This is the end of playing Microgaming for me

[plasticnote]

I have made my mind of quit playing Microgaming, closed all my MG accounts in 32red plc.
I have to say, 32red casinos are still the best in my mind, I just get disapointed by Microgaming software.
I have played at 32red on daily base, have good wins, bad run all the time.
I have noticed a certain disturbing fact. Every time I have a good win put me ahead, the extreame bad run is immediately followed.
And it lasts long and hard based on how much you won.I have to say, this is a un-natural way correcting RTP IMO...

I, as a slots player, has already beared with 5% house edge, can not take much on this kind of RTP correction any longer.
Actually, I have experienced similar situations 3 times in the past 4 months without single exception.
When the extreme bad run kicks in, games are just unbearable.

I have tried various way to overcome this situation, however, all failed.
To a point, I have to admit, I can not fight against a determined software system.
No matter how much i have put in and no matter how dedicated i played.

Played Microgaming many long years, I think this is a sufficient reason to convince myself to quit all together.

Cheers

Plasticnote

 

[Cleveland]

Maybe taking a break would be better than quitting MG all together.

 

[dekar]

I kind of agree to what you're saying. I have played MicroGaming casinos for 8-9 years, mostly Sun Vegas and Lucky Nugget (the latter I've stopped playing, as I've never _ever_ won big there, despite losing tens of thousands).

I'm having really bad luck so far this year. Since January 1st I'm down almost -$9,000 USD and I have mostly been playing Thunderstruck on Sun Vegas. I started playing Breaking da Bank Again a few days ago (since I've seen so many here on the forum playing it) but I'm only counting losses so far. I'm playing mostly $2,25 and $4,50 bets and on BDBA I hardly win anything at all when I get the free spins feature. I can get 20-30 spins and not win a single coin. It's a joke ..

Also, I periodically pull off some $1k-$2k wins on Thunderstruck, but my problem is that I'm not withdrawing them. I just increase my bet to $9 and keep playing, hoping to win a decent amount ($10k+) ..

Oh well .. It'll turn again soon, I hope..

 

[Respin_Ftw]

I completely agree Plasticnote. I had a good start this year, but everytime i was ahead it went cold, and i mean cold....Couldnt hit a feature to save my life!

So i closed my four accounts @ 32red grp for 3 months. Maybe theres some new slots coming that will keep me away from the EXTREME slots "Santas wild ride" & "Immortal Romance"....which alot of youtubers call; "The biggest con ever..." - LOL! They havent played Santas then i suppose =)

So instead of complain and still making deposits i take a chill-out period of 3 months.

 

[plasticnote]

BDBA, I had a big win 2 weeks ago. 9K in total in 1 session.
Since then 10K + in and alot of bonus, without a single 5OK cheque, notes, bar or diamond.
that is $10K+ deposits and major bet size is 0.9 - 1.8

Tell me this is natural...
-----------------------------------------------------------
Then start of Jan this year, IM slots, one night of 5K wins followed entire Jan losing, 8K+ lost

Then Oct last year, 7K hit on LOTR followed by 2 months, my avg RTP at 32red - 78%

In my view MG system is not designed for dedicate and loyal players...

To gain a good play, you have to spread to as many MG casinos as possible.

Sorry, I only play at 32red or quit all together

 

[conker]

I have heard a couple of players talking about how Microgaming's RTP's seem more stingy these days. One thing is for sure, since pulling out of the US completely they are making less money.

 

[dekar]

I completely agree Plasticnote. I had a good start this year, but everytime i was ahead it went cold, and i mean cold....Couldnt hit a feature to save my life!

So i closed my four accounts @ 32red grp for 3 months. Maybe theres some new slots coming that will keep me away from the EXTREME slots "Santas wild ride" & "Immortal Romance"....which alot of youtubers call; "The biggest con ever..." - LOL! They havent played Santas then i suppose =)

So instead of complain and still making deposits i take a chill-out period of 3 months.

So tell me, how do you actually manage to go 3 months without playing? I've gone 2-3 weeks tops.

 

[Jennifer]

Glad to see Im not the only one!

I would suggest you ask for a limited time ban. I at first asked for a network IP ban permanantly but recently a rep contacted me, gave me some free chips to try it out again before I closed it. I admit I love some of their games but in the end it was the same old. So instead of closing it perma. I got a 6 month network wide ban, which includes deposit options disabled. After the 6 month period I have a limit of a small $65 per month that can be deposited. This is for pure entertainment purposes if I so choose to get a taste of MG every now and again.

The reason the rep contacted me was of course to try and convince me to keep my account opened. His reasoning for the free chips is to maybe help change my luck because "he admits, I have had an unusual run of bad luck" since joining.

Im kind of tired of the same old thing happening on all casino's so Im getting pretty close to putting all these restrictions on every casino I have downloaded. You hit a little score and then you go 3000 spins with nothing but a few dollars here and there.

Gambling sucks

 

[Nifty29]

BDBA, I had a big win 2 weeks ago. 9K in total in 1 session.
Since then 10K + in and alot of bonus, without a single 5OK cheque, notes, bar or diamond.
that is $10K+ deposits and major bet size is 0.9 - 1.8

Tell me this is natural...-----------------------------------------------------------
Then start of Jan this year, IM slots, one night of 5K wins followed entire Jan losing, 8K+ lost

Then Oct last year, 7K hit on LOTR followed by 2 months, my avg RTP at 32red - 78%

In my view MG system is not designed for dedicate and loyal players...

To gain a good play, you have to spread to as many MG casinos as possible.

Sorry, I only play at 32red or quit all together

This is natural.


You had a big win of $9k, and then you gave back $10k. Nothing untoward there. Remember...you hit $9k in one session...that is a big win, and these kinds of wins are not going to come up regularly.

You need to understand that these are slots and they are designed to pay out and take back and you cannot win in the long term. The RTP of the slots does not apply on a per-player basis i.e. you might have a 78% RTP but someone else might have a 120% RTP, that's just the way it rolls. It would be very unusual for every player to have a personal RTP around the game RTP of 95%...on a high variance game like BDBA a 78% RTP is nothing unusual at all.

The $7k win on LOTR followed by the 78% RTP over 2 months is within expectations. If you factor in the $7k (which you should to get an accurate picture) then your RTP would be quite a bit better. Leaving out the big wins in your calculations is giving you a skewed overall picture of your play.

The software is not to blame. It is important that you realise it is your choice to spend that kind of money and it is a certainty that you will eventually lose it all. It won't matter what software you play, you will encounter the exact same issues. Unless you look at the situation logically and learn about how slots work, you are doomed to repeat history I'm afraid.

 

[Volatile]

Cold streaks hot streaks are all part of the game.

No one can win all the time. Certain games are notorious for low payout. Lord of the rings for example. I spin it and could go through $20 without a win of any size.Low rolling for .30cents. I could not imagine playing a constant $1 per spin.

If everyone had "hot streaks" all the time the payout would be low.

 

[plasticnote]

This is natural.


You had a big win of $9k, and then you gave back $10k. Nothing untoward there. Remember...you hit $9k in one session...that is a big win, and these kinds of wins are not going to come up regularly.

You need to understand that these are slots and they are designed to pay out and take back and you cannot win in the long term. The RTP of the slots does not apply on a per-player basis i.e. you might have a 78% RTP but someone else might have a 120% RTP, that's just the way it rolls. It would be very unusual for every player to have a personal RTP around the game RTP of 95%...on a high variance game like BDBA a 78% RTP is nothing unusual at all.

The $7k win on LOTR followed by the 78% RTP over 2 months is within expectations. If you factor in the $7k (which you should to get an accurate picture) then your RTP would be quite a bit better. Leaving out the big wins in your calculations is giving you a skewed overall picture of your play.

The software is not to blame. It is important that you realise it is your choice to spend that kind of money and it is a certainty that you will eventually lose it all. It won't matter what software you play, you will encounter the exact same issues. Unless you look at the situation logically and learn about how slots work, you are doomed to repeat history I'm afraid.

Hi Nifty29:

Firstly, thank you for your input with all due respects. However, I disagree.

If MG slots are designed in the way you said, I think I made the right decision to quit all together.

Is it that each spin on slots aught to be independent and no relevants to each other what so ever?

And 2 weeks is not a long term, how come after a big hit, my play is always certainly doomed?

If this is the way, all slots are classified as AWP.

Let say this way, normally, $3 - 4K can last a month to play in normal circumstance, I am saying some wins some lose.

After a big win, it last only a week immediately.

If I raised my bet size or do sth crazy, that 's fine.

However, I did not, I always played in the same way.

my view

Cheers

plasticnote

 

[Osloking]

From 1. january something really changed also for me, my RTP sucks big time and almost 100 deposits to "win"

i will also stop playing at MG soon if it continues like this, maybe maximum 1 more month

just last 2 days im down 2K$, 10K$ since january.

you get greedy MG, you will lose alot of players!

 

[immortality]

I have to agree that after a big win comes a big fall, or you may get a few big wins then win nothing for ages, there is only one word to describe this Torture, I don't particularly like to win too big, as some form of bad luck follows, but that's just me

 

[HadEnouth]

You need to understand that these are slots and they are designed to pay out and take back and you cannot win in the long term.

If these games are truly random, Then a win should have no impact on future spins. But I suspect slots are fixed, If slots are designed to take more back than it pays out in the long run, Then it can't be claimed they are truly random. Because if they were random, It be a diffirent outcome everytime. Randomness can't be predicted. I also find a win does impact future spins on a slot. And when that slot goes cold, Not only does that slot go cold, But every game in the casino suddenly dries up. And The balance only goes one way from that point. Anyone that thinks slots are really random need to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Greigssy]

I feel that sometimes when I won big it was like I was paying a debt to the casino before I could start winning again.
Also the opposite is true when I lost a large amount and its happened to me on many notable occassions in the past.

I used to go a bit mental on mega-moolah max betting £6.25 within half an hour I could be down £500-£1000.I would then switch slots and on a slightly lower bet I would win huge almost immediately.
Ive had 5 doorbells on the Osbournes twice.5 scatters on Jolly Jester twice. Also £400 a few times on Agent Jane Blonde on a 0.90 spin.I never got any of these type of wins when I first deposited and played.

All these wins always came in within 100 spins after I lost a lot of money in a very short period of time on another slot.

But Iam actually slightly ahead this year at most MG casinos but Iam lowrolling all the time and spreading my play accross casinos from one day to the next.If I get above double my deposit I usually cashout now.

 

[vinylweatherman]

You haven't "tried everything" till you have had a crack at the AWP games

The slots that are promoted heavily are the ones to avoid. Play the ones they keep quiet about.

Many of the newer slots are cleverly designed to give the appearance of being low variance, but are in fact high variance. This is an explanation for how a big win can be cruelly taken back that does not need to include RTP stabilisation as there is in the AWP games.

I have found that jumping from game to game is better than sticking to a persistently cold game because it "gotta pay soon". Sometimes all games are cold, but I often stumble on a hot one. I return to the cold games later in the session to try a few spins. Sometimes they heat up and pay within a dozen spins, sometimes they stay cold for one visit after another.

Higher variance is actually BETTER for players that like to take the bonuses. Under current rules, slots are the BEST games to play with a bonus at MGS, even though the house edge is the highest of all the games on offer.

These "greedy" slots are actually bad for operators, as it increases the risks associated with offering big bonuses to beat the competition.

 

[LHofsdal]

It is not just Microgame....

Maybe it is a sign of the times? It is not just Microgame, I have read on other boards it is just as bad at RTG. One player had 287 spins on a slot without a feature, and this game has 2 features. 2 different features and with 287 spins you still can't get a feature? That there tells me something is not right. It was never like this before the DOJ started butting their nose into things. I remember when I could play MG, and some days were pretty good, other days were not so good. But atleast you have the options to play different platforms. Being from the US, I am pretty much limited.

Everyone has ups and downs, that is true, but it seems that with all the threads with members having a "bad run" the downs are alot more common. One can only wonder if these RTP percentages are actually all that accurate. With all these updates, and the lack of hitting anything, features, 5OAK, it is hard to say. Even though a casino themselves don't change the RTP percentages, can the software providers do it with all these updates without anyone knowing?

I remember when MG had released all these new games, and the winner screen shots were just bombarded with all these spectacular wins, and even today there are some really good ones, but not like there use to be. Of course there are some great screenshots still being posted but most are not from MG or RTG. In all reality, you have to take the good with the bad and if you feel the bad is becoming worse, then it is time to take a break or move on or quit all together.

These casinos are not going to change, there is nothing we can do about it. But if you are really that unhappy with your playtime, Plasticnote, you are doing the right thing. When someone has had enough, it is best just leave and not look back. Just move forward and keep moving. Don't ponder on what could have been, because you will only give yourself gray hair and ulcers. LOL.

Hang in there my fellow CM members, hopefully one day we will be reading some success stories from all of you. And lets hope it is in the near future, not the distant future!!

LH

 

[Bonkerjerks]

As I stated in another thread, the actual concern here isn't RTP, it's actually what's called the volatility of the slot.

The RTP on any licensed slot is thoroughly tested and confirmed by applicable regulatory bodies in that territory. However, volatility has no major regulatory requirements.

Volatility is best described as the "ride" you experience when you play a slot. Volatility comes in many forms, but I'll just talk about the two ends of the spectrum to keep it straightforward. Say you have two slots with the exact same RTP.

Slot #1 is low volatility, which means you win small amounts more often and your money lasts longer, but the game doesn't reward huge wins that often. This is perfect for the entertainment player, who values the experience of play as much as actually winning. This type of slot will not have long cold periods since it awards numerous small amounts, but conversely you won't see the 1000x payoffs.

Slot #2 is high volatility, which means wins are fewer and further between, but big wins are more common. This is designed for the gambler who is looking for that big score. However, because of long cold periods, a lot of players could walk away never having won a cent.

In the end, both slots would pay off to the same RTP, with Slot #1 doing it in a large number of small amounts and Slot #2 doing it in a small number of large amounts. That's volatility at work, showing that RTP is honestly less of a measure of your experience than people think it is, especially since the percentage is theoretical and based on thousands upon thousands of spins.

I hope that helps. I've been pushing for a fuller understanding of volatility as I believe that players who understand it will be better able to find slots that cater towards their playstyle.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm the Casino Game Product Manager for IGT.

 

[threescatters]

Great post Bonkerjerks, thanks. (stop putting ranges in your rtp quotes tho!)

 

[Nifty29]

If these games are truly random, Then a win should have no impact on future spins. But I suspect slots are fixed, If slots are designed to take more back than it pays out in the long run, Then it can't be claimed they are truly random. Because if they were random, It be a diffirent outcome everytime. Randomness can't be predicted. I also find a win does impact future spins on a slot. And when that slot goes cold, Not only does that slot go cold, But every game in the casino suddenly dries up. And The balance only goes one way from that point. Anyone that thinks slots are really random need to wake up and smell the coffee.

You need to understand that slots are "fixed"by their very nature. A slot can be random and "fixed" I.e designed to pay back less than what it put in......but what you're talking about is "rigged".

The problem that you, and some others here, have is that you don't understand randomness. A popular idea seems to be that random means that you should be hitting decent wins regularly, or that a monster win should be able to be repeated fairly easily. Part of that is player psychology, but I'm only going to deal with the idea of "random".

A simple example would be a "cup and ball" game where you have to guess which cup the ball is under after it is randomly placed by the operator. Let's say there are 10 cups. Your odds of choosing the right cup are 1 in 10 (its worthwhile trying this with someone for real).

It is totally possible that you could not find the ball once in the first 50 or even the first 100 spins. Alternatively, you could find it 3 times in a row, or 5 times in the first 20 plays. Now, translate this to a couple of slots players. The first one will be screaming "rigged..there's no way this is random" and the other will be saying "this slot is hot!". Problem is, at some point the roles will be reversed and the first player will say "its about time this slot is alright after all" and the second will say "this slot is rigged its almost like its taking everything back after my big wins'. Truth is, its just the ol' mathematics of chance and probability catching up with both of them. All the while, the cup game (or slot) is 100% random.

The other important aspect is volatility or variance, which was very well explained by the rep in this thread so I won't go there.

Finally, back to the cup game. If the operator charged you $1 per game and gave you $9 every time you picked the right cup, you could easily be $50 down after 50 plays or $40 up after five plays. However, it will even out the more you play and in the long term the operator will keep $1 of every $10 you wager. Sometimes you'll be ahead, sometimes they'll be ahead, but long term you cannot win. A casino version would be where there are thousands of cup games being played simultaneously, where some will losing and others will be winning. It's another misconception.....you might say "I dropped $2k in two days the slots must be rigged etc, when the reality is that most of what you lost has been paid to another player in winnings.

With a view like yours, I'm not surprised you have HAD ENOUTH.

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

Well i could understand "volatility ' when playing 1 particular slot at one particular casino. What about when they all get freezing cold regardless where you play?? How to explain that? And this pretty likely to happen after hitting a big one at casino ABC.

As I stated in another thread, the actual concern here isn't RTP, it's actually what's called the volatility of the slot.

The RTP on any licensed slot is thoroughly tested and confirmed by applicable regulatory bodies in that territory. However, volatility has no major regulatory requirements.

Volatility is best described as the "ride" you experience when you play a slot. Volatility comes in many forms, but I'll just talk about the two ends of the spectrum to keep it straightforward. Say you have two slots with the exact same RTP.

Slot #1 is low volatility, which means you win small amounts more often and your money lasts longer, but the game doesn't reward huge wins that often. This is perfect for the entertainment player, who values the experience of play as much as actually winning. This type of slot will not have long cold periods since it awards numerous small amounts, but conversely you won't see the 1000x payoffs.

Slot #2 is high volatility, which means wins are fewer and further between, but big wins are more common. This is designed for the gambler who is looking for that big score. However, because of long cold periods, a lot of players could walk away never having won a cent.

In the end, both slots would pay off to the same RTP, with Slot #1 doing it in a large number of small amounts and Slot #2 doing it in a small number of large amounts. That's volatility at work, showing that RTP is honestly less of a measure of your experience than people think it is, especially since the percentage is theoretical and based on thousands upon thousands of spins.

I hope that helps. I've been pushing for a fuller understanding of volatility as I believe that players who understand it will be better able to find slots that cater towards their playstyle.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm the Casino Game Product Manager for IGT.

 

[LaHutti]

You need to understand that slots are "fixed"by their very nature. A slot can be random and "fixed" I.e designed to pay back less than what it put in......but what you're talking about is "rigged".

The problem that you, and some others here, have is that you don't understand randomness. A popular idea seems to be that random means that you should be hitting decent wins regularly, or that a monster win should be able to be repeated fairly easily. Part of that is player psychology, but I'm only going to deal with the idea of "random".

A simple example would be a "cup and ball" game where you have to guess which cup the ball is under after it is randomly placed by the operator. Let's say there are 10 cups. Your odds of choosing the right cup are 1 in 10 (its worthwhile trying this with someone for real).

It is totally possible that you could not find the ball once in the first 50 or even the first 100 spins. Alternatively, you could find it 3 times in a row, or 5 times in the first 20 plays. Now, translate this to a couple of slots players. The first one will be screaming "rigged..there's no way this is random" and the other will be saying "this slot is hot!". Problem is, at some point the roles will be reversed and the first player will say "its about time this slot is alright after all" and the second will say "this slot is rigged its almost like its taking everything back after my big wins'. Truth is, its just the ol' mathematics of chance and probability catching up with both of them. All the while, the cup game (or slot) is 100% random.

The other important aspect is volatility or variance, which was very well explained by the rep in this thread so I won't go there.

Finally, back to the cup game. If the operator charged you $1 per game and gave you $9 every time you picked the right cup, you could easily be $50 down after 50 plays or $40 up after five plays. However, it will even out the more you play and in the long term the operator will keep $1 of every $10 you wager. Sometimes you'll be ahead, sometimes they'll be ahead, but long term you cannot win. A casino version would be where there are thousands of cup games being played simultaneously, where some will losing and others will be winning. It's another misconception.....you might say "I dropped $2k in two days the slots must be rigged etc, when the reality is that most of what you lost has been paid to another player in winnings.

With a view like yours, I'm not surprised you have HAD ENOUTH.

Except for the continuous mentioning of enouth's name, in a most annyoing and sarcastic way, I agree 100%
Although we (still) have no way of knowing if these online slots are random, or not, people will lose playing slots. It's a mathematical fact.
Getting a 9K win on BDBA is for the VERY few, and happens so rarely, that I'd say if it happened to op again in the near future, he deserves a spot on the "luckiest winners ever" list.
People can play that game for years, without hitting even a decent win, and betting high on it, is for people with too much money. Losing 10K is as easy, as scratching your butt, while winning 9K is as difficult as making ME scratch your butt.

 

[smcinoz]

I go to work every workday of everyweek to earn money .... i know if i go to work i cant lose anything ..... except my marbles dealing with customers

I play for entertainment value, i dont play everyday or every week and i dont assume when I play I am going to win something and also win big every time.

If i get bored of em I can go and spend 100-150 on some dvd's, a night out on the turps, day at the race etc instead of making another deposit.

The moment i stop enjoying the upswings and downswings of playing the bandits i wont play em anymore.


So i would agree to stop playing if you are not enjoying your time and money spent on the machines.

 

[09237653]

/tinfoil hat mode
I can agree with points made here, I have always suspected big wins are followed by losses to payback the winnings (based on my personal experiences)
ill hit a large (by my standard of play) win which will then be followed by a insane dry spell, until the huge hit comes again followed by another dry spell, rinse repeat.

But at the end of the day random is random.

what would be good if somebody (trusted) could write a program we can all run on our computers while playing that gathers statisitics on all our play and builds up an online database and we can see if these games (slots) really do play ball in the long run.

 

[Osloking]

well mathematicly speaking i have now done almost 320K , 320.000+++ Spins on that damn BDBA and never got 5 saphire, how can you explain that to me? and never got 5 of a kind higher than 10 on freespin.

 

[plasticnote]

Please do not derail this thread, I am not here to talk about long term RTP, variance etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do not understand why every time I have had a big win, then my game play is immediately doomed.

How many people, realize that or have similar experiences?

After a big hit/win, then suddenly all your gaming are doomed.

Have all MG slots been switched to AWP or what?

 

[plasticnote]

/tinfoil hat mode
I can agree with points made here, I have always suspected big wins are followed by losses to payback the winnings (based on my personal experiences)
ill hit a large (by my standard of play) win which will then be followed by a insane dry spell, until the huge hit comes again followed by another dry spell, rinse repeat.

But at the end of the day random is random.

what would be good if somebody (trusted) could write a program we can all run on our computers while playing that gathers statisitics on all our play and builds up an online database and we can see if these games (slots) really do play ball in the long run.

What you said is not called random, if most certain a big win is followed by a bigger lose.

The sequence of events has to be pre-arranged.

Cheers

Plasticnote

 

[plasticnote]

I go to work every workday of everyweek to earn money .... i know if i go to work i cant lose anything ..... except my marbles dealing with customers

I play for entertainment value, i dont play everyday or every week and i dont assume when I play I am going to win something and also win big every time.

If i get bored of em I can go and spend 100-150 on some dvd's, a night out on the turps, day at the race etc instead of making another deposit.

The moment i stop enjoying the upswings and downswings of playing the bandits i wont play em anymore.


So i would agree to stop playing if you are not enjoying your time and money spent on the machines.

thank you for the input, this time, I sure do that.

 

[Osloking]

offcourse is pre determined, why would i get 2 scatters on every time my balance is clear 100,90,80,70, it want you to spin to 99,89,69 then its easy for you to keep playing till you have clear amount again. on thunderstruk 2 you can even see if you win or not before your spin even stop, just set at auto spin and click on stats, the win amount will come way before your spin is done.


im not saying that these slots are rigged or anything! but they somehow sync with your balance.

 

[Nifty29]

Please do not derail this thread, I am not here to talk about long term RTP, variance etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do not understand why every time I have had a big win, then my game play is immediately doomed.

How many people, realize that or have similar experiences?

After a big hit/win, then suddenly all your gaming are doomed.

Have all MG slots been switched to AWP or what?

I'm sorry, but:

1. RTP and variance are EXTREMELY relevant to the topic

2. It's not up to you what others post. Start a blog if you want to filter replies.

The phrase "I do not understand" is by far the most apt statement you've made. Now, there's nothing wrong with that at all, but the fact that you don't want to hear about the 2 primary reasons that explain your experiences shows that you're not interested in knowing the facts and only interested in blaming someone/something else for your losses.

It's like saying "I don't understand why I can't cook steak properly" and then saying "and I don't want to hear anything temperature, cooking time, seasoning etc". Instead, you would insist that its the cow's fault and the butcher didn't cut it correctly.

There is not one aspect of your experience that suggests the games aren't random. Slots like BDBA and LOTR are DESIGNED to payout huge and them pay nothing....its called high v******e. If you want the "ride" to be smoother, play different games.

Obviously, you did not consider the cup game example I provided, but then I'm not surprised. I also don't think you read the IGT reps post either, because if you did you wouldn't be saying what you're saying.

Anyway, I'm wasting my breath. Needless to say, you will continue to have this experience on this kinds of slots and probably continue to post about how rigged they all are. It's a shame, because if you're mind was open you could learn a lot, like I did many years ago, and even improve your bottom line.

 

[rainmaker]

I hope that helps. I've been pushing for a fuller understanding of volatility as I believe that players who understand it will be better able to find slots that cater towards their playstyle.

I agree with you. A better understand of volatility (often referred to as “variance” on this forum) would give players a better gaming experience.

Experienced players, like on this forum will often have a good understanding/feeling whether a game has low or high volatility. Often based on their own experience when playing that game. Other things that may indicate the level of volatility can be for example the paytable and what kind of features the game offers.

We take volatility as granted on this forum. We know and accept that games for example has a high volatility. And that this may lead to long cold periods. It is much “easier” to accept long and cold playing sessions when you have the knowledge about volatility.

But many average players do not have this knowledge. This is problematic. Especially for new and inexperienced players. One can of course only speculate about how many customers you have lost only because they got “killed” by volatility in their first ever gaming session.

The tendency in most industries today are openness and honesty. Detailed information about almost anything you buy today is available. Buy some coffee in your local supermarket and everything you want to know about the beans used in that coffee is available. Or as Nestlé is saying, “it is good to know”.

But casino software developers in general are still doing business in an old fashioned way. They are still paranoid when it comes to releasing information about their games. It is actually quite strange. Information will lead to knowledge, and knowledge will lead to trust. And trust is probably the most important thing in this industry.

If players knew what volatility was about, if they knew more about what kind of a volatility a game has, then I have no doubt that this would give players a better playing experience (and be profitable for both operators and suppliers).

 

[4 of a kind]

The problem here is that nobody, not even the casino promoters can guarantee anything about fairness while gambling online without regulation in place that's being enforced.

If you’re convinced that something is wrong go with your instincts. Going to any forum that promotes what you’re complaining about is ridicules. If you carry on about your believes at these promotional sites, you will eventually be abused and labeled.

People making a living off this stuff can’t help but be biased. Of course this logic doesn’t apply here at this site.

Don’t let anyone here that don’t know anymore then you about how anything actually works within online gaming convince you to keep losing more money if your uncomfortable with the results.

 

[Nifty29]

The problem here is that nobody, not even the casino promoters can guarantee anything about fairness while gambling online without regulation in place that's being enforced.

If you’re convinced that something is wrong go with your instincts. Going to any forum that promotes what you’re complaining about is ridicules. If you carry on about your believes at these promotional sites, you will eventually be abused and labeled.

People making a living off this stuff can’t help but be biased. Of course this logic doesn’t apply here at this site.

Don’t let anyone here that don’t know anymore then you about how anything actually works within online gaming convince you to keep losing more money if your uncomfortable with the results.

Why do you bother coming here?

I mean, since you believe that Bryan (and others here who strangely enough DO NOT make money from the site) deliberately stifles open debate and somehow pays a whole lot of forum members to toe the line, surely your time and effort is wasted here? I've heard the flat Earth society is looking for new members.

If you aren't peddling some tin foil hat theories about the global conspiracy to rip off the world's slot players that should be making a comfortable living, you're taking pot shots at the owner of the site that allows you to peddle it.

Personally, I think you're being incredibly ungrateful.

 

[plasticnote]

I'm sorry, but:

1. RTP and variance are EXTREMELY relevant to the topic

2. It's not up to you what others post. Start a blog if you want to filter replies.

The phrase "I do not understand" is by far the most apt statement you've made. Now, there's nothing wrong with that at all, but the fact that you don't want to hear about the 2 primary reasons that explain your experiences shows that you're not interested in knowing the facts and only interested in blaming someone/something else for your losses.

It's like saying "I don't understand why I can't cook steak properly" and then saying "and I don't want to hear anything temperature, cooking time, seasoning etc". Instead, you would insist that its the cow's fault and the butcher didn't cut it correctly.

There is not one aspect of your experience that suggests the games aren't random. Slots like BDBA and LOTR are DESIGNED to payout huge and them pay nothing....its called high v******e. If you want the "ride" to be smoother, play different games.

Obviously, you did not consider the cup game example I provided, but then I'm not surprised. I also don't think you read the IGT reps post either, because if you did you wouldn't be saying what you're saying.

Anyway, I'm wasting my breath. Needless to say, you will continue to have this experience on this kinds of slots and probably continue to post about how rigged they all are. It's a shame, because if you're mind was open you could learn a lot, like I did many years ago, and even improve your bottom line.

I thank you for your reply. I see where you come from.

You think what I have experienced in the past few months are normal, and it is the nature of slots.

"A big win will certainly guarantee a bigger and swift lose followed immedicately."


I do not want to play this type of slots any more, becasue, a big win will not bring me much fun/happy time rather an ensured pain and torture.

 

[4 of a kind]

Why do you bother coming here?

I mean, since you believe that Bryan (and others here who strangely enough DO NOT make money from the site) deliberately stifles open debate and somehow pays a whole lot of forum members to toe the line, surely your time and effort is wasted here? I've heard the flat Earth society is looking for new members.

If you aren't peddling some tin foil hat theories about the global conspiracy to rip off the world's slot players that should be making a comfortable living, you're taking pot shots at the owner of the site that allows you to peddle it.

Personally, I think you're being incredibly ungrateful.

This reply is a perfect example of how if your opinion doesn't align with theirs, a site regulator will be certain to trash your opinion and modify your post into a personal attack, while trying to convince others that you’re an idiot.

Online casinos should only be regulated and enforced as well.

 

[plasticnote]

Hi All:

I used to be a true believer that slots outcomes are based on luck, the variance of slots is based on the reel map and possibility.

Then I learned that it might be that the slots outcomes are also based on:

1) economy condition
2) the player number at the time you are playing
3) if or not you have won/lost big amount in the very near past
4) the slots is newly released or old
5) Has someone else won/lost big amount in the very near past

And many many more theory...

It makes slots play such a complex thing... I can no longer handle.

I better stick to what I do good at, stocks and shares, at least company trading conditions are published

cheers

plasticnote

 

[bpb]

Sounds like you need to give some serious consideration to quitting gambling altogether.

 

[me_and_ed]

Hi All:

I used to be a true believer that slots outcomes are based on luck, the variance of slots is based on the reel map and possibility.

Then I learned that it might be that the slots outcomes are also based on:

1) economy condition
2) the player number at the time you are playing
3) if or not you have won/lost big amount in the very near past
4) the slots is newly released or old
5) Has someone else won/lost big amount in the very near past

And many many more theory...

It makes slots play such a complex thing... I can no longer handle.

I better stick to what I do good at, stocks and shares, at least company trading conditions are published

cheers

plasticnote

Stay the course my friend.

I have cut my play back by 75% and seem to be right behind you, at then days end house edge rules regardlss of RTP, Variance or volatility, its a business.

Good luck, its a tough one to give up!!!

 

[LaHutti]

well mathematicly speaking i have now done almost 320K , 320.000+++ Spins on that damn BDBA and never got 5 saphire, how can you explain that to me? and never got 5 of a kind higher than 10 on freespin.

By me hitting them 4 times in half the spins, for example.

 

[randomplay]

You need to understand that slots are "fixed"by their very nature. A slot can be random and "fixed" I.e designed to pay back less than what it put in......but what you're talking about is "rigged" [...]

Finally, back to the cup game. If the operator charged you $1 per game and gave you $9 every time you picked the right cup, you could easily be $50 down after 50 plays or $40 up after five plays. However, it will even out the more you play and in the long term the operator will keep $1 of every $10 you wager. Sometimes you'll be ahead, sometimes they'll be ahead, but long term you cannot win. A casino version would be where there are thousands of cup games being played simultaneously, where some will losing and others will be winning. It's another misconception.....you might say "I dropped $2k in two days the slots must be rigged etc, when the reality is that most of what you lost has been paid to another player in winnings.

Hi,

I hope I'm not being off topic. Considering Plasticnote's concern and Nifty's explanation is it possible to say that online roulette can also be considered as a slot machine? By that I would like to understand if the RNG software used by casinos for e.g. in roulette are "hard wired" to control the house edge and the RTP? If so, then when loosing let's say an "even" bet on roulette, would the result be determined a priori by the software before the spin takes place? If so...is that legal/moral? Wouldn't that explain some bad feelings reported by many players? Thanks for your input! Cheers.

 

[retlaw]

I fully agree with you plasticnote.
I experienced the same over and over again.
A big win (in my case big is 1k) , and I speak for myself,is always followed by losing a lot more than what I did win.
February 1, I did win 1400 euro, since then till today, I lost 4500 euro

It has nothing to do with RTP, because I am mainly a VP player.
I think VP JOB is not a high variance game,but after hitting a RF, it becomes "ice cold".
Then I try playing different VP games and slots, but impossible to get a decent win.

What the reason is for this phenomenon, I really don't know, but I am sure it is not normal.
I know many players have experienced the same and did stop playing for that reason.

You made the right decision with quiting online gambling

 

[Pinababy69]

Plasticnote, as a previous poster in the thread mentioned, you should seriously consider quitting gambling altogether. I do believe that you had a previous username here....oyw7862, and that you were in the Quit Gambling usergroup. The only reason I know this is because at the same time that you won a random JP at Inetbet, and posted it here as plasticnote, there was a congrats scrolling across the Inet lobby, congratulating oyw7862.

Your previous profile:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

And a previous ten page thread on MG software, and your decision to quit playing it:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...you-have-lost-one-loyal-player-s-trust.26877/

Please take the advice of some here, and quit gambling. This isn't the first time that you have started threads about MG, and even after winning TEN RJ's on RTG, you still believe the software is fixed/rigged/not random. I have been playing online since 2000, and since the induction of Random Jackpots, have never even come close to winning one. And there are many other players in the same position.

When gambling is no longer enjoyable and/or entertaining, it is time to quit. When you chase losses on a regular basis, it is time to quit. If you don't believe that the games/software you are playing is fair, it is time to quit. And when you are spending more than you win, even after winning 10K plus, it is definitely time to quit. As Nifty mentioned, slots are a long term losing proposition, not a moneymaker. The ONLY way to come out ahead in the long run, is to take a big win and run for the hills.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Nifty29]

I fully agree with you plasticnote.
I experienced the same over and over again.
A big win (in my case big is 1k) , and I speak for myself,is always followed by losing a lot more than what I did win.
February 1, I did win 1400 euro, since then till today, I lost 4500 euro

It has nothing to do with RTP, because I am mainly a VP player.
I think VP JOB is not a high variance game,but after hitting a RF, it becomes "ice cold".
Then I try playing different VP games and slots, but impossible to get a decent win.

What the reason is for this phenomenon, I really don't know, but I am sure it is not normal.
I know many players have experienced the same and did stop playing for that reason.

You made the right decision with quiting online gambling

Actually, it has everything to do with RTP. VP has a theoretical RTP just like a slots, its just that it is controlled by the paytable e.g. 9/7, 8/6. Otherwise, casino wouldn't be able to make a decent profit. It's very easy to lose your bankroll on a 99.5% JOB game....its just that the average swings are smaller. I'm not sure where you got the idea that RTP was only about slots?

Plasticnote......I can't stand people who try and trick the membership and take advantage of them....which is what pretending to be someone else amounts to. It makes me sick, and shows just how desperate you are, and how much notice members should take of your uninformed rantings. I hope Bryan bans you for everyones sake.

 

[plasticnote]

Plasticnote, as a previous poster in the thread mentioned, you should seriously consider quitting gambling altogether. I do believe that you had a previous username here....oyw7862, and that you were in the Quit Gambling usergroup. The only reason I know this is because at the same time that you won a random JP at Inetbet, and posted it here as plasticnote, there was a congrats scrolling across the Inet lobby, congratulating oyw7862.

Your previous profile:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

And a previous ten page thread on MG software, and your decision to quit playing it:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...you-have-lost-one-loyal-player-s-trust.26877/

Please take the advice of some here, and quit gambling. This isn't the first time that you have started threads about MG, and even after winning TEN RJ's on RTG, you still believe the software is fixed/rigged/not random. I have been playing online since 2000, and since the induction of Random Jackpots, have never even come close to winning one. And there are many other players in the same position.

When gambling is no longer enjoyable and/or entertaining, it is time to quit. When you chase losses on a regular basis, it is time to quit. If you don't believe that the games/software you are playing is fair, it is time to quit. And when you are spending more than you win, even after winning 10K plus, it is definitely time to quit. As Nifty mentioned, slots are a long term losing proposition, not a moneymaker. The ONLY way to come out ahead in the long run, is to take a big win and run for the hills.

Best of luck to you.

I have to say, you are wrong, we are close friends because we worked together, speak same language and once upon a time, we shared the same OZ lotto ticket number with a windfall.

I thank you for the input, all I can say is that notes have been taken.

PS: I do not try to insult but the reason you did not win a single RJ, is because you were not slightly close to the level we were playing at

Cheers

Plasticnote

 

[plasticnote]

Actually, it has everything to do with RTP. VP has a theoretical RTP just like a slots, its just that it is controlled by the paytable e.g. 9/7, 8/6. Otherwise, casino wouldn't be able to make a decent profit. It's very easy to lose your bankroll on a 99.5% JOB game....its just that the average swings are smaller. I'm not sure where you got the idea that RTP was only about slots?

Plasticnote......I can't stand people who try and trick the membership and take advantage of them....which is what pretending to be someone else amounts to. It makes me sick, and shows just how desperate you are, and how much notice members should take of your uninformed rantings. I hope Bryan bans you for everyones sake.

Hi Nifty:

With all due repect, the actual person should be banned is you.

When I start to discuss with my true feeling, you jump in and try many ways to derail my thread.

Then, when people share the similar experience together, you start personal insults.

If Bryan bans me, I have nothing to say, he is a nice guy also Max, even my friend got banned from this site, Max still tried to help with the last PAB.

And only thing I have noticed is that you try to block other people 's talk, have you ever tried to help any one?

That is my last post, as long as you still in this fourm, I will not participate any longer.

And thank you for the rest of you, my friend - Nate, Oslking ... farewell...

Sincerely;

plasticnote

 

[retlaw]

Actually, it has everything to do with RTP. VP has a theoretical RTP just like a slots, its just that it is controlled by the paytable e.g. 9/7, 8/6. Otherwise, casino wouldn't be able to make a decent profit. It's very easy to lose your bankroll on a 99.5% JOB game....its just that the average swings are smaller. I'm not sure where you got the idea that RTP was only about slots?

Of course I know that VP has an RTP, but 99.5% compared with approx. 95% for slots normally would make a big difference (IMHO).
I am not going to discuss this any further, I will call the phenomenon : sequential bad luck which always starts after a big win, with an unknown reason.

 

[Nifty29]

I have to say, you are wrong, we are close friends because we worked together, speak same language and once upon a time, we shared the same OZ lotto ticket number with a windfall.
I thank you for the input, all I can say is that notes have been taken.

PS: I do not try to insult but the reason you did not win a single RJ, is because you were not slightly close to the level we were playing at

Cheers

Plasticnote

Wow. You really think were THAT dense?

YOU claimed to have won a RJ when in fact it was your "friend" (who just happens to be a self excluded member) who won it. Whether or not your "friend" shared a windfall or anything else for that matter is irrelevant.

Fact is, you either:

1. Are actually your "friend" and using a different alias, or

2. are using your "friend's" inetbet account (which I am sure they would be interested in), or

3. running 2 accounts at inetbet I.e. yours and your "friend". Unless you have permission from inetbet, then I doubt this is the case. We'll see what the casino says when the rep looks into things in the next few days.

Of course, Bryan or Max will be checking IP addresses etc at the forum so unless you're conveniently living with your "friend", then matching IPs would confirm what i suspect I.e. that you're actually the other oyw person or at least using their identity somehow.

Your comment about pinababy not being at the same level.....well it's pretty much saying she, and most others, are just piddlers who are nowhere near as important as you. It shows at the very least that you have no class.....and the fact is that's something that all the money in the world and all the lottery wins cannot buy you.

As for the "notes are being taken" stuff.....WTH is that all about? Some kind of threat? Honestly.....get a grip.

I'm sorry now that I spent even one minute of my life helping you to understand casino gambling. You're into shares, which is just another form of gambling. You know what they say about a fool and their money.....and based on that your money will disappear one day.

 

[plasticnote]

OK, this is internet bullying.

I call Bryan to check the IP.

I can not take it much more...

Wow. You really think were THAT dense?

YOU claimed to have won a RJ when in fact it was your "friend" (who just happens to be a self excluded member) who won it. Whether or not your "friend" shared a windfall or anything else for that matter is irrelevant.

Fact is, you either:

1. Are actually your "friend" and using a different alias, or

2. are using your "friend's" inetbet account (which I am sure they would be interested in), or

3. running 2 accounts at inetbet I.e. yours and your "friend". Unless you have permission from inetbet, then I doubt this is the case. We'll see what the casino says when the rep looks into things in the next few days.

Of course, Bryan or Max will be checking IP addresses etc at the forum so unless you're conveniently living with your "friend", then matching IPs would confirm what i suspect I.e. that you're actually the other oyw person or at least using their identity somehow.

Your comment about pinababy not being at the same level.....well it's pretty much saying she, and most others, are just piddlers who are nowhere near as important as you. It shows at the very least that you have no class.....and the fact is that's something that all the money in the world and all the lottery wins cannot buy you.

As for the "notes are being taken" stuff.....WTH is that all about? Some kind of threat? Honestly.....get a grip.

I'm sorry now that I spent even one minute of my life helping you to understand casino gambling. You're into shares, which is just another form of gambling. You know what they say about a fool and their money.....and based on that your money will disappear one day.

 

[Nifty29]

Hi Nifty:

With all due repect, the actual person should be banned is you.

When I start to discuss with my true feeling, you jump in and try many ways to derail my thread.

Then, when people share the similar experience together, you start personal insults.

If Bryan bans me, I have nothing to say, he is a nice guy also Max, even my friend got banned from this site, Max still tried to help with the last PAB.

And only thing I have noticed is that you try to block other people 's talk, have you ever tried to help any one?

That is my last post, as long as you still in this fourm, I will not participate any longer.

And thank you for the rest of you, my friend - Nate, Oslking ... farewell...

Sincerely;

plasticnote

Have I ever tried to help anyone? Are you KIDDING me? Did you READ this thread at ALL? I was helping you quite a lot. I was taking time to explain to you how things actually work and therefore improve your gambling experience.....but all you can come up with is "big bad nifty stifles debate and tries to block other people and stops people expressing their feelings". Well, I'm not surprised. I've heard it all before....after all, its the last (and sometimes) first resort of those who refuse to accept facts and refuse to take responsibility for their gambling, along with those who just don't want to hear anything that disturbs their fantasy world. As I said earlier, if you only want people who share your fantasy to reply then start a blog. If you are going to post stuff that is just plain incorrect and uninformed in a public forum, then you need to accept that others are going to point out your errors.....and, if you refuse to take it on board, treat you with the same respect that you would pay someone who ignores your efforts to help you understand the realities of something.

I can see that you're just trying to divert attention away from your own situation by trying to start another "nifty bash" or "I don't post anymore because of nifty" load of shite. If you don't post that is YOUR choice. Same with anyone else. Blaming someone else for your own unwillingness to debate or discuss your theories is elementary school stuff.

Anyway, let's see what CM and inetbet comes up with eh? If I'm wrong I will, as always, admit it and apologise if necessary. The fact that you seem willing to accept a ban seems very odd though...

P.S. an IP check.probably won't reveal much anyway. The other user hasn't done anything since 2009 so the physical address or ISP could easily have changed since then.

 

[plasticnote]

Then after your post, I have given the reply, you even thanked me. I think we were settled, then you start attacking me again.

I said I quit, you still keep bullying me, what you want Nifty?

"On page 4 of this thread, I said I do not want to play this kind of game anymore..." you thanked me, I really mean it.

Tell me Nifty, why you start attacking me again?

Let us make a friendly deal to settle this once for all, the bet is the membership on this forum. I ensure you this is the last bet I ever placed, with my most chrished forum membership.

Does that fit you?

Have I ever tried to help anyone? Are you KIDDING me? Did you READ this thread at ALL? I was helping you quite a lot. I was taking time to explain to you how things actually work and therefore improve your gambling experience.....but all you can come up with is "big bad nifty stifles debate and tries to block other people and stops people expressing their feelings". Well, I'm not surprised. I've heard it all before....after all, its the last (and sometimes) first resort of those who refuse to accept facts and refuse to take responsibility for their gambling, along with those who just don't want to hear anything that disturbs their fantasy world. As I said earlier, if you only want people who share your fantasy to reply then start a blog. If you are going to post stuff that is just plain incorrect and uninformed in a public forum, then you need to accept that others are going to point out your errors.....and, if you refuse to take it on board, treat you with the same respect that you would pay someone who ignores your efforts to help you understand the realities of something.

I can see that you're just trying to divert attention away from your own situation by trying to start another "nifty bash" or "I don't post anymore because of nifty" load of shite. If you don't post that is YOUR choice. Same with anyone else. Blaming someone else for your own unwillingness to debate or discuss your theories is elementary school stuff.

Anyway, let's see what CM and inetbet comes up with eh? If I'm wrong I will, as always, admit it and apologise if necessary.