Trada casino account reopening mistake

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me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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MM
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Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
I used to play at Trada, closed my account quite some time back due to limited games available to Canadians, I since read something that they were taking on BF Games so I decided to reopen my account, painful re-verification but now I get the SOW, this is the first casino to ask me for this and I simply refuse to provide any more personal information than I have already provided, I couldn't be more legit, my business profiles are on Linkedin, I have played for years without incident, this should have been requested first,they had no problems taking a couple thousand dollars in deposits, and I am more than sure would have held my w/d hostage had I won, I should have my deps refunded back to me.

SOW is personal information and should be made an option at the start rather than after the fact so a playing and depositing decision could be made from the onset, had I known I would have written off Trada from the start and played elsewhere.
 

nutnut

Meister of Infractions
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Location
england
Why should you have your deposits back, you played them fair and square.

Just never play their again, doesn't entitle you to your money back because you don't like certain information they want from you.

Feels weird defending a casino...
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
Why should you have your deposits back, you played them fair and square.

Just never play their again, doesn't entitle you to your money back because you don't like certain information they want from you.

Feels weird defending a casino...
Did you actually read what I said, I am not making a pitch to get my money back, I am stating that they should not take deps in the first place if they are going down this road, I dont give a shit about my deposits, its the principle.
 

Conor@Trada

Moved on from Trada Casino
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Location
Ireland
I used to play at Trada, closed my account quite some time back due to limited games available to Canadians, I since read something that they were taking on BF Games so I decided to reopen my account, painful re-verification but now I get the SOW, this is the first casino to ask me for this and I simply refuse to provide any more personal information than I have already provided, I couldn't be more legit, my business profiles are on Linkedin, I have played for years without incident, this should have been requested first,they had no problems taking a couple thousand dollars in deposits, and I am more than sure would have held my w/d hostage had I won, I should have my deps refunded back to me.

SOW is personal information and should be made an option at the start rather than after the fact so a playing and depositing decision could be made from the onset, had I known I would have written off Trada from the start and played elsewhere.
Hey @me_and_ed

The SOW request is triggered when you meet certain criteria.
We're required under our license to request a Source of Wealth in the form of a payslip, bank statements etc.
If these documents cannot be provided, then the account would be closed pending the receipt of these documents.

It is quite common for all casinos to request these documents, however, I do understand how it might be deemed as an invasion of privacy. However, these documents are only viewed by the compliance manager handling the case, in this case, Graham, and all sensitive data such as this is stored securely and in the utmost correct manner.

, and I am more than sure would have held my w/d hostage had I won,
I would like to highlight this part for extra clarity. We wouldn't have ever held your withdrawals hostage pending the receipt of a Source of Wealth.

If you've any questions or any feedback, please feel free to drop me a PM.

Conor
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
Hey @me_and_ed

The SOW request is triggered when you meet certain criteria.
We're required under our license to request a Source of Wealth in the form of a payslip, bank statements etc.
If these documents cannot be provided, then the account would be closed pending the receipt of these documents.

It is quite common for all casinos to request these documents, however, I do understand how it might be deemed as an invasion of privacy. However, these documents are only viewed by the compliance manager handling the case, in this case, Graham, and all sensitive data such as this is stored securely and in the utmost correct manner.



I would like to highlight this part for extra clarity. We wouldn't have ever held your withdrawals hostage pending the receipt of a Source of Wealth.

If you've any questions or any feedback, please feel free to drop me a PM.

Conor
I have to disagree, I play tens of thousands monthly and have never been asked by other accredited casinos here for SOW proof, either way its moot, I will simply take my business elsewhere, regardless of who makes the rules it should be defined fully and up front, not after the fact.
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 23, 2013
Location
Cumbria
So SOW requests aren't just for UK players now?
They're for all players, regardless of geographical location?
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
So SOW requests aren't just for UK players now?
They're for all players, regardless of geographical location?
Appears to be so, if I am playing here in Canada at my local government regulated online casino I have to provide my occupation, I don't have an issue with this, its simply not that invasive, providing financial information in my eyes is.
 

Geremino

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Location
Elsewhere
I don't get it, really. Theres a lot of cognetive dissonance going on when it comes to casinos.

Everyone wants to play at a stable, trusted and expedient casino that goes above and beyond for them as players, but nobody wants to actually follow the rules that allows them to operate in that manner. Sending a SoW is no more annoying than sending any other KYC document, but giving them this feels more of an invasion of privacy than giving them your actual home address, phone number or your credit card information? Like any other document anyone processes during their workday, whoever reads it does not give a crap about what they see, and they look through it to see if they can spot anything that is beyond a reasonable doubt incriminating.

It's how KYC has to operate nowadays, take it or leave it. It's what happens when proper regulations only started to appear after 10+ years worth of operating, and you live in a world where credible looking documents can be generated by anyone and everyone by clicking a few buttons in Photoshop..
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
I don't get it, really. Theres a lot of cognetive dissonance going on when it comes to casinos.

Everyone wants to play at a stable, trusted and expedient casino that goes above and beyond for them as players, but nobody wants to actually follow the rules that allows them to operate in that manner. Sending a SoW is no more annoying than sending any other KYC document, but giving them this feels more of an invasion of privacy than giving them your actual home address, phone number or your credit card information? Like any other document anyone processes during their workday, whoever reads it does not give a crap about what they see, and they look through it to see if they can spot anything that is beyond a reasonable doubt incriminating.

It's how KYC has to operate nowadays, take it or leave it. It's what happens when proper regulations only started to appear after 10+ years worth of operating, and you live in a world where credible looking documents can be generated by anyone and everyone by clicking a few buttons in Photoshop..
SOW has been discussed here to death, each of us has our own opinion based on our thoughts and personal boundaries, I do not agree with the SOW format but understand why it is in place, this is where I stand and that's all I have to say.

EOD
 

SlotGrinder

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Location
England
I understand not wanting to provide SoW but I think Trada is prob the least deserving of criticism in matters like this as I have found them to have the best customer service in the business
Fwiw I've been asked SoW from VS , casumo but not Trada , Rizk and some others so idk exactly how it all works
 

Geremino

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Location
Elsewhere
SOW has been discussed here to death, each of us has our own opinion based on our thoughts and personal boundaries, I do not agree with the SOW format but understand why it is in place, this is where I stand and that's all I have to say.

EOD
EOD? End Of Discussion? If you wanted to vent about the SoW, you should have written a blog post somewhere. This is a forum, if you make a post about something, chances are it will get discussed.

But if discussion was not the point of this thread, then what was? Hoping Trada would see it and forego the SoW request? Or was it the last point in your first message about that it should be optional from the start? The thing is that everyone hates the KYC process, and its an inconvenience for both parties no matter what.

If documents are requested from when you create the account, everyone complains about "just wanting to play, not sending in documents". If the KYC is triggered at a set limit, everyone complains about "The casino letting them deposit X amount of money without verification". If the casino never requests documents, everyone complains that "The casino closed down and was fined to hell and back for breaking every regulation ever and the owners was sent to jail".

My personal opinion on the matter is that it needs to actually be way stricter, more regulated and have way more oversight and be infinitely better organized. We ARE still in some weird Wild West limbo-state when it comes to online casinos, but until something radically changes, operators and players can only roll with the punches..
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
I understand not wanting to provide SoW but I think Trada is prob the least deserving of criticism in matters like this as I have found them to have the best customer service in the business
Fwiw I've been asked SoW from VS , casumo but not Trada , Rizk and some others so idk exactly how it all works
I can only criticize based on the experiences I have had, I am not beating Trada up, I am questioning the process, like I stated this should be done at the onset, I deposit a substantial amount of money monthly and have never been flagged for SOW, why now? If there is a marker that defines when the SOW be triggered based on deposits it should be laid out in the T&C's so the player can choose instead of having to react.
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
EOD? End Of Discussion? If you wanted to vent about the SoW, you should have written a blog post somewhere. This is a forum, if you make a post about something, chances are it will get discussed.

But if discussion was not the point of this thread, then what was? Hoping Trada would see it and forego the SoW request? Or was it the last point in your first message about that it should be optional from the start? The thing is that everyone hates the KYC process, and its an inconvenience for both parties no matter what.

If documents are requested from when you create the account, everyone complains about "just wanting to play, not sending in documents". If the KYC is triggered at a set limit, everyone complains about "The casino letting them deposit X amount of money without verification". If the casino never requests documents, everyone complains that "The casino closed down and was fined to hell and back for breaking every regulation ever and the owners was sent to jail".

My personal opinion on the matter is that it needs to actually be way stricter, more regulated and have way more oversight and be infinitely better organized. We ARE still in some weird Wild West limbo-state when it comes to online casinos, but until something radically changes, operators and players can only roll with the punches..

Scale it back, I have been a long time member here and do not use this forum for leverage, I was simply stating that this process should be done at the onset, Trada just happened to be the source, as well EOD was meant for myself, there is nothing else for me to discuss, I have stated that I think the process should be done from the start or laid out in the T&Cs.
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 23, 2013
Location
Cumbria
EOD? End Of Discussion? If you wanted to vent about the SoW, you should have written a blog post somewhere. This is a forum, if you make a post about something, chances are it will get discussed.

But if discussion was not the point of this thread, then what was? Hoping Trada would see it and forego the SoW request? Or was it the last point in your first message about that it should be optional from the start? The thing is that everyone hates the KYC process, and its an inconvenience for both parties no matter what.

If documents are requested from when you create the account, everyone complains about "just wanting to play, not sending in documents". If the KYC is triggered at a set limit, everyone complains about "The casino letting them deposit X amount of money without verification". If the casino never requests documents, everyone complains that "The casino closed down and was fined to hell and back for breaking every regulation ever and the owners was sent to jail".

My personal opinion on the matter is that it needs to actually be way stricter, more regulated and have way more oversight and be infinitely better organized. We ARE still in some weird Wild West limbo-state when it comes to online casinos, but until something radically changes, operators and players can only roll with the punches..
There is quite a difference between a KYC request and a SOW request though.
Players expect to have to prove their identity and address etc. and will, begrudgingly, send them

They aren't however expecting to send detailed bank statements, salary details or other personal financial documents.
Documents you would normally only expect to give to your bank or national tax authority. NOT to some casino based wherever.
However secure the documents might be promised to be by the casino

I think the main point the OP is making, is that there are no details of SOW requests in the T&C.
Trada's T&C covers KYC with an adequate clause...
  • TradaCasino may request that You produce satisfactory identification documents (such as valid photographic identification, a copy of Your passport and/or credit/debit card). TradaCasino may take a reasonable period to examine such documents before processing any withdrawal request.
But as far as SOW requests go. the only thing i could find (albeit from a breif read through) was this VERY vague clause...
  • Threshold Payment - Players who make deposits of EUR2000 (Approx GBP1600, USD2600, CAD2800, AUD2900, NZD2900 SEK18000, NOK16000) over their account lifetime may have their account suspended until satisfactory due diligence has been received.
 
Last edited:

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
I can only criticize based on the experiences I have had, I am not beating Trada up, I am questioning the process, like I stated this should be done at the onset, I deposit a substantial amount of money monthly and have never been flagged for SOW, why now? If there is a marker that defines when the SOW be triggered based on deposits it should be laid out in the T&C's so the player can choose instead of having to react.
I don't know about where you are, but in the UK, if it is for AML, it shouldn't be done at the onset, nor at set points through the customer journey. It should be random and customer specific for obvious reasons. For RG then its different in theory.
 

Geremino

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Location
Elsewhere
There is quite a difference between a KYC request and a SOW request though.
Players expect to have to prove their identity and address etc. and will, begrudgingly, send them

They aren't however expecting to send detailed bank statements, salary details or other personal financial documents.
Documents you would normally only expect to give to your bank or national tax authority. NOT to some casino based wherever.
However secure the documents might be promised to be by the casino

I think the main point the OP is making, is that there are no details of SOW requests in the T&C.
Trada's T&C covers KYC with an adequate clause...
  • TradaCasino may request that You produce satisfactory identification documents (such as valid photographic identification, a copy of Your passport and/or credit/debit card). TradaCasino may take a reasonable period to examine such documents before processing any withdrawal request.
But as far as SOW requests go. the only thing i could find (albeit from a breif read through) was this VERY vague clause...
  • Threshold Payment - Players who make deposits of EUR2000 (Approx GBP1600, USD2600, CAD2800, AUD2900, NZD2900 SEK18000, NOK16000) over their account lifetime may have their account suspended until satisfactory due diligence has been received.
I found it under section 12 - Closing your account

  1. Your account may be closed if you do not provide satisfactory identification information, evidence of identity and address, source of funds or source of wealth whenever it is requested. Once satisfactory evidence has been provided TradaCasino, at its sole discretion, may re-open your account.
As far as I know, casinos should have their butts covered in the T&Cs. No way around it nowadays. And if people are not expecting that they have to give more information than previously, they better start. ignorance is not an option.
We are all casino players with various degrees of experience and ...veterancy? SoW, KYC and other annoying inconvenient processes are not news to any of us. The only way to change any of this is to vote (and risk it) with your wallet by playing on casinos that play more fast and loose with the rules.


Scale it back, I have been a long time member here and do not use this forum for leverage, I was simply stating that this process should be done at the onset, Trada just happened to be the source, as well EOD was meant for myself, there is nothing else for me to discuss, I have stated that I think the process should be done from the start or laid out in the T&Cs.
But you named Trada in both the title of the thread and repeatedly in your post. If this is not about Trada, why are you dragging them into this? It is also laid out in their T&Cs, which i assume other casinos also do.
SoW, KYC and every other verification or identification process also tends to change over time. I recently had to re-provide a casino with my ID and a new proof of address since the other I provided back then was ancient and expired. A SoW touches on both KYC, Anti-money laundering and whatever the casino has going for "responsible gambling", and whatever we got going on now will only get more intensive in the future.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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MM
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Location
uk
A SoW touches on both KYC, Anti-money laundering and whatever the casino has going for "responsible gambling", and whatever we got going on now will only get more intensive in the future.
A SoW request made for AML purposes can ONLY be used for AML purposes. The information you supply should not be used for RG or KYC purposes. The UKGC guidance is clear on that. It should also only be asked for in certain cases, not of everyone, and not with set thresholds.
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
I found it under section 12 - Closing your account

  1. Your account may be closed if you do not provide satisfactory identification information, evidence of identity and address, source of funds or source of wealth whenever it is requested. Once satisfactory evidence has been provided TradaCasino, at its sole discretion, may re-open your account.
As far as I know, casinos should have their butts covered in the T&Cs. No way around it nowadays. And if people are not expecting that they have to give more information than previously, they better start. ignorance is not an option.
We are all casino players with various degrees of experience and ...veterancy? SoW, KYC and other annoying inconvenient processes are not news to any of us. The only way to change any of this is to vote (and risk it) with your wallet by playing on casinos that play more fast and loose with the rules.




But you named Trada in both the title of the thread and repeatedly in your post. If this is not about Trada, why are you dragging them into this? It is also laid out in their T&Cs, which i assume other casinos also do.
SoW, KYC and every other verification or identification process also tends to change over time. I recently had to re-provide a casino with my ID and a new proof of address since the other I provided back then was ancient and expired. A SoW touches on both KYC, Anti-money laundering and whatever the casino has going for "responsible gambling", and whatever we got going on now will only get more intensive in the future.

Because TRADA should have it in their T&Cs, it would have been asked numerous times by members what casino had I not mentioned it, I am not holding TRADA hostage, I asked them to close my account, I do not want a thing from them other than to update their terms so every player knows this may be coming or can supply it from the start, I uphold the same sentiment to ALL the online casino's, I will say it once again, I have been here a long time, I deeply respect the forum and what it stands for, your insinuations are unwelcome, we will leave it at that.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
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Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Because TRADA should have it in their T&Cs, it would have been asked numerous times by members what casino had I not mentioned it, I am not holding TRADA hostage, I asked them to close my account, I do not want a thing from them other than to update their terms so every player knows this may be coming or can supply it from the start, I uphold the same sentiment to ALL the online casino's, I will say it once again, I have been here a long time, I deeply respect the forum and what it stands for, your insinuations are unwelcome, we will leave it at that.
I don't understand, your OP says 'I should have my deps refunded back to me', but you are saying thats not what you want?
 

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