This is the end of playing Microgaming for me

[plasticnote]

I have made my mind of quit playing Microgaming, closed all my MG accounts in 32red plc.
I have to say, 32red casinos are still the best in my mind, I just get disapointed by Microgaming software.
I have played at 32red on daily base, have good wins, bad run all the time.
I have noticed a certain disturbing fact. Every time I have a good win put me ahead, the extreame bad run is immediately followed.
And it lasts long and hard based on how much you won.I have to say, this is a un-natural way correcting RTP IMO...

I, as a slots player, has already beared with 5% house edge, can not take much on this kind of RTP correction any longer.
Actually, I have experienced similar situations 3 times in the past 4 months without single exception.
When the extreme bad run kicks in, games are just unbearable.

I have tried various way to overcome this situation, however, all failed.
To a point, I have to admit, I can not fight against a determined software system.
No matter how much i have put in and no matter how dedicated i played.

Played Microgaming many long years, I think this is a sufficient reason to convince myself to quit all together.

Cheers

Plasticnote

 

[Cleveland]

Maybe taking a break would be better than quitting MG all together.

 

[dekar]

I kind of agree to what you're saying. I have played MicroGaming casinos for 8-9 years, mostly Sun Vegas and Lucky Nugget (the latter I've stopped playing, as I've never _ever_ won big there, despite losing tens of thousands).

I'm having really bad luck so far this year. Since January 1st I'm down almost -$9,000 USD and I have mostly been playing Thunderstruck on Sun Vegas. I started playing Breaking da Bank Again a few days ago (since I've seen so many here on the forum playing it) but I'm only counting losses so far. I'm playing mostly $2,25 and $4,50 bets and on BDBA I hardly win anything at all when I get the free spins feature. I can get 20-30 spins and not win a single coin. It's a joke ..

Also, I periodically pull off some $1k-$2k wins on Thunderstruck, but my problem is that I'm not withdrawing them. I just increase my bet to $9 and keep playing, hoping to win a decent amount ($10k+) ..

Oh well .. It'll turn again soon, I hope..

 

[Respin_Ftw]

I completely agree Plasticnote. I had a good start this year, but everytime i was ahead it went cold, and i mean cold....Couldnt hit a feature to save my life!

So i closed my four accounts @ 32red grp for 3 months. Maybe theres some new slots coming that will keep me away from the EXTREME slots "Santas wild ride" & "Immortal Romance"....which alot of youtubers call; "The biggest con ever..." - LOL! They havent played Santas then i suppose =)

So instead of complain and still making deposits i take a chill-out period of 3 months.

 

[plasticnote]

BDBA, I had a big win 2 weeks ago. 9K in total in 1 session.
Since then 10K + in and alot of bonus, without a single 5OK cheque, notes, bar or diamond.
that is $10K+ deposits and major bet size is 0.9 - 1.8

Tell me this is natural...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Then start of Jan this year, IM slots, one night of 5K wins followed entire Jan losing, 8K+ lost

Then Oct last year, 7K hit on LOTR followed by 2 months, my avg RTP at 32red - 78%

In my view MG system is not designed for dedicate and loyal players...

To gain a good play, you have to spread to as many MG casinos as possible.

Sorry, I only play at 32red or quit all together

 

[conker]

I have heard a couple of players talking about how Microgaming's RTP's seem more stingy these days. One thing is for sure, since pulling out of the US completely they are making less money.

 

[dekar]

I completely agree Plasticnote. I had a good start this year, but everytime i was ahead it went cold, and i mean cold....Couldnt hit a feature to save my life!

So i closed my four accounts @ 32red grp for 3 months. Maybe theres some new slots coming that will keep me away from the EXTREME slots "Santas wild ride" & "Immortal Romance"....which alot of youtubers call; "The biggest con ever..." - LOL! They havent played Santas then i suppose =)

So instead of complain and still making deposits i take a chill-out period of 3 months.

So tell me, how do you actually manage to go 3 months without playing? I've gone 2-3 weeks tops.

 

[Jennifer]

Glad to see Im not the only one!

I would suggest you ask for a limited time ban. I at first asked for a network IP ban permanantly but recently a rep contacted me, gave me some free chips to try it out again before I closed it. I admit I love some of their games but in the end it was the same old. So instead of closing it perma. I got a 6 month network wide ban, which includes deposit options disabled. After the 6 month period I have a limit of a small $65 per month that can be deposited. This is for pure entertainment purposes if I so choose to get a taste of MG every now and again.

The reason the rep contacted me was of course to try and convince me to keep my account opened. His reasoning for the free chips is to maybe help change my luck because "he admits, I have had an unusual run of bad luck" since joining.

Im kind of tired of the same old thing happening on all casino's so Im getting pretty close to putting all these restrictions on every casino I have downloaded. You hit a little score and then you go 3000 spins with nothing but a few dollars here and there.

Gambling sucks

 

[Nifty29]

BDBA, I had a big win 2 weeks ago. 9K in total in 1 session.
Since then 10K + in and alot of bonus, without a single 5OK cheque, notes, bar or diamond.
that is $10K+ deposits and major bet size is 0.9 - 1.8

Tell me this is natural...-----------------------------------------------------------
Then start of Jan this year, IM slots, one night of 5K wins followed entire Jan losing, 8K+ lost

Then Oct last year, 7K hit on LOTR followed by 2 months, my avg RTP at 32red - 78%

In my view MG system is not designed for dedicate and loyal players...

To gain a good play, you have to spread to as many MG casinos as possible.

Sorry, I only play at 32red or quit all together

This is natural.


You had a big win of $9k, and then you gave back $10k. Nothing untoward there. Remember...you hit $9k in one session...that is a big win, and these kinds of wins are not going to come up regularly.

You need to understand that these are slots and they are designed to pay out and take back and you cannot win in the long term. The RTP of the slots does not apply on a per-player basis i.e. you might have a 78% RTP but someone else might have a 120% RTP, that's just the way it rolls. It would be very unusual for every player to have a personal RTP around the game RTP of 95%...on a high variance game like BDBA a 78% RTP is nothing unusual at all.

The $7k win on LOTR followed by the 78% RTP over 2 months is within expectations. If you factor in the $7k (which you should to get an accurate picture) then your RTP would be quite a bit better. Leaving out the big wins in your calculations is giving you a skewed overall picture of your play.

The software is not to blame. It is important that you realise it is your choice to spend that kind of money and it is a certainty that you will eventually lose it all. It won't matter what software you play, you will encounter the exact same issues. Unless you look at the situation logically and learn about how slots work, you are doomed to repeat history I'm afraid.

 

[Volatile]

Cold streaks hot streaks are all part of the game.

No one can win all the time. Certain games are notorious for low payout. Lord of the rings for example. I spin it and could go through $20 without a win of any size.Low rolling for .30cents. I could not imagine playing a constant $1 per spin.

If everyone had "hot streaks" all the time the payout would be low.

 

[plasticnote]

This is natural.


You had a big win of $9k, and then you gave back $10k. Nothing untoward there. Remember...you hit $9k in one session...that is a big win, and these kinds of wins are not going to come up regularly.

You need to understand that these are slots and they are designed to pay out and take back and you cannot win in the long term. The RTP of the slots does not apply on a per-player basis i.e. you might have a 78% RTP but someone else might have a 120% RTP, that's just the way it rolls. It would be very unusual for every player to have a personal RTP around the game RTP of 95%...on a high variance game like BDBA a 78% RTP is nothing unusual at all.

The $7k win on LOTR followed by the 78% RTP over 2 months is within expectations. If you factor in the $7k (which you should to get an accurate picture) then your RTP would be quite a bit better. Leaving out the big wins in your calculations is giving you a skewed overall picture of your play.

The software is not to blame. It is important that you realise it is your choice to spend that kind of money and it is a certainty that you will eventually lose it all. It won't matter what software you play, you will encounter the exact same issues. Unless you look at the situation logically and learn about how slots work, you are doomed to repeat history I'm afraid.

Hi Nifty29:

Firstly, thank you for your input with all due respects. However, I disagree.

If MG slots are designed in the way you said, I think I made the right decision to quit all together.

Is it that each spin on slots aught to be independent and no relevants to each other what so ever?

And 2 weeks is not a long term, how come after a big hit, my play is always certainly doomed?

If this is the way, all slots are classified as AWP.

Let say this way, normally, $3 - 4K can last a month to play in normal circumstance, I am saying some wins some lose.

After a big win, it last only a week immediately.

If I raised my bet size or do sth crazy, that 's fine.

However, I did not, I always played in the same way.

my view

Cheers

plasticnote

 

[Osloking]

From 1. january something really changed also for me, my RTP sucks big time and almost 100 deposits to "win"

i will also stop playing at MG soon if it continues like this, maybe maximum 1 more month

just last 2 days im down 2K$, 10K$ since january.

you get greedy MG, you will lose alot of players!

 

[immortality]

I have to agree that after a big win comes a big fall, or you may get a few big wins then win nothing for ages, there is only one word to describe this Torture, I don't particularly like to win too big, as some form of bad luck follows, but that's just me

 

[HadEnouth]

You need to understand that these are slots and they are designed to pay out and take back and you cannot win in the long term.

If these games are truly random, Then a win should have no impact on future spins. But I suspect slots are fixed, If slots are designed to take more back than it pays out in the long run, Then it can't be claimed they are truly random. Because if they were random, It be a diffirent outcome everytime. Randomness can't be predicted. I also find a win does impact future spins on a slot. And when that slot goes cold, Not only does that slot go cold, But every game in the casino suddenly dries up. And The balance only goes one way from that point. Anyone that thinks slots are really random need to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Greigssy]

I feel that sometimes when I won big it was like I was paying a debt to the casino before I could start winning again.
Also the opposite is true when I lost a large amount and its happened to me on many notable occassions in the past.

I used to go a bit mental on mega-moolah max betting £6.25 within half an hour I could be down £500-£1000.I would then switch slots and on a slightly lower bet I would win huge almost immediately.
Ive had 5 doorbells on the Osbournes twice.5 scatters on Jolly Jester twice. Also £400 a few times on Agent Jane Blonde on a 0.90 spin.I never got any of these type of wins when I first deposited and played.

All these wins always came in within 100 spins after I lost a lot of money in a very short period of time on another slot.

But Iam actually slightly ahead this year at most MG casinos but Iam lowrolling all the time and spreading my play accross casinos from one day to the next.If I get above double my deposit I usually cashout now.

 

[vinylweatherman]

You haven't "tried everything" till you have had a crack at the AWP games

The slots that are promoted heavily are the ones to avoid. Play the ones they keep quiet about.

Many of the newer slots are cleverly designed to give the appearance of being low variance, but are in fact high variance. This is an explanation for how a big win can be cruelly taken back that does not need to include RTP stabilisation as there is in the AWP games.

I have found that jumping from game to game is better than sticking to a persistently cold game because it "gotta pay soon". Sometimes all games are cold, but I often stumble on a hot one. I return to the cold games later in the session to try a few spins. Sometimes they heat up and pay within a dozen spins, sometimes they stay cold for one visit after another.

Higher variance is actually BETTER for players that like to take the bonuses. Under current rules, slots are the BEST games to play with a bonus at MGS, even though the house edge is the highest of all the games on offer.

These "greedy" slots are actually bad for operators, as it increases the risks associated with offering big bonuses to beat the competition.

 

[LHofsdal]

It is not just Microgame....

Maybe it is a sign of the times? It is not just Microgame, I have read on other boards it is just as bad at RTG. One player had 287 spins on a slot without a feature, and this game has 2 features. 2 different features and with 287 spins you still can't get a feature? That there tells me something is not right. It was never like this before the DOJ started butting their nose into things. I remember when I could play MG, and some days were pretty good, other days were not so good. But atleast you have the options to play different platforms. Being from the US, I am pretty much limited.

Everyone has ups and downs, that is true, but it seems that with all the threads with members having a "bad run" the downs are alot more common. One can only wonder if these RTP percentages are actually all that accurate. With all these updates, and the lack of hitting anything, features, 5OAK, it is hard to say. Even though a casino themselves don't change the RTP percentages, can the software providers do it with all these updates without anyone knowing?

I remember when MG had released all these new games, and the winner screen shots were just bombarded with all these spectacular wins, and even today there are some really good ones, but not like there use to be. Of course there are some great screenshots still being posted but most are not from MG or RTG. In all reality, you have to take the good with the bad and if you feel the bad is becoming worse, then it is time to take a break or move on or quit all together.

These casinos are not going to change, there is nothing we can do about it. But if you are really that unhappy with your playtime, Plasticnote, you are doing the right thing. When someone has had enough, it is best just leave and not look back. Just move forward and keep moving. Don't ponder on what could have been, because you will only give yourself gray hair and ulcers. LOL.

Hang in there my fellow CM members, hopefully one day we will be reading some success stories from all of you. And lets hope it is in the near future, not the distant future!!

LH

 

[Bonkerjerks]

As I stated in another thread, the actual concern here isn't RTP, it's actually what's called the volatility of the slot.

The RTP on any licensed slot is thoroughly tested and confirmed by applicable regulatory bodies in that territory. However, volatility has no major regulatory requirements.

Volatility is best described as the "ride" you experience when you play a slot. Volatility comes in many forms, but I'll just talk about the two ends of the spectrum to keep it straightforward. Say you have two slots with the exact same RTP.

Slot #1 is low volatility, which means you win small amounts more often and your money lasts longer, but the game doesn't reward huge wins that often. This is perfect for the entertainment player, who values the experience of play as much as actually winning. This type of slot will not have long cold periods since it awards numerous small amounts, but conversely you won't see the 1000x payoffs.

Slot #2 is high volatility, which means wins are fewer and further between, but big wins are more common. This is designed for the gambler who is looking for that big score. However, because of long cold periods, a lot of players could walk away never having won a cent.

In the end, both slots would pay off to the same RTP, with Slot #1 doing it in a large number of small amounts and Slot #2 doing it in a small number of large amounts. That's volatility at work, showing that RTP is honestly less of a measure of your experience than people think it is, especially since the percentage is theoretical and based on thousands upon thousands of spins.

I hope that helps. I've been pushing for a fuller understanding of volatility as I believe that players who understand it will be better able to find slots that cater towards their playstyle.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm the Casino Game Product Manager for IGT.

 

[threescatters]

Great post Bonkerjerks, thanks. (stop putting ranges in your rtp quotes tho!)

 

[Nifty29]

If these games are truly random, Then a win should have no impact on future spins. But I suspect slots are fixed, If slots are designed to take more back than it pays out in the long run, Then it can't be claimed they are truly random. Because if they were random, It be a diffirent outcome everytime. Randomness can't be predicted. I also find a win does impact future spins on a slot. And when that slot goes cold, Not only does that slot go cold, But every game in the casino suddenly dries up. And The balance only goes one way from that point. Anyone that thinks slots are really random need to wake up and smell the coffee.

You need to understand that slots are "fixed"by their very nature. A slot can be random and "fixed" I.e designed to pay back less than what it put in......but what you're talking about is "rigged".

The problem that you, and some others here, have is that you don't understand randomness. A popular idea seems to be that random means that you should be hitting decent wins regularly, or that a monster win should be able to be repeated fairly easily. Part of that is player psychology, but I'm only going to deal with the idea of "random".

A simple example would be a "cup and ball" game where you have to guess which cup the ball is under after it is randomly placed by the operator. Let's say there are 10 cups. Your odds of choosing the right cup are 1 in 10 (its worthwhile trying this with someone for real).

It is totally possible that you could not find the ball once in the first 50 or even the first 100 spins. Alternatively, you could find it 3 times in a row, or 5 times in the first 20 plays. Now, translate this to a couple of slots players. The first one will be screaming "rigged..there's no way this is random" and the other will be saying "this slot is hot!". Problem is, at some point the roles will be reversed and the first player will say "its about time this slot is alright after all" and the second will say "this slot is rigged its almost like its taking everything back after my big wins'. Truth is, its just the ol' mathematics of chance and probability catching up with both of them. All the while, the cup game (or slot) is 100% random.

The other important aspect is volatility or variance, which was very well explained by the rep in this thread so I won't go there.

Finally, back to the cup game. If the operator charged you $1 per game and gave you $9 every time you picked the right cup, you could easily be $50 down after 50 plays or $40 up after five plays. However, it will even out the more you play and in the long term the operator will keep $1 of every $10 you wager. Sometimes you'll be ahead, sometimes they'll be ahead, but long term you cannot win. A casino version would be where there are thousands of cup games being played simultaneously, where some will losing and others will be winning. It's another misconception.....you might say "I dropped $2k in two days the slots must be rigged etc, when the reality is that most of what you lost has been paid to another player in winnings.

With a view like yours, I'm not surprised you have HAD ENOUTH.

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

Well i could understand "volatility ' when playing 1 particular slot at one particular casino. What about when they all get freezing cold regardless where you play?? How to explain that? And this pretty likely to happen after hitting a big one at casino ABC.

As I stated in another thread, the actual concern here isn't RTP, it's actually what's called the volatility of the slot.

The RTP on any licensed slot is thoroughly tested and confirmed by applicable regulatory bodies in that territory. However, volatility has no major regulatory requirements.

Volatility is best described as the "ride" you experience when you play a slot. Volatility comes in many forms, but I'll just talk about the two ends of the spectrum to keep it straightforward. Say you have two slots with the exact same RTP.

Slot #1 is low volatility, which means you win small amounts more often and your money lasts longer, but the game doesn't reward huge wins that often. This is perfect for the entertainment player, who values the experience of play as much as actually winning. This type of slot will not have long cold periods since it awards numerous small amounts, but conversely you won't see the 1000x payoffs.

Slot #2 is high volatility, which means wins are fewer and further between, but big wins are more common. This is designed for the gambler who is looking for that big score. However, because of long cold periods, a lot of players could walk away never having won a cent.

In the end, both slots would pay off to the same RTP, with Slot #1 doing it in a large number of small amounts and Slot #2 doing it in a small number of large amounts. That's volatility at work, showing that RTP is honestly less of a measure of your experience than people think it is, especially since the percentage is theoretical and based on thousands upon thousands of spins.

I hope that helps. I've been pushing for a fuller understanding of volatility as I believe that players who understand it will be better able to find slots that cater towards their playstyle.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm the Casino Game Product Manager for IGT.

 

[LaHutti]

You need to understand that slots are "fixed"by their very nature. A slot can be random and "fixed" I.e designed to pay back less than what it put in......but what you're talking about is "rigged".

The problem that you, and some others here, have is that you don't understand randomness. A popular idea seems to be that random means that you should be hitting decent wins regularly, or that a monster win should be able to be repeated fairly easily. Part of that is player psychology, but I'm only going to deal with the idea of "random".

A simple example would be a "cup and ball" game where you have to guess which cup the ball is under after it is randomly placed by the operator. Let's say there are 10 cups. Your odds of choosing the right cup are 1 in 10 (its worthwhile trying this with someone for real).

It is totally possible that you could not find the ball once in the first 50 or even the first 100 spins. Alternatively, you could find it 3 times in a row, or 5 times in the first 20 plays. Now, translate this to a couple of slots players. The first one will be screaming "rigged..there's no way this is random" and the other will be saying "this slot is hot!". Problem is, at some point the roles will be reversed and the first player will say "its about time this slot is alright after all" and the second will say "this slot is rigged its almost like its taking everything back after my big wins'. Truth is, its just the ol' mathematics of chance and probability catching up with both of them. All the while, the cup game (or slot) is 100% random.

The other important aspect is volatility or variance, which was very well explained by the rep in this thread so I won't go there.

Finally, back to the cup game. If the operator charged you $1 per game and gave you $9 every time you picked the right cup, you could easily be $50 down after 50 plays or $40 up after five plays. However, it will even out the more you play and in the long term the operator will keep $1 of every $10 you wager. Sometimes you'll be ahead, sometimes they'll be ahead, but long term you cannot win. A casino version would be where there are thousands of cup games being played simultaneously, where some will losing and others will be winning. It's another misconception.....you might say "I dropped $2k in two days the slots must be rigged etc, when the reality is that most of what you lost has been paid to another player in winnings.

With a view like yours, I'm not surprised you have HAD ENOUTH.

Except for the continuous mentioning of enouth's name, in a most annyoing and sarcastic way, I agree 100%
Although we (still) have no way of knowing if these online slots are random, or not, people will lose playing slots. It's a mathematical fact.
Getting a 9K win on BDBA is for the VERY few, and happens so rarely, that I'd say if it happened to op again in the near future, he deserves a spot on the "luckiest winners ever" list.
People can play that game for years, without hitting even a decent win, and betting high on it, is for people with too much money. Losing 10K is as easy, as scratching your butt, while winning 9K is as difficult as making ME scratch your butt.

 

[smcinoz]

I go to work every workday of everyweek to earn money .... i know if i go to work i cant lose anything ..... except my marbles dealing with customers

I play for entertainment value, i dont play everyday or every week and i dont assume when I play I am going to win something and also win big every time.

If i get bored of em I can go and spend 100-150 on some dvd's, a night out on the turps, day at the race etc instead of making another deposit.

The moment i stop enjoying the upswings and downswings of playing the bandits i wont play em anymore.


So i would agree to stop playing if you are not enjoying your time and money spent on the machines.

 

[09237653]

/tinfoil hat mode
I can agree with points made here, I have always suspected big wins are followed by losses to payback the winnings (based on my personal experiences)
ill hit a large (by my standard of play) win which will then be followed by a insane dry spell, until the huge hit comes again followed by another dry spell, rinse repeat.

But at the end of the day random is random.

what would be good if somebody (trusted) could write a program we can all run on our computers while playing that gathers statisitics on all our play and builds up an online database and we can see if these games (slots) really do play ball in the long run.

 

[Osloking]

well mathematicly speaking i have now done almost 320K , 320.000+++ Spins on that damn BDBA and never got 5 saphire, how can you explain that to me? and never got 5 of a kind higher than 10 on freespin.