This is the end of playing Microgaming for me

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
I think, and this is just my opinion for what it's worth (which isn't really worth anything), as a gambler you need to know WHEN to walk away. There's a fine line of "should I keep going to chase down my losses or should I take this win and consider this a good day?"

Whatever software you choose to play, whether it be RTG, MG, playtech, NetEnt, etc., etc. you WILL experience dry spells. Each time you have a line win, you are in reality WINNING. It may not be 10X your orginal bet, it may be only 1X your bet, but it IS a win. It just doesn't seem like it after 100 spins and your money is gone, because in actuality you are playing your small wins right back chasing down the BIG win. (I got some sleep, and I'm not sure I'm even making sense to myself).

What it boils down to(IMO)... you need to know when to hit the cashout button, when to walk away and stop chasing losses, and/or when to say enough is enough and give it a rest for a bit or try a different software for a while. There is a reason it's called gambling...
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
...

When gambling is no longer enjoyable and/or entertaining, it is time to quit. When you chase losses on a regular basis, it is time to quit. If you don't believe that the games/software you are playing is fair, it is time to quit. And when you are spending more than you win, even after winning 10K plus, it is definitely time to quit. As Nifty mentioned, slots are a long term losing proposition, not a moneymaker. The ONLY way to come out ahead in the long run, is to take a big win and run for the hills.

Best of luck to you.



I have to say, you are wrong, we are close friends because we worked together, speak same language and once upon a time, we shared the same OZ lotto ticket number with a windfall...
But you also share the same birthdate. And you like the same bands as the "third" account. I've upgraded your account to "Quit Gambling" where you still have access to the forum, but only the non-gambling sections.

The problem here is that nobody, not even the casino promoters can guarantee anything about fairness while gambling online without regulation in place that's being enforced.

If you’re convinced that something is wrong go with your instincts. Going to any forum that promotes what you’re complaining about is ridicules. If you carry on about your believes at these promotional sites, you will eventually be abused and labeled.

People making a living off this stuff can’t help but be biased. Of course this logic doesn’t apply here at this site.

Don’t let anyone here that don’t know anymore then you about how anything actually works within online gaming convince you to keep losing more money if your uncomfortable with the results.

<sigh> Your passive aggressive troll statements have been dealt with ad nauseam. We've gone through this so many times before. I think it's time we move on. I'm closing your account permanently since this is something I think you actually want me to do. You've successfully martyred your account.
 

SAunnyS72

On a Break
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Location
Australia
OK. I read that post and I had read it previously and I apologise that I didn't recall it when responding to you. I accept that you seem to have a more realistic view than I thought. I guess the part that threw me is that you were agreeing with a member here who pretty much IS blaming MG software I.e. he thinks its all rigged, when you stated you dont blame the software in your other post.

My frustration comes from players losing their shirt and throwing wild theories around and trying to convince others they are being "had".

I know realize you aren't doing that and I apologize unreservedly for getting the situation wrong.

Apology accepted and reciprocated. Let's put this behind us like 2 mature adults and back to rational debate :)

Cheers
 

skyhy

Registered User
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Location
New Zealand
MG SLOTS ARE ABSOLUTELY RANDOM...NOT!

Hey I have proof MG slots are not random,I know this debate has gone on and on but here's the proof!
I had the 20 spin feature on Immortal Romance and guess what?...about 2/3 into the feature by balance jumped by a few hundred dollars without me having a winning combination.
Well now comes the interesting part!...I then got a number of winning free spins (totally random right!) that ended up paying exactly the amount I had already displayed on my balance.
So what some have said before is true...free spin winnings are calculated before you actually have the spins therefore they are not random.
So my guess is if free spins are not random then how can ordinary spins be random,a spins a spin right?
Now I enjoy a good slot game but this makes me think big time,why am I sitting there with my hard earned free spins waiting for the big win when somewhere it's already been decided how much I will win...not good,not good at all!
I guess MG could refute what happened in my case but honestly I've played hundreds of games and hundreds of thousands of spins and I what I say is the truth...I welcome an alternative explanation from MG but I here they never reply to individuals.
And I guess someone (casino rep) is going to say the free spins are sent to my computer in a pack of 20 then shown to me in order...ok...if that's the case what's stopping the next 5000 spins on Immortal romance being sent out to players in a packet so the casino knows exactly how much it's paying out in advance...to be honest I think this is what happens.
My case is if they already know how much they are paying out on "random" free spins then they also know in advance how much they are paying in ordinary play.
So now I think if the packet of spins they generate to be sent out out a player or players contains a big win that doesn't agree with there percentage take on that game what's stopping them generating another random packet of spins that is better for them and sending that.
They would argue the spins are being generated randomly but if they only send out the ones that suit the casino or MG there really is a problem.
Makes you think!
 

azzagirt

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Location
Great Southern Land.
Imo,
I don't think they are random at all. The only thing random about them is WHO the lucky OR unlucky person is at any given time they are programed to pay out or take... They are all humanly programed when put together. Someone decides on a pattern..
I don't know how people think they could possibly be random when it's a known fact they have to pay a certain %. This fact alone suggests they cannot be random. As I said in my opinion only.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
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Location
Bexhill on sea, England
And I guess someone (casino rep) is going to say the free spins are sent to my computer in a pack of 20 then shown to me in order...ok...if that's the case what's stopping the next 5000 spins on Immortal romance being sent out to players in a packet so the casino knows exactly how much it's paying out in advance...to be honest I think this is what happens
You are right, this has all been discussed before and that IS how most online slots work.
But just because they send a "packet" of results at a time that does not mean each individual spin within that packet was not 100% completely randomly generated.

So now I think if the packet of spins they generate to be sent out out a player or players contains a big win that doesn't agree with there percentage take on that game what's stopping them generating another random packet of spins that is better for them and sending that?
Nothing.
But why would they need to risk getting caught "rigging" their slots when the mathematics guarantees the house always wins in the long run anyway?

I can't prove that MG slots are NOT rigged any more than you can prove that they are - how could we ever be 100% sure either way?
So what each person has to do is make up their own mind. If they trust the software - they use it. If they don't trust the software - they should find another pastime.

KK
 

maphesto

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Location
Sweden
If they trust the software - they use it. If they don't trust the software - they should find another pastime.

You can choose to play even if you don´t think that every single spin is random. I think we had this discussion a couple of years ago (two years ago?) when the slot temp meters at MGS suddenly disappeared for a couple of days at exactly that time we discussed them and the randomness here at CM. When they returned, they didn´t update as often as they did before we started the discussion. Wonder why? :rolleyes:

To make the discussion easier, a well known fruitie emptier here on CM did probably NOT trust the software. He still played. ;)

EDIT: KK, I was wrong, it wasn´t in mentioned thread we discussed that you can play even if you don´t believe that every single spin is random.
 
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Blkbrt

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Location
Ohio
reply

Maybe taking a break would be better than quitting MG all together.

A fool and his money are soon parted. i'm not a sore loser but i'm not rich either. Dropped 400.00 and have nothing to show not 1 win.Completely my responsibility this I know which is why for me the gambling must go. Newbies beware have fun enjoy but keep yourself in check.Thanks.
 

Borgie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
MM
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Jul 19, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
A fool and his money are soon parted. i'm not a sore loser but i'm not rich either. Dropped 400.00 and have nothing to show not 1 win.Completely my responsibility this I know which is why for me the gambling must go. Newbies beware have fun enjoy but keep yourself in check.Thanks.

You really put £400 through without 1 win? Have you the play records to show that? If so speak to the casino about it.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
You really put £400 through without 1 win? Have you the play records to show that? If so speak to the casino about it.

I believe that he ment that he had lost all of that money whitout a single cashout, and now he is being responsible enough to stop in time. He took a chance and it didn't work out.
 

Cleveland

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Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Location
Texas
A fool and his money are soon parted. i'm not a sore loser but i'm not rich either. Dropped 400.00 and have nothing to show not 1 win.Completely my responsibility this I know which is why for me the gambling must go. Newbies beware have fun enjoy but keep yourself in check.Thanks.

Not sure why you quoted me....
 

casinoplayer85

Banned User - spammer
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Location
london
Why dont you try....

I play at spin palace casino, get some big wins there, last time 10K. This was followed by a small slump and then straight into another win of about 5K.....That was on the mobile casino as well, maybe give that a try?
 

Borgie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
MM
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Location
United Kingdom
I believe that he ment that he had lost all of that money whitout a single cashout, and now he is being responsible enough to stop in time. He took a chance and it didn't work out.

Thankyou ! I am sure you are right I was just like :eek2: when I thought £400 had gone through with no win !!
 

immortality

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Location
On a seat
Luck? What is luck? luck is being in the right place at the right time. Everyone's luck must dry out at some point, don't diss the game or the casino, the games won't pay everyone at the same time, someone has to lose. As for big wins then dry periods afterwards, what,
do some people think they are going to hit big right away again:rolleyes:

Lucky periods come in spells, example; I withdrew £350 one Thursday night back in September, the next night I went to land bingo and played slots, I took £400 out of 1 machine and moved on to another where I took £250 out of.

The moral of the story is..luck is a funny thing, some people may not believe in luck, but it's just a word meaning 'being in the right place at the right time'

Thanks,


Mary.
Ps, that is my thought of today:D
 

SAunnyS72

On a Break
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Location
Australia
I have made my mind of quit playing Microgaming, closed all my MG accounts in 32red plc.
I have to say, 32red casinos are still the best in my mind, I just get disapointed by Microgaming software.
I have played at 32red on daily base, have good wins, bad run all the time.
I have noticed a certain disturbing fact. Every time I have a good win put me ahead, the extreame bad run is immediately followed.
And it lasts long and hard based on how much you won.I have to say, this is a un-natural way correcting RTP IMO...

I, as a slots player, has already beared with 5% house edge, can not take much on this kind of RTP correction any longer.
Actually, I have experienced similar situations 3 times in the past 4 months without single exception.
When the extreme bad run kicks in, games are just unbearable.

I have tried various way to overcome this situation, however, all failed.
To a point, I have to admit, I can not fight against a determined software system.
No matter how much i have put in and no matter how dedicated i played.

Played Microgaming many long years, I think this is a sufficient reason to convince myself to quit all together.

Cheers

Plasticnote

I know a lot of people will disagree with me (normally quite fanatically) but I think you are right. Why I say so?.... I lost in 10s of Thousands after I had the 2 big hits 10k + 57K in Jackpotcity in December. After taking the break for a few weeks I came back a week or so back and have spent another 10K in 5 MG casinos betting exactly the same way I normally do .... but the returns are not just shyte... I go through 500$ in 15 min or less because I am not even getting returns for click after click to even recycle the credits. Even the casino managers are surprised and are throwing credits at me because they are concerned about my returns and that I may leave for good. I have played about 5000$ on Isis and havent recieved a single Mega Moolah feature for the last 7 days betting 5$ a click. It is just unheard of. I have recieved free spin after free spin on BDBA betting 9$ and getting $5 back. I have done an audit of my account and can see th clear drop in the returns... not just on free spins/ big hits, there's a clear drop on my actual per spin return.... how could this be??...

I am writing this NOT because I hate MG, but because I LOVE it and dont want to have to leave it for good and feel sorry for the good casinos that are really trying hard to keep me.

I know there are people here who havent experienced the same things and dont have the budget to try it out the way I have and will just fanatically say it's my fault or its random and shit... but seriously I dont care... I know what I am seeing with my own eyes.
 

Seventh777

RIP Roy
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
I think this thread does raise some good issues, and imho when you get the RNG Gods shining on you it has nothing to do with playing the right slot at the right time, as we have all had those awesome sessions where you can do nothing wrong, be-it sticking to one slot and getting nigh on consecutive big hits or getting a decent hit on one slot and going from one game to another accumulating a huge balance as you go, there is a recent thread here where someone got a balance of over 15k from a 50 deposit, playing several games, is this down to an odds defying run of playing the correct game at the exact time or the software deciding that today was the day it was going to pay someone a massive x300+ deposit return?.


A few points I think most of us would all agree on.....

1). Upon release both Thunderstruck II and Immortal Romance were far loser than they are now, TSII by means of way better scatter generated bonus rounds, and IR curtsy of Wild Desire returns.

2). Why is it that the above two slots are so goddam hard to hit high end achievements on, both the actual returns for x5 scatters and x5 wilds (without the additional wins) are pitiful compared to other slot returns, these returns are ofc worked out and reflected by the return on just how hard they are to hit, imho these are nothing more than bait to keep you playing these slots until you have acquired the rather pointless all achievements unlocked status.

3). If, as we are led to believe that slots spins are purely the result of a completely random system then why are x5 scatters/wilds the last two achievements always needed?, if this is the case then surely your achievements would run this course - x5 9`s/10`s/J`s/Q`s/K`s/A`s/Long Boats/Valhalla/Valkyrie/Loki/Odin/Thor/Wilds/Scatters, and as we all know only to well, the only part of that list that follows suit are x5 scatters/wilds.

4). I have hit x5 scatters on every single slot I regularly play on except TSII/IR, I have also hit monster bonus feature returns on some that I have had far fewer features overall on, including a just under £500 for a .30p stake and £800+ for a .60p stake on Rhyming Reels Hearts and Tarts, it is suffice to say that the slot I have lost most cash on and need the top two achievements at no less than 7 casinos TSII has yet to yield a return anywhere near these, even though theoretically one of these feature rounds can trigger a hard jackpot, in fact I have got nowhere hear the potential hits of any of it`s feature rounds bar Valkyrie`s x5 multiplier, yet i`ve hit these features way more than any other features from slots I play.

I`m not saying that MGS`s RNG system is weighted or rigged as such, but, in some cases it is being far from honest.
 

bpb

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
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Haverhill
I`m not saying that MGS`s RNG system is weighted or rigged as such, but, in some cases it is being far from honest.

No, that's exactly what you're saying. Either they're using a fair RNG or they're not. If they aren't ... they're cheating. There's really no gray area here.
 

Richtree7

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Location
Massachusetts
Plasticnote,
I sympathize with your feelings. Winning or losing often makes no sense. I experience mind boggling losing streaks which are seemingly not random at all and this is mostly in B&M casinos. I play a little of everything but mostly craps, video poker and slots ..in that order.
I've been playing most of my life in Connecticut, N.J. and some Vegas.
On some crap table bets the book states "the casino has only a 1.5% edge" yet I lose my entire stake in no time...and the thing is it happens a lot. It's painful as hell. How could that be? The odds say I have a good chance of winning. It's really about 'luck', whatever that is. :)

Even with slots and VP, last Summer I had large enough wins at B&M's to have 9 W-2G's (tax forms). It was a great year for me....then the gambling devil took over and has been crushing me....practically no good wins since. The stack of 100's I had from last year are all gone.

Sometimes it seems like the games are out to get you. Wish I had a better explanation.
 

Jennifer

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Location
canada
I havent played in approx 3 weeks and it feels great. No more spending 10-12 hours pushing buttons to rarely get paid out. Hitting bonus features these days seem extremely difficult

However I have got back into poker and am having a blast with that.

From one addiction to another.

I wonder if I'll ever regret closing most of my casino accounts?
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
I havent played in approx 3 weeks and it feels great. No more spending 10-12 hours pushing buttons to rarely get paid out. Hitting bonus features these days seem extremely difficult

However I have got back into poker and am having a blast with that.

From one addiction to another.

I wonder if I'll ever regret closing most of my casino accounts?

When you are not enjoy playing, take a break or stop totally.
When you start believing all casinos are cheating, or you are not getting a fair game, take a break from playing for a while and do something else.


@Jennifer
I believe if you remember how you felt when you closed your accounts, then you will never regret doing it. Do and play whatever makes you feel good and keep enjoying it. That's life and how we should be living it.
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
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IOM
Sorry for digging this thread back up, and everything has pretty much been said already, but I'll stick my oar in anyway :D

Even though I'm sure everyone here at CM understands the concepts of variance/volatility perfectly well, my personal feeling is that sometimes human emotions get in the way of rational thought, and we start to see things that don't exist, build conspiracy theories in our minds, decide to focus on events that reinforce those beliefs, and so on.

The thing to remember is that when it comes to variance and expected results, slots are completely off the scale compared to other casino games/gambles.

At one end of the scale we have the infamous English Harbour incident, where a sample of just a few hundred gambles was enough to prove that a double-up game wasn't, ahem, 'working properly' in VP.

Slots are at the other end of this scale. Even low variance slots tend to have a couple of big wins on the paytable that you may very rarely, if ever, get to see. (Case in point is Boogie Monsters, a game I've been playing on and off for over four years, and yet it was only a couple of weeks ago that I got five Boogie Monster symbols on the reels, and also five scatters - and these two events happened pretty closely together too.)

When it comes to medium-high variance slots, the paytable is made up of hundreds of thousands of possible outcomes (do we have any actual numbers? I suspect it may be even higher than that) - so you can literally play these games for weeks and months, and still be seeing significant dead patches, hot runs, and everything inbetween.

As such, slots can often 'feel' cheaty even when they're nothing of the sort. (And yes I've been there and I've had those thought processes same as most players I'm sure.)

As a low-roller who isn't adverse to taking up big bonuses with significant WRs (I'd say my deposits are split 50/50 between bonus play and non-bonus play), I generally try to meet WRs by playing tens of thousands of spins at low stakes. (I'm not a bonus hunter/abuser as I'm not looking to find a mathematical advantage against the casino, I expect to lose long-term, and the WRs don't really exist these days where you'd expect to do any better than get your deposit back on 'average luck' anyway, I just enjoy playing the games and extending my play sessions where I can.)

Anyway, the point is that I've seen higher variance slots easily chew through £300+ playing at 30p spin with nothing in the way of a decent win or bonus round - (so over 1000x stake, if you're playing at say, £5/$5 per spin, get ready to say goodbye to £5000/$5000) - before dropping a big hit, and as is the nature of random numbers, sometimes a big hit or two close together.

My feeling when it comes to MG slots, and this is based on over four years of play and god knows how many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of spins, is that they work correctly.

Of course they're horrible when they're dead, the medium to higher variance slots in particular can be brutal, but this is the nature of random numbers. I've had really good results - (two £500 hits on Hitman at 90p stake within a couple of hundred spins of each other, and a five scatters during free spins on Summertime (Thunderstruck clone) for over £1000 from a 90p stake over the same weekend) - and they didn't make me think 'This game is broken! It's paying out too much!'

I've had really bad results too - (I remember getting absolutely leathered by one of the 5 payline basic reel slots one evening, over £1000 lost during an extended session....., and a couple of £500 down sessions as well, even with stakes of £1 or less) - and the thing is that at those times emotion kicks in and heart rules the head, 'The game must be cheating! It's not done this before!'

And what I do after those sessions is take a little break, and think back rationally and realise I just got beat by randomness and the house edge, no need for conspiracies, no need for accusations of cheating - the house just took their 5% like they always do, and I had a run of bad luck on top of that.

Ultimately if I really thought the MG casinos were cheating, I simply wouldn't play there - end of story.

Now that is not to say that they couldn't do things better, I honestly cannot understand why MG (and other software providers) don't rate the variance of their own machines, a simple scale from 1-10 or even 1-5 would do - along with an explanation of variance built into the help files, or the FAQ on the casino websites. Make the information available to players, give them a chance to make an informed choice about what style of game they wish to play before they start.

(As an aside, I think a lack of understanding of variance, and of how a long-term theoretical RTP actually works, is one of the main reasons new players tend to bust out from small bankrolls and stakes that are too high for their bankrolls, whilst not even having any clue as to the variance of the machines they're playing - and these players will most likely never come back.)

Also, provide the long-term theoretical RTP for each and every game, and display it on the pay table. I can see no valid reason whatsoever for them not to do this.

TL:DR? Slots variance works both ways, it can be a blessing and it can be a curse. We don't call 'cheat' when it works in our favour, so we should think twice about calling 'cheat' when it goes the other way.
 

retlaw

Meister Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Earth
This is, till today, the worst year I have ever had at 32Red:(
Never had such losses before,and I play since 2005 on this casino almost on a daily basis.
 

AudiManinBoro

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Location
UK
I feel for you Retlaw really do, ive had a few brutal weeks myself lol :(

Edit* Well another deposit gone with barely any play time. Thems the risks I know but jeeez. Havent seen 32Red be on the take like this and for so long in quite a whiles. Time to give them a break i think.
 
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dreamguardian1

Senior Member
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Location
San Francisco, CA
I personally dont think that microgaming is the only one that does this but all of them. Have also noticed that with others too that once u hit you start to lose it all. There is the rarely occasional exception, but thats why when you win enough to get out, do it and only leave in your original deposit amount or enough to play off of.:thumbsup:
 
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