Resolved Tradition Casino

[eu_lowroller]

I'm too bonus banned since 2 or 3 weeks although i never could cash out anything there and lost a lots of deposits!

Bye forever

 

[Balky]

The Rival strategy is strange and I cant understand it. If the promotions offered by them are properly calculated, then there is absolutely no reason to bonus ban any player, regardless of his/her winnings. How else do they think to win the money back from players that are well ahead? Do they expect from the players to play Scary Rich or Jacques Pot without a bonus? Except of two independent sites Box24 and Slotocash the only casino in the Bonne Chance group left for me is Tropica.

Cheers Balky

 

[uungy]

Sounds like I am the only one not bonus banned here. Well in all honesty, I havent opened an account with them yet. I think I will leave it that way, so I can wear my badge "Not banned by Tradition Casino"

 

[KasinoKing]

Interesting! I received a $5 chip with 99x playthrough and decided....why not? Figured might as well give it a shot for shi*s and giggles.....Amazing! I made the playthrough of 99x and withdrew the maximum of $200 plus the $5 they want back.

Well that is pretty amazing, especially since you keep telling us that all the casinos have dramatically lowered their slots payout so you can never win...
(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

Well done - great result!
KK

 

[Dinahnana]

Well Ive joined the bonus banned

Ive contacted the rep and CS and they both said 'no way jose''.

Oh well....its uninstalled now and Ill stick to Sloto and Royal Apollo who always look after me.

I too have joined the rather large pile of bonus banned players. I will now be getting my Rival fix at Slotocash and Tropica and maybe a little Ruby Royal from time to time. The vast majority of Rival casinos seriously need to get their act together and stop with these games. You are bonus eligible one week so you deposit play and mostly bust out and then the next poof it goes away and as far as the casino is concerned its no can do with the bonuses. I say see ya later!

 

[zebedy]

The Rival strategy is strange and I cant understand it. If the promotions offered by them are properly calculated, then there is absolutely no reason to bonus ban any player, regardless of his/her winnings. How else do they think to win the money back from players that are well ahead? Do they expect from the players to play Scary Rich or Jacques Pot without a bonus? Except of two independent sites Box24 and Slotocash the only casino in the Bonne Chance group left for me is Tropica.

Cheers Balky

With all the bonus banning i just have a gut feeling it because of the funding a casino has behind them. basically not much, as to start a rival casino you dont need that much,
recently i won 50 off a free chip, reversed it was allowed to take another bonus and cashed out 1200, so i expect there are more people that are doing this so the casino is trying to cover itself especially against the smaller depositers, When i do get bonus banned it feels abit like a FU but i suppose the casino has to try and cover itself against going bankrupt somehow,

 

[dcpam39]

Agree with you completely Zebedy. I also think that the bonuses at Tradition had extremely nice terms in the beginning, and perhaps a lot of people won--i know that i did. Then they went to having very, very high wagering requirements for all of their bonuses.
I am also bonus banned, which doesn't really matter to me so much, however, i have not been able to hit many features in my last few deposits, and this does matter to me. So I have also uninstalled for now,
Pam

 

[eu_lowroller]

I have also uninstalled for now,
Pam

The best decision you could make

 

[coxwel]

after many experience with rival it also confuses me for what reasons they bonusban or reactiveate you whatever.

as tradition showed up i was bonusbanned after signup. caroline was very kind fixed everything for me. i made in total 5 deposits, no cashout. now i see my wagerings and restrictions on bonusses has become worse??
i thought they would be so flexible and act in players favour. but i guess the good start has changed to business at usual like the other rivals do.


caroline i hope you show up here and clarify.

now my experience with sloto, iam nearly 1000 ahead with them. they were always the fastest to pay me, never bonus banned me my wagering is still 15times on my monthly vip match. so why can they do and any other rival punishes you for even cashing out on a freeby.

at least all the bonnechance outfits shouldnt act in the favour oh yeahh we are all different casinos blabla.. but fe. i cashout on dendera and my bonusses vanish or get crazy wagering on another rival?
they should be so honest and tell you. i asked livechat about this once but they seem not to like it if you know that in general theyre all under one roof and its just all partner outfits. why? anything to hide?

if i conclude all my rival experience my money will only go to sloto and box24 nad rubyroyal in the future as they pay quicker and dodnt take part in this rival backend banning.

iam really fed up with this. another example: for some time i was bonus banned at every bonne chance outfit due to a cashout ;-)

i wrote emails to each asking for manually review and enable me again, as i was banned from casinos where i never ever deposited?
answer was no. all answers were the same form same words, all send from the same support ;-). few weeks later after i feeded some bonnechance rivals with deposits i get an email of pantasia and simon says inviting me with nd deposit chip and saying weare happy to bonus enable you from now? aha

so i guess they have a percentage on every player including deposits, freebies, cashouts and have some kind of formula which either tells youre an abuser because you win, or a cash cow ti milk.
this system betrays itself imho, just read between the lines ;-)

now the opposite: i was also banned on rubyroyal. the rep here enabled me again and issued me good bonusses. i contacted the manager because of the unusual high wagering displayed on my bonusses in the cashier. she said its due to iam from germany but if i wanna take a bonus i should tell her and she will lower the wr manually each time.
isnt that great? so at least this shows every operator has kind of freedom to handle these issues.

ok enough explaining/whining ;-), but i had to shout this out.

from now on i stick to 3 rivals.



cheers

coxwel

 

[Nifty29]

You gotta love this email I just received.

Talk about add insult to injury....

Dear Tim,



Tradition Casino would like to inform you that you have a balance of $0.02 remaining.

Your username is : <pointless>

Don't forget about our Loyalty Club promotions with which you can get some bonuses every day : Tradition Promotions! Prior to depositing, claim your promotion by entering the casino cashier and clicking on the bonus.

By referring your friends, they will receive $30 free on signup, and you will receive $50 free. Claim now the Refer a Friend promotion!

If you lost your password, just launch the Tradition Casino's software and click on Forgot your password? Reset your password.

Should you require any assistance, please contact us at anytime : [email protected]. Live help is also standing by should you have any inquires

Caroline Bertin

Thanks for that Tradition!

Ill just go and enjoy some of those promotions you are telling me about that I cant claim.

Very professional.

 

[coxwel]

You gotta love this email I just received.

Talk about add insult to injury....



Thanks for that Tradition!

Ill just go and enjoy some of those promotions you are telling me about that I cant claim.

Very professional.

got the same today, i guess it should remind you of depositing at this great place again. thx for making me aware my balance is zero. it will stay until they get their act together..


cheers

coxwel

 

[silcnlayc]

KasinoKing:Well that is pretty amazing, especially since you keep telling us that all the casinos have dramatically lowered their slots payout so you can never win...
(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

Well done - great result!
KK

I haven't been paid yet so I am not partying quite yet.....Never said never..I said...less....but I know what you are implying..and it is ok..I do not mind tongue in cheek either.....

I have said to keep an eye out on the winners screenshot board because it will be filling up on with winners on another thread since all the discussions of bad "changes" with the casinos..and I do feel they will be loosening up some to make it look good..and it actually is happening...(I feel like a newsreporter!!) because since I said that ..the screenies are flying in!! (check the post)..

Could it be coincidence?? For the naysayers..it will never be..just another fluke in predictions ...and nothing to do with "knowing"...


.

 

[chuchu59]

Hopefully, the next thing I hope wont be happening is the cancellation of the 48-hour payouts. I initiated a withdrawal on 31 Dec but it's still not in my ecocard account. Maybe it's 48 business hours so I am still waiting.

 

[Dinahnana]

after many experience with rival it also confuses me for what reasons they bonusban or reactiveate you whatever.

as tradition showed up i was bonusbanned after signup. caroline was very kind fixed everything for me. i made in total 5 deposits, no cashout. now i see my wagerings and restrictions on bonusses has become worse??
i thought they would be so flexible and act in players favour. but i guess the good start has changed to business at usual like the other rivals do.


caroline i hope you show up here and clarify.

now my experience with sloto, iam nearly 1000 ahead with them. they were always the fastest to pay me, never bonus banned me my wagering is still 15times on my monthly vip match. so why can they do and any other rival punishes you for even cashing out on a freeby.

at least all the bonnechance outfits shouldnt act in the favour oh yeahh we are all different casinos blabla.. but fe. i cashout on dendera and my bonusses vanish or get crazy wagering on another rival?
they should be so honest and tell you. i asked livechat about this once but they seem not to like it if you know that in general theyre all under one roof and its just all partner outfits. why? anything to hide?

if i conclude all my rival experience my money will only go to sloto and box24 nad rubyroyal in the future as they pay quicker and dodnt take part in this rival backend banning.

iam really fed up with this. another example: for some time i was bonus banned at every bonne chance outfit due to a cashout ;-)

i wrote emails to each asking for manually review and enable me again, as i was banned from casinos where i never ever deposited?
answer was no. all answers were the same form same words, all send from the same support ;-). few weeks later after i feeded some bonnechance rivals with deposits i get an email of pantasia and simon says inviting me with nd deposit chip and saying weare happy to bonus enable you from now? aha

so i guess they have a percentage on every player including deposits, freebies, cashouts and have some kind of formula which either tells youre an abuser because you win, or a cash cow ti milk.
this system betrays itself imho, just read between the lines ;-)

now the opposite: i was also banned on rubyroyal. the rep here enabled me again and issued me good bonusses. i contacted the manager because of the unusual high wagering displayed on my bonusses in the cashier. she said its due to iam from germany but if i wanna take a bonus i should tell her and she will lower the wr manually each time.
isnt that great? so at least this shows every operator has kind of freedom to handle these issues.

ok enough explaining/whining ;-), but i had to shout this out.

from now on i stick to 3 rivals.



cheers

coxwel

Great post Coxwel very insightful. You know I too am only gonna be sticking with a couple of Rivals from now on Sloto being one, Ruby Royal another and Tropica. At least these places are honest and I have cashed out at Tropica a few times and I still have decent bonuses yeah. I just think that Rival casinos for the most part are very badly run. This to me is funny since they are mostly owned by one or two companies and should have running a casino down to a fine art by now. They lose more customers than they gain because who wants to play at a casino where they are not treated well? I also keep thinking bonus banning is really stupid because you are less likely to cashout on a bonus because of wagering requirements.

 

[coxwel]

thx for your appreciation.

youre totally right if these bonus bans wouldnt have took place i would have deposited far more. but the rivals seem to have missed that point. as casinos banned me which i never deposited its even more confusing

another example from the past days which ensured me in sticking to my 3 selected from now on.

i took a nice bonus on dendera, deposit 25 get 50. 15times wagering bonus not cashable. sofar so good. i completed the wr ( also have posted the winner scrennies) put in my wd, livechat flushed it like usual for on rival. never had any cashout problem before. 24h after the withdrawal has been flushed, so reverse should be 100% impossible i received an email from dendera claiming thx coxwel your reversal of funds has been completed feel free to make further transactions now. i got very nervous went to my account and my withdrawal was in my account again, bonus already deducted.
i asked livechat what happened, they didnt know. i was promised accountings will look into it and contact me soon. i made the request for th 2nd time had it flushed again.
24h after, surprise surprise, i got same reversal of funds email. my upsetness level became higher went to livechat again. only bogus answers accountings will be notified we have no clue what happned. the guy semmed like he did everything to not understand my issue. after 10mins of explaining he said ok sir so you want to reverse your cashout right? thats where i went nearly crazy. just imagine a flushed withdrawal can not!! be reversed by myself, only by the operator or the rival system.
so i asked for the supervisor as i thought they wanna give me the runaround, supervisor is nathan. some of you should know him. hes supervisor for all rival support.
sofar so good after i put in wd for the 3rd time and he flushed it i told him if it bumps back tomorrow again i go one step further as this is not acceptable at all.
after some more days and 5days waiting for the cashout i received it yesterday night.

thanks to nathan again, he was the only compatible guy there who understood my issue. wasnt so complicated, anyway

the strange thing was, after the second mystery reversal i also sent an email clearly adressed in caps to dendera management! who answers, nathan. this shows even more how everything is done under one roof. i also told nathan i really appreciate his effort but if i adress amnagement i dont want answer from support supervisor just besides...

my promo also included a 50nd completion chip which never appeared. nathan fixed that for me and also apologized and said this whole situation wouldnt be acceptable anymore. he stood to his word. thats the only good thing/guy i ever experienced there.

also all my bonusses on dendera are crap now.

what i think is: i was ahead at dendera before this promotion already. i win for the 2nd time 400$ from 25$ deposit. maybe these starnge reversals were a desperate try to encourage me to play it back. they maybe didnt know iam wrong guy to give the run around as i know from several rival cashouts how it goes normally. maybe it was also just a glitch but till today nobody also not nathan could or wanted to explain me why these reversals took place??

i mean it costed me 3 days more waiting for my wd, much hassle explaining and i guess if i wouldnt have reminded nathan on regular basis about my issue i would still be waiting.
its my free money and got reversed by anybody? not very professional or trustful. at first i was shocked though a hacker cracked my account and did some bad things with my money..


this showed me iam not appreciated or welcome for these rivals, dont open casinos if you dont like winners. all i can add to this. i was lucky... but i guess that was my fault..


anyway... this system stinks in parts and they can tell what they want.. its one enterprise controlling the whole thing. too many proofs for this already public...

good though sloto fe is the total opposite. no hassle never, i had to write thank you emails after each withdrawal as i was so stunned about the lightning fast service.

ps: ricardodendera, the rep here on board never answered to my emails and pms. another red flag for me... at the lauch of the casino he was always on board, now he has nearly vanished...

hmm...


cheers


coxwel

 

[tradition]

after many experience with rival it also confuses me for what reasons they bonusban or reactiveate you whatever.

as tradition showed up i was bonusbanned after signup. caroline was very kind fixed everything for me. i made in total 5 deposits, no cashout. now i see my wagerings and restrictions on bonusses has become worse??
i thought they would be so flexible and act in players favour. but i guess the good start has changed to business at usual like the other rivals do.


caroline i hope you show up here and clarify.

coxwel

Coxwell your account didn't receive nice bonuses at the end of December because of many changes we did on all accounts. Btw, since one week your account has very nice bonuses, i took care of it so perhaps it will be good you have a look inside But, please understand that you have to deposit more if you want to reach an interesting VIP level..

Some of you contacted me by pm, but unfortunately, i cannot find solutions for everybody and i'm really sorry for this... Most of you only complained here but didn't contact me so i cannot investigate accounts.

Rival has a very hard policy with players and i try to manage each account about finding best solution.

I'd simply like to remember you that Tradition Casino use to accept players who cannot play in Rival casinos. More, we are giving bonuses to players who usually cannot get any bonuses in Rival casinos and we will continue.

But, I'm not slotocash, unfortunatelly. I do not have a long history with your accounts, so i have to manage with Rival system and my own feeling. On past months, we have had too many winnings compared to deposits made and the goal for me is to win money, please do not forget it.

So now, i'm trying to find the best balance i can, i do not want to ban faithful players, but i do not want open my wallet with high risk players and then having fraud, chargeback or incredible winnings at the expense of my faithful players. And thanks in advance : do not think that you're an isolate case, you can be in a class and never won in Tradition but if 90% of players in the same class than you have won 100 times more they deposited, i'm sure you can understand that unfortunately i will take some time to take off your account from this class...

Some players are very talented about deposit $25 or $50 and cashout $2000 or more, so i couldn't continue to fully ignore the warnings from Rival. That's why I decided to take in consideration some aspects and made some changes. These changes are currently in move, so its not definitive, that's why, as Coxwel, your account can received low bonuses or be banned from bonuses, then receive nice bonuses later. But, for sure, if you decide to stop to play because you received not interesting bonuses, or no bonuses at all, the account will remain the same and situation won't improve for sure.

I'de like to add also that with bonuses or not, you have exactly the same chance to win. Our machines are fair and our machines cannot decide that you will win with bonuses and will lose without bonuses played. But the goal in a casino is that players play with their money first, not only with money from casino, it's logical.

I hope that everybody understood what i'm trying to explain you Never hesitate to contact me personally.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Coxwell your account didn't receive nice bonuses at the end of December because of many changes we did on all accounts. Btw, since one week your account has very nice bonuses, i took care of it so perhaps it will be good you have a look inside But, please understand that you have to deposit more if you want to reach an interesting VIP level..

Some of you contacted me by pm, but unfortunately, i cannot find solutions for everybody and i'm really sorry for this... Most of you only complained here but didn't contact me so i cannot investigate accounts.

Rival has a very hard policy with players and i try to manage each account about finding best solution.

I'd simply like to remember you that Tradition Casino use to accept players who cannot play in Rival casinos. More, we are giving bonuses to players who usually cannot get any bonuses in Rival casinos and we will continue.

But, I'm not slotocash, unfortunatelly. I do not have a long history with your accounts, so i have to manage with Rival system and my own feeling. On past months, we have had too many winnings compared to deposits made and the goal for me is to win money, please do not forget it.

So now, i'm trying to find the best balance i can, i do not want to ban faithful players, but i do not want open my wallet with high risk players and then having fraud, chargeback or incredible winnings at the expense of my faithful players. And thanks in advance : do not think that you're an isolate case, i'm sure you can understand that unfortunately i will take some time to take off your account from this class...

Some players are very talented about deposit $25 or $50 and cashout $2000 or more, so i couldn't continue to fully ignore the warnings from Rival. That's why I decided to take in consideration some aspects and made some changes. These changes are currently in move, so its not definitive, that's why, as Coxwel, your account can received low bonuses or be banned from bonuses, then receive nice bonuses later. But, for sure, if you decide to stop to play because you received not interesting bonuses, or no bonuses at all, the account will remain the same and situation won't improve for sure.

I'de like to add also that with bonuses or not, you have exactly the same chance to win. Our machines are fair and our machines cannot decide that you will win with bonuses and will lose without bonuses played. But the goal in a casino is that players play with their money first, not only with money from casino, it's logical.

I hope that everybody understood what i'm trying to explain you Never hesitate to contact me personally.

In short, players ARE getting "bonus banned" merely for WINNING. As for "class", where you say "you can be in a class and never won in Tradition but if 90% of players in the same class than you have won 100 times more they deposited", how on earth can you determine a player's "class" if you have no history of them having ever cashed out. Surely the ratio is zero or infinity, since cashouts=0. Mathematically, a ratio based on either a zero numerator or denominator is a fantasy.
Further, if "Our machines are fair and our machines cannot decide that you will win with bonuses and will lose without bonuses played.", then 90% of players in a class simply should NOT be winning so consistently as to be able to withdraw 100x their deposits.

The REAL problem is the sheer proliferation of Rival casinos, all PRETENDING to be independent, but all REALLY run by Bonne Chance, and Silverstone, apart from a VERY small number of independent ones like Sloto. This means that Bonne Chance are losing out because they are using deceptive marketing practices. They have a large number of "pretend independent" casinos in order to market to every possible niche, but the "talented" players do not belong to any particular niche, and will seek to play at EVERY casino with favourable terms and offers.

Rival could fix this by being HONEST about the fact that it is all one big group of sister casinos run by a single company, and limit each bonus to "one account across all our sister casinos", so if a player takes their $50 ND chip in one, it vanishes from all the others, but you do NOT get to the point where players get lavish offers one week, and are COMPLETELY banned the next.

Further, players should NOT be "bonus banned" simply because they have won on their last outing, which seems to be what is happening. Having a win on a session is pure LUCK, following sessions (and their offers) encourage winning players to come back for more, and they are more likely to lose some of the money back, rather than be spectacularly lucky again.

The safest bonuses of all to offer are SLOTS ONLY, as there is no way to play with "perfect strategy" as you might with the table games, you simply spin, and pray you get lucky. With their 5% house advantage, slots are the games that make money for the casinos.

Another thing to avoid are recurring bonuses, so that any offer is granted on ONE deposit only. This will prevent players using a bonus like 100% to $200 by making repeated $20 deposits, rather than a single $200 deposit. Depositing small & often IS a form of advantage strategy for high variance games, but only because it ensures that more of any rare big hit can be cashed out. In this respect, it could be sensible to TEMPORARILY suspend promotions for players who have just cashed out, but this seems to be happening PERMANENTLY to players who have cashed out.

 

[coxwel]

Coxwell your account didn't receive nice bonuses at the end of December because of many changes we did on all accounts. Btw, since one week your account has very nice bonuses, i took care of it so perhaps it will be good you have a look inside But, please understand that you have to deposit more if you want to reach an interesting VIP level..

Some of you contacted me by pm, but unfortunately, i cannot find solutions for everybody and i'm really sorry for this... Most of you only complained here but didn't contact me so i cannot investigate accounts.

Rival has a very hard policy with players and i try to manage each account about finding best solution.

I'd simply like to remember you that Tradition Casino use to accept players who cannot play in Rival casinos. More, we are giving bonuses to players who usually cannot get any bonuses in Rival casinos and we will continue.

But, I'm not slotocash, unfortunatelly. I do not have a long history with your accounts, so i have to manage with Rival system and my own feeling. On past months, we have had too many winnings compared to deposits made and the goal for me is to win money, please do not forget it.

So now, i'm trying to find the best balance i can, i do not want to ban faithful players, but i do not want open my wallet with high risk players and then having fraud, chargeback or incredible winnings at the expense of my faithful players. And thanks in advance : do not think that you're an isolate case, you can be in a class and never won in Tradition but if 90% of players in the same class than you have won 100 times more they deposited, i'm sure you can understand that unfortunately i will take some time to take off your account from this class...

Some players are very talented about deposit $25 or $50 and cashout $2000 or more, so i couldn't continue to fully ignore the warnings from Rival. That's why I decided to take in consideration some aspects and made some changes. These changes are currently in move, so its not definitive, that's why, as Coxwel, your account can received low bonuses or be banned from bonuses, then receive nice bonuses later. But, for sure, if you decide to stop to play because you received not interesting bonuses, or no bonuses at all, the account will remain the same and situation won't improve for sure.

I'de like to add also that with bonuses or not, you have exactly the same chance to win. Our machines are fair and our machines cannot decide that you will win with bonuses and will lose without bonuses played. But the goal in a casino is that players play with their money first, not only with money from casino, it's logical.

I hope that everybody understood what i'm trying to explain you Never hesitate to contact me personally.

Hi caroline,

thx for your reaction. i understand some of your issues. but please do not complain here you need to win money back ;-). i know you run a casino to make money, sure, there will be bad times good times...

anyway if you use this argument for my situation it doesnt fit at all.. until today i lost all my 5 deposits to you, never made any cashout at tradition. if i compare to other rivals i seem to be unluckier on tradition. but i guess my class is beeing calculated from all my rival accounts, and i have many. so i guess my class is sth with a minus, as my cashouts in bonnechance outfits are way higher than my deposits.
as i only play slots i hope you understand i always take a bonus on rival casinos. these slots can be really nice but also some days eat you up. so i dont get it if you say players should play with their own money first not with the bucks of the casino. ok then delete all bonusses if you dont want it. on ym account you see clearly your house advantage, 5 deposits all with slots match bonusses. played only slots, lost it all. so good for you bad for me but i aint complaining, i was unlucky... i can accept it...

and if you say that rival is kind of strict on these issues i really wonder what rivals business philosophy is? the players is what theyre living from, as many people already said if rival wouldnt bite itself in the ass with this stupid bannings many people would deposit far more.

if i look on my tradition account nothing has changed. your special gift bonusses which always had 17 or 18 wr have a 30wr now all non cashable. only one bonus is left which is like before.

and what you mean by iam not sloto? is it so difficult to act like them. iam sure their main goal is also to make big money but they seem to be more relaxed on everything. if it would harm them iam sure they would be different, so could you explain that? i made several good cashouts there, always from the minimum deposit. nobody ever complained to me, the opposite the service just got even better. so its my freedom of choice where to play, how much to deposit, take bonus or not. nobody should label me for that or put me in classes.
if you win on slots its 100% legit. iam no advanced skilled slotplayer. if anybody has advanced skills there would be happy to know how this works ;-)


ps: i guess in the longrun you as operator are always in blacknumbers and my personal tip would be dont make winning players feel like abusers. unfortunately this happens often in rivals. you said it yourself many times, that the rival system or backend would be inhuman!



cheers

coxwel

 

[chuchu59]

I find this quite interesting. I last made a deposit without taking a bonus. At that time many bonuses were available but I decided to do without one. Okay, a day later no more promotions were available.

 

[Dinahnana]

In short, players ARE getting "bonus banned" merely for WINNING. As for "class", where you say "you can be in a class and never won in Tradition but if 90% of players in the same class than you have won 100 times more they deposited", how on earth can you determine a player's "class" if you have no history of them having ever cashed out. Surely the ratio is zero or infinity, since cashouts=0. Mathematically, a ratio based on either a zero numerator or denominator is a fantasy.
Further, if "Our machines are fair and our machines cannot decide that you will win with bonuses and will lose without bonuses played.", then 90% of players in a class simply should NOT be winning so consistently as to be able to withdraw 100x their deposits.

The REAL problem is the sheer proliferation of Rival casinos, all PRETENDING to be independent, but all REALLY run by Bonne Chance, and Silverstone, apart from a VERY small number of independent ones like Sloto. This means that Bonne Chance are losing out because they are using deceptive marketing practices. They have a large number of "pretend independent" casinos in order to market to every possible niche, but the "talented" players do not belong to any particular niche, and will seek to play at EVERY casino with favourable terms and offers.

Rival could fix this by being HONEST about the fact that it is all one big group of sister casinos run by a single company, and limit each bonus to "one account across all our sister casinos", so if a player takes their $50 ND chip in one, it vanishes from all the others, but you do NOT get to the point where players get lavish offers one week, and are COMPLETELY banned the next.

Further, players should NOT be "bonus banned" simply because they have won on their last outing, which seems to be what is happening. Having a win on a session is pure LUCK, following sessions (and their offers) encourage winning players to come back for more, and they are more likely to lose some of the money back, rather than be spectacularly lucky again.

The safest bonuses of all to offer are SLOTS ONLY, as there is no way to play with "perfect strategy" as you might with the table games, you simply spin, and pray you get lucky. With their 5% house advantage, slots are the games that make money for the casinos.

Another thing to avoid are recurring bonuses, so that any offer is granted on ONE deposit only. This will prevent players using a bonus like 100% to $200 by making repeated $20 deposits, rather than a single $200 deposit. Depositing small & often IS a form of advantage strategy for high variance games, but only because it ensures that more of any rare big hit can be cashed out. In this respect, it could be sensible to TEMPORARILY suspend promotions for players who have just cashed out, but this seems to be happening PERMANENTLY to players who have cashed out.

Well at least you are honest. If players have the audacity to win then they will be bonus banned. I do deposit quite regularly without a deposit but sometimes using a bonus can be good. Now though since the WR's have gone nuts I will be using bonuses a lot less and am looking to uninstall most Rivals on my computer except for the accredited ones (Slotocash, Ruby Royal and Vanguard). At least there I always get a fair game even if the money sometimes goes fast so if I am gonna play without a bonus I will deposit my money there first. BTW if a player choses a bonus which is offered by the casino and happens to win then the casino should suck it up. Them's the breaks and we as players are told not to be bitter or sore when we lose so the casino should do the same don't you think?
When I read your response I went right ahead and uninstalled Tradition. I do not want to play at a casino that has that attitude and btw I have deposited there both using bonuses and no bonuses so you guys lost a customer. I have deposited at least a couple of grand at Rivals in the last month or so I am a good customer.
Anyway as a casino you are within your right to pick and chose which customers are deemed worthy enough to be treated as valued customers. We as customers also have the right to go play elsewhere and I am sure we will in droves.

 

[Dinahnana]

Hi caroline,
if you win on slots its 100% legit. iam no advanced skilled slotplayer. if anybody has advanced skills there would be happy to know how this works ;-)
coxwel

Coxwell If there was some techique to win at slots then I would like to know it too! I don't think there is such a thing really as a skilled slotplayer. I won a nice cashout at one of the Rivals becuase of doing really good on Scary Rich 2 and the only reason why that happened is I upped my bet to $10 a spin by accident (I hit max bet and thought it was $2 but thats what for slotting while drunk) Just when I saw that I was betting $10 I hit the feature. The situation was pure dumb luck in the end and there sure as heck was no skill involved since I was drunk at the time.

 

[Nifty29]

I find this quite interesting. I last made a deposit without taking a bonus. At that time many bonuses were available but I decided to do without one. Okay, a day later no more promotions were available.

This is what really annoyed me too Chu.....the majority of my deposits were without bonuses at all. I havent checked, but its possible Im ahead at the casino.....but we all know how long thats going to last.

I mean, if the player is ahead, then how is the casino going to get its money back? Oh I know, lets remove all their promotions and make them feel like they mean nothing to you, and they will deposit more and more!!! Sheesh.

I dont actually use promos a lot these days, but its nice to have them there in case Im a bit short on funds etc......now I feel like some kind of criminal or something! Geez most of the promos were just another way to donate away with the max cashout and huge WR, but its the principle of being considered as a player whom the casino obviously doesnt want.

 

[Dinahnana]

In short, players ARE getting "bonus banned" merely for WINNING. As for "class", where you say "you can be in a class and never won in Tradition but if 90% of players in the same class than you have won 100 times more they deposited", how on earth can you determine a player's "class" if you have no history of them having ever cashed out. Surely the ratio is zero or infinity, since cashouts=0. Mathematically, a ratio based on either a zero numerator or denominator is a fantasy.
Further, if "Our machines are fair and our machines cannot decide that you will win with bonuses and will lose without bonuses played.", then 90% of players in a class simply should NOT be winning so consistently as to be able to withdraw 100x their deposits.

The REAL problem is the sheer proliferation of Rival casinos, all PRETENDING to be independent, but all REALLY run by Bonne Chance, and Silverstone, apart from a VERY small number of independent ones like Sloto. This means that Bonne Chance are losing out because they are using deceptive marketing practices. They have a large number of "pretend independent" casinos in order to market to every possible niche, but the "talented" players do not belong to any particular niche, and will seek to play at EVERY casino with favourable terms and offers.

Rival could fix this by being HONEST about the fact that it is all one big group of sister casinos run by a single company, and limit each bonus to "one account across all our sister casinos", so if a player takes their $50 ND chip in one, it vanishes from all the others, but you do NOT get to the point where players get lavish offers one week, and are COMPLETELY banned the next.

Further, players should NOT be "bonus banned" simply because they have won on their last outing, which seems to be what is happening. Having a win on a session is pure LUCK, following sessions (and their offers) encourage winning players to come back for more, and they are more likely to lose some of the money back, rather than be spectacularly lucky again.

The safest bonuses of all to offer are SLOTS ONLY, as there is no way to play with "perfect strategy" as you might with the table games, you simply spin, and pray you get lucky. With their 5% house advantage, slots are the games that make money for the casinos.

Another thing to avoid are recurring bonuses, so that any offer is granted on ONE deposit only. This will prevent players using a bonus like 100% to $200 by making repeated $20 deposits, rather than a single $200 deposit. Depositing small & often IS a form of advantage strategy for high variance games, but only because it ensures that more of any rare big hit can be cashed out. In this respect, it could be sensible to TEMPORARILY suspend promotions for players who have just cashed out, but this seems to be happening PERMANENTLY to players who have cashed out.

Great points Vinylweatherman and great suggestions as to how bonuses should be issued. I can't help but be deplored at how some of these outfits treat winners. I have won the most from Jackpot Capital and I still get two deposit bonuses a month which are nice and better yet since their VIP level or Class Level is based on play I am now at VIP level Diamond. I have been a loyal Jackpot Capital customer since last year for that reason. They treat me right whether I win or don't win.

All these Rival companies are alienating customers. Its not about the bonus banning in the end its about how the casino's treats its customers. I am sure there are quite a lot of scammers who are out to bilk the casino although I have no idea how that could be achieved by playing slots however most customers are just ordinary players like myself who are looking for some entertainment and maybe a win. This whole situation took the fun out of Rival for me anyway. The only really good Rivals out there are the ones that are listed as accredited on this site in my opinion.

 

[tradition]

I do not have time for individual answers, so my answer will be for everybody. If you do not apreciate Tradition casino, and more, if you're banned from bonuses or if you have bad bonuses from Tradition, it's clearly better that you play at an other casino.

There is probably a difference between Tradition and the others, i do not practise the silent policy. You wanted to know, i explained to you. Not happy with my explanation? Sorry, but i do my best and if you do not like my explanation, my problem remain exactly the same with rival bonus banned players or bonus hunters.

I have regrets, by the way : players not happy make always more noise than happy players. I would have apreciated some more nice comments in this threads, not only comments from banned players or limited bonuses players...

Coxwel, sorry, but what's about your 150% match bonus, up to 250.00 deposit, 21 wagering? What's about free chips you played the 2th January? Fyi, your 150% bonus is in your accounts since one week and will expire tomorrow.

 

[Dinahnana]

I do not have time for individual answers, so my answer will be for everybody. If you do not apreciate Tradition casino, and more, if you're banned from bonuses or if you have bad bonuses from Tradition, it's clearly better that you play at an other casino.

There is probably a difference between Tradition and the others, i do not practise the silent policy. You wanted to know, i explained to you. Not happy with my explanation? Sorry, but i do my best and if you do not like my explanation, my problem remain exactly the same with rival bonus banned players or bonus hunters.

I have regrets, by the way : players not happy make always more noise than happy players. I would have apreciated some more nice comments in this threads, not only comments from banned players or limited bonuses players...

Coxwel, sorry, but what's about your 150% match bonus, up to 250.00 deposit, 21 wagering? What's about free chips you played the 2th January? Fyi, your 150% bonus is in your accounts since one week and will expire tomorrow.

Tradition got of to a fine start. Why can't you do what Slotocash does? As far as I can see the difference between Slotocash and the rest of the pack is great customer support. I find your responses a little bit insulting but that could be because I am a sensitive individual. Tradition was uninstalled on my computer right after I read your reply and will remain so regardless of what happens in the future. I can play at better casinos.

 

[silcnlayc]

I would have apreciated some more nice comments in this threads, not only comments from banned players or limited bonuses players...

I was very happy with my process of withdrawal on a free chip. It was 48 hours as was stated after doc approval.

Thank you. I cannot say anything on bonuses though because I try to avoid them except for the freebies ND ones..

.

 

[uungy]

This is what really annoyed me too Chu.....the majority of my deposits were without bonuses at all. I havent checked, but its possible Im ahead at the casino.....but we all know how long thats going to last.

I mean, if the player is ahead, then how is the casino going to get its money back? Oh I know, lets remove all their promotions and make them feel like they mean nothing to you, and they will deposit more and more!!! Sheesh.

I dont actually use promos a lot these days, but its nice to have them there in case Im a bit short on funds etc......now I feel like some kind of criminal or something! Geez most of the promos were just another way to donate away with the max cashout and huge WR, but its the principle of being considered as a player whom the casino obviously doesnt want.

At least you can see thgat you wont get the bonus,, and they aren't just refusing the bonus.

You arent due a bonus by divine right! You have a choice to deposit or not.

Also you say you hardly take bonuses, so where is the issue?

 

[coxwel]

I do not have time for individual answers, so my answer will be for everybody. If you do not apreciate Tradition casino, and more, if you're banned from bonuses or if you have bad bonuses from Tradition, it's clearly better that you play at an other casino.

There is probably a difference between Tradition and the others, i do not practise the silent policy. You wanted to know, i explained to you. Not happy with my explanation? Sorry, but i do my best and if you do not like my explanation, my problem remain exactly the same with rival bonus banned players or bonus hunters.

I have regrets, by the way : players not happy make always more noise than happy players. I would have apreciated some more nice comments in this threads, not only comments from banned players or limited bonuses players...

Coxwel, sorry, but what's about your 150% match bonus, up to 250.00 deposit, 21 wagering? What's about free chips you played the 2th January? Fyi, your 150% bonus is in your accounts since one week and will expire tomorrow.

as i wrote theres one bonus left which was like before and that is the one you pointed out. yes i played a freeby some days ago as you send me via email, thx i appreciate i never said i wouldnt. and iam not an unhappy player at all ;-)

my posts were directed to your first answer and i also appreciate you beeing so honest and telling about the financial aspect. you were always honest here from the start and i played at tradition quite regular for some time as you should see. but i have stopped for longer now as i also had more luck in other casinos, thats nothing iam blaming you for.

and iam not a bonus banned player, i just pointed out that some of my bonusses at tradition changed to the bad allthough i have never had any cashouts as if this would have been the case i wouldnt be wondering as iam used to this from rival.


i can also say something positive: i had fun playing most times but unfortunately havent won so i decided to lay it down for some time.

but now after all this which was written here iam really thinking twice if and when! to deposit maybe again.

my personal feeling is just that you have changed a little and became more strict on bonusses wrs.. so if other casinos dont treat my this way iam way more likely to patronize them.

a casino should always be so professional to never make any player feel unwelcome.. doesnt matter for what reason the player decides to be unhappy about a casino and leave for some time dont punish the player better try get him back.. no personal feelings/emotions involved!

so you keep yourself always in a fair position..

just my opinion.


cheers

coxwel

 

[chuchu59]

At least you can see thgat you wont get the bonus,, and they aren't just refusing the bonus.

You arent due a bonus by divine right! You have a choice to deposit or not.

Also you say you hardly take bonuses, so where is the issue?

When there are bonuses in the cashier and they are suddenly removed it does give you a feeling of guilt. What did I do wrong? Did I take too many bonuses to deserve this? It's more a feeling of being slighted. Tradition has stated that the chances of winning are the same regardless of whether bonuses are involved. That begs the question. Why were they removed en masse so suddenly. From a business point of view this doesnt make sense. You alienate a large number of players by this act of total bonus removal. I am quite sure that this will result in a drop in the number of players regardless of whether they actually wanted to take bonuses because they will feel that their patronage is not welcomed.

Tradition should realise that, except for a few smart players, many just want more playtime. Isnt that the reason why there is a $1919 ND bonus for new players? There are many Rival casinos out there so if Tradition is so strict on bonuses why should players continue to play there. One positive would of course be the 48-hour payout but with a limited budget for most nowadays players choose their preferred casinos carefully.

My view is that Tradition does not necessarily have to listen to Rival completely and ban bonuses for every Tom, Dick and Harry. They could have done this at a slower pace and hence determine who will be the loyal players. The advantage players are unlikely to play even if there is a bonus offered if they feel that the odds are not on their side. With hindsight, wouldnt Tradition think it worthwhile to have conducted a simple survey before taking such drastic measures. I know you are the owner and must protect your profit margin but is this really the best way to do it. Maybe one who majored in marketing can give some clues.

 

[Dinahnana]

When there are bonuses in the cashier and they are suddenly removed it does give you a feeling of guilt. What did I do wrong? Did I take too many bonuses to deserve this? It's more a feeling of being slighted. Tradition has stated that the chances of winning are the same regardless of whether bonuses are involved. That begs the question. Why were they removed en masse so suddenly. From a business point of view this doesnt make sense. You alienate a large number of players by this act of total bonus removal. I am quite sure that this will result in a drop in the number of players regardless of whether they actually wanted to take bonuses because they will feel that their patronage is not welcomed.

Tradition should realise that, except for a few smart players, many just want more playtime. Isnt that the reason why there is a $1919 ND bonus for new players? There are many Rival casinos out there so if Tradition is so strict on bonuses why should players continue to play there. One positive would of course be the 48-hour payout but with a limited budget for most nowadays players choose their preferred casinos carefully.

My view is that Tradition does not necessarily have to listen to Rival completely and ban bonuses for every Tom, Dick and Harry. They could have done this at a slower pace and hence determine who will be the loyal players. The advantage players are unlikely to play even if there is a bonus offered if they feel that the odds are not on their side. With hindsight, wouldnt Tradition think it worthwhile to have conducted a simple survey before taking such drastic measures. I know you are the owner and must protect your profit margin but is this really the best way to do it. Maybe one who majored in marketing can give some clues.

Great post Chuch. As soon as I read the Tradition Casino's rep response to the thread I went ahead and got rid of it off my computer. I will never play there again. I have never won at that casino and made several deposits and no cashout. I will remain with the Rival casinos that still treat me like they want my patronage, Sloto, Ruby Royal and Vanguard and maybe Tropica since they have not bonus banned me yet.

 

[BMWSTACK]

i hate to chime in, but ive been watching this thread. I really have never liked the tone of tradition. If you look back i have had some issues with them. I am a nice guy and never liked being attacked when i never tried to attack them. I got rid of them as soon as i was having problems with the rep on here. Im glad it wasnt only me. My position is i have a hard enough time with rival support and would only play in a rival that has an accessible, fair, helpful rep on here.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I find this quite interesting. I last made a deposit without taking a bonus. At that time many bonuses were available but I decided to do without one. Okay, a day later no more promotions were available.

Funny kind of "bonus abuse" isn't it.

If a player has bonuses available, but doesn't take one, surely this is the kind of player you WANT, one prepared to mix play between sessions with a bonus, and sessions without.

Since the last deposit was WITHOUT a bonus, how the HELL could that POSSIBLY have triggered the "system" to downgrade his class to "bonus banned". This system looks SERIOUSLY flawed if it can make this kind of perverse judgement of a player. This kind of perverse judgement is also very VISIBLE to the player, and even if they often play without bonuses, they will notice that they have been DOWNGRADED, and will consider they must have done something "wrong" to earn such a class downgrade.

Now, it seems even winning WITHOUT bonuses is somehow "bonus abuse" in the eyes of Rival, resulting in the system issuing a "bonus ban".

The LAST time I saw this crazy explanation that "playing without a bonus is considered a form of bonus abuse" was in the terms and conditions of a VIRTUAL casino.

It does now look as though quite a few players will take up Tradition's advice, and play elsewhere. If they like Rival, there are STILL a few that do NOT bonus ban at the drop of a hat (or a jackpot).

Since the general aim of "bonus banning" players is to protect the finances of the casino from "bonus abusers", players who see their promos disappear are effectively being accused of being one of these "bonus abusers". Those who ARE indeed "guilty" will treat this as an "occupational hazard" and play elsewhere, but genuine players who were using bonuses in the SPIRIT they were offered will be offended by the accusation that they sought to "scam" the casino, rather than merely extend their playing time & chances of that elusive big hit. These genuine players will ALSO move on to another casino.

If Tradition is not making as much as expected, it may NOT necessarily be ONLY because of "bonus abuse", but other things that make it less attractive a venue than other casinos.

 

[Nifty29]

At least you can see thgat you wont get the bonus,, and they aren't just refusing the bonus.

You arent due a bonus by divine right! You have a choice to deposit or not.

Also you say you hardly take bonuses, so where is the issue?

Im so surprised you decided to pick my post to respond to.

I said I hardly take bonuses....I didnt say I never take them....as Chu said its nice to have the choice to begin with and a loyal player who deposits regularly should have that choice. I'm sorry you didnt take the time to read the entire thread as you would have realised its not about me wanting to take a bonus...its about having the choice. I mean, even new players get a bonus and the casino doesnt know them from a bar of soap!

Its not like I try to play blackjack or roulette with slot bonuses or anything like that to clearly attempt to cheat and take advantage.

@Vinyl....about the sudden downgrading of a lot of players even though their last deposit were without bonuses, I reckon its either one of two scenarios (both of which are stupid from a long term profitability point of view):

1. Everyone who is in a positive position with tradition was banned en masse, or

2. Tradition reverted to using the Rival-wide banning database (yes people it does exist) overnight and anyone who has been banned at another Rival has automatically been banned.

Its possible that tradition may have taken a few hits, but they havent been operating that long and it seems quite normal for this to occur with a new casino.....but the only way to get in the black and stay there is to entice those winners to give their winnings back i.e. become regular depositors and by pulling their promotions they have probably gauranteed that a whole lot of them wont be back. Im in a winning position (just) at tradition, but it is NOT due to bonuses....almost every win was from a straight deposit....but I wont be spending another cent with an outfit that thinks Im less worthy to participate in their promotions than the next person.

I mean, what to the Vegas casinos do when someone is having a winning streak??? Ban them?? Hell no! They give free suites and food and drinks and flights etc etc to entice them to return those winnings. It seems ridiculous that some online casinos do the exact opposite.

 

[tradition]

Coxwell : i think you really need to understand something. Your account has been flagged 3 weeks ago but i decided to unflagged it 2 weeks later. So you received ND and the 150% match bonus, right? But you didn't deposited since more than one month, so i cannot continue to add ND and nice match bonuses considering you didn't deposited since a long time... So, unless you used your last match bonuses, i'm affraid you won't receive new ND and you won't receive new match bonuses unless i decided to make a global offer for all players as i made yesterday by example


Chuchu59 : I think you're right, perhaps my method can seem a bit brutal, because i waited a long time hoping that tradition profit will improve but it didn't at all, so i have had to implement drastic measures for these specific classes immediately and we're making a lot of tests, hoping to find the solution about giving fun to players but without losing our money. That's exactly why i told in this thread that those measures are not definitive, and more, we're still continuying to accept some players banned from other casinos, and we're still continuying to give bonuses to some players bonus banned from other casinos. What i mean is that i'm still continuying to take more risks than most of Rival casinos, even if we made some new restrictions on some players accounts. If you know some players bonus banned from other rival, simply ask them to register in Tradition and you'll see that they won't be banned in my casino, unless they made chargeback of course

Osulle : your case is very special as i already told you by PM and remember that i made some efforts in your account even if your class brought me so many problems... Sure, i didn't have problems with your account in my casino but sometimes it's not enough. I can tell you now that i discover that the problem with your account do not depend from Tradition, it depends on an other rival casino who put your account in a sort of blacklist. If necesary, i can now tell you why, so simply send me a pm and i will explain to you what is your problem with all Rival casinos. And be sure that if 3 rival accepted to give you bonuses, it's because you have an old account with them or because these casinos didn't yet study the new Rival warnings given to all operators.

BMWSTACK : Once time again, what is your problem? Is it because i can prove that we always answer to your emails because, for sure, we kept all emails received and sent? remember : i proposed you to send you by Pm all emails received and sent, because i wanted you realize that you were wrong insisting on the fact that we didn't reply to you. But you never told me "ok, send me all emails, perhaps i'm wrong"... It's injust for my team.
More, you told you apreciate "accessible, fair, helpful rep" : you meant that i'm not! i'm affraid i'm perhaps too accessible for players and if i changed my way of work, be sure i won't spend so much time to read forums, this one and the others. If i won't, i could go to the beach instead of trying to open dialog with players and give individual answer!
So, listen, perhaps i'm a bit vivacious and i shouldn't be like this because i should be more patient due to the fact that i'm discussing with you and you're all my customers. But i'm like this and i'm affraid it won't change, i'm a bit too old now lol On an other hand, i don't want for now ask to employees to discuss with players, i prefer to do it myself because players are too importants for me. Last, I had a look in your account and your account is perfect, you have still nice match bonus deposit waiting for you and also ND bonuses...


vinylweatherman : Sorry but i'm not sure you understood the situation...I had two choices with those specific risky classes : suspend bonuses or suspend accounts. I decided to adopt the first one and for some classes i even continued to give bonuses, even if conditions seems not apreciated (30 wagering). Last, these risky classes problems are not all specifically linked to bonus abuse. It can be : bonus abuse, chargeback, duplicate local accounts, risky payments methods, bad Rival ranking, ect. Causes can be very differents but the result seems to be the same : we lost too much money with thoses classes and it deserved good players, i cannot punish good players because of risky players classes.


Nifty29 : I understand what you explained "Its possible that tradition may have taken a few hits, but they havent been operating that long and it seems quite normal for this to occur with a new casino.....but the only way to get in the black and stay there is to entice those winners to give their winnings back i.e. become regular depositors and by pulling their promotions they have probably gauranteed that a whole lot of them wont be back. Im in a winning position (just) at tradition, but it is NOT due to bonuses....almost every win was from a straight deposit...." The problem is that at the beginning i have had this reaction so i continued to give nice bonuses to these accounts but i continued to lose money more and more. So i stopped to give bonuses You spoke about landbased casinos who give fantastic gifts to winners, i know it. But do not forget that landbased casinos never offered bonuses on deposits lol More, offering a fantastic suite is the best way for be sure that the winner will stay close to the casino, exactly because this winner won't stay in his room for sure ;-) So, this is the big difference! I cannot offer to my winners to sleep close to Tradition lol But, by example, i sent champaign luxury box to our biggest players in december because i wanted to make them pleasure

 

[eu_lowroller]

Everyone who is in a positive position with tradition was banned en masse

This could be the reason, because my deposits are 150.- and my withdrawals are 175.- so there are 25.- + but they never will get more back from me, because of their bonus ban

 

[tradition]

This could be the reason, because my deposits are 150.- and my withdrawals are 175.- so there are 25.- + but they never will get more back from me, because of their bonus ban

I don't know your account but, believe me : if you have problem with your bonuses, reason is not because your account has negative amount of 25....

 

[zebedy]

I just think when you are bonus banned you can ask them to look at your account and hope to reverse the decision or move on to one you havent been banned at,with 20+ rivals casino's to choose from there is alot of choice,
ive also been banned for what seemed like winning so i just stopped depositing at that casino, but ive noticed lately the bonuses have started to come back.
so do your talking with your money and where you deposit, if they want you back as a player they can alter there decision and if they dont why do you want to play there in the first place.

And i have to give kudos to Tradition for being here and trying to be as open and honest as she has been, most casino reps would have run to the hills by now, like so many have in the past so, 10/10 for effort and your business deserve's to florish on your passion alone

where are all the other rival casino reps
(the few that do post here are not included in that statement )

 

[Nifty29]

Thank Tradition for responding, and especially for confirming publicly what we have all suspected for a long time:

Last, these risky classes problems are not all specifically linked to bonus abuse. It can be : bonus abuse, chargeback, duplicate local accounts, risky payments methods, bad Rival ranking, ect. Causes can be very differents but the result seems to be the same : we lost too much money with thoses classes and it deserved good players, i cannot punish good players because of risky players classes.

I can tell you now that i discover that the problem with your account do not depend from Tradition, it depends on an other rival casino who put your account in a sort of blacklist. If necesary, i can now tell you why, so simply send me a pm and i will explain to you what is your problem with all Rival casinos. And be sure that if 3 rival accepted to give you bonuses, it's because you have an old account with them or because these casinos didn't yet study the new Rival warnings given to all operators.

You have confirmed that Rival does indeed keep a database of EVERY Rival player registered at EVERY Rival casino.....which is bad enough IMO....but added to that EVERY player is assigned a CLASS.

A Class??? So we could, unbeknown to us, be grouped in the same 'class as 'bonus abusers' (whatever they are..??) or potential fraudsters based quite possibly on the simple fact that we might be ahead at another Rival casino or just plain lucky?? No disrespect to you Tradition, but that is a complete pile of cr*p. We all knew there was some kind of list, but this whole 'class' arrangement is, quite frankly, offensive.

What really p*sses me off is that I know for a fact I wasnt banned based on anything to do with bonuses....which only leaves me being on some kind of Rival blacklist which you have now hung your hat on. So much for treating customers based on their own merits! Yes Im ahead at present, but there is a big chance that i wouldnt have been soon....but thats not gonna happen now is it?

Now how about this 'blacklist'?? What does one have to do to get on that one?? WIN?? Geez....I am seeing this more and more that casinos dont want winners...so how are you going to get that money back?? Hope the losers lose more? What happens when some of those losers become winners??

One other thing.....whats with this 'new Rival warnings given to operators'??? What was the warning? "Look out....some people at some of our casinos are winning...get rid of them however you can!" Anyone who has any doubts that ALL Rival casinos are able to share ALL of our player information including what we win or lose and how we do it must surely be convinced now.....and must also conclude the all Rival operations are much more closely connected than Rival likes to portray.

Imagine RTG or MGS having a software-wide player database where all players were 'rated' and any time you signed up at any casino you are automatically tagged as "XYZ" type of player and ineligible for promotions etc??? Its fair enough to have a blacklist for chargebacks/fraud etc, but any other 'list' is unnecessary and is a misuse of our personal information.

The problem is that at the beginning i have had this reaction so i continued to give nice bonuses to these accounts but i continued to lose money more and more. So i stopped to give bonuses You spoke about landbased casinos who give fantastic gifts to winners, i know it. But do not forget that landbased casinos never offered bonuses on deposits lol More, offering a fantastic suite is the best way for be sure that the winner will stay close to the casino, exactly because this winner won't stay in his room for sure ;-)

I know the correlation isnt exact, and I know they dont give deposit bonuses as such, but the room and the food and the drinks and the shows etc and the comps amounts to pretty much the same thing. Its about what you SPEND, not necessarily what you LOSE.....they go out of their way to bring the winners back because they know they will win in the long run.

I think Chu said it well....there is nothing worse than logging into your account and seeing 'No Promotions Available'. Even if you werent going to use one, it makes a player feel pretty damn crook to know they are being treated worse than other players. I mean, even if there was some small deposit bonus in the cashier or whatever....at least it is something.

My play at your casino seldom involved bonuses, and yet as a result of taking a huge step backward (IMO) by invoking Rivals 'class' system you lost me as a player...a more-or-less straight up depositing player who happens to be ahead at the moment.

If anyone can explain the sense of any of this, Im all ears.

 

[eu_lowroller]

if you have problem with your bonuses, reason is not because your account has negative amount of 25....

oh and what#s exactly the reason?

i won these 125.- from the ND bonus and after that all was fine.

i made 4 deposits with 25.- and now after christmas i get bonus banned, although i never did anything *lol*

but i don't care, because i've uninstalled your casino and all is now good for me, because there are much better another places, which like also my money and pay out even within 24 hours

 

[Dinahnana]

Coxwell :

Osulle : your case is very special as i already told you by PM and remember that i made some efforts in your account even if your class brought me so many problems... Sure, i didn't have problems with your account in my casino but sometimes it's not enough. I can tell you now that i discover that the problem with your account do not depend from Tradition, it depends on an other rival casino who put your account in a sort of blacklist. If necesary, i can now tell you why, so simply send me a pm and i will explain to you what is your problem with all Rival casinos. And be sure that if 3 rival accepted to give you bonuses, it's because you have an old account with them or because these casinos didn't yet study the new Rival warnings given to all operators.

I have spent enough time on this subject already I am done. BTW "my very special situation" has been resolved satisfactorily so I do not need further information regarding this. Also I have more than 3 Rival casino accounts I but I will only be keeping the accredited ones on my computer from now on since I found them to be fair.

 

[gloria460]

You know I've never seen an owner of a casino come in here and try to be helpful and explain everything as Tradition has done. No matter what she says she's getting hit by most of you and getting it on the back end from rival. You guys wanted transparency and she's trying to give you that and adjust your account manually.

MCG gives crap ass bonuses and RTG isn't much better and we all know that. So why all the hostility to someone who is trying to build her player base and at the same time to not go broke? You guys already knew Rival shared information on players so why act like it's a big surprise. Sloto even has access to this as I suspect most online casinos do but it's not widely publicized.

It's no wonder most of the reps on here have stopped posting bc it really doesn't matter what they.

 

[Pinababy69]

You know I've never seen an owner of a casino come in here and try to be helpful and explain everything as Tradition has done. No matter what she says she's getting hit by most of you and getting it on the back end from rival. You guys wanted transparency and she's trying to give you that and adjust your account manually.

MCG gives crap ass bonuses and RTG isn't much better and we all know that. So why all the hostility to someone who is trying to build her player base and at the same time to not go broke? You guys already knew Rival shared information on players so why act like it's a big surprise. Sloto even has access to this as I suspect most online casinos do but it's not widely publicized.

It's no wonder most of the reps on here have stopped posting bc it really doesn't matter what they.

I gotta agree with that to a point Gloria. If anything, I'd say the Tradition rep is being TOO honest, lol. I loathe Rival in general, and wouldn't play there if they were the last casinos on earth. But....I don't think the problem with this specific casino is the rep...it's Rival itself, and their bizarre way of doing business. And the fact that they're not independently owned and operated, but merely white label operations (for the most part).

This is exactly the type of thing that I expected would happen back when Playshare went down the white label road a couple years back. It hasn't happened with them....but this thread (and all the other Rival ones) certainly highlight how a badly run white label business can go pear shaped. I sense that the player's dissatisfaction is with Rival in general....but because Tradition Casino is here posting...she is taking the brunt of it.

 

[chuchu59]

I doubt many of the posters are trying to be hostile to Tradition and actually it is an understandable backlash from disgruntled players who suddenly feel guilty that bonuses are being removed from their accounts.

However, let's focus on something else. A solid player base needs time to build and I would say only about 20-30% of new players will actually stay the distance to become loyal players. The en masse removal of bonuses from so many players' accounts is likely imo to destroy this foundation. Furthermore, this act may spread like wildfire and deter potential players from signing up. So let's do a simple survey Tradition. One month after the bonus removal take stock of how many of these players actually came back and deposited (without bonuses of course) and how many new players signed up. Compare this with the previous 2 months and determine whether the casino is better or worse off, both in terms of profitability and a solid player base.

One other thing you can try is to email all the bonus-banned with a single promo and state that you treasure their patronage. This will take some heat off you and bring back some player loyalty. I understand your frustration especially when it's your business and from what I have read, you may have lost money every month since the casino's inception but it will only be normal that a casino loses money on the sign-up bonuses. In time, the loyal players will patronise the casino with mixtures of bonus-free deposits and bonus-laden deposits. Find the right mix eg % match for bonuses and WRs. Vegas Regal, for example, has promo WRs that are near impossible to meet yet they are doing pretty well. In fact, sometimnes the cashier has more than a dozen promos. Sometimes I take one or two of these in the full understanding that I wont be able to cashout. But who cares when it is a 400%-500% bonus giving you hours of entertainment for only $25.

Finally, I just want to say that most of us here are not trying to take advantage of the situation and extract bonuses from you. We are simply echoing our sentiments. You made a great start and then did the right thing in having 48 hour cashouts. We dont want a good outfit go down the drain and hence we are voicing our opinions. One more thing I want to get off my chest. Casino reps who post in here are expected to be able to answer some tough questions. As long as the those who field questions are being civil I hope that reps will not take it the wrong way and shy away from answering. Time and again, I read something along the lines that reps refrain from posting because many posters are being too hostile. They want feedback and many of us are being honest about it. How else could we put our message accross. Thanks for taking time to read the lengthy post guys.

 

[gloria460]

I gotta agree with that to a point Gloria. If anything, I'd say the Tradition rep is being TOO honest, lol. I loathe Rival in general, and wouldn't play there if they were the last casinos on earth. But....I don't think the problem with this specific casino is the rep...it's Rival itself, and their bizarre way of doing business. And the fact that they're not independently owned and operated, but merely white label operations (for the most part).

This is exactly the type of thing that I expected would happen back when Playshare went down the white label road a couple years back. It hasn't happened with them....but this thread (and all the other Rival ones) certainly highlight how a badly run white label business can go pear shaped. I sense that the player's dissatisfaction is with Rival in general....but because Tradition Casino is here posting...she is taking the brunt of it.

Pina now I see why you said in another thread you wouldn't play in rival if it was the last casino. I assume that all of them are owned by a person or group that gives out franchises and the owner has some leeway but has to mainly stick to the rival platform.

They share information about you to all the casinos that you have rival accounts with. I knew to a certain degree that they shared but didn't think that they were all owned by the same people. I think I better go back to Sloto..at least hopefully they're independent. I wonder how Sloto got around this?

Thanks for a better understanding of what a white label is and how it works.

 

[oldtrvlagt]

We all vent from time to time...that helps to keep us sane. When we feel we are being ignored, and in our mind, have done nothing wrong, but no one listens we tend to go public to see if there is anyone else out there that has experienced the same lack of response. There are a few reps on here that understand this and answer with civility, they don't tell us to go somewhere else, they don't chastise us for being vocal, they do something positive. Nicholas Johnson is one of them. A few more could take a page out of his "how to treat a potential client" book , read it and memorize it. These reps are trying to sell us something....it's up to them to come through with the "warranty" so to speak....not turn on the customers. To be in sales you need a thick skin, patience, empathy, and know enough not to make promises you cannot keep. To coin a phrase "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen"....the ones still in the kitchen are the ones that will make it.

 

[gloria460]

There's also a phrase that we all deserve the same amount of respect as the next human being. She could have used a little more tact in dealing with some of the responses but what makes a player think that they can say anything they want to and get away with it. That's one of the main reasons I would never be in customer service bc the customer is not always right.

 

[Dinahnana]

There's also a phrase that we all deserve the same amount of respect as the next human being. She could have used a little more tact in dealing with some of the responses but what makes a player think that they can say anything they want to and get away with it. That's one of the main reasons I would never be in customer service bc the customer is not always right.

Gloria you hit the nail on the head. Its not so much the message but how it was delivered. Good customer service is not rocket science and there are always better way to say things.

I read the posts and felt insulted and offended by the tone since we all know about those secret lists that determine how customers get treated.
Its kinda like saying we will take your money no problem at all but don't expect a smile or a thanks in the checkout line. Service like that makes me go elsewhere whenever I encounter it.
You said it Gloria, if we all wanted to be treated like human beings. I am sure the problem with Rival belongs with the home company but come on Slotocash is independant and they know how to treat people. So does Ruby Royal. All customers are entitled to be treated with respect and I think maybe that is why so many posters are negative in this thread. They feel that Rival is lacking respect for its customers. Just my opinion.

 

[Dinahnana]

We all vent from time to time...that helps to keep us sane. When we feel we are being ignored, and in our mind, have done nothing wrong, but no one listens we tend to go public to see if there is anyone else out there that has experienced the same lack of response. There are a few reps on here that understand this and answer with civility, they don't tell us to go somewhere else, they don't chastise us for being vocal, they do something positive. Nicholas Johnson is one of them. A few more could take a page out of his "how to treat a potential client" book , read it and memorize it. These reps are trying to sell us something....it's up to them to come through with the "warranty" so to speak....not turn on the customers. To be in sales you need a thick skin, patience, empathy, and know enough not to make promises you cannot keep. To coin a phrase "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen"....the ones still in the kitchen are the ones that will make it.

I agree Nicholas Johanson is always tactful and pleasant in his posts.

 

[clj7221]

I agree Nicholas Johanson is always tactful and pleasant in his posts.

To bad we don't have awards to give out for the best Rep. If we did, Nicolas Johnson would certainly get my vote. This Gentleman is so kind, possitive just a darling person. I have never won anything at his Casino, and I hardly take any bonuses they have because most of them make it impossible to win. But who cares, just having Nicolas as a rep alone, is worth playing at his casino.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Coxwell : i think you really need to understand something. Your account has been flagged 3 weeks ago but i decided to unflagged it 2 weeks later. So you received ND and the 150% match bonus, right? But you didn't deposited since more than one month, so i cannot continue to add ND and nice match bonuses considering you didn't deposited since a long time... So, unless you used your last match bonuses, i'm affraid you won't receive new ND and you won't receive new match bonuses unless i decided to make a global offer for all players as i made yesterday by example


Chuchu59 : I think you're right, perhaps my method can seem a bit brutal, because i waited a long time hoping that tradition profit will improve but it didn't at all, so i have had to implement drastic measures for these specific classes immediately and we're making a lot of tests, hoping to find the solution about giving fun to players but without losing our money. That's exactly why i told in this thread that those measures are not definitive, and more, we're still continuying to accept some players banned from other casinos, and we're still continuying to give bonuses to some players bonus banned from other casinos. What i mean is that i'm still continuying to take more risks than most of Rival casinos, even if we made some new restrictions on some players accounts. If you know some players bonus banned from other rival, simply ask them to register in Tradition and you'll see that they won't be banned in my casino, unless they made chargeback of course

Osulle : your case is very special as i already told you by PM and remember that i made some efforts in your account even if your class brought me so many problems... Sure, i didn't have problems with your account in my casino but sometimes it's not enough. I can tell you now that i discover that the problem with your account do not depend from Tradition, it depends on an other rival casino who put your account in a sort of blacklist. If necesary, i can now tell you why, so simply send me a pm and i will explain to you what is your problem with all Rival casinos. And be sure that if 3 rival accepted to give you bonuses, it's because you have an old account with them or because these casinos didn't yet study the new Rival warnings given to all operators.

BMWSTACK : Once time again, what is your problem? Is it because i can prove that we always answer to your emails because, for sure, we kept all emails received and sent? remember : i proposed you to send you by Pm all emails received and sent, because i wanted you realize that you were wrong insisting on the fact that we didn't reply to you. But you never told me "ok, send me all emails, perhaps i'm wrong"... It's injust for my team.
More, you told you apreciate "accessible, fair, helpful rep" : you meant that i'm not! i'm affraid i'm perhaps too accessible for players and if i changed my way of work, be sure i won't spend so much time to read forums, this one and the others. If i won't, i could go to the beach instead of trying to open dialog with players and give individual answer!
So, listen, perhaps i'm a bit vivacious and i shouldn't be like this because i should be more patient due to the fact that i'm discussing with you and you're all my customers. But i'm like this and i'm affraid it won't change, i'm a bit too old now lol On an other hand, i don't want for now ask to employees to discuss with players, i prefer to do it myself because players are too importants for me. Last, I had a look in your account and your account is perfect, you have still nice match bonus deposit waiting for you and also ND bonuses...


vinylweatherman : Sorry but i'm not sure you understood the situation...I had two choices with those specific risky classes : suspend bonuses or suspend accounts. I decided to adopt the first one and for some classes i even continued to give bonuses, even if conditions seems not apreciated (30 wagering). Last, these risky classes problems are not all specifically linked to bonus abuse. It can be : bonus abuse, chargeback, duplicate local accounts, risky payments methods, bad Rival ranking, ect. Causes can be very differents but the result seems to be the same : we lost too much money with thoses classes and it deserved good players, i cannot punish good players because of risky players classes.


Nifty29 : I understand what you explained "Its possible that tradition may have taken a few hits, but they havent been operating that long and it seems quite normal for this to occur with a new casino.....but the only way to get in the black and stay there is to entice those winners to give their winnings back i.e. become regular depositors and by pulling their promotions they have probably gauranteed that a whole lot of them wont be back. Im in a winning position (just) at tradition, but it is NOT due to bonuses....almost every win was from a straight deposit...." The problem is that at the beginning i have had this reaction so i continued to give nice bonuses to these accounts but i continued to lose money more and more. So i stopped to give bonuses You spoke about landbased casinos who give fantastic gifts to winners, i know it. But do not forget that landbased casinos never offered bonuses on deposits lol More, offering a fantastic suite is the best way for be sure that the winner will stay close to the casino, exactly because this winner won't stay in his room for sure ;-) So, this is the big difference! I cannot offer to my winners to sleep close to Tradition lol But, by example, i sent champaign luxury box to our biggest players in december because i wanted to make them pleasure

Coxwell is now in "catch22". he had promos, but now they have gone. maybe he was waiting to have enough money, but when he did, the promos were not there. Now YOU won't put them back till he deposits, but HE is waiting for them to come back and THEN he might deposit. Neither side moves, but pretty soon Coxwell will start looking elsewhere.

The "bonus abuse" class seems to include ALL players who have won, and has nothing much to do with "abusive" manipulation of bonuses. It is even evident that players who have deposited without a bonus, but then won enough to go positive at Rival, get put into a "bonus banned" class. It can be for nothing other than making that win, from their own money.

You admit that a player whose account gave you no problems whatsoever had to be "bonus banned" because a DIFFERENT Rival casino had previously had a "problem" with their account. This simply should not matter to you UNLESS it was related to FRAUD, and you feared you were simply being set up for the "take down" by the good behaviour.

Bonus banning for "risky payment methods" is complete bullshit, if a payment method is risky, you stand to lose even if you DON'T offer players a bonus. The proper response would be to stop accepting that particular payment method until the risks were under control.
The fact that Rival caters to AMERICAN players means that it is CHIEFLY "risky payment methods" that will be used, and there is NOTHING the player can do about it, since it is ILLEGAL for an American based procesor to have any part in the transactions, so they have to be conducted "offshore", and by secretive outfits.

What we really want to know is what Rival MEAN by "bonus abuse", it certainly isn't something in the terms and conditions, so that players can check in advance what Rival expects them to do in relation to the bonus system. So far, despite what has been said, it seems the MAIN definition Rival use is "player has won overall", and even if it's a player who rarely takes a bonus, they are banned from them anyway.

For someone who has never played at any Rival, this sends out the message that once I win, I will be treated like dirt by the "class" system. This could happen right away, or it could happen after many years of loyalty to the brand after getting an incredibly lucky streak.