Resolved Tradition Casino

[silcnlayc]

I would have apreciated some more nice comments in this threads, not only comments from banned players or limited bonuses players...

I was very happy with my process of withdrawal on a free chip. It was 48 hours as was stated after doc approval.

Thank you. I cannot say anything on bonuses though because I try to avoid them except for the freebies ND ones..

.

 

[uungy]

This is what really annoyed me too Chu.....the majority of my deposits were without bonuses at all. I havent checked, but its possible Im ahead at the casino.....but we all know how long thats going to last.

I mean, if the player is ahead, then how is the casino going to get its money back? Oh I know, lets remove all their promotions and make them feel like they mean nothing to you, and they will deposit more and more!!! Sheesh.

I dont actually use promos a lot these days, but its nice to have them there in case Im a bit short on funds etc......now I feel like some kind of criminal or something! Geez most of the promos were just another way to donate away with the max cashout and huge WR, but its the principle of being considered as a player whom the casino obviously doesnt want.

At least you can see thgat you wont get the bonus,, and they aren't just refusing the bonus.

You arent due a bonus by divine right! You have a choice to deposit or not.

Also you say you hardly take bonuses, so where is the issue?

 

[coxwel]

I do not have time for individual answers, so my answer will be for everybody. If you do not apreciate Tradition casino, and more, if you're banned from bonuses or if you have bad bonuses from Tradition, it's clearly better that you play at an other casino.

There is probably a difference between Tradition and the others, i do not practise the silent policy. You wanted to know, i explained to you. Not happy with my explanation? Sorry, but i do my best and if you do not like my explanation, my problem remain exactly the same with rival bonus banned players or bonus hunters.

I have regrets, by the way : players not happy make always more noise than happy players. I would have apreciated some more nice comments in this threads, not only comments from banned players or limited bonuses players...

Coxwel, sorry, but what's about your 150% match bonus, up to 250.00 deposit, 21 wagering? What's about free chips you played the 2th January? Fyi, your 150% bonus is in your accounts since one week and will expire tomorrow.

as i wrote theres one bonus left which was like before and that is the one you pointed out. yes i played a freeby some days ago as you send me via email, thx i appreciate i never said i wouldnt. and iam not an unhappy player at all ;-)

my posts were directed to your first answer and i also appreciate you beeing so honest and telling about the financial aspect. you were always honest here from the start and i played at tradition quite regular for some time as you should see. but i have stopped for longer now as i also had more luck in other casinos, thats nothing iam blaming you for.

and iam not a bonus banned player, i just pointed out that some of my bonusses at tradition changed to the bad allthough i have never had any cashouts as if this would have been the case i wouldnt be wondering as iam used to this from rival.


i can also say something positive: i had fun playing most times but unfortunately havent won so i decided to lay it down for some time.

but now after all this which was written here iam really thinking twice if and when! to deposit maybe again.

my personal feeling is just that you have changed a little and became more strict on bonusses wrs.. so if other casinos dont treat my this way iam way more likely to patronize them.

a casino should always be so professional to never make any player feel unwelcome.. doesnt matter for what reason the player decides to be unhappy about a casino and leave for some time dont punish the player better try get him back.. no personal feelings/emotions involved!

so you keep yourself always in a fair position..

just my opinion.


cheers

coxwel

 

[chuchu59]

At least you can see thgat you wont get the bonus,, and they aren't just refusing the bonus.

You arent due a bonus by divine right! You have a choice to deposit or not.

Also you say you hardly take bonuses, so where is the issue?

When there are bonuses in the cashier and they are suddenly removed it does give you a feeling of guilt. What did I do wrong? Did I take too many bonuses to deserve this? It's more a feeling of being slighted. Tradition has stated that the chances of winning are the same regardless of whether bonuses are involved. That begs the question. Why were they removed en masse so suddenly. From a business point of view this doesnt make sense. You alienate a large number of players by this act of total bonus removal. I am quite sure that this will result in a drop in the number of players regardless of whether they actually wanted to take bonuses because they will feel that their patronage is not welcomed.

Tradition should realise that, except for a few smart players, many just want more playtime. Isnt that the reason why there is a $1919 ND bonus for new players? There are many Rival casinos out there so if Tradition is so strict on bonuses why should players continue to play there. One positive would of course be the 48-hour payout but with a limited budget for most nowadays players choose their preferred casinos carefully.

My view is that Tradition does not necessarily have to listen to Rival completely and ban bonuses for every Tom, Dick and Harry. They could have done this at a slower pace and hence determine who will be the loyal players. The advantage players are unlikely to play even if there is a bonus offered if they feel that the odds are not on their side. With hindsight, wouldnt Tradition think it worthwhile to have conducted a simple survey before taking such drastic measures. I know you are the owner and must protect your profit margin but is this really the best way to do it. Maybe one who majored in marketing can give some clues.

 

[Dinahnana]

When there are bonuses in the cashier and they are suddenly removed it does give you a feeling of guilt. What did I do wrong? Did I take too many bonuses to deserve this? It's more a feeling of being slighted. Tradition has stated that the chances of winning are the same regardless of whether bonuses are involved. That begs the question. Why were they removed en masse so suddenly. From a business point of view this doesnt make sense. You alienate a large number of players by this act of total bonus removal. I am quite sure that this will result in a drop in the number of players regardless of whether they actually wanted to take bonuses because they will feel that their patronage is not welcomed.

Tradition should realise that, except for a few smart players, many just want more playtime. Isnt that the reason why there is a $1919 ND bonus for new players? There are many Rival casinos out there so if Tradition is so strict on bonuses why should players continue to play there. One positive would of course be the 48-hour payout but with a limited budget for most nowadays players choose their preferred casinos carefully.

My view is that Tradition does not necessarily have to listen to Rival completely and ban bonuses for every Tom, Dick and Harry. They could have done this at a slower pace and hence determine who will be the loyal players. The advantage players are unlikely to play even if there is a bonus offered if they feel that the odds are not on their side. With hindsight, wouldnt Tradition think it worthwhile to have conducted a simple survey before taking such drastic measures. I know you are the owner and must protect your profit margin but is this really the best way to do it. Maybe one who majored in marketing can give some clues.

Great post Chuch. As soon as I read the Tradition Casino's rep response to the thread I went ahead and got rid of it off my computer. I will never play there again. I have never won at that casino and made several deposits and no cashout. I will remain with the Rival casinos that still treat me like they want my patronage, Sloto, Ruby Royal and Vanguard and maybe Tropica since they have not bonus banned me yet.

 

[BMWSTACK]

i hate to chime in, but ive been watching this thread. I really have never liked the tone of tradition. If you look back i have had some issues with them. I am a nice guy and never liked being attacked when i never tried to attack them. I got rid of them as soon as i was having problems with the rep on here. Im glad it wasnt only me. My position is i have a hard enough time with rival support and would only play in a rival that has an accessible, fair, helpful rep on here.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I find this quite interesting. I last made a deposit without taking a bonus. At that time many bonuses were available but I decided to do without one. Okay, a day later no more promotions were available.

Funny kind of "bonus abuse" isn't it.

If a player has bonuses available, but doesn't take one, surely this is the kind of player you WANT, one prepared to mix play between sessions with a bonus, and sessions without.

Since the last deposit was WITHOUT a bonus, how the HELL could that POSSIBLY have triggered the "system" to downgrade his class to "bonus banned". This system looks SERIOUSLY flawed if it can make this kind of perverse judgement of a player. This kind of perverse judgement is also very VISIBLE to the player, and even if they often play without bonuses, they will notice that they have been DOWNGRADED, and will consider they must have done something "wrong" to earn such a class downgrade.

Now, it seems even winning WITHOUT bonuses is somehow "bonus abuse" in the eyes of Rival, resulting in the system issuing a "bonus ban".

The LAST time I saw this crazy explanation that "playing without a bonus is considered a form of bonus abuse" was in the terms and conditions of a VIRTUAL casino.

It does now look as though quite a few players will take up Tradition's advice, and play elsewhere. If they like Rival, there are STILL a few that do NOT bonus ban at the drop of a hat (or a jackpot).

Since the general aim of "bonus banning" players is to protect the finances of the casino from "bonus abusers", players who see their promos disappear are effectively being accused of being one of these "bonus abusers". Those who ARE indeed "guilty" will treat this as an "occupational hazard" and play elsewhere, but genuine players who were using bonuses in the SPIRIT they were offered will be offended by the accusation that they sought to "scam" the casino, rather than merely extend their playing time & chances of that elusive big hit. These genuine players will ALSO move on to another casino.

If Tradition is not making as much as expected, it may NOT necessarily be ONLY because of "bonus abuse", but other things that make it less attractive a venue than other casinos.

 

[Nifty29]

At least you can see thgat you wont get the bonus,, and they aren't just refusing the bonus.

You arent due a bonus by divine right! You have a choice to deposit or not.

Also you say you hardly take bonuses, so where is the issue?

Im so surprised you decided to pick my post to respond to.

I said I hardly take bonuses....I didnt say I never take them....as Chu said its nice to have the choice to begin with and a loyal player who deposits regularly should have that choice. I'm sorry you didnt take the time to read the entire thread as you would have realised its not about me wanting to take a bonus...its about having the choice. I mean, even new players get a bonus and the casino doesnt know them from a bar of soap!

Its not like I try to play blackjack or roulette with slot bonuses or anything like that to clearly attempt to cheat and take advantage.

@Vinyl....about the sudden downgrading of a lot of players even though their last deposit were without bonuses, I reckon its either one of two scenarios (both of which are stupid from a long term profitability point of view):

1. Everyone who is in a positive position with tradition was banned en masse, or

2. Tradition reverted to using the Rival-wide banning database (yes people it does exist) overnight and anyone who has been banned at another Rival has automatically been banned.

Its possible that tradition may have taken a few hits, but they havent been operating that long and it seems quite normal for this to occur with a new casino.....but the only way to get in the black and stay there is to entice those winners to give their winnings back i.e. become regular depositors and by pulling their promotions they have probably gauranteed that a whole lot of them wont be back. Im in a winning position (just) at tradition, but it is NOT due to bonuses....almost every win was from a straight deposit....but I wont be spending another cent with an outfit that thinks Im less worthy to participate in their promotions than the next person.

I mean, what to the Vegas casinos do when someone is having a winning streak??? Ban them?? Hell no! They give free suites and food and drinks and flights etc etc to entice them to return those winnings. It seems ridiculous that some online casinos do the exact opposite.

 

[tradition]

Coxwell : i think you really need to understand something. Your account has been flagged 3 weeks ago but i decided to unflagged it 2 weeks later. So you received ND and the 150% match bonus, right? But you didn't deposited since more than one month, so i cannot continue to add ND and nice match bonuses considering you didn't deposited since a long time... So, unless you used your last match bonuses, i'm affraid you won't receive new ND and you won't receive new match bonuses unless i decided to make a global offer for all players as i made yesterday by example


Chuchu59 : I think you're right, perhaps my method can seem a bit brutal, because i waited a long time hoping that tradition profit will improve but it didn't at all, so i have had to implement drastic measures for these specific classes immediately and we're making a lot of tests, hoping to find the solution about giving fun to players but without losing our money. That's exactly why i told in this thread that those measures are not definitive, and more, we're still continuying to accept some players banned from other casinos, and we're still continuying to give bonuses to some players bonus banned from other casinos. What i mean is that i'm still continuying to take more risks than most of Rival casinos, even if we made some new restrictions on some players accounts. If you know some players bonus banned from other rival, simply ask them to register in Tradition and you'll see that they won't be banned in my casino, unless they made chargeback of course

Osulle : your case is very special as i already told you by PM and remember that i made some efforts in your account even if your class brought me so many problems... Sure, i didn't have problems with your account in my casino but sometimes it's not enough. I can tell you now that i discover that the problem with your account do not depend from Tradition, it depends on an other rival casino who put your account in a sort of blacklist. If necesary, i can now tell you why, so simply send me a pm and i will explain to you what is your problem with all Rival casinos. And be sure that if 3 rival accepted to give you bonuses, it's because you have an old account with them or because these casinos didn't yet study the new Rival warnings given to all operators.

BMWSTACK : Once time again, what is your problem? Is it because i can prove that we always answer to your emails because, for sure, we kept all emails received and sent? remember : i proposed you to send you by Pm all emails received and sent, because i wanted you realize that you were wrong insisting on the fact that we didn't reply to you. But you never told me "ok, send me all emails, perhaps i'm wrong"... It's injust for my team.
More, you told you apreciate "accessible, fair, helpful rep" : you meant that i'm not! i'm affraid i'm perhaps too accessible for players and if i changed my way of work, be sure i won't spend so much time to read forums, this one and the others. If i won't, i could go to the beach instead of trying to open dialog with players and give individual answer!
So, listen, perhaps i'm a bit vivacious and i shouldn't be like this because i should be more patient due to the fact that i'm discussing with you and you're all my customers. But i'm like this and i'm affraid it won't change, i'm a bit too old now lol On an other hand, i don't want for now ask to employees to discuss with players, i prefer to do it myself because players are too importants for me. Last, I had a look in your account and your account is perfect, you have still nice match bonus deposit waiting for you and also ND bonuses...


vinylweatherman : Sorry but i'm not sure you understood the situation...I had two choices with those specific risky classes : suspend bonuses or suspend accounts. I decided to adopt the first one and for some classes i even continued to give bonuses, even if conditions seems not apreciated (30 wagering). Last, these risky classes problems are not all specifically linked to bonus abuse. It can be : bonus abuse, chargeback, duplicate local accounts, risky payments methods, bad Rival ranking, ect. Causes can be very differents but the result seems to be the same : we lost too much money with thoses classes and it deserved good players, i cannot punish good players because of risky players classes.


Nifty29 : I understand what you explained "Its possible that tradition may have taken a few hits, but they havent been operating that long and it seems quite normal for this to occur with a new casino.....but the only way to get in the black and stay there is to entice those winners to give their winnings back i.e. become regular depositors and by pulling their promotions they have probably gauranteed that a whole lot of them wont be back. Im in a winning position (just) at tradition, but it is NOT due to bonuses....almost every win was from a straight deposit...." The problem is that at the beginning i have had this reaction so i continued to give nice bonuses to these accounts but i continued to lose money more and more. So i stopped to give bonuses You spoke about landbased casinos who give fantastic gifts to winners, i know it. But do not forget that landbased casinos never offered bonuses on deposits lol More, offering a fantastic suite is the best way for be sure that the winner will stay close to the casino, exactly because this winner won't stay in his room for sure ;-) So, this is the big difference! I cannot offer to my winners to sleep close to Tradition lol But, by example, i sent champaign luxury box to our biggest players in december because i wanted to make them pleasure

 

[eu_lowroller]

Everyone who is in a positive position with tradition was banned en masse

This could be the reason, because my deposits are 150.- and my withdrawals are 175.- so there are 25.- + but they never will get more back from me, because of their bonus ban

 

[tradition]

This could be the reason, because my deposits are 150.- and my withdrawals are 175.- so there are 25.- + but they never will get more back from me, because of their bonus ban

I don't know your account but, believe me : if you have problem with your bonuses, reason is not because your account has negative amount of 25....

 

[zebedy]

I just think when you are bonus banned you can ask them to look at your account and hope to reverse the decision or move on to one you havent been banned at,with 20+ rivals casino's to choose from there is alot of choice,
ive also been banned for what seemed like winning so i just stopped depositing at that casino, but ive noticed lately the bonuses have started to come back.
so do your talking with your money and where you deposit, if they want you back as a player they can alter there decision and if they dont why do you want to play there in the first place.

And i have to give kudos to Tradition for being here and trying to be as open and honest as she has been, most casino reps would have run to the hills by now, like so many have in the past so, 10/10 for effort and your business deserve's to florish on your passion alone

where are all the other rival casino reps
(the few that do post here are not included in that statement )

 

[Nifty29]

Thank Tradition for responding, and especially for confirming publicly what we have all suspected for a long time:

Last, these risky classes problems are not all specifically linked to bonus abuse. It can be : bonus abuse, chargeback, duplicate local accounts, risky payments methods, bad Rival ranking, ect. Causes can be very differents but the result seems to be the same : we lost too much money with thoses classes and it deserved good players, i cannot punish good players because of risky players classes.

I can tell you now that i discover that the problem with your account do not depend from Tradition, it depends on an other rival casino who put your account in a sort of blacklist. If necesary, i can now tell you why, so simply send me a pm and i will explain to you what is your problem with all Rival casinos. And be sure that if 3 rival accepted to give you bonuses, it's because you have an old account with them or because these casinos didn't yet study the new Rival warnings given to all operators.

You have confirmed that Rival does indeed keep a database of EVERY Rival player registered at EVERY Rival casino.....which is bad enough IMO....but added to that EVERY player is assigned a CLASS.

A Class??? So we could, unbeknown to us, be grouped in the same 'class as 'bonus abusers' (whatever they are..??) or potential fraudsters based quite possibly on the simple fact that we might be ahead at another Rival casino or just plain lucky?? No disrespect to you Tradition, but that is a complete pile of cr*p. We all knew there was some kind of list, but this whole 'class' arrangement is, quite frankly, offensive.

What really p*sses me off is that I know for a fact I wasnt banned based on anything to do with bonuses....which only leaves me being on some kind of Rival blacklist which you have now hung your hat on. So much for treating customers based on their own merits! Yes Im ahead at present, but there is a big chance that i wouldnt have been soon....but thats not gonna happen now is it?

Now how about this 'blacklist'?? What does one have to do to get on that one?? WIN?? Geez....I am seeing this more and more that casinos dont want winners...so how are you going to get that money back?? Hope the losers lose more? What happens when some of those losers become winners??

One other thing.....whats with this 'new Rival warnings given to operators'??? What was the warning? "Look out....some people at some of our casinos are winning...get rid of them however you can!" Anyone who has any doubts that ALL Rival casinos are able to share ALL of our player information including what we win or lose and how we do it must surely be convinced now.....and must also conclude the all Rival operations are much more closely connected than Rival likes to portray.

Imagine RTG or MGS having a software-wide player database where all players were 'rated' and any time you signed up at any casino you are automatically tagged as "XYZ" type of player and ineligible for promotions etc??? Its fair enough to have a blacklist for chargebacks/fraud etc, but any other 'list' is unnecessary and is a misuse of our personal information.

The problem is that at the beginning i have had this reaction so i continued to give nice bonuses to these accounts but i continued to lose money more and more. So i stopped to give bonuses You spoke about landbased casinos who give fantastic gifts to winners, i know it. But do not forget that landbased casinos never offered bonuses on deposits lol More, offering a fantastic suite is the best way for be sure that the winner will stay close to the casino, exactly because this winner won't stay in his room for sure ;-)

I know the correlation isnt exact, and I know they dont give deposit bonuses as such, but the room and the food and the drinks and the shows etc and the comps amounts to pretty much the same thing. Its about what you SPEND, not necessarily what you LOSE.....they go out of their way to bring the winners back because they know they will win in the long run.

I think Chu said it well....there is nothing worse than logging into your account and seeing 'No Promotions Available'. Even if you werent going to use one, it makes a player feel pretty damn crook to know they are being treated worse than other players. I mean, even if there was some small deposit bonus in the cashier or whatever....at least it is something.

My play at your casino seldom involved bonuses, and yet as a result of taking a huge step backward (IMO) by invoking Rivals 'class' system you lost me as a player...a more-or-less straight up depositing player who happens to be ahead at the moment.

If anyone can explain the sense of any of this, Im all ears.

 

[eu_lowroller]

if you have problem with your bonuses, reason is not because your account has negative amount of 25....

oh and what#s exactly the reason?

i won these 125.- from the ND bonus and after that all was fine.

i made 4 deposits with 25.- and now after christmas i get bonus banned, although i never did anything *lol*

but i don't care, because i've uninstalled your casino and all is now good for me, because there are much better another places, which like also my money and pay out even within 24 hours

 

[Dinahnana]

Coxwell :

Osulle : your case is very special as i already told you by PM and remember that i made some efforts in your account even if your class brought me so many problems... Sure, i didn't have problems with your account in my casino but sometimes it's not enough. I can tell you now that i discover that the problem with your account do not depend from Tradition, it depends on an other rival casino who put your account in a sort of blacklist. If necesary, i can now tell you why, so simply send me a pm and i will explain to you what is your problem with all Rival casinos. And be sure that if 3 rival accepted to give you bonuses, it's because you have an old account with them or because these casinos didn't yet study the new Rival warnings given to all operators.

I have spent enough time on this subject already I am done. BTW "my very special situation" has been resolved satisfactorily so I do not need further information regarding this. Also I have more than 3 Rival casino accounts I but I will only be keeping the accredited ones on my computer from now on since I found them to be fair.

 

[gloria460]

You know I've never seen an owner of a casino come in here and try to be helpful and explain everything as Tradition has done. No matter what she says she's getting hit by most of you and getting it on the back end from rival. You guys wanted transparency and she's trying to give you that and adjust your account manually.

MCG gives crap ass bonuses and RTG isn't much better and we all know that. So why all the hostility to someone who is trying to build her player base and at the same time to not go broke? You guys already knew Rival shared information on players so why act like it's a big surprise. Sloto even has access to this as I suspect most online casinos do but it's not widely publicized.

It's no wonder most of the reps on here have stopped posting bc it really doesn't matter what they.

 

[Pinababy69]

You know I've never seen an owner of a casino come in here and try to be helpful and explain everything as Tradition has done. No matter what she says she's getting hit by most of you and getting it on the back end from rival. You guys wanted transparency and she's trying to give you that and adjust your account manually.

MCG gives crap ass bonuses and RTG isn't much better and we all know that. So why all the hostility to someone who is trying to build her player base and at the same time to not go broke? You guys already knew Rival shared information on players so why act like it's a big surprise. Sloto even has access to this as I suspect most online casinos do but it's not widely publicized.

It's no wonder most of the reps on here have stopped posting bc it really doesn't matter what they.

I gotta agree with that to a point Gloria. If anything, I'd say the Tradition rep is being TOO honest, lol. I loathe Rival in general, and wouldn't play there if they were the last casinos on earth. But....I don't think the problem with this specific casino is the rep...it's Rival itself, and their bizarre way of doing business. And the fact that they're not independently owned and operated, but merely white label operations (for the most part).

This is exactly the type of thing that I expected would happen back when Playshare went down the white label road a couple years back. It hasn't happened with them....but this thread (and all the other Rival ones) certainly highlight how a badly run white label business can go pear shaped. I sense that the player's dissatisfaction is with Rival in general....but because Tradition Casino is here posting...she is taking the brunt of it.

 

[chuchu59]

I doubt many of the posters are trying to be hostile to Tradition and actually it is an understandable backlash from disgruntled players who suddenly feel guilty that bonuses are being removed from their accounts.

However, let's focus on something else. A solid player base needs time to build and I would say only about 20-30% of new players will actually stay the distance to become loyal players. The en masse removal of bonuses from so many players' accounts is likely imo to destroy this foundation. Furthermore, this act may spread like wildfire and deter potential players from signing up. So let's do a simple survey Tradition. One month after the bonus removal take stock of how many of these players actually came back and deposited (without bonuses of course) and how many new players signed up. Compare this with the previous 2 months and determine whether the casino is better or worse off, both in terms of profitability and a solid player base.

One other thing you can try is to email all the bonus-banned with a single promo and state that you treasure their patronage. This will take some heat off you and bring back some player loyalty. I understand your frustration especially when it's your business and from what I have read, you may have lost money every month since the casino's inception but it will only be normal that a casino loses money on the sign-up bonuses. In time, the loyal players will patronise the casino with mixtures of bonus-free deposits and bonus-laden deposits. Find the right mix eg % match for bonuses and WRs. Vegas Regal, for example, has promo WRs that are near impossible to meet yet they are doing pretty well. In fact, sometimnes the cashier has more than a dozen promos. Sometimes I take one or two of these in the full understanding that I wont be able to cashout. But who cares when it is a 400%-500% bonus giving you hours of entertainment for only $25.

Finally, I just want to say that most of us here are not trying to take advantage of the situation and extract bonuses from you. We are simply echoing our sentiments. You made a great start and then did the right thing in having 48 hour cashouts. We dont want a good outfit go down the drain and hence we are voicing our opinions. One more thing I want to get off my chest. Casino reps who post in here are expected to be able to answer some tough questions. As long as the those who field questions are being civil I hope that reps will not take it the wrong way and shy away from answering. Time and again, I read something along the lines that reps refrain from posting because many posters are being too hostile. They want feedback and many of us are being honest about it. How else could we put our message accross. Thanks for taking time to read the lengthy post guys.

 

[gloria460]

I gotta agree with that to a point Gloria. If anything, I'd say the Tradition rep is being TOO honest, lol. I loathe Rival in general, and wouldn't play there if they were the last casinos on earth. But....I don't think the problem with this specific casino is the rep...it's Rival itself, and their bizarre way of doing business. And the fact that they're not independently owned and operated, but merely white label operations (for the most part).

This is exactly the type of thing that I expected would happen back when Playshare went down the white label road a couple years back. It hasn't happened with them....but this thread (and all the other Rival ones) certainly highlight how a badly run white label business can go pear shaped. I sense that the player's dissatisfaction is with Rival in general....but because Tradition Casino is here posting...she is taking the brunt of it.

Pina now I see why you said in another thread you wouldn't play in rival if it was the last casino. I assume that all of them are owned by a person or group that gives out franchises and the owner has some leeway but has to mainly stick to the rival platform.

They share information about you to all the casinos that you have rival accounts with. I knew to a certain degree that they shared but didn't think that they were all owned by the same people. I think I better go back to Sloto..at least hopefully they're independent. I wonder how Sloto got around this?

Thanks for a better understanding of what a white label is and how it works.

 

[oldtrvlagt]

We all vent from time to time...that helps to keep us sane. When we feel we are being ignored, and in our mind, have done nothing wrong, but no one listens we tend to go public to see if there is anyone else out there that has experienced the same lack of response. There are a few reps on here that understand this and answer with civility, they don't tell us to go somewhere else, they don't chastise us for being vocal, they do something positive. Nicholas Johnson is one of them. A few more could take a page out of his "how to treat a potential client" book , read it and memorize it. These reps are trying to sell us something....it's up to them to come through with the "warranty" so to speak....not turn on the customers. To be in sales you need a thick skin, patience, empathy, and know enough not to make promises you cannot keep. To coin a phrase "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen"....the ones still in the kitchen are the ones that will make it.

 

[gloria460]

There's also a phrase that we all deserve the same amount of respect as the next human being. She could have used a little more tact in dealing with some of the responses but what makes a player think that they can say anything they want to and get away with it. That's one of the main reasons I would never be in customer service bc the customer is not always right.

 

[Dinahnana]

There's also a phrase that we all deserve the same amount of respect as the next human being. She could have used a little more tact in dealing with some of the responses but what makes a player think that they can say anything they want to and get away with it. That's one of the main reasons I would never be in customer service bc the customer is not always right.

Gloria you hit the nail on the head. Its not so much the message but how it was delivered. Good customer service is not rocket science and there are always better way to say things.

I read the posts and felt insulted and offended by the tone since we all know about those secret lists that determine how customers get treated.
Its kinda like saying we will take your money no problem at all but don't expect a smile or a thanks in the checkout line. Service like that makes me go elsewhere whenever I encounter it.
You said it Gloria, if we all wanted to be treated like human beings. I am sure the problem with Rival belongs with the home company but come on Slotocash is independant and they know how to treat people. So does Ruby Royal. All customers are entitled to be treated with respect and I think maybe that is why so many posters are negative in this thread. They feel that Rival is lacking respect for its customers. Just my opinion.

 

[Dinahnana]

We all vent from time to time...that helps to keep us sane. When we feel we are being ignored, and in our mind, have done nothing wrong, but no one listens we tend to go public to see if there is anyone else out there that has experienced the same lack of response. There are a few reps on here that understand this and answer with civility, they don't tell us to go somewhere else, they don't chastise us for being vocal, they do something positive. Nicholas Johnson is one of them. A few more could take a page out of his "how to treat a potential client" book , read it and memorize it. These reps are trying to sell us something....it's up to them to come through with the "warranty" so to speak....not turn on the customers. To be in sales you need a thick skin, patience, empathy, and know enough not to make promises you cannot keep. To coin a phrase "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen"....the ones still in the kitchen are the ones that will make it.

I agree Nicholas Johanson is always tactful and pleasant in his posts.

 

[clj7221]

I agree Nicholas Johanson is always tactful and pleasant in his posts.

To bad we don't have awards to give out for the best Rep. If we did, Nicolas Johnson would certainly get my vote. This Gentleman is so kind, possitive just a darling person. I have never won anything at his Casino, and I hardly take any bonuses they have because most of them make it impossible to win. But who cares, just having Nicolas as a rep alone, is worth playing at his casino.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Coxwell : i think you really need to understand something. Your account has been flagged 3 weeks ago but i decided to unflagged it 2 weeks later. So you received ND and the 150% match bonus, right? But you didn't deposited since more than one month, so i cannot continue to add ND and nice match bonuses considering you didn't deposited since a long time... So, unless you used your last match bonuses, i'm affraid you won't receive new ND and you won't receive new match bonuses unless i decided to make a global offer for all players as i made yesterday by example


Chuchu59 : I think you're right, perhaps my method can seem a bit brutal, because i waited a long time hoping that tradition profit will improve but it didn't at all, so i have had to implement drastic measures for these specific classes immediately and we're making a lot of tests, hoping to find the solution about giving fun to players but without losing our money. That's exactly why i told in this thread that those measures are not definitive, and more, we're still continuying to accept some players banned from other casinos, and we're still continuying to give bonuses to some players bonus banned from other casinos. What i mean is that i'm still continuying to take more risks than most of Rival casinos, even if we made some new restrictions on some players accounts. If you know some players bonus banned from other rival, simply ask them to register in Tradition and you'll see that they won't be banned in my casino, unless they made chargeback of course

Osulle : your case is very special as i already told you by PM and remember that i made some efforts in your account even if your class brought me so many problems... Sure, i didn't have problems with your account in my casino but sometimes it's not enough. I can tell you now that i discover that the problem with your account do not depend from Tradition, it depends on an other rival casino who put your account in a sort of blacklist. If necesary, i can now tell you why, so simply send me a pm and i will explain to you what is your problem with all Rival casinos. And be sure that if 3 rival accepted to give you bonuses, it's because you have an old account with them or because these casinos didn't yet study the new Rival warnings given to all operators.

BMWSTACK : Once time again, what is your problem? Is it because i can prove that we always answer to your emails because, for sure, we kept all emails received and sent? remember : i proposed you to send you by Pm all emails received and sent, because i wanted you realize that you were wrong insisting on the fact that we didn't reply to you. But you never told me "ok, send me all emails, perhaps i'm wrong"... It's injust for my team.
More, you told you apreciate "accessible, fair, helpful rep" : you meant that i'm not! i'm affraid i'm perhaps too accessible for players and if i changed my way of work, be sure i won't spend so much time to read forums, this one and the others. If i won't, i could go to the beach instead of trying to open dialog with players and give individual answer!
So, listen, perhaps i'm a bit vivacious and i shouldn't be like this because i should be more patient due to the fact that i'm discussing with you and you're all my customers. But i'm like this and i'm affraid it won't change, i'm a bit too old now lol On an other hand, i don't want for now ask to employees to discuss with players, i prefer to do it myself because players are too importants for me. Last, I had a look in your account and your account is perfect, you have still nice match bonus deposit waiting for you and also ND bonuses...


vinylweatherman : Sorry but i'm not sure you understood the situation...I had two choices with those specific risky classes : suspend bonuses or suspend accounts. I decided to adopt the first one and for some classes i even continued to give bonuses, even if conditions seems not apreciated (30 wagering). Last, these risky classes problems are not all specifically linked to bonus abuse. It can be : bonus abuse, chargeback, duplicate local accounts, risky payments methods, bad Rival ranking, ect. Causes can be very differents but the result seems to be the same : we lost too much money with thoses classes and it deserved good players, i cannot punish good players because of risky players classes.


Nifty29 : I understand what you explained "Its possible that tradition may have taken a few hits, but they havent been operating that long and it seems quite normal for this to occur with a new casino.....but the only way to get in the black and stay there is to entice those winners to give their winnings back i.e. become regular depositors and by pulling their promotions they have probably gauranteed that a whole lot of them wont be back. Im in a winning position (just) at tradition, but it is NOT due to bonuses....almost every win was from a straight deposit...." The problem is that at the beginning i have had this reaction so i continued to give nice bonuses to these accounts but i continued to lose money more and more. So i stopped to give bonuses You spoke about landbased casinos who give fantastic gifts to winners, i know it. But do not forget that landbased casinos never offered bonuses on deposits lol More, offering a fantastic suite is the best way for be sure that the winner will stay close to the casino, exactly because this winner won't stay in his room for sure ;-) So, this is the big difference! I cannot offer to my winners to sleep close to Tradition lol But, by example, i sent champaign luxury box to our biggest players in december because i wanted to make them pleasure

Coxwell is now in "catch22". he had promos, but now they have gone. maybe he was waiting to have enough money, but when he did, the promos were not there. Now YOU won't put them back till he deposits, but HE is waiting for them to come back and THEN he might deposit. Neither side moves, but pretty soon Coxwell will start looking elsewhere.

The "bonus abuse" class seems to include ALL players who have won, and has nothing much to do with "abusive" manipulation of bonuses. It is even evident that players who have deposited without a bonus, but then won enough to go positive at Rival, get put into a "bonus banned" class. It can be for nothing other than making that win, from their own money.

You admit that a player whose account gave you no problems whatsoever had to be "bonus banned" because a DIFFERENT Rival casino had previously had a "problem" with their account. This simply should not matter to you UNLESS it was related to FRAUD, and you feared you were simply being set up for the "take down" by the good behaviour.

Bonus banning for "risky payment methods" is complete bullshit, if a payment method is risky, you stand to lose even if you DON'T offer players a bonus. The proper response would be to stop accepting that particular payment method until the risks were under control.
The fact that Rival caters to AMERICAN players means that it is CHIEFLY "risky payment methods" that will be used, and there is NOTHING the player can do about it, since it is ILLEGAL for an American based procesor to have any part in the transactions, so they have to be conducted "offshore", and by secretive outfits.

What we really want to know is what Rival MEAN by "bonus abuse", it certainly isn't something in the terms and conditions, so that players can check in advance what Rival expects them to do in relation to the bonus system. So far, despite what has been said, it seems the MAIN definition Rival use is "player has won overall", and even if it's a player who rarely takes a bonus, they are banned from them anyway.

For someone who has never played at any Rival, this sends out the message that once I win, I will be treated like dirt by the "class" system. This could happen right away, or it could happen after many years of loyalty to the brand after getting an incredibly lucky streak.