Virtual Ted??

[555YY]

hello mr.ted,

i'm a relatively new player to the online casino scene, at first i was very reluctant to try out virtual casino, after hearing about its rather unsavory previous reputation on the gambling forums

but after reading through some of your clear and articulate responses i decided to give a virtual a shot, although your website was very unclear as to terms and conditions of each bonuses listed, your live support was direct and helpful. i deposited 100$ and took 300% bonus, i did pretty well after fulfilling the wage requirement and ended up with something like 1.6K. according to the terms i cashed out 1300 (1000 cash in/300 bonus)

overall i'd say i had an enjoyable experience at your casino. after taking a coupon for 300% sticky bonus, i can hardly complain about only being able to cashout 10 times my deposit. although some overall helpful suggestions might be to have more clear and precise t&c attached to each bonus coupon, and of course faster cashout process as everyone suggested.

i would just like to state that i'm currently patiently awaiting my cashout and so far have aboslutely no complaints as a first time customer to virtual. i like to commend you guys for giving me an enjoyable experience

 

[maxlevine]

I'd like to say that those exchanges between casino reps and players are very entertaining.

I learn a lot reading posts from experienced webmasters and BJ experts, casinomeister's opinions based on his direct confrontations with casino operators, and those opinions, thoughts, conclusions from two diametrically opposed point of views coming from discussions between casino reps and players. Wish there were more managers posting.

Max

 

[chuchu59]

Virtualted,

Sorry that I didnt reply to you but having seen so many replies from other poster,I think you are getting into the thick of things and hopefully,your casino will start to be seen differently. Two things worth mentioning here,though. First,if deposits were only made by neteller,why is there a need for a faxback form? I have been stung by several RTG casinos who ask for faxback forms but after submitting these to them,they always claim they never received them although I used both fax and e-mail. It's really a pain in the neck and I always needed a third party to mediate. I havent made a deposit at your casino for quite some time because I wanted to avoid being hassled by casinos who claim they never received these from me despite sending these to them several times and because of virtual's notoriety. The latter I am willing to bet against in view of your frank and candid posts but I am still worried about the former. Second,while I do not know about the costs of instant neteller withdrawals to you,I do think this is a splendid opportunity to step into the vacuum left by Nostalgia and Phoenician. Players worry about non-payment by the casinos and instant neteller withdrawals will go a long way to soothing them. As long as there are no bonuses involved,you could use this to attract players who want to have their winnings instantly.

 

[virtualted]

ChuChu,
We discussed the idea for instant payments, and the problem with that now runs the other way. The 95% of my customers, who a waiting period is ok, because they are getting the big bonuses, would than say "can't you make an exception this time" it is best to serve the masses. Also remember that when Phoenician was doing this they had there Video poker and slots set at the lowest payables and had the Jackpots turned off on all of the slot games except the system progressives. The majority of their players were table game players, who wanted quick return. I in fact played there, and was paid to my neteller in 5 minutes, but funny thing is that was 6 months ago and the funds are still in my neteller ( Damn if I was going to let the nasty casino keep MY money).
Fax Back Forms,
For non credit card deposits, the sole purpose is for security to verify who the player is. Again because we do more freebies to bring in new players than most casinos we need to be a little stickier to the point. When I came in today, there were 76 pending withdrawals from yesterday. On just a quick once over 43 of those were denied as fraudulent accounts. This was with out even seeing Id, and yes they were requesting funds to Neteller. Neteller may verify the players identity, but they don't know when the person signed up in the casino they gave all fake information, except the Neteller account #. If a person only has ONE account and they deposited by neteller and are now requesting a withdrawal by Neteller, we never push the idea. But as my theme in this whole thread has been about, there are those 5% who dictate how we look at the other 95%. My customers know they can always contact me and ask pretty much any question and I am going to be honest with them, from what machines are hitting, to how many decks of cards at black jack, to the best way to play a certain game. I do this because yes the odds are in the casinos favor, and except for someone who has short term luck, the casino does come out ahead.

 

[Vesuvio]

We want on average for every player to cash out 40% of the time. What I said in an earlier post is that the 40% overall is going to less than 5% of the players. But on the other hand the other 95% of the players are the ones taking 400% bonuses and cash backs and free chips on every deposit. I have said there is a balance between all players and to sweep them all under one blanket is wrong. As this thread started, every customer is different, and wants different things.

All in all it is this type of person who is killing the industry for other players. So know where there are less than 5% skilled players on line, but who do account for over 85% of my payouts (our stats), we will have to make the other 95% adhere to rules that are there for those 5% chosen few.

All these stats were starting to make me dizzy so I thought I'd just bring these two statements above together to check I'm not hallucinating. Though now I'm not even sure they're necessarily contradictory

And does the Martingale really work? Surely you'd be mad to turn down someone who wants to try it - unless they've got an infinite bankroll, in which case you'd be better off robbing them and fleeing the country...

Definitely an entertaining discussion, though

 

[Vesuvio]

The 95% of my customers, who a waiting period is ok, because they are getting the big bonuses, would than say "can't you make an exception this time" it is best to serve the masses.

I'd love to see the market research where customers said: if I'm getting a bonus I'm perfectly happy to be paid slowly. & what a noble gesture - treating all players equally badly.

Though most of your bonuses are no doubt traps, surely the 5% of 'sharp' players are taking advantage of bonuses!? Or these are the only 5% of players at your casino that don't take bonuses!? Or they take small bonuses and so deserve to be paid quicker even though they're ruining the casino industry by not taking bigger bonuses and losing their deposits

Sorry, I don't really mean to be too critical. It's refreshing to see a casino operator being so dangerously honest. I'm just a bit confused - definitely time for bed

 

[bethug]

One thing for sure ted said is true is about Martingale it does work, if it didnt casinos would have 1 to 1500 dollar tables and i would eat them alive.

I use to eat william hill alive and i ate casino 365 alive many times using martigale work it up too over 13000 on both casino.


Ted casino is a bonuslover haven, they have all kinds of bonus there, pass few month they seem to be doing a great job, unlike connet to casino.

You have to take your hat off to ted, he in here explaing his casino, unlike connet to casino people.

 

[Freudian]

And does the Martingale really work? Surely you'd be mad to turn down someone who wants to try it - unless they've got an infinite bankroll, in which case you'd be better off robbing them and fleeing the country...

The martingale system doesn't work, if you mean it gives you a larger chance to win. The house advantage is completely unchanged. What it does do is alter variance. You get larger swings. You are correct that with unlimited bankroll someone would always be guaranteed to avoid losses, but since no one has unlimited bankroll it is a theoretical objection and not a practical one.

So there is no reason whatsoever for a casino to ever take any step to limit it. If they do it is evidence of fuzzy thinking and I would not trust them to make sound descisions when it comes to other things.

 

[bethug]

The martingale system works , if it didnt, they would have table limits from 1 dollar to 10,000 ask the casino why they dont. The pirate use a form of it and blew alot of casinos up.

 

[Vesuvio]

The martingale system doesn't work, if you mean it gives you a larger chance to win. The house advantage is completely unchanged. What it does do is alter variance. You get larger swings. You are correct that with unlimited bankroll someone would always be guaranteed to avoid losses, but since no one has unlimited bankroll it is a theoretical objection and not a practical one.

So there is no reason whatsoever for a casino to ever take any step to limit it. If they do it is evidence of fuzzy thinking and I would not trust them to make sound descisions when it comes to other things.

Yep, it was a fairly rhetorical question

I guess the reason they have different limits is that they want to have a smooth cash flow. From Virtualted's statements you can see they don't have that many players. If a few of them win big they might be in trouble. With limits of 1-10000 you'd need 14 or 15 losses in a row to get to the table limit, so players might well win in the short term (which might last months/years in extreme cases). If they kept playing they'd give it all back eventually, but the casinos want to be winning at least the house edge in the short term. The higher the minimum bet & lower the maximum the quicker the system players lose.

Anyway, they've always got the fall back of rigging all their games to take into account big winners/losers - allegedly

 

[bethug]

Vesuvio, they had a special on the travel station about 3 years ago, in so many words they bann a martingale players, i wish i can recall his name. but he would look for the table with the best odds and blow it up and quit when he makes $10,000

most players dont quit. they still trying to reach that big win they had last week or last year.

 

[bethug]

i believe ted casino has alot of players, they have the best on going bonus out there. If connet to casino and crystal palace still around, i am sure virtual casino will be around

 

[caruso]

Some nonsense being talked here.

Does everyone here realize, why most casinos do not allow roulette, baccarat, and craps? Because there is a small % of players who would place money on the pass and don't pass or red and black excreta. They do this to just make wagering requirements.

That casino managers STILL believe this fully ten years down the line is staggering. Betting red / black has a house edge of 2.7% (assuming only half loss on zero with Euro roulette). Betting player / banker has a house edge of over 1% (5% banker commission), as has opposite betting on craps. Back in the day when a bonus had a tiny playing requirement there may have been uninformed players who chose the higher expected loss / no variance route because the "no risk" option still yielded a win. All the casinos had to do was up the playing requirements to counter the problem. This they did - but they still don't understand why equal betting is no longer profitable.

I cannot understand how one can presume to run a mathematical temple like a casino without the simplest knowledge of the subject matter. It's not just Ted; not ONE of these idiots has a clue. I remember talking to "Alan" from the ill-fated Forty Plus on another board a while back; he told me he "really had a lot of mathematical knowledge", and that equal betting on roulette had a zero percent house edge. After myself and one or two others gently pointed him in the right direction he acknowledged that his "lot of mathematical knowledge" might have some flaws.

Everyone knows the Martingale system works, so the casinos have to adjust the mininum and maximum bets to offset it.

Bullshit. You wouldn't be trying to suck in a few mugs with this statement, now would you?

There are NO, repeat NO caveats to this. "Infinite" bankrolls do not solve anything, because if you have an "infinite" bankroll you will also entertain an "infinite" losing run which will run into "infinity" and you will lose "infinitely".

Not that I expect you to understand this.

Casinos have maximum bets that reflect the degree of risk exposure they're comfortable with. That's why Bellagio has $100,000 tables and my local casino has 200 ones. Casinos do not fear "Martingalers" betting 1-2-4 etc, winning $1 per run and risking their total bankroll with the eventual loss.

Not that I expect you to understand this, either.

 

[bethug]

caruso??? do you play at ted casino?

 

[virtualted]

I can not speak for any software except RTG, and all I can say from the casino operator end it is nit rigged or manipulated. I also believe RTG would not have it rigged on their side because again they would rather have the good publicity of people winning at their casinos; they receive their money from the casinos off deposits so the more money coming in the more money they make. If you mean it is rigged because there is a house edge, than that is just common sense.
Vesuvio, you said all of our bonuses are traps. Hate to tell you that you are wrong. If every player to just the play through levels and cashed out, the casinos would go broke, as would Las Vegas, if every time you got up you walked away. The consistent winners in a casino are those who practice money management. So if you are a 5.00 hand black jack player and buy in for 100.00, but the casino gives you an extra 300.00 and says you need to play 30x. The house edge is in your favor, now if you "fall for the trap and start playing 50.00 a hand because you have a larger bankroll and playing crazy, that is not the casinos fault. The majority of my players which as you said is small, I have 300-500 depositors in the casino at a single time, and maybe 20% are on a small 30% bonus, and 1 or 2 players not % are playing with no bonus. The rest are all playing with large bonuses.
As a casino we would love ALL players to play with no bonus, just player against house. It would increase our win ratio, and we would not have to have as many stipulations, but in all honesty it's not going to happen. So Vesuvio if you were to play in a casino and play strictly cash against the house, so you KNOW you will loose in the long run. That would be better for you than using a bonus, no matter what the stipulations were and winning? If that is true I wish a lot more players were as noble as you and forgive the win. So yes one of the stipulations on playing with the bonus is a slower pay out, but guess what, if you lose, than you can tell yourself it was instant payout. The only people who have to wait for payouts are players who WON. I think that waiting a little while to get paid is a lot better than not getting paid at all.
Freudian, All Las Vegas casinos are run with "fuzzy" thinking? Why do you think that there is a table minimum and maximum at every table you sit down at? Because with out it people could use Martingale or a variation. Yes that does not mean a player is guaranteed a win, but like you said it does alter the variance. So if every player altered the variance of the games, don't you think the casinos would change it?

 

[Freudian]

The martingale system works , if it didnt, they would have table limits from 1 dollar to 10,000 ask the casino why they dont. The pirate use a form of it and blew alot of casinos up.

Do you claim it alters the house advantage any way? The only thing it does is increase variance.

I know you are really into your own system, but there is no system that works. That you believe it does is irrelevant. Each and every bet you do is subjected to the same house advantage no matter the amount you choose to bet. This is elementary math. It is as certain as that you will land when you jump.

As for the reason casinos have table limits? It is obvious they want to limit variance for themselves. The pirate case show why a high variance might not be what the casino wants, especially when the casino is so stupid it will allow a player to put in bets the casino can't cover. The reason the pirate won was luck, not because of a system.

virtualted. Like has been explained several times here it has nothing to do with the system working but everything to do with variance increasing more than the casino prefers. I suspect a lot of online casinos don't have all that much money, and that is the reason there are so many problems with withdrawals over a few thousand dollars. So feel free to have whatever table limits you want but the martingale system has zero to do with sharp play and is just basic bankroll management from the casinos side. Beliving the system works is fuzzy thinking, decreasing house variance is not.

And what the do you mean with "The consistent winners in a casino are those who practice money management.". Surely you must realize that everyone (except cardcounters in BJ and jackpots that reach a certain size) playing at a casino are losers in the long run, no matter what money management they employ?

 

[Vesuvio]

So yes one of the stipulations on playing with the bonus is a slower pay out, but guess what, if you lose, than you can tell yourself it was instant payout. The only people who have to wait for payouts are players who WON.

I love this quote!

I think I might have confused you (though it's a mutual thing), as I play almost exclusively with bonuses and do very well with them.

I didn't say 'all' your bonuses were traps, but you know as well as I do that you can play around with the terms until the odds are back in your favour. Most of your bonuses will be traps for the average player, some will be traps for everyone. You seemed to be saying that the 'sharp' players weren't playing with bonuses, which struck me as odd, but now you're saying the 5% are the sharp players playing with bonuses & discipline, which I'm sure is right.

Bethug - I can't believe you consider waiting to make $10 000 playing the Martingale as sensible quitting while you're ahead. You have to survive 10000 sequences without getting a long run of losses, or you'll lose the table limit (+ 1/2 the table limit + 1/4 the table limit etc.). Sounds a bit risky to me...

 

[Slotster!]

Virtual Ted is great!

Thanks for the honest insight into the 'behind the scenes' business... Some great discussion points on this thread, really enjoying reading it!

Would I look like a complete numpty if I asked someone to PM me the Martingale System though?

 

[bethug]

People keep saying the casino cant be bet over and over, it can be bet, like bettiing on sports you can make money, i am doing it every day. Also hood3000system.com is now up and its free.

If you dont think you can win, why do you play Freudian? I play to win.

Turning 80 bucks into over 10,000
Turning 120 bucks into 8000

I have dont this many times. yes the key is money managment

 

[Freudian]

People keep saying the casino cant be bet over and over, it can be bet, like bettiing on sports you can make money, i am doing it every day. Also hood3000system.com is now up and its free.

If you dont think you can win, why do you play Freudian? I play to win.

Turning 80 bucks into over 10,000
Turning 120 bucks into 8000

I have dont this many times. yes the key is money managment

bethug. If you claim to have a system that beats the casino in the long run you are wrong. It is a mathematical impossibility. Simple as that. That you believe otherwise is not relevant at all. Unless you are exploiting (either by intent or not by intent) a flaw in the RNG of online casinos your system will make everyone that uses it a loser in the long run.

This is not up for debate. This is a certainty. That you don't recognize this illustrates your lack of knowledge in math and probability. I know you like to cite examples where you ran up a big win. I have the feeling you aren't as talkative about your losses. But in the long run, providing the RNGs work properly, you will be a loser. Betting on sports is different, because skill is involved. With gambling it's about luck. Even if you play optimal you are a dog. Which is of course why casinos exist.

I only play at online casinos where a bonus is able to negate the house advantage, making me a winner in the long run. I am the type of player virtualted hates. I would never play without a bonus. I don't enjoy the act of gambling enough to willingly take EV- bets.

 

[bethug]

Freudian, every month i have a net win of 5 figures. This month i am off track due to some projects i am trying to get up.

Went to vegas last month won left up, went to vegas in sept left up.

Played inetbet took 50 buck ran it to 600
Took 1000 and turn it into 4000plus at a micro casino
went back to inetbet 110 ran it to 800 busted out talking on the phone.

That most of my plays beside the sports betting I do

There people i know that play professional and they make good money, i have help them buy million dollar homes, i can count over 15 people.

I never say i win everytime, but i can say this with a 1000 depoist i will come up 95% of the time and triple my money.

Its all about money mangment. i am not going to stay at a casino and lose 800 of my 1000 bucks trying to play get back.

I dont neeed no bonus to bet a casino, but will i take one yes.

I have proven you dont need a bonus to bet a casino. Meet me in vegas and i will prove it again.

 

[caruso]

Always glad to see Damian hijack yet ANOTHER thread with his system junk-talk.

 

[bethug]

caruso, thanks
You never did say did you play at Ted casino?

 

[virtualted]

I want to apologize if anyone thought I was pushing a system or that a particular sysytem works. Martingale works, if there are no min or max bets at a table. Since all games have min and max bets Martingale will not work. I have seen almost every system out there and the only one that I have seen that has worked everytime is "CIPHER" and that is because it is not based on a betting progression , but more of exploiting a weakness in the way the game itself works.The best system in the world is short term luck, and those are the real winners.
Freudian, your quote" I only play at online casinos where a bonus is able to negate the house advantage, making me a winner in the long run. I am the type of player virtualted hates. I would never play without a bonus. I don't enjoy the act of gambling enough to willingly take EV- bets." Is perfect!! That is the exact point I am saying, and yes you would be the player who I would not want playing in the casino, and would identify as a skilled player. I do have a question for you though. Would you play with no bonus, if you were gauranteed instant payout, or would you rather play with a bonus and a longer payout time?

 

[The Dude]

Always glad to see Damian hijack yet ANOTHER thread with his system junk-talk.

No more hood system talk here please.

Thank you.

 

[caruso]

Excellent. How about a forum-wide exclusion order? It seems one thread in every five gets dragged down that path, and Damian has plenty of web sites set up now pimping that snake oil. He hardly needs this one.

 

[bethug]

caruso, you a lying and yes i will promote my system until i die.

everytime i turn around you slamming me

Its cool bryan cause i am starting to see more hate for no reason.

 

[nafanny29]

I want to apologize if anyone thought I was pushing a system or that a particular sysytem works. Martingale works, if there are no min or max bets at a table. Since all games have min and max bets Martingale will not work. I have seen almost every system out there and the only one that I have seen that has worked everytime is "CIPHER" and that is because it is not based on a betting progression , but more of exploiting a weakness in the way the game itself works.The best system in the world is short term luck, and those are the real winners.

This is interesting!!

If you are saying "CIPHER" works (And I fully believe it does BTW), then you are saying that the RNG is not dealing truely random cards and can be exploited (by us or the casino)?!?

On the subject of Martingale I guess people who say it works have not yet experianced 10 or 15 losses in a row which will happen sooner or later and when it does you'll know about it

On the subject of bonuses I appreacite that any casino has to have a sign-up offer these days but after that if they would reward action with bonuses/rebates/comps etc that would stop the "bonus abuse problems which plague both casinos and players IMHO.

 

[virtualted]

Nafanny29, I have never used the Cipher sytem, I have only seen the results and have seen the results from my casino, and I know it works they way he does it. If anyone else using the system learns it 95% than they might not have the same results. Someone needs to talk to Cipher, and get a better understanding of how his system works in detail.
The problem is that when a player does have one of those streaches of 10- 15 loses. The first thing that is said is the game is "rigged". When I think most people realize that there are going to be long streaks like this.
The one thing I still find most strange, and that is from the established gambler, is how many hands they play on line? Most people do not realize that if you are playing on the RTG software single hand black jack, you will average around 500 hands per hour. I have a number of players playing over 750 hands per hour. So when you are on line and you remember that 15 minutes ago the dealer got two black jacks in a row, like they just did (the game must be fixed). This same thing would happen at a B&M if you sat there for the same amount of hands. 15 minutes on line at 500 hands per hour = 125 hands. Las Vegas 40 hands an hour a little over three hours at the table.

 

[amandajm]

The inner workings of the Virtual Mind are quite shocking..

 

[Simmo!]

Would I look like a complete numpty if I asked someone to PM me the Martingale System though?

Yes Seriously though, i bet you double or quits someone PM's you Slotster. And if they do, double or quits someone else does too. Etc.

 

[Freudian]

I want to apologize if anyone thought I was pushing a system or that a particular sysytem works. Martingale works, if there are no min or max bets at a table. Since all games have min and max bets Martingale will not work. I have seen almost every system out there and the only one that I have seen that has worked everytime is "CIPHER" and that is because it is not based on a betting progression , but more of exploiting a weakness in the way the game itself works.The best system in the world is short term luck, and those are the real winners.
Freudian, your quote" I only play at online casinos where a bonus is able to negate the house advantage, making me a winner in the long run. I am the type of player virtualted hates. I would never play without a bonus. I don't enjoy the act of gambling enough to willingly take EV- bets." Is perfect!! That is the exact point I am saying, and yes you would be the player who I would not want playing in the casino, and would identify as a skilled player. I do have a question for you though. Would you play with no bonus, if you were gauranteed instant payout, or would you rather play with a bonus and a longer payout time?

Of course not. I don't take EV- bets. Don't matter if you hire a Marilyn Monroe impersonator singing "Happy Birthday" to me. I have no problem with you calling me skilled player and not wanting me to play at your casino. That is entirely up to you. I never have forced myself on any casino. I have just used the offers they make to me. I have always done what was expected of me to be able to withdraw before withdrawing. I have never done a chargeback. I have never lied in any way with my personal information. I don't see myself as a bad guy.

As for payouts. You can have whatever rules you want regarding that as long as you say so to your customers. That doesn't mean that personally I don't feel that payouts should be as fast as they could be. There is no reason why they shouldn't. If a casino can take my money in one second when I deposit, it is silly that I would have to wait beyond 48 hours when withdrawing. It's common customer service. I don't particularly mind waiting since I have a big enough buffer in my Neteller account but as a customer at some point you start wondering where the money is and have to start contacting customer support which can be a pain.

Lastly martingale doesn't work as in increasing your chances of winning. Without a betting limit you can keep trying it until you run out of funds, of course. But that doesn't make you a winner. The size of your losses when you run out of luck are bigger than the size of your winnings when you don't. Simple math.

 

[Vesuvio]

The inner workings of the Virtual Mind are quite shocking..

It is capable of works of stunning genius, though, a case in point being the Promotional Rules page at their casinos. You just have to bow down before such masterpieces :notworthy
----------------
Please note, in the following events if customer wins without using a bonus, the 10 times of deposit as maximum cash out rule will apply to the most recent deposit in which the winnings were generated if:

1. if the total amount of bonuses received during the whole life time of the account is 100% or more than the total deposits made or
2. If on the past 2 deposits customer received a bonus over 100%,

In order to by pass this rule customer has to have explicit permission from casino before making the deposit, and beginning play.
----------------
I wonder if companies registered in Costa Rica are eligible for these awards:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[The Dude]

It is capable of works of stunning genius, though, a case in point being the Promotional Rules page at their casinos. You just have to bow down before such masterpieces :notworthy
----------------
Please note, in the following events if customer wins without using a bonus, the 10 times of deposit as maximum cash out rule will apply to the most recent deposit in which the winnings were generated if:

1. if the total amount of bonuses received during the whole life time of the account is 100% or more than the total deposits made or
2. If on the past 2 deposits customer received a bonus over 100%,

In order to by pass this rule customer has to have explicit permission from casino before making the deposit, and beginning play.
----------------
I wonder if companies registered in Costa Rica are eligible for these awards:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I'll have to admit, my eyes glazed over twice while reading this. And now my brain hurts...

 

[virtualted]

There is a reason we have that. Lets say a customer plays with a 400% bonus on 10 on 5 straight deposits, on there 6th deposit the bonus does not go into their account for one reason or another, so after the customer plays they notify support and request their bonus that they never got, and being good customer service we give it to them. On the next deposit the same thing happens, but the player WINS, with out bonus. In this case we will hold the customer to the same cash out terms as if they had used the bonus. This rule is also enforced when a player comes in takes a big bonus to build up certain slot machines to their maximum bonus payout, than go ahead and deposit with no bonus and make one or two spins on a slot and hit the bonus round. Again this is a rule that is put in place because of the 1 or 2% of the players who are looking for an unfair advantage. So instead of just stopping the practice and harming 98% of our customers we put this in to stop 2%.
Also, when we changed terms about 6 months ago, we asked all of our current customers to offer suggestions to better understand the rules or to write them clearer. We also made the same request to players here on this forum, which was met with you are the casino! We are not supposed to help you!" So again I say if ANYONE has a suggestion on changing a rule or term or condition that will make it easier for everyone, I am always listening.

 

[nafanny29]

I would suggest not offering a bonus on every deposit. Otherwise all your players get used to bonuses and wont play without them.

Id liken it to going to a discount store and finding no discounts, everything is at normal price-your not gonna buy anything.

However if a regular store has an occasional offer then its not expected and appreciated much more.

My suggestion for all online casinos would be to have a system that calculates all your wagers in a month, then rewards you with a bonus based on what the person has theoretically lost.

Eg. A person wagers $10000 on BJ and $10000 on roulette.

If he plays reasonably he would earn the casino $100+ on BJ and $270 on roulette. A 20% scheme would give him a bonus of $74 for next month.

This would reward hi and lo rollers fairly based on the action they give your casino and keep them happy, and rid your place of bonus hunters overnight.

Just my 2c

 

[chuchu59]

There is a reason we have that. Lets say a customer plays with a 400% bonus on 10 on 5 straight deposits, on there 6th deposit the bonus does not go into their account for one reason or another, so after the customer plays they notify support and request their bonus that they never got, and being good customer service we give it to them. On the next deposit the same thing happens, but the player WINS, with out bonus. In this case we will hold the customer to the same cash out terms as if they had used the bonus. This rule is also enforced when a player comes in takes a big bonus to build up certain slot machines to their maximum bonus payout, than go ahead and deposit with no bonus and make one or two spins on a slot and hit the bonus round. Again this is a rule that is put in place because of the 1 or 2% of the players who are looking for an unfair advantage. So instead of just stopping the practice and harming 98% of our customers we put this in to stop 2%.
Also, when we changed terms about 6 months ago, we asked all of our current customers to offer suggestions to better understand the rules or to write them clearer. We also made the same request to players here on this forum, which was met with you are the casino! We are not supposed to help you!" So again I say if ANYONE has a suggestion on changing a rule or term or condition that will make it easier for everyone, I am always listening.

Virtualted,

Its a pity my wife and I never received any messages asking for our opinions. We both have accounts at Virtual and would have been very willing to offer comments.

 

[virtualted]

ChuChu,
Not sure when you signed up, but in September when we launched the new site, we gave all current players 50.00 to come check out the new site and terms and for their comments. If you PM me your user names I will check and see why you were not part of the invitation.

 

[Vesuvio]

There is a reason we have that. Lets say a customer plays with a 400% bonus on 10 on 5 straight deposits, on there 6th deposit the bonus does not go into their account for one reason or another, so after the customer plays they notify support and request their bonus that they never got, and being good customer service we give it to them. On the next deposit the same thing happens, but the player WINS, with out bonus. In this case we will hold the customer to the same cash out terms as if they had used the bonus.

Not sure about the Slots reason (it sounds like the RTG ones must be badly designed if you can be that sure of getting the bonus round), but I don't understand the above. Surely if the player WINS (capitals to express shock & horror?) then he's won with his own money and there's no problem!? What did the earlier deposits have to do with it? If your CS decide to give the bonus he'll be held to the bonus terms, if not, he won't - surely that's fair? I assume each time there's a zero balance before depositing.

As for changes to the terms and conditions - a start would be to run them through MS Word's grammar and spelling checker

 

[virtualted]

Vesuvio, It is nit there for when the player wins, as you state, but when he looses. If you deposit and excpect a bonus but go ahead and start playing anyway, and lose your entire balance before you get your bonus, are you saying that the casino should tell the player "too Bad you should have waited for the bonus and since you lost sorry your done." We do not do that if it is apparent that the player normal wants a bonus, and did not receive it the player is credited.
So what I read into your post is that a player should be able to play with out a bonuse, just there money with no conditions. But if they lose than the casino should give them a bonus so they can try to win a second chance.

 

[Vesuvio]

So what I read into your post is that a player should be able to play with out a bonuse, just there money with no conditions. But if they lose than the casino should give them a bonus so they can try to win a second chance.

I don't see why you think the player's getting a wonderful deal here. They're just being given the bonus they were supposed to receive anyway. It'll still be sticky and have all your usual wagering requirements. If they've already lost the deposit there's an even lower chance than usual of making a profit.

It's not a good reason for introducing a term that you'll be able to use to deny paying out a jackpot when someone's deposited their own money and won't be expecting any conditions to apply.

If you think you're losing some money from failing to credit bonuses properly than maybe you should just put that right? Or inform the player that bonuses will be credited instantly & if they're not they need to contact CS straight away.

*** Just thinking more about it - surely if you can see the player has deposited without submitting a bonus claim code you've got absolutely no reason to hold them to your terms? But I presume you still would?

 

[amandajm]

Please note, in the following events if customer wins without using a bonus, the 10 times of deposit as maximum cash out rule will apply to the most recent deposit in which the winnings were generated if:

1. if the total amount of bonuses received during the whole life time of the account is 100% or more than the total deposits made or
2. If on the past 2 deposits customer received a bonus over 100%,

In order to by pass this rule customer has to have explicit permission from casino before making the deposit, and beginning play.

1) I open a new account and deposit $100 for a sticky $300 dollar bonus. I bust out the lot.

2) I deposit $280 through 14 $20 deposits and I could still not cashout more than 10X my deposit.

Brain pain unnacceptable practise in my opinion. In fact it should be illegal.

VTED - you have asked me before to stop bein so critical and offer up some ideas for solutions to the problems I highlight.

I think you should close all of your skins and open a firm called The Bonus Casino.

Credit all boni upon deposit.
Do your best to make all boni offers as understandable as possible.
Employ a skilled bonus player to run the rule over everything you pump out. From bonus offer, mathematics, amount and the terms. Drop the max cashout for good.

 

[555YY]

what i think ted is saying here is that say for example:

player A plays at virtual, he signs up for a bonus coupon when he deposited, but as he begins to play he realized that the bonus wasn't credited to his account. so he contacts support and asks for the bonus as he continues to play. support grants him the bonus and he proceed to lose both the bonus and deposit.

now the second time, player A goes back, he does the same thing. deposits his money and play without a bonus. now if he wins, he'll cashout everything out. now if he loses, he'll go back to support and repeat what he did the first time, which is to claim he wanted a bonus and was not awarded one. so basically he gets a free ride and a second chance with the bonus.

do you see what i'm saying?

i hope i interpreted that correctly

 

[virtualted]

You are talking about a few different things in your question; I am trying to explain it as an example that comes up frequently. So if I deposit 100.00 and get a 100.00 match bonus, but win on my very first hand before ever using the bonus money shouldn't I get full cash out and have no conditions if I just have casino remove the bonus or on the other hand I loose all of the bonus and am down to my last 1.00 and than hit shouldn't I get paid as if I never used a bonus because it was all ready lost. These are the same bonus problems come up everyday in every casino. Why do you think that the consensus
of the board is that you should not take bonuses. But sorry to say bonuses are part of the industry and will be here for awhile. I am not saying bonuses are bad, look at bethug earlier who is totally against bonuses and the stipulations that they carry with them, but from time to time he uses them. Look at the earlier post by Freudian, where he was honest and admits to only using bonuses when he plays and only when it puts the casino odds in his favor. So by his admission he should be winning every time he plays. So as a business that is supposed to make a profit, shouldn't we limit him in any way we can?

 

[virtualted]

ezc3m, you have the point exactly. Amandajm, if in your scenario it is obvious that you did not want a bonus than you would be entitled to your full win because you were not using a bonus. But now in your same scenario after your 14 deposit and say "I never got a bonus on my last 13 deposits can I get it now", and we give you a bonus on your dead money. The next time you do the exact same thing but this time you win on your 12 deposit, we will evoke the lifetime rule because your past history has proven that you are attempting to win with out a bonus, but when you loose you than ask for a bonus.

Here is a question I would like to throw out to the readers, a poster in this forum currently has three accounts with The Virtual Casino, and they have never deposited but have redeemed over 1500.00 in free chips in the casino. They recently redeemed a 88.00 free chip that had rules of; only for new signups and for players who have deposited 100.00 or more. If this player won, should they have been paid? To their credit they have never attempted to cash out so there was no reason for security to identify their accounts, I just want to see how people on the board feel about what the casino should do in a situation like this.

 

[bethug]

joeyl. If someone dont like the terms they dont have to play there.I even played there, cause work up 140 to 3000 could only cash out 1400, i didnt like it , but it was in the terms. And he stated it in the open.

Vegas dont give you bonus like some of these casinos, and people complain.
Casino given you free money to make real money. they have promotions like 400% if you have a small budget and want to stretch your money.

As long as the casino place it in the terms and dont change in mid term, if you play there its your fault.

 

[bethug]

Ted, not only should they not be paid, there name should go up for all to see.
You should show the info to bryan and jetset and notify all the other casinos.

I feel if a player does fraud right out, they should be blown up and as a casino.

 

[amandajm]

Damian - joeyl. If someone dont like the terms they dont have to play there.I even played there, cause work up 140 to 3000 could only cash out 1400, i didnt like it , but it was in the terms. And he stated it in the open.

Granted, does'nt mean just anything goes though. There has to be a limit.

VTED Here is a question I would like to throw out to the readers, a poster in this forum currently has three accounts with The Virtual Casino,

They should'nt have 3 accounts ~ end of story. Unless of course you gave them permission to do so, which would render the question pointless.

How about just 2 casinos? Virtual and Bonus.

 

[amandajm]

ezc3m, you have the point exactly. Amandajm, if in your scenario it is obvious that you did not want a bonus than you would be entitled to your full win because you were not using a bonus.

But now in your same scenario after your 14 deposit and say "I never got a bonus on my last 13 deposits can I get it now", and we give you a bonus on your dead money.

The next time you do the exact same thing but this time you win on your 12 deposit, we will evoke the lifetime rule because your past history has proven that you are attempting to win with out a bonus, but when you loose you than ask for a bonus.

Now frighteningly enough I understand this and I get what you are trying to achieve.

I gotta say I would not bother sir. I know people don't read the terms fully. People want to gamble, not read terms.

That said :: If you make money from it and the players know and understand how it works and like it, then who am I to argue?

 

[bethug]

joely, in vegas you have to read, the table limit, you can pick your cell phone up, one time counting cards they told me i cant go from 10 to 100.

Joely they giving you money to play with, they should have terms, even the california lotto have terms, credit card have terms, the note on your house have terms, free govement cheeze have terms.

People do open multi accounts, and they get busted and they need to be exposed.

joely do you even play?