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This is the end of playing Microgaming for me

Then after your post, I have given the reply, you even thanked me. I think we were settled, then you start attacking me again.

I said I quit, you still keep bullying me, what you want Nifty?

"On page 4 of this thread, I said I do not want to play this kind of game anymore..." you thanked me, I really mean it.

Tell me Nifty, why you start attacking me again?

Let us make a friendly deal to settle this once for all, the bet is the membership on this forum.

Is that fits you?

....because your identity, and therefore your reputation, has been called into question. Also, you accused me of never helping anyone when I obviously helped you by your own admission. I have no desire to attack or bully anyone......I just don't mince my words and I cannot stand dishonesty and having the trust of the membership abused.

If it turns out pinababy is wrong, then I will apologize and happily cease questioning you and agree to let bygones be bygones. As I said, let's see what inetbet (who have been informed) and Bryan have to say.
 
....because your identity, and therefore your reputation, has been called into question. Also, you accused me of never helping anyone when I obviously helped you by your own admission. I have no desire to attack or bully anyone......I just don't mince my words and I cannot stand dishonesty and having the trust of the membership abused.

If it turns out pinababy is wrong, then I will apologize and happily cease questioning you and agree to let bygones be bygones. As I said, let's see what inetbet (who have been informed) and Bryan have to say.

OK, I agreed on this.
 
From list of winners at Inetbet:

Old / Expired Link

oyw7862 6/04/11 Coat of Arms (Minor Jackpot) $675.87

So...the Coat of Arms minor jackpot on June 4, 2011.

And the screenshot you posted here on June 4, 2011...the minor jackpot at Inetbet on Coat of Arms.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/winner-screenshots.4193/

It's post #21190, posted as Plasticnote. So either you are oyw7862, or you are posting your "friend's" screenshot as your own, or this is the biggest coincidence in the world. Either way, I don't really care, and if I am wrong, then I will apologize. The point I was trying to make is that someone who joined the "Quit Gambling" usergroup here, should not be signing up a new username, and continuing to play. It wasn't my intention to start a big fight. If you are oyw7862, then you obviously felt strongly enough previous to say you were quitting, yet you continue to play, and then when you lose....you cry rigged. And you are obviously chasing your losses, as well as pissing away big wins. It doesn't seem to matter if you win or lose, you are not happy...and that is a huge warning sign of someone who shouldn't be playing.

Much like Nifty, I also believe that people should not be allowed to have more than one account here, especially when the reason that the other account was closed/limited, was due to a gambling problem. There is a reason that Bryan will not reverse the limitations placed on the "Quit Gambling" usergroup.

EDIT: Came across something else Plasticnote. This post here:

Only if you know how much I spent to hit 2 RJs last month at INET and afterwards, how bad my game played. You will feel lucky you did not get them.

Would you like spend 11.5 K in exchange to win 2 RJs total 4K+?:(:(

You posted that in January, 2011. So I went and checked the Inet Winner's Page again:

oyw7862 12/22/10 Return of the Rudolph ( Jackpot) $3250.36

oyw7862 11/25/10 Triple Twister (Minor Jackpot) $751.86


So, two jackpots totalling 4K in the previous month, but you say you're not oyw7862? Sorry, but I don't believe you.
 
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Hi,
I hope I'm not being off topic. Considering Plasticnote's concern and Nifty's explanation is it possible to say that online roulette can also be considered as a slot machine? By that I would like to understand if the RNG software used by casinos for e.g. in roulette are "hard wired" to control the house edge and the RTP? If so, then when loosing let's say an "even" bet on roulette, would the result be determined a priori by the software before the spin takes place? If so...is that legal/moral? Wouldn't that explain some bad feelings reported by many players? Thanks for your input! Cheers.
There is absolutely no need for any casinos to "rig" in any way their Roulette.
The number of spots round the wheel and the pay-table GUARANTEE that in the long run the casino will make 2.7027%* profit off every single bet which is placed anywhere on the table. (* Euro single-zero Roulette)
It is simple mathematics.

This is relevant to the conversation, because Video Slots could be considered as absolutely fricking enormous roulette wheels with literally millions of spots. Each spot has a pay-out attached to it - of which 40% to 60% will be 0 x bet, loads will be small to medium wins, and only a handful of spots pay the jackpot.
Now if you add up ALL the possible payouts from ALL the spots and divide it by the total number of spots you will get something in the region of a 95% return to player (RTP).
So when you spin this enormous wheel, the casino can afford to let the ball land anywhere completely at random, because just like the regular Roulette wheel - their long term profit is 100% guaranteed.

KK
 
or you are posting your "friend's" screenshot as your own

We are close friend and he could not get his old account back.

We are very close just like this:

I did a quick google on "Pinababy69 + Nifty29", there are 670 links.

To compare I did my username with all my friends at CM, very few.

Number does not lie...

Can you have a BFF on internet forum, why can not I have a close friend in my real life?

You may not realize, but you do team up.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel tired and I never think I will be involved in this type of thread, it is not fun for me, I will not reply any of your posts any more.

And I sure you that you have won... I will not come back...

thanks
 
We are close friend and he could not get his old account back.

We are very close just like this:

I did a quick google on "Pinababy69 + Nifty29", there are 670 links.

To compare I did my username with all my friends at CM, very few.

Number does not lie...

Can you have a BFF on internet forum, why can not I have a close friend in my real life?

You may not realize, but you do team up.

?? We seem to have a problem with the concept of logic.

Nifty29 is not in the habit of posting Pina's winning screenshots as his own. (or vice-versa) Nor or either of them locked out for having quit gambling. Nor do they even live on the same continent... etc., etc., ad infinitum

(p.s.: Thanks for the detective work Pina. I don't have the patience anymore.)
 
We are close friend and he could not get his old account back.

We are very close just like this:

I did a quick google on "Pinababy69 + Nifty29", there are 670 links.

To compare I did my username with all my friends at CM, very few.

Number does not lie...

Can you have a BFF on internet forum, why can not I have a close friend in my real life?

You may not realize, but you do team up.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel tired and I never think I will be involved in this type of thread, it is not fun for me, I will not reply any of your posts any more.

And I sure you that you have won... I will not come back...

thanks

Sorry oyw7862, but the new information Pina has unearthed pretty much proves you are who she says you are.

The only reason you don't want to keep going is that you know you've been sprung and it's only going to get worse from this point onwards once Bryan and Inetbet get involved.

Regarding the connection between Pinababy and myself....PMSL!! Are you SERIOUS?? Thankyou so much for the laugh I really needed it. Can you show me where your "friend" posted in the same thread as you? Or where he welcomed you? Why didn't you have an account before he was banned? He suddenly decided, after being sent to the quitting group, that he would tell you what a great forum it was and so you just had to sign up?? Give me a break.

At the end of the day oyw7862, it doesn't matter why you created your plasticnote account....it's against the rules and for a good reason. Someone coming back under another username doesn't actually bother me at all, as long as they are upfront about it and don't prey on the goodwill of the membership by abusing their trust. You weren't upfront about it, because you knew you would be banned, but the inevitable has occurred i.e. you got caught...and you've lost all respect from most members as a result. Hardly worthwhile was it?

Just be honest and come clean. Maybe then some might still have some respect for you, and Bryan might even let you stay in the non-gamblers group.
 
Man that thunderstruck II games is greedy as sin! I stopped counting at 500 spins without a bonus round. It must have went close to 700 spins before I just left. Free chips dont leave a sting in your mouth though :)

I saw someone in here say a forum member stated they didnt get a free spin in 287 spins on RTG. Im going to contact support and ask them about my cold run and to provide the actual stats. I played on one of their medium variance slots machines and it too had numerous features. I spun at least 600 times and didnt hit it.
 
Regardless of whatever regarding other usernames on here (true or not I dont care) plasticnote you are one of the good guys on this forum, and I always enjoy your posts in threads. I cannot remember seeing you say anything bad about another user and you always try and help fellow gamblers/praise good casinos. It is a shame to see you go if you do go and if you are leaving I hope it is because you want to quit/take a break from gambling (which would be the right reason to) and not because of this thread, which would be a real shame.

There is a key point mentioned above about the multiple forum accounts thing, about trust and goodwill. Personally I think the only time there is a problem with multiple forum accounts is if a user initiates a PAB process, or trys to exert pressure on another user/casino. Clearly in those cases the user would have malicious/devious intent behind changing their identity and I could understand the witch hunt/banning. I don't however think theres any problem with someone posting screenshots, or chat type threads about casino games with a new account personally. I do understand why the rules exist on here tho, thats just my opinion.

Nifty I think you are an intelligent and experienced member but your being a little OTT here on plasticnote. plasticnote has not tried to deceive anyone about anything no matter what the case with multiple forum accounts. Who cares what name a screenshot was posted under!

Anyway have a good day guys.

P.S. Microgaming slots are not rigged! Just remember, a slot can be given any reels the operator wants, and any chance of hitting something and it cant be "rigged" - its not like a virtual deck of cards.

P.P.S Good luck with quitting gambling plasticnote, if that is your choice it is the right one imo.
 
Regardless of whatever regarding other usernames on here (true or not I dont care) plasticnote you are one of the good guys on this forum, and I always enjoy your posts in threads. I cannot remember seeing you say anything bad about another user and you always try and help fellow gamblers/praise good casinos. It is a shame to see you go if you do go and if you are leaving I hope it is because you want to quit/take a break from gambling (which would be the right reason to) and not because of this thread, which would be a real shame.

There is a key point mentioned above about the multiple forum accounts thing, about trust and goodwill. Personally I think the only time there is a problem with multiple forum accounts is if a user initiates a PAB process, or trys to exert pressure on another user/casino. Clearly in those cases the user would have malicious/devious intent behind changing their identity and I could understand the witch hunt/banning. I don't however think theres any problem with someone posting screenshots, or chat type threads about casino games with a new account personally. I do understand why the rules exist on here tho, thats just my opinion.

Nifty I think you are an intelligent and experienced member but your being a little OTT here on plasticnote. plasticnote has not tried to deceive anyone about anything no matter what the case with multiple forum accounts. Who cares what name a screenshot was posted under!

Anyway have a good day guys.

P.S. Microgaming slots are not rigged! Just remember, a slot can be given any reels the operator wants, and any chance of hitting something and it cant be "rigged" - its not like a virtual deck of cards.

P.P.S Good luck with quitting gambling plasticnote, if that is your choice it is the right one imo.

Well you're entitled to your view.

He misrepresented himself to everyone which is flat out lying and deception and its the kind of thing that a forum.doesn't need IMO. I also don't care what he wins and what he loses. I used to care about his opinions, but I can't respect someone who doesn't have the guts to be upfront about who he is.
 
Man that thunderstruck II games is greedy as sin! I stopped counting at 500 spins without a bonus round. It must have went close to 700 spins before I just left. Free chips dont leave a sting in your mouth though :)

I saw someone in here say a forum member stated they didnt get a free spin in 287 spins on RTG. Im going to contact support and ask them about my cold run and to provide the actual stats. I played on one of their medium variance slots machines and it too had numerous features. I spun at least 600 times and didnt hit it.

My record on TS2 (always check your player stats) without a bonus was 1357 spins over 2.3 hours.........
I once downloaded and played it at a new MG casino and it took 7 1/2 hours to get my first MildDrizzle feaure - which paid 1/3 of a credit.......
 
well mathematicly speaking i have now done almost 320K , 320.000+++ Spins on that damn BDBA and never got 5 saphire, how can you explain that to me? and never got 5 of a kind higher than 10 on freespin.

Wait.. 320.000 spins and you never hit the A,Q,K (or higher) + wild in free spins on BDBA?:eek2:
Sapphires are rare, they can elude you for a long time, but especially K's and Q's are quite common, even in free spins.

If you play 600 spins per hour, that would mean 320.000 spins take 22 days of playing 24 hours a day!

If I look at my own play, and how often I've hit Q's and K's in free spins, you must be the most unlucky BDBA player ever set foot on this planet.
Hope your luck turns for the better..
 
I'm sorry, but:

1. RTP and variance are EXTREMELY relevant to the topic

2. It's not up to you what others post. Start a blog if you want to filter replies.

The phrase "I do not understand" is by far the most apt statement you've made. Now, there's nothing wrong with that at all, but the fact that you don't want to hear about the 2 primary reasons that explain your experiences shows that you're not interested in knowing the facts and only interested in blaming someone/something else for your losses.

It's like saying "I don't understand why I can't cook steak properly" and then saying "and I don't want to hear anything temperature, cooking time, seasoning etc". Instead, you would insist that its the cow's fault and the butcher didn't cut it correctly.

There is not one aspect of your experience that suggests the games aren't random. Slots like BDBA and LOTR are DESIGNED to payout huge and them pay nothing....its called high v******e. If you want the "ride" to be smoother, play different games.

Obviously, you did not consider the cup game example I provided, but then I'm not surprised. I also don't think you read the IGT reps post either, because if you did you wouldn't be saying what you're saying.

Anyway, I'm wasting my breath. Needless to say, you will continue to have this experience on this kinds of slots and probably continue to post about how rigged they all are. It's a shame, because if you're mind was open you could learn a lot, like I did many years ago, and even improve your bottom line.


This is what I was trying to tell you in the other thread; the ladders/layers will contain awards that you RNG pulls containing a lot of zeros and a few large ones. The bag contains a different selection of balls.......
 
Hi All:

I used to be a true believer that slots outcomes are based on luck, the variance of slots is based on the reel map and possibility.

Then I learned that it might be that the slots outcomes are also based on:

1) economy condition
2) the player number at the time you are playing
3) if or not you have won/lost big amount in the very near past
4) the slots is newly released or old
5) Has someone else won/lost big amount in the very near past

And many many more theory...

It makes slots play such a complex thing... I can no longer handle.

I better stick to what I do good at, stocks and shares, at least company trading conditions are published

cheers

plasticnote

There is no meaning to what you see on the reels - they are simply a way of representing an award from the possible amounts for the game, selected from the payout layers/ladders. Take TS2 and IR for example. You have different symbols and arrangement of wilds, but the awards are the same as TS2. It (IR) would be known as a 'reglass' if it was a physical land-based slot. IR merely uses the same payout ladders with different representations. It is a CLONE.
 
This is what I was trying to tell you in the other thread; the ladders/layers will contain awards that you RNG pulls containing a lot of zeros and a few large ones. The bag contains a different selection of balls.......

If it is the same bag that you pull your theories from, then it contains more than balls.... :eek:

Just be careful not to walk too close to the horizon so you don't fall over the edge.
 
Take TS2 and IR for example. You have different symbols and arrangement of wilds, but the awards are the same as TS2. It (IR) would be known as a 'reglass' if it was a physical land-based slot. IR merely uses the same payout ladders with different representations. It is a CLONE.
That is not true. They are similar games - but definitely not clones.
The pay table for all the "regular" symbols it the same, but not for the Wilds:

5 Wilds: TS2 x 1000 ~ IR x 1500
4 Wilds: TS2 x 200 ~ IR x 250
3 Wilds: TS2 x 75 ~ IR x 100

Also the reel layouts are very different, for example:
The Lady in Red on IR (the equivalent symbol to Thor on TS2) appears next to or close to a wild on most reels - Thor does not.
There are a lot more scatters on reel 1 of IR than on TS2
Etc...

Finally, the free-spins and Wild Desire/Wild Storm features work slightly differently.

So I would say IR is based on TS2 - but it's not a clone of it.

KK
 
That is not true. They are similar games - but definitely not clones.
The pay table for all the "regular" symbols it the same, but not for the Wilds:

5 Wilds: TS2 x 1000 ~ IR x 1500
4 Wilds: TS2 x 200 ~ IR x 250
3 Wilds: TS2 x 75 ~ IR x 100

Also the reel layouts are very different, for example:
The Lady in Red on IR (the equivalent symbol to Thor on TS2) appears next to or close to a wild on most reels - Thor does not.
There are a lot more scatters on reel 1 of IR than on TS2
Etc...

Finally, the free-spins and Wild Desire/Wild Storm features work slightly differently.

So I would say IR is based on TS2 - but it's not a clone of it.

KK


Maybe bustedflush can prove they're the same using his "snakes and ladders" RNG theory.....or maybe even the "cluedo" or "stratego" theories.
 
I have made my mind of quit playing Microgaming, closed all my MG accounts in 32red plc.
I have to say, 32red casinos are still the best in my mind, I just get disapointed by Microgaming software.
I have played at 32red on daily base, have good wins, bad run all the time.
I have noticed a certain disturbing fact. Every time I have a good win put me ahead, the extreame bad run is immediately followed.
And it lasts long and hard based on how much you won.I have to say, this is a un-natural way correcting RTP IMO...

I, as a slots player, has already beared with 5% house edge, can not take much on this kind of RTP correction any longer.
Actually, I have experienced similar situations 3 times in the past 4 months without single exception.
When the extreme bad run kicks in, games are just unbearable.

I have tried various way to overcome this situation, however, all failed.
To a point, I have to admit, I can not fight against a determined software system.
No matter how much i have put in and no matter how dedicated i played.

Played Microgaming many long years, I think this is a sufficient reason to convince myself to quit all together.

Cheers

Plasticnote

Hello Plasticnote;
I agree with you. Drop Microgaming! I played with them for years and lost thousands of dollars without ever cashing out. I was glad when the US government took away that damn "golden goose." *looking over my shoulder to see if the forum detectives/police will report me to casino rewards (where I used to play)*
:D
 
I have made my mind of quit playing Microgaming, closed all my MG accounts in 32red plc.
I have to say, 32red casinos are still the best in my mind, I just get disapointed by Microgaming software.
I have played at 32red on daily base, have good wins, bad run all the time.
I have noticed a certain disturbing fact. Every time I have a good win put me ahead, the extreame bad run is immediately followed.
And it lasts long and hard based on how much you won.I have to say, this is a un-natural way correcting RTP IMO...

I, as a slots player, has already beared with 5% house edge, can not take much on this kind of RTP correction any longer.
Actually, I have experienced similar situations 3 times in the past 4 months without single exception.
When the extreme bad run kicks in, games are just unbearabl
I have tried various way to overcome this situation, however, all failed.
To a point, I have to admit, I can not fight against a determined software system.
No matter how much i have put in and no matter how dedicated i played.

Played Microgaming many long years, I think this is a sufficient reason to convince myself to quit all together.

Cheers

Plasticnote

Feel for you mate ...You just articulated the reason behind my post here.

Exactly the same scenario ... Tried everything and it is all bad... And yes it is MG as every casino still pushes out same dry runs on the same machines after I hit 50k on MG... Yes the common link between all MG.
 
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Feel for you mate ...You just articulated the reason behind my post here.

Exactly the same scenario ... Tried everything and it is all bad... And yes it is MG as every casino still pushes out same dry runs on the same machines after I hit 50k on MG... Yes the common link between all MG.

Actually, its just slots doing what slots do best....take your money.

All the stuff about common links and dry runs is absolutely right....it applies to all casinos regardless of software....and it is NORMAL.

It's not about MG cheating or seeded RNGs or other tinfoil hat theories or anything else....it is about human nature. You are looking for ways to explain your losses and convince yourself it is the software, when, in fact, it is YOU.....YOU gambled your money on a game with a big house edge, and, as expected, you had a few big wins but mostly losses.

A poor tradesman always blames his tools.
 
Actually, its just slots doing what slots do best....take your money.

All the stuff about common links and dry runs is absolutely right....it applies to all casinos regardless of software....and it is NORMAL.

It's not about MG cheating or seeded RNGs or other tinfoil hat theories or anything else....it is about human nature. You are looking for ways to explain your losses and convince yourself it is the software, when, in fact, it is YOU.....YOU gambled your money on a game with a big house edge, and, as expected, you had a few big wins but mostly losses.

A poor tradesman always blames his tools.

Ok, with all due respect... I think this is where you always sound condescending towards other players. Sorry mate, in your own head you might think you know more than others , but please be careful how you put across your assumptions and opinions.

No point of time did I say it is the casinos fault, or the word cheating or even trying to explain my losses... That is YOUR assumption. I have read through quite a few of your posts. While in every single one of them you try to act very rational in your opinion about the wins and losses, you are absolutely downright condescending towards other players.

May be you know more... Maybe you don't ... Doesn't matter, you are not everyone ... You do not and can not know EVERY scenario possible.

Please don't latch onto other peoples bad experiences and vent out your own frustrations.

BTW... I am not blaming my "tools" at all... I love my "tools" cause it gave me 150k+ wins !
 
Ok, with all due respect... I think this is where you always sound condescending towards other players. Sorry mate, in your own head you might think you know more than others , but please be careful how you put across your assumptions and opinions.

No point of time did I say it is the casinos fault, or the word cheating or even trying to explain my losses... That is YOUR assumption. I have read through quite a few of your posts. While in every single one of them you try to act very rational in your opinion about the wins and losses, you are absolutely downright condescending towards other players.

May be you know more... Maybe you don't ... Doesn't matter, you are not everyone ... You do not and can not know EVERY scenario possible.

Please don't latch onto other peoples bad experiences and vent out your own frustrations.

BTW... I am not blaming my "tools" at all... I love my "tools" cause it gave me 150k+ wins !

Whatever.

You can continue blaming the software (which IS what you're doing).

If you don't want people's opinion about your experiences don't post them in a public forum. I'm entitled to my opinion, and entitled to present facts to argue or make a point.

Don't start off with "OK with all due respect" when all you're going to do is slag me off. I didn't insult you personally so I don't expect to be insulted. I obviously struck a nerve.
 
Whatever.

You can continue blaming the software (which IS what you're doing).

If you don't want people's opinion about your experiences don't post them in a public forum. I'm entitled to my opinion, and entitled to present facts to argue or make a point.

Don't start off with "OK with all due respect" when all you're going to do is slag me off. I didn't insult you personally so I don't expect to be insulted. I obviously struck a nerve.

Really? I think I struck a nerve too lol...Did you read my post here... Or are you just 'assuming' again ... At least I had the decency of writing "with all due respect" ..

So you think it is fine for you to slag other people of just as long as no one else catches you out? You didn't really insult me personally ? .. Are you that deluded ? Lol

It's not about MG cheating or seeded RNGs or other tinfoil hat theories or anything else....it is about human nature. You are looking for ways to explain your losses and convince yourself it is the software, when, in fact, it is YOU.....YOU gambled your money on a game with a big house edge, and, as expected, you had a few big wins but mostly losses.

A poor tradesman always blames his tools.

To me... It is personally insulting when you make up a fake scenario and act as if that is what I said, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

Funny thing is a forum holds all the posts from the past for people to go through to see what people are really all about :)
 
Really? I think I struck a nerve too lol...Did you read my post here... Or are you just 'assuming' again ... At least I had the decency of writing "with all due respect" ..

So you think it is fine for you to slag other people of just as long as no one else catches you out? You didn't really insult me personally ? .. Are you that deluded ? Lol



To me... It is personally insulting when you make up a fake scenario and act as if that is what I said, which couldn't be farther from the truth.

Funny thing is a forum holds all the posts from the past for people to go through to see what people are really all about :)

OK. I read that post and I had read it previously and I apologise that I didn't recall it when responding to you. I accept that you seem to have a more realistic view than I thought. I guess the part that threw me is that you were agreeing with a member here who pretty much IS blaming MG software I.e. he thinks its all rigged, when you stated you dont blame the software in your other post.

My frustration comes from players losing their shirt and throwing wild theories around and trying to convince others they are being "had".

I know realize you aren't doing that and I apologize unreservedly for getting the situation wrong.
 
I think, and this is just my opinion for what it's worth (which isn't really worth anything), as a gambler you need to know WHEN to walk away. There's a fine line of "should I keep going to chase down my losses or should I take this win and consider this a good day?"

Whatever software you choose to play, whether it be RTG, MG, playtech, NetEnt, etc., etc. you WILL experience dry spells. Each time you have a line win, you are in reality WINNING. It may not be 10X your orginal bet, it may be only 1X your bet, but it IS a win. It just doesn't seem like it after 100 spins and your money is gone, because in actuality you are playing your small wins right back chasing down the BIG win. (I got some sleep, and I'm not sure I'm even making sense to myself).

What it boils down to(IMO)... you need to know when to hit the cashout button, when to walk away and stop chasing losses, and/or when to say enough is enough and give it a rest for a bit or try a different software for a while. There is a reason it's called gambling...
 
...

When gambling is no longer enjoyable and/or entertaining, it is time to quit. When you chase losses on a regular basis, it is time to quit. If you don't believe that the games/software you are playing is fair, it is time to quit. And when you are spending more than you win, even after winning 10K plus, it is definitely time to quit. As Nifty mentioned, slots are a long term losing proposition, not a moneymaker. The ONLY way to come out ahead in the long run, is to take a big win and run for the hills.

Best of luck to you.



I have to say, you are wrong, we are close friends because we worked together, speak same language and once upon a time, we shared the same OZ lotto ticket number with a windfall...
But you also share the same birthdate. And you like the same bands as the "third" account. I've upgraded your account to "Quit Gambling" where you still have access to the forum, but only the non-gambling sections.

The problem here is that nobody, not even the casino promoters can guarantee anything about fairness while gambling online without regulation in place that's being enforced.

If you’re convinced that something is wrong go with your instincts. Going to any forum that promotes what you’re complaining about is ridicules. If you carry on about your believes at these promotional sites, you will eventually be abused and labeled.

People making a living off this stuff can’t help but be biased. Of course this logic doesn’t apply here at this site.

Don’t let anyone here that don’t know anymore then you about how anything actually works within online gaming convince you to keep losing more money if your uncomfortable with the results.

<sigh> Your passive aggressive troll statements have been dealt with ad nauseam. We've gone through this so many times before. I think it's time we move on. I'm closing your account permanently since this is something I think you actually want me to do. You've successfully martyred your account.
 
OK. I read that post and I had read it previously and I apologise that I didn't recall it when responding to you. I accept that you seem to have a more realistic view than I thought. I guess the part that threw me is that you were agreeing with a member here who pretty much IS blaming MG software I.e. he thinks its all rigged, when you stated you dont blame the software in your other post.

My frustration comes from players losing their shirt and throwing wild theories around and trying to convince others they are being "had".

I know realize you aren't doing that and I apologize unreservedly for getting the situation wrong.

Apology accepted and reciprocated. Let's put this behind us like 2 mature adults and back to rational debate :)

Cheers
 
MG SLOTS ARE ABSOLUTELY RANDOM...NOT!

Hey I have proof MG slots are not random,I know this debate has gone on and on but here's the proof!
I had the 20 spin feature on Immortal Romance and guess what?...about 2/3 into the feature by balance jumped by a few hundred dollars without me having a winning combination.
Well now comes the interesting part!...I then got a number of winning free spins (totally random right!) that ended up paying exactly the amount I had already displayed on my balance.
So what some have said before is true...free spin winnings are calculated before you actually have the spins therefore they are not random.
So my guess is if free spins are not random then how can ordinary spins be random,a spins a spin right?
Now I enjoy a good slot game but this makes me think big time,why am I sitting there with my hard earned free spins waiting for the big win when somewhere it's already been decided how much I will win...not good,not good at all!
I guess MG could refute what happened in my case but honestly I've played hundreds of games and hundreds of thousands of spins and I what I say is the truth...I welcome an alternative explanation from MG but I here they never reply to individuals.
And I guess someone (casino rep) is going to say the free spins are sent to my computer in a pack of 20 then shown to me in order...ok...if that's the case what's stopping the next 5000 spins on Immortal romance being sent out to players in a packet so the casino knows exactly how much it's paying out in advance...to be honest I think this is what happens.
My case is if they already know how much they are paying out on "random" free spins then they also know in advance how much they are paying in ordinary play.
So now I think if the packet of spins they generate to be sent out out a player or players contains a big win that doesn't agree with there percentage take on that game what's stopping them generating another random packet of spins that is better for them and sending that.
They would argue the spins are being generated randomly but if they only send out the ones that suit the casino or MG there really is a problem.
Makes you think!
 
Imo,
I don't think they are random at all. The only thing random about them is WHO the lucky OR unlucky person is at any given time they are programed to pay out or take... They are all humanly programed when put together. Someone decides on a pattern..
I don't know how people think they could possibly be random when it's a known fact they have to pay a certain %. This fact alone suggests they cannot be random. As I said in my opinion only.
 
And I guess someone (casino rep) is going to say the free spins are sent to my computer in a pack of 20 then shown to me in order...ok...if that's the case what's stopping the next 5000 spins on Immortal romance being sent out to players in a packet so the casino knows exactly how much it's paying out in advance...to be honest I think this is what happens
You are right, this has all been discussed before and that IS how most online slots work.
But just because they send a "packet" of results at a time that does not mean each individual spin within that packet was not 100% completely randomly generated.

So now I think if the packet of spins they generate to be sent out out a player or players contains a big win that doesn't agree with there percentage take on that game what's stopping them generating another random packet of spins that is better for them and sending that?
Nothing.
But why would they need to risk getting caught "rigging" their slots when the mathematics guarantees the house always wins in the long run anyway?

I can't prove that MG slots are NOT rigged any more than you can prove that they are - how could we ever be 100% sure either way?
So what each person has to do is make up their own mind. If they trust the software - they use it. If they don't trust the software - they should find another pastime.

KK
 
If they trust the software - they use it. If they don't trust the software - they should find another pastime.

You can choose to play even if you don´t think that every single spin is random. I think we had this discussion a couple of years ago (two years ago?) when the slot temp meters at MGS suddenly disappeared for a couple of days at exactly that time we discussed them and the randomness here at CM. When they returned, they didn´t update as often as they did before we started the discussion. Wonder why? :rolleyes:

To make the discussion easier, a well known fruitie emptier here on CM did probably NOT trust the software. He still played. ;)

EDIT: KK, I was wrong, it wasn´t in mentioned thread we discussed that you can play even if you don´t believe that every single spin is random.
 
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reply

Maybe taking a break would be better than quitting MG all together.

A fool and his money are soon parted. i'm not a sore loser but i'm not rich either. Dropped 400.00 and have nothing to show not 1 win.Completely my responsibility this I know which is why for me the gambling must go. Newbies beware have fun enjoy but keep yourself in check.Thanks.
 
A fool and his money are soon parted. i'm not a sore loser but i'm not rich either. Dropped 400.00 and have nothing to show not 1 win.Completely my responsibility this I know which is why for me the gambling must go. Newbies beware have fun enjoy but keep yourself in check.Thanks.

You really put £400 through without 1 win? Have you the play records to show that? If so speak to the casino about it.
 
A fool and his money are soon parted. i'm not a sore loser but i'm not rich either. Dropped 400.00 and have nothing to show not 1 win.Completely my responsibility this I know which is why for me the gambling must go. Newbies beware have fun enjoy but keep yourself in check.Thanks.

Not sure why you quoted me....
 
Why dont you try....

I play at spin palace casino, get some big wins there, last time 10K. This was followed by a small slump and then straight into another win of about 5K.....That was on the mobile casino as well, maybe give that a try?
 
Luck? What is luck? luck is being in the right place at the right time. Everyone's luck must dry out at some point, don't diss the game or the casino, the games won't pay everyone at the same time, someone has to lose. As for big wins then dry periods afterwards, what,
do some people think they are going to hit big right away again:rolleyes:

Lucky periods come in spells, example; I withdrew £350 one Thursday night back in September, the next night I went to land bingo and played slots, I took £400 out of 1 machine and moved on to another where I took £250 out of.

The moral of the story is..luck is a funny thing, some people may not believe in luck, but it's just a word meaning 'being in the right place at the right time'

Thanks,


Mary.
Ps, that is my thought of today:D
 
I have made my mind of quit playing Microgaming, closed all my MG accounts in 32red plc.
I have to say, 32red casinos are still the best in my mind, I just get disapointed by Microgaming software.
I have played at 32red on daily base, have good wins, bad run all the time.
I have noticed a certain disturbing fact. Every time I have a good win put me ahead, the extreame bad run is immediately followed.
And it lasts long and hard based on how much you won.I have to say, this is a un-natural way correcting RTP IMO...

I, as a slots player, has already beared with 5% house edge, can not take much on this kind of RTP correction any longer.
Actually, I have experienced similar situations 3 times in the past 4 months without single exception.
When the extreme bad run kicks in, games are just unbearable.

I have tried various way to overcome this situation, however, all failed.
To a point, I have to admit, I can not fight against a determined software system.
No matter how much i have put in and no matter how dedicated i played.

Played Microgaming many long years, I think this is a sufficient reason to convince myself to quit all together.

Cheers

Plasticnote

I know a lot of people will disagree with me (normally quite fanatically) but I think you are right. Why I say so?.... I lost in 10s of Thousands after I had the 2 big hits 10k + 57K in Jackpotcity in December. After taking the break for a few weeks I came back a week or so back and have spent another 10K in 5 MG casinos betting exactly the same way I normally do .... but the returns are not just shyte... I go through 500$ in 15 min or less because I am not even getting returns for click after click to even recycle the credits. Even the casino managers are surprised and are throwing credits at me because they are concerned about my returns and that I may leave for good. I have played about 5000$ on Isis and havent recieved a single Mega Moolah feature for the last 7 days betting 5$ a click. It is just unheard of. I have recieved free spin after free spin on BDBA betting 9$ and getting $5 back. I have done an audit of my account and can see th clear drop in the returns... not just on free spins/ big hits, there's a clear drop on my actual per spin return.... how could this be??...

I am writing this NOT because I hate MG, but because I LOVE it and dont want to have to leave it for good and feel sorry for the good casinos that are really trying hard to keep me.

I know there are people here who havent experienced the same things and dont have the budget to try it out the way I have and will just fanatically say it's my fault or its random and shit... but seriously I dont care... I know what I am seeing with my own eyes.
 
I think this thread does raise some good issues, and imho when you get the RNG Gods shining on you it has nothing to do with playing the right slot at the right time, as we have all had those awesome sessions where you can do nothing wrong, be-it sticking to one slot and getting nigh on consecutive big hits or getting a decent hit on one slot and going from one game to another accumulating a huge balance as you go, there is a recent thread here where someone got a balance of over 15k from a 50 deposit, playing several games, is this down to an odds defying run of playing the correct game at the exact time or the software deciding that today was the day it was going to pay someone a massive x300+ deposit return?.


A few points I think most of us would all agree on.....

1). Upon release both Thunderstruck II and Immortal Romance were far loser than they are now, TSII by means of way better scatter generated bonus rounds, and IR curtsy of Wild Desire returns.

2). Why is it that the above two slots are so goddam hard to hit high end achievements on, both the actual returns for x5 scatters and x5 wilds (without the additional wins) are pitiful compared to other slot returns, these returns are ofc worked out and reflected by the return on just how hard they are to hit, imho these are nothing more than bait to keep you playing these slots until you have acquired the rather pointless all achievements unlocked status.

3). If, as we are led to believe that slots spins are purely the result of a completely random system then why are x5 scatters/wilds the last two achievements always needed?, if this is the case then surely your achievements would run this course - x5 9`s/10`s/J`s/Q`s/K`s/A`s/Long Boats/Valhalla/Valkyrie/Loki/Odin/Thor/Wilds/Scatters, and as we all know only to well, the only part of that list that follows suit are x5 scatters/wilds.

4). I have hit x5 scatters on every single slot I regularly play on except TSII/IR, I have also hit monster bonus feature returns on some that I have had far fewer features overall on, including a just under £500 for a .30p stake and £800+ for a .60p stake on Rhyming Reels Hearts and Tarts, it is suffice to say that the slot I have lost most cash on and need the top two achievements at no less than 7 casinos TSII has yet to yield a return anywhere near these, even though theoretically one of these feature rounds can trigger a hard jackpot, in fact I have got nowhere hear the potential hits of any of it`s feature rounds bar Valkyrie`s x5 multiplier, yet i`ve hit these features way more than any other features from slots I play.

I`m not saying that MGS`s RNG system is weighted or rigged as such, but, in some cases it is being far from honest.
 
Plasticnote,
I sympathize with your feelings. Winning or losing often makes no sense. I experience mind boggling losing streaks which are seemingly not random at all and this is mostly in B&M casinos. I play a little of everything but mostly craps, video poker and slots ..in that order.
I've been playing most of my life in Connecticut, N.J. and some Vegas.
On some crap table bets the book states "the casino has only a 1.5% edge" yet I lose my entire stake in no time...and the thing is it happens a lot. It's painful as hell. How could that be? The odds say I have a good chance of winning. It's really about 'luck', whatever that is. :)

Even with slots and VP, last Summer I had large enough wins at B&M's to have 9 W-2G's (tax forms). It was a great year for me....then the gambling devil took over and has been crushing me....practically no good wins since. The stack of 100's I had from last year are all gone.

Sometimes it seems like the games are out to get you. Wish I had a better explanation.
 
I havent played in approx 3 weeks and it feels great. No more spending 10-12 hours pushing buttons to rarely get paid out. Hitting bonus features these days seem extremely difficult

However I have got back into poker and am having a blast with that.

From one addiction to another.

I wonder if I'll ever regret closing most of my casino accounts?
 
I havent played in approx 3 weeks and it feels great. No more spending 10-12 hours pushing buttons to rarely get paid out. Hitting bonus features these days seem extremely difficult

However I have got back into poker and am having a blast with that.

From one addiction to another.

I wonder if I'll ever regret closing most of my casino accounts?

When you are not enjoy playing, take a break or stop totally.
When you start believing all casinos are cheating, or you are not getting a fair game, take a break from playing for a while and do something else.


@Jennifer
I believe if you remember how you felt when you closed your accounts, then you will never regret doing it. Do and play whatever makes you feel good and keep enjoying it. That's life and how we should be living it.
 
Sorry for digging this thread back up, and everything has pretty much been said already, but I'll stick my oar in anyway :D

Even though I'm sure everyone here at CM understands the concepts of variance/volatility perfectly well, my personal feeling is that sometimes human emotions get in the way of rational thought, and we start to see things that don't exist, build conspiracy theories in our minds, decide to focus on events that reinforce those beliefs, and so on.

The thing to remember is that when it comes to variance and expected results, slots are completely off the scale compared to other casino games/gambles.

At one end of the scale we have the infamous English Harbour incident, where a sample of just a few hundred gambles was enough to prove that a double-up game wasn't, ahem, 'working properly' in VP.

Slots are at the other end of this scale. Even low variance slots tend to have a couple of big wins on the paytable that you may very rarely, if ever, get to see. (Case in point is Boogie Monsters, a game I've been playing on and off for over four years, and yet it was only a couple of weeks ago that I got five Boogie Monster symbols on the reels, and also five scatters - and these two events happened pretty closely together too.)

When it comes to medium-high variance slots, the paytable is made up of hundreds of thousands of possible outcomes (do we have any actual numbers? I suspect it may be even higher than that) - so you can literally play these games for weeks and months, and still be seeing significant dead patches, hot runs, and everything inbetween.

As such, slots can often 'feel' cheaty even when they're nothing of the sort. (And yes I've been there and I've had those thought processes same as most players I'm sure.)

As a low-roller who isn't adverse to taking up big bonuses with significant WRs (I'd say my deposits are split 50/50 between bonus play and non-bonus play), I generally try to meet WRs by playing tens of thousands of spins at low stakes. (I'm not a bonus hunter/abuser as I'm not looking to find a mathematical advantage against the casino, I expect to lose long-term, and the WRs don't really exist these days where you'd expect to do any better than get your deposit back on 'average luck' anyway, I just enjoy playing the games and extending my play sessions where I can.)

Anyway, the point is that I've seen higher variance slots easily chew through £300+ playing at 30p spin with nothing in the way of a decent win or bonus round - (so over 1000x stake, if you're playing at say, £5/$5 per spin, get ready to say goodbye to £5000/$5000) - before dropping a big hit, and as is the nature of random numbers, sometimes a big hit or two close together.

My feeling when it comes to MG slots, and this is based on over four years of play and god knows how many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of spins, is that they work correctly.

Of course they're horrible when they're dead, the medium to higher variance slots in particular can be brutal, but this is the nature of random numbers. I've had really good results - (two £500 hits on Hitman at 90p stake within a couple of hundred spins of each other, and a five scatters during free spins on Summertime (Thunderstruck clone) for over £1000 from a 90p stake over the same weekend) - and they didn't make me think 'This game is broken! It's paying out too much!'

I've had really bad results too - (I remember getting absolutely leathered by one of the 5 payline basic reel slots one evening, over £1000 lost during an extended session....., and a couple of £500 down sessions as well, even with stakes of £1 or less) - and the thing is that at those times emotion kicks in and heart rules the head, 'The game must be cheating! It's not done this before!'

And what I do after those sessions is take a little break, and think back rationally and realise I just got beat by randomness and the house edge, no need for conspiracies, no need for accusations of cheating - the house just took their 5% like they always do, and I had a run of bad luck on top of that.

Ultimately if I really thought the MG casinos were cheating, I simply wouldn't play there - end of story.

Now that is not to say that they couldn't do things better, I honestly cannot understand why MG (and other software providers) don't rate the variance of their own machines, a simple scale from 1-10 or even 1-5 would do - along with an explanation of variance built into the help files, or the FAQ on the casino websites. Make the information available to players, give them a chance to make an informed choice about what style of game they wish to play before they start.

(As an aside, I think a lack of understanding of variance, and of how a long-term theoretical RTP actually works, is one of the main reasons new players tend to bust out from small bankrolls and stakes that are too high for their bankrolls, whilst not even having any clue as to the variance of the machines they're playing - and these players will most likely never come back.)

Also, provide the long-term theoretical RTP for each and every game, and display it on the pay table. I can see no valid reason whatsoever for them not to do this.

TL:DR? Slots variance works both ways, it can be a blessing and it can be a curse. We don't call 'cheat' when it works in our favour, so we should think twice about calling 'cheat' when it goes the other way.
 
I feel for you Retlaw really do, ive had a few brutal weeks myself lol :(

Edit* Well another deposit gone with barely any play time. Thems the risks I know but jeeez. Havent seen 32Red be on the take like this and for so long in quite a whiles. Time to give them a break i think.
 
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I personally dont think that microgaming is the only one that does this but all of them. Have also noticed that with others too that once u hit you start to lose it all. There is the rarely occasional exception, but thats why when you win enough to get out, do it and only leave in your original deposit amount or enough to play off of.:thumbsup:
 

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