its best recommendation based on lowest risk. is that correct? I'm still checking this feature and waiting to hear from TopGame what can be done, if you have any further comments on it please let me know.

maphesto, We do not promote those casinos you mentioned on Revenue Giants; "goldencasinoclub, gocasinoclub or crazyslotsclub?"

Gremmyboy, I don't see the relevance of Rome or Microgaming to this thread.

Thank you and have a nice week,

Malci

Malci -
I agree that the posts should be civil and appropriate. I also appreciate very much that despite some abuse - you are willing to remain a participating member of the forum willing to help us out as Players.

In terms of the Auto hold feature for Video Poker - there is NO Optimal strategy (high risk or low risk) that would recommend keeping a single random card with 2 Deuces in Deuces Wild Poker. In the example that was provided with Auto Hold selecting the 2 Deuces and a Six -- just makes no sense at all.

Diane
 
Malci -
I agree that the posts should be civil and appropriate. I also appreciate very much that despite some abuse - you are willing to remain a participating member of the forum willing to help us out as Players.

In terms of the Auto hold feature for Video Poker - there is NO Optimal strategy (high risk or low risk) that would recommend keeping a single random card with 2 Deuces in Deuces Wild Poker. In the example that was provided with Auto Hold selecting the 2 Deuces and a Six -- just makes no sense at all.

Diane

I have to say that, the fact that you have to point this out to a casino liaison is rather shocking. I would think anyone with even the most rudimentary understanding of poker would immediately see the problem. Does not inspire confidence, AFAIAC.
 
I have to say that, the fact that you have to point this out to a casino liaison is rather shocking. I would think anyone with even the most rudimentary understanding of poker would immediately see the problem. Does not inspire confidence, AFAIAC.

I would disagree.

The fact that she has a business relationship with a Casino, does not mean that she plays the games. And even if she does play some of the games, she may not play poker.

I am an experienced gambler, but I have no clue how to play Sic Bo, Craps, or some of the other games offered in casinos.

Diane
 
In terms of the Auto hold feature for Video Poker - there is NO Optimal strategy (high risk or low risk) that would recommend keeping a single random card with 2 Deuces in Deuces Wild Poker. In the example that was provided with Auto Hold selecting the 2 Deuces and a Six -- just makes no sense at all.

Diane

Juat an aside: I've not checked recently but Cryptologic's video poker used to do this too - might still do for all I know. I vaguely remember querying it and it was to do with "straights" - depending on the other cards drawn there would have been more chance of a straight with a 6 than say, a 3, 4 or 5 (because of the Wild deuces).
 
I would disagree.

The fact that she has a business relationship with a Casino, does not mean that she plays the games. And even if she does play some of the games, she may not play poker.

I am an experienced gambler, but I have no clue how to play Sic Bo, Craps, or some of the other games offered in casinos.

Diane

I suppose you have a point. I recall one time at a B&M casino in NJ - I was playing Texas Bonus Hold Em; someone disputed the dealer's call and took it up with the pit boss; she sided with the dealer, and then made a remark, apropo of nothing, "I don't gamble." Made me chuckle at the time, but perhaps that's why the casino liked employing her?

Anyway, I sill say it's a little surprising, given how popular the game is, but I won't press the point further.
 
Juat an aside: I've not checked recently but Cryptologic's video poker used to do this too - might still do for all I know. I vaguely remember querying it and it was to do with "straights" - depending on the other cards drawn there would have been more chance of a straight with a 6 than say, a 3, 4 or 5 (because of the Wild deuces).

But if I follow this line of possible logic, you think it would have auto held the 2 Deuces and the suited AK, lots more ways to win with that combo that a random single card.

But it will be interesting to see what answer we ultimately get from Malci.

Diane
 
Hi,

I would really appreciate more civilized comments please, rather than all those name calling which I don't think is appropriate.

Also, I don't promote Diceland nor Rome, I would really appreciate you keep them out of this thread and refer any issue to them directly from their misspelling or any other issue you may have.

I'm happy to check and solve any concern or issue ONLY with the brands we promote and the software the brands use which are; TopGame and Parlay.

Regarding the Auto-hold I am still investigating it. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong but I understand that there isn't an optimal play for video poker, and each software provider gives an auto-hold as recommendation option. From what I gathered from other software each gives its best recommendation based on highest risk while TopGame gives its best recommendation based on lowest risk. is that correct? I'm still checking this feature and waiting to hear from TopGame what can be done, if you have any further comments on it please let me know.

maphesto, We do not promote those casinos you mentioned on Revenue Giants; "goldencasinoclub, gocasinoclub or crazyslotsclub?"

Gremmyboy, I don't see the relevance of Rome or Microgaming to this thread.

Thank you and have a nice week,

Malci


If the discussion is about the software, then a glitch at, say, Diceland is just as relevant as if the example was from one of your own brands. Only when discussing how individual operators treat players can a distinction be drawn between brands you promote, and the others.


It has emerged that Rome group and Top Game are more or less the same entity. The relationship between this pair is pretty cosy, and Top Game are more likely to listen to Rome than a promoter with fewer brands.

Despite what you say, there IS an optimal strategy in Video Poker, and this is the one that yields the highest RTP over the long term. Some players do prefer to employ a strategy that increases the chances of a big hand at the expense of having a lower RTP. Some auto hold suggestions are open to debate, and the question is - is this one of them, or is this suggestion "wrong" in every sense.

Past issues have been dealt with poorly by the Top Game team, with denial of the obvious being their usual gambit, rather than admitting to a cock-up, and being truthful about how it happened, how players were affected, and plans to compensate them where necessary, and put in place better procedures to prevent the same error happening again.

The most notable issue was the disappearing wild on a progressive which made the jackpot impossible to win. It was weeks of denial, followed by removal of the game and the accrued pool. The game never came back, and Top Game were very evasive about what happened to the progressive pool. This lead to accusations that they had just taken it as extra profit, and after a struggle Top Game claimed it had been distributed back to players through other means, but with not much in the way of detail.

This episode severely dented trust in the brand, and hence trust in the operators in general. Top Game have done little to rebuild that trust, and recently engaged in conduct that made things ever WORSE for them.
 
Revenue Giants

Diane, Thank you so much for your kind words.
It is thanks to good people like you that I'm still here :notworthy

vinylweatherman, it is not a software thread nor am I representing any software. I will however, defend TopGame and Parlay as both are good software providers. I have room for comparison as I promoted brands that used other software providers (wont even give them the credit to be mentioned here) which none last on my program. The thread was about Winward issue which was already solved, we just continued into other concerns and valuable feedback which I'm checking into details, learning from you guys and trying to make a change.

As for your remark allow me to correct you; TopGame and Rome are NOT the same entity!! TopGame is a software provider and Rome is an operator. I'm not here to defend any other operator other than those we promote. so I will ask you kindly again please do not mix this thread with any other brand which is not on my affiliate program.

Regarding the video poker, nisosbar, no I don't play video poker, I play online when I can for fun but my specialty is online marketing and I run a marketing company called Revenue Giants, which promotes several online Casino and Bingo sites. Winward Casino is one of the sites we promote.

vinylweatherman, from what I gathered so far, there are different kinds of strategies and not one optimal strategy like you say. Although I'm not an active video poker player, I have many friends that are and they explained to me it is about reward vs. risk strategy (i.e high risk high reward or low risk low reward). Regarding what is best for whom (beginners or professional gamblers) each has different opinion, which only emphasis the fact that there isn't an optimal strategy.

Have a nice weekend!
Malci
 
Diane, Thank you so much for your kind words.
It is thanks to good people like you that I'm still here :notworthy

vinylweatherman, it is not a software thread nor am I representing any software. I will however, defend TopGame and Parlay as both are good software providers. I have room for comparison as I promoted brands that used other software providers (wont even give them the credit to be mentioned here) which none last on my program. The thread was about Winward issue which was already solved, we just continued into other concerns and valuable feedback which I'm checking into details, learning from you guys and trying to make a change.

As for your remark allow me to correct you; TopGame and Rome are NOT the same entity!! TopGame is a software provider and Rome is an operator. I'm not here to defend any other operator other than those we promote. so I will ask you kindly again please do not mix this thread with any other brand which is not on my affiliate program.

Regarding the video poker, nisosbar, no I don't play video poker, I play online when I can for fun but my specialty is online marketing and I run a marketing company called Revenue Giants, which promotes several online Casino and Bingo sites. Winward Casino is one of the sites we promote.

vinylweatherman, from what I gathered so far, there are different kinds of strategies and not one optimal strategy like you say. Although I'm not an active video poker player, I have many friends that are and they explained to me it is about reward vs. risk strategy (i.e high risk high reward or low risk low reward). Regarding what is best for whom (beginners or professional gamblers) each has different opinion, which only emphasis the fact that there isn't an optimal strategy.

Have a nice weekend!
Malci

Its nothing personal Malci, as I'm sure you're a nice person, but since you're here as a rep for your casino/s I will make the following comments:

We are not asking you to post in this thread to hear all about how wonderful your casino/s are, and how amazing your software provider is, and how terrible the other ones are by comparison. Unfortunately, you feel the need to promote your brands to the point where your posts are almost like cloaked advertising, rather than taking member's questions seriously and obtaining correct answers from those who design the software (whose praises you constantly sing).

You can also forget about throwing out the "Rome and Topgame are unrelated/not the same" line. Conclusive proof has been presented here in other threads to the contrary. Why the parties, and associates such as yourself, go to such lengths to create distance between them is a mystery to me. If they are both top line irreproachable companies, you would think they would be happy to be one and the same.

Lastly, it is right that Vinylweatherman and others pose questions about other casinos if they use the same software, as these dodgy video poker settings seem to be hard wired. Afaik, there IS an optimal (best RTP) strategy for all types of video poker, so the "it depends on risk decisions by the player" doesn't cut the mustard. If an operator is going to offer autohold, it has to be the optimal strategy for the PLAYER. Otherwise, it is cheating IMO.

I appreciate your time here, but help and information should not come with all the spruiking.
 
Revenue Giants

Dear Nifty29,

All those who knows me know that I always take things personally as this business is my life. I'm a workaholic who enjoys what she does for a living. And yes I am a marketer, this is what I do, I run a marketing company and promote brands I like, so I cannot help but praise what I promote and I only promote brands I believe to be the best. and that is my friend why it hurts me to hear bad things or wrong assumptions about those brands.

You may open a separate thread and discuss about my competition (give them room to defend themselves too) or the software providers. I was just asking to keep this thread related to the brands that on my program and if you wish to discuss software that those brands use please be my guest but don't mix competitor brands in there.

I'm taking every single feedback here very seriously and I'm checking what can be done. At the end of the day some things will not have my final decision but I do believe I have the power to make a change with my connections, and this is why I'm here.

Yours, Malci
 
ok, you didn't like my diceland pic, so I clicked the link in your posts and signed up at 21 dukes...again, less than 5 minutes, I hit this. it sure looks as though the software is holding the worst card in both examples
 

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Dear Nifty29,

All those who knows me know that I always take things personally as this business is my life. I'm a workaholic who enjoys what she does for a living. And yes I am a marketer, this is what I do, I run a marketing company and promote brands I like, so I cannot help but praise what I promote and I only promote brands I believe to be the best. and that is my friend why it hurts me to hear bad things or wrong assumptions about those brands.

You may open a separate thread and discuss about my competition (give them room to defend themselves too) or the software providers. I was just asking to keep this thread related to the brands that on my program and if you wish to discuss software that those brands use please be my guest but don't mix competitor brands in there.

I'm taking every single feedback here very seriously and I'm checking what can be done. At the end of the day some things will not have my final decision but I do believe I have the power to make a change with my connections, and this is why I'm here.

Yours, Malci

Well, since you have pretty much ignored the points myself and others raised, as evidenced by you taking the opportunity to praise your brands yet again, perhaps you could answer this question:

What have you managed to change since joining CM?
 
.... I was just asking to keep this thread related to the brands that on my program and if you wish to discuss software that those brands use please be my guest but don't mix competitor brands in there.

Sorry Malci but that is not really your call to make. If you had started this thread I can (maybe) see grounds for your request but since that isn't the case I think the membership should be free to post as they see fit. While respecting the Forum Rules of course.
 
Revenue Giants

maxd and Nifty29, thank you for making me feel so welcome here.
That's the way to "encourage" representatives to come and assist players on CM forum.
It seems when a representative is banned from CM s/he gets more respect from you than someone that makes best effort to be available and communicate with you on a regular basis.

Nifty, if you need a proof please check players issue that were reported online and their solution.
or check the initial issue here on this thread which was solved as well.

Dear CM's members,

Regarding the mentioned issues here and resolutions:

1. T&C - Winward is making a complete rewrite on their entire T&C to make it clearer as suggested. They will also add the option if players decide not to have bonus at all, and more. Once it is live I'll send you the link for further feedback.

2. Video poker - I spoke to TopGame and did my own research. I'm afraid the more I ask the more different opinions I get. Some players say there is an optimal strategy other say there isn't. Each believe a different strategy is best but it depends on the cards and besides skills there is still the "luck" element to it.

I believe the auto hold feature is necessary based on your feedback as well. I understand newbies value/use this option more than the professional player. does It shall be clear the auto holder option is a recommendation feature only, and of course player may choose to disregard the auto cards. Therefore, at this point of time I couldn't convince TopGame to give different recommendations strategy. They emphasis the feature is a recommendation only and the auto holder strategy was created for the benefit of the players only.

Regardless of some hostility from few members here, my main goal remain the same, is to assist all affiliates and players on CasinoMeister. I'll be available for you all 24/7. You may also contact me privately via email at any time (malci [at] RevenueGiants.com).

I will get back to you once the T&C has changed.

Regards, Malci
 
Dear CM's members,

Regarding the mentioned issues here and resolutions:

1. T&C - Winward is making a complete rewrite on their entire T&C to make it clearer as suggested. They will also add the option if players decide not to have bonus at all, and more. Once it is live I'll send you the link for further feedback.

2. Video poker - I spoke to TopGame and did my own research. I'm afraid the more I ask the more different opinions I get. Some players say there is an optimal strategy other say there isn't. Each believe a different strategy is best but it depends on the cards and besides skills there is still the "luck" element to it.

I believe the auto hold feature is necessary based on your feedback as well. I understand newbies value/use this option more than the professional player. does It shall be clear the auto holder option is a recommendation feature only, and of course player may choose to disregard the auto cards. Therefore, at this point of time I couldn't convince TopGame to give different recommendations strategy. They emphasis the feature is a recommendation only and the auto holder strategy was created for the benefit of the players only.

I will get back to you once the T&C has changed.

Regards, Malci

I wanted to thank your post but I couldn't do that.
What I left out was not necessary at all, but that's my opinion.

Thank you for taking these issues serious:thumbsup:
Now I truelly believe that it's actually possible to maybe get at least one TopGame casino that cares about their customers.
At least it's a start and I'm looking forward to see the results.

So thank you for this Malci:)
 
I have stated this before in other threads. It is truly ashamed that TopGame only does business with crooks at worst--I guess rogues are generally crooked and have no ethical code whatsoever.

I really like some of their slots and the platform has so much potential. Their Video Poker would be okay if it did not auto-hold cards seemingly at random. For example, it may hold the ACE of spades for you but not hold the Jack of Spades, or it may hold the ace and not hold a pair of jacks! Of course you can click on the cards to hold them the way you want but it definitely make it much easier for a skilled player to make a mistake (I have made several). For the completely inexperienced player, this would seemingly be nothing more than a trap to have the player play at 100% house advantage. I asked the Reps and Rome, Diamond VIP, and Rialto if there was any way to disable this feature and the answer was no.

Before I realized playing at TopGame sites (at least for me) was always a very poor choice. I realize there may be a few operators out there who are not complete scumbags but why should I take the chance.

The standard terms about limiting your win to 10x any deposit under $249 boggles my mind. I consider myself to be a "high roller" but I would NEVER play under those terms.

The software seems to be relatively fair and random. I have had some great runs there. It is getting paid that proves difficult to impossible.

I don't get it. I don't understand why anyone would play there and I don't understand why they, the TopGame people and their licensees won't just do business on the up and up. Don't they understand that they could make a killing in the US market if they would just operate in a professional and ethical way?

Absolutely agree with the above post, i like to try different Casino's for the variety and recently played at Rome (Topgame software), the slots were i have to say alot more fun than those of Microgaming and RTG, i had a small win and cashed out only to find over a month later i am still waiting to be paid, during this month i have deposited (and lost most of) well over 2k at other Casino's that i would most certainly have deposited at Rome if my payout had been sent in a timely manner since i enjoyed playing there.

It is hard to imagine why when any Casino that has such great software would risk losing any player by delaying payouts, surely the quicker you payout the sooner that player is likely to redeposit, definitely true in my case.
 
Absolutely agree with the above post, i like to try different Casino's for the variety and recently played at Rome (Topgame software), the slots were i have to say alot more fun than those of Microgaming and RTG, i had a small win and cashed out only to find over a month later i am still waiting to be paid, during this month i have deposited (and lost most of) well over 2k at other Casino's that i would most certainly have deposited at Rome if my payout had been sent in a timely manner since i enjoyed playing there.

It is hard to imagine why when any Casino that has such great software would risk losing any player by delaying payouts, surely the quicker you payout the sooner that player is likely to redeposit, definitely true in my case.

Just an update to say i did eventually receive my Payout from Rome Casino
 
ok, you didn't like my diceland pic, so I clicked the link in your posts and signed up at 21 dukes...again, less than 5 minutes, I hit this. it sure looks as though the software is holding the worst card in both examples


Anyone have WinPoker installed? Punch in the paytable and then that hand and it will tell you best hold. ... Or wait.... Doesn't Wizard of Odds have a calculator/simulator online that would do that?
 

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