Penalised for taking too many breaks?!

[winner2021]

So last week I deposited a small amount onto a site (think it was £30) and got quite lucky-won a couple bingo games ended up with £100. Played slingo and got up to over £300, not bad. I withdrew a bit and used the account cool-off "take a break" feature for a couple days over the weekend and then was going to withdraw the rest. Went to log on after the break was over and they'd blocked my account to the point I can't even withdraw or do anything without ringing them with a message "we noticed your playing changed"-it didn't unless they mean I actually didn't play the money I won back this time...and they've put a net deposit limit until they can talk to me-I actually don't mind that I mean it's a bit annoying but if it means I don't have to talk to them I'm fine with it. Oh but no I can't get on my account until I speak to someone deposit limit a bit pointless in that case!

So I ring them and am told to get the block lifted I have to answer all sorts of affordability questions and about my outgoings etc. and they also want to know why I take so many breaks-how do you even answer that? I wanted to take a break! I said I thought you WANTED people to use the tools for responsible gambling?! Anyway I said I just don't understand why depositing £30 (and winning) and then taking a break has triggered all this...

I actually said look if you want to keep the deposit limit in place I don't mind that but I'm not answering intrusive questions about my income and outgoings, but no that won't do can't lift that without going through the questions. So I ended up getting them to send me the rest of the money (I'm still pissed off they block your account to the point you can't even withdraw yourself) and my account has remained blocked on ALL their sites until I get quizzed like I'm on trial. Not happening, no great loss but I'm still pissed at the absurdity of it.

They're basically saying "we've given you all these tools but we don't want you to use them TOO much because you might have a problem." Makes so much sense from a responsible gambling perspective NOT. Do the gambling commission support this nonsense? Sorry for the rant I just find it so ridiculous, they don't get in touch when I've genuinely lost quite a bit of money a while back (could afford it but wouldn't have blamed them) it's when I actually USE the tools and end up in profit and it was not a big deposit. if I'd played all those winnings back and not taken a break they wouldn't have blocked me-so in my eyes they're actively discouraging responsible gambling. Because now I feel like I can't use that feature.

 

[Glunn11]

This is so dumb lmao. It's shit like this that indicates that it is waaaay too easy to open an online casino: terrible decision-making for a business, for a customer, and totally asinine, yet presumably they're still turning a profit. If the tools are useful for you, that's a good thing and should be encouraged! And any outfit that wants to be seen as caring about their customers' wellbeing should take that attitude, not "ope they're using the cool down feature, they must be a hopeless degenerate, GOODBYE!"

At least it happened this way, not something shittier (e.g. them deciding to block you and steal a jackpot win in the process).

I'm guessing this isn't an accredited place. Play somewhere that won't treat you like this.

 

[winner2021]

@Glunn11 I know right! Not sure if it's accredited (they're more bingo than casino) but defo one of the well known bingo sites. I can't believe they blocked me on all of their sister sites too and yeah I was worried for a sec that I wouldn't get my withdrawal but thank god they said that was no problem.

Yeah taking a break has zero to do with affordability? I mostly did it out of habit, didn't realise it was such a red flag. I'm not answering dozens of intrusive questions for such a dumb reason. They've literally made me scared to do a time out/take a break on any site, so well done them I guess? The auto things that get flagged by their system are a lot of deposit limit changes (even if they're all small amounts) and multiple take a breaks-which are all their own tools they push for "safer gambling" then they turn around and block you! I love the tools I think they're such a good idea but this has just really put me off using them now.

 

[sufferinsilence]

When I want to take a break I change my deposit limits to a value that's too low to bother depositing.

I used to take these breaks too, like 7 days or a month. But after being questioned like I was a wanted criminal because I took a couple of these breaks in a 6 month period and that was apparently a "sign" for them that I had a problem I haven't used that option anymore. Solely the deposit limits at the minimum possible amount! No questions ever since.

Nobody ever asked me why I changed my deposit limits to more than usual. Quite strange

 

[Mr Wild]

This is all UKGC, during a recent interaction I had with them they said they are going to start to review how gambling companies handles players that change their limits more than average, they think it’s a indicator of a problem behavior

 

[goatwack]

Seems somewhat arbitrary and made up, based on each casino's nonsensical approach to problem gambling. If their criteria really is based on players' changing their limits 'more than average', they may as well use the tried and tested 'How long is a piece of string?' method, applicable to each player

I think we've long-debunked the notion of the UKGC's caring about player welfare, it's more likely that casinos interrogate players wishing to take a break on the sole principle of shaming them for doing so, so that they daren't do it again and repeat the whole process!

Good luck trying to leave any casino without being flung atop the 'Hoh Lord, I Think We Got Ourselves A Problem Gambler Here Guys!' - Pile, as they operate in binary terms.

The tools are there to be used as often and as little as the user chooses, and it's effectively none of their business whether a customer opts to take a break after each £20 withdrawal or not, when all is said and done. Yet another awkward gaffe to add to the current casino space, bravo!

 

[Mark_Lottomart]

Part of the LCCP requirements state that we must consider the use of tools as a potential marker of harm...

• Licensees must use a range of indicators relevant to their customer and the nature of the gambling facilities provided in order to identify harm or potential harm associated with gambling. These must include:
  
  • a. customer spend
  • b. patterns of spend
  • c. time spent gambling
  • d. gambling behaviour indicators
  • e. customer-led contact
  • f. use of gambling management tools
  • g. account indicators.

Different operators will be interpreting this differently but I would guess it's more likely the increase in your activity after the win that flagged the review. Did your average stake increase? Did your overall betting increase because of the win. It is likely a combination of them all.

 

[mack341]

So last week I deposited a small amount onto a site (think it was £30) and got quite lucky-won a couple bingo games ended up with £100. Played slingo and got up to over £300, not bad. I withdrew a bit and used the account cool-off "take a break" feature for a couple days over the weekend and then was going to withdraw the rest. Went to log on after the break was over and they'd blocked my account to the point I can't even withdraw or do anything without ringing them with a message "we noticed your playing changed"-it didn't unless they mean I actually didn't play the money I won back this time...and they've put a net deposit limit until they can talk to me-I actually don't mind that I mean it's a bit annoying but if it means I don't have to talk to them I'm fine with it. Oh but no I can't get on my account until I speak to someone deposit limit a bit pointless in that case!

So I ring them and am told to get the block lifted I have to answer all sorts of affordability questions and about my outgoings etc. and they also want to know why I take so many breaks-how do you even answer that? I wanted to take a break! I said I thought you WANTED people to use the tools for responsible gambling?! Anyway I said I just don't understand why depositing £30 (and winning) and then taking a break has triggered all this...

I actually said look if you want to keep the deposit limit in place I don't mind that but I'm not answering intrusive questions about my income and outgoings, but no that won't do can't lift that without going through the questions. So I ended up getting them to send me the rest of the money (I'm still pissed off they block your account to the point you can't even withdraw yourself) and my account has remained blocked on ALL their sites until I get quizzed like I'm on trial. Not happening, no great loss but I'm still pissed at the absurdity of it.

They're basically saying "we've given you all these tools but we don't want you to use them TOO much because you might have a problem." Makes so much sense from a responsible gambling perspective NOT. Do the gambling commission support this nonsense? Sorry for the rant I just find it so ridiculous, they don't get in touch when I've genuinely lost quite a bit of money a while back (could afford it but wouldn't have blamed them) it's when I actually USE the tools and end up in profit and it was not a big deposit. if I'd played all those winnings back and not taken a break they wouldn't have blocked me-so in my eyes they're actively discouraging responsible gambling. Because now I feel like I can't use that feature.

I had to have one of these conversations with a well known site and it took over an hour! Nice person asking the questions though and think she knew it was intrusive basically.

The system imo should aim at harm reduction rather than prevention, as that is just impossible while keeping this 'entertainment hobby' fun, and to that end of stopping all 'harm' they may as well just close the whole thing down.

Auto spins and bonus buys could have been kept available for low stakes, there is a big difference in the harm potential of a repeatable £200 bb or a £20 one restricted to 2 per day etc...

Lowering deposit stakes used to be a decent strategy to hold onto winnings, but if you want to increase them back up now I expect there'd be another financial inquisition required.

 

[Reelsoffun]

they think it’s a indicator of a problem behavior

I don’t agree with much the UKGC have done in the last few years, but I can see why they come to that conclusion, a totally in control gambler that wants to take a break will do just that, one that has to force it on themselves via tools is probably not.

@Glunn11 I know right! Not sure if it's accredited (they're more bingo than casino) but defo one of the well known bingo sites. I can't believe they blocked me on all of their sister sites too and yeah I was worried for a sec that I wouldn't get my withdrawal but thank god they said that was no problem.

Yeah taking a break has zero to do with affordability? I mostly did it out of habit, didn't realise it was such a red flag. I'm not answering dozens of intrusive questions for such a dumb reason. They've literally made me scared to do a time out/take a break on any site, so well done them I guess? The auto things that get flagged by their system are a lot of deposit limit changes (even if they're all small amounts) and multiple take a breaks-which are all their own tools they push for "safer gambling" then they turn around and block you! I love the tools I think they're such a good idea but this has just really put me off using them now.

TBH I can see it from both sides, but if you don’t have a problem and want to take a break then just do it, why do you need to enforce it on yourself by using the tools, that is by definition suggesting that you don’t trust yourself to take a break without setting a time out, and so maybe have some early signs of problem behaviour?

 

[winner2021]

Part of the LCCP requirements state that we must consider the use of tools as a potential marker of harm...


Different operators will be interpreting this differently but I would guess it's more likely the increase in your activity after the win that flagged the review. Did your average stake increase? Did your overall betting increase because of the win. It is likely a combination of them all.

Erm not really because I usually stake between £2-£5 on slingo. And the bingo game I was playing on before was also £2 which I got lucky on. Then I switched to the slingo. They never mentioned any of that on the phone though just kept asking about the breaks and then saying they'll need to go through affordability to lift the block. Unfortunately I can't even get on my account to check how long I was playing slingo for but I don't think it was that long. I just got really lucky-well so I thought at the time lol.

@Reelsoffun yeah I can see your point but I just assumed the tools were there to be used whenever and however many times I liked not rationed. I thought the sites wanted to see people using the tools. I understand them tracking deposit limit changes but what has taking a break got to do with affordability? I can't spend anything if I'm taking a break, I mean maybe if I'd lost £2k and THEN took a break it'd make more sense.

 

[Reelsoffun]

I think realistically the tools are there as a safety net for those that are not fully in control or at least that's the impression I have always had, and I'm ok with that.

Like I said, someone who is completely in control really has no need to use them, because clearly if they intend to take a break for whatever reason they will just do so.

For those that want to or need to take a break for whatever reason but feel they might not resist the temptation, they have the tools to be able to enforce that on themselves, but lets be honest that is kind of admitting you're not fully in control isn't it?

This is a very rare occasion that I have to agree with the UKGC in that their reasoning for anyone using the tools even just once could be an indication of potential for harm from gambling. Players using them frequently would suggest they are at potentially greater harm. So I can totally see why casinos would be cautious with accounts that meet that criteria.

Of course this is just my opinion.

 

[winner2021]

@Reelsoffun I'm just overly cautious I suppose, I actually thought it was being a responsible gambler but I see your point. I just find it hypocritical to push the tools and then block you if you use them too much. Seems almost like they're there in bad faith just to catch people out. I'm surprised the UKGC support this but then they've never made much sense have they.

Do you not see how this could promote irresponsible gambling in someone who does have issues though? Like they're giving out a clear message don't use the tools too much. So a compulsive gambler is going to leave a really high deposit limit in place for fear of changing it too much, and never take a break-to me that's just obviously a far worse harm. I mean ultimately I suppose they want compulsive gamblers off their site completely but a lot of damage could be done before that.

 

[Reelsoffun]

But if they leave limits high, they also have to prove they can sustain that level via SOW affordability etc so would be flagged that way to.

Unfortunately there isn’t really a one solution to fit all, so it’s more several tools. I just think it’s one way to flag potential harm, in the same way spending 10hrs in one session could be.

Let’s face it, a compulsive gambler could and would just as easily circumvent any tools they activate, if they wanted to eg timed out on one site, join a new one? With maybe the exception of GAMSTOP but even that can be circumvented many ways if they wanted to if the person is motivated / addicted enough.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Using the take a break option or lowering your deposit limits after losing several times in a row or when you had a big win shouldn't flag you as being a "problem" gambler... That's downright ridiculous.

Most of the time when I lower a deposit limit at 1 casino it's because of one of those reasons, and I'll go lose my money elsewhere

 

[Reelsoffun]

Using the take a break option or lowering your deposit limits after losing several times in a row or when you had a big win shouldn't flag you as being a "problem" gambler... That's downright ridiculous.

Most of the time when I lower a deposit limit at 1 casino it's because of one of those reasons, and I'll go lose my money elsewhere

No more ridiculous than lowering limits on one casino then playing at another lol

Which was the point I made.

My point is someone don’t need to set take a break to take a break, if they can’t take a break without setting take a break then they are in denial about having a problem, even if it’s just a mild one.

 

[winner2021]

But if they leave limits high, they also have to prove they can sustain that level via SOW affordability etc so would be flagged that way to.

Unfortunately there isn’t really a one solution to fit all, so it’s more several tools. I just think it’s one way to flag potential harm, in the same way spending 10hrs in one session could be.

Let’s face it, a compulsive gambler could and would just as easily circumvent any tools they activate, if they wanted to eg timed out on one site, join a new one? With maybe the exception of GAMSTOP but even that can be circumvented many ways if they wanted to if the person is motivated / addicted enough.

I just think the UKGC patting themselves on the back for all their safer gambling ads and campaigns is hypocritical to then tell sites to look out for people who actually use them. It's just so in bad faith. Like they only created the tools to make themselves look good, otherwise why have them?

I don't necessarily think they shouldn't keep an eye on players who take a lot of breaks but there has to be concerning behaviour after that. Depositing £30 and then winning and stopping is not an affordability issue. If they want to ask me questions/give me advice about gambling responsibly (which would probably involve them telling me all about their tools-ha!) I'm fine with that, I'm just not going through my income and all my outgoings because of a £30 deposit.

 

[sufferinsilence]

No more ridiculous than lowering limits on one casino then playing at another lol

Which was the point I made.

My point is someone don’t need to set take a break to take a break, if they can’t take a break without setting take a break then they are in denial about having a problem, even if it’s just a mild one.

For me it's more about superstition

I have a monthly budget, when I win I'll play more than usual and when I lose that's that. Do I sometimes get the urge to play more when I shouldn't? Sure. Has it happened I deposited knowing I actually shouldn't? Sure. Luckily most of that is in the past and I never got into financial trouble but I won't deny it does occasionally still happen.

 

[SlamRoyale]

For me it's more about superstition

I have a monthly budget, when I win I'll play more than usual and when I lose that's that. Do I sometimes get the urge to play more when I shouldn't? Sure. Has it happened I deposited knowing I actually shouldn't? Sure. Luckily most of that is in the past and I never got into financial trouble but I won't deny it does occasionally still happen.

Happens to me way more than I can admit, and it usually involves my favorite football team (Barcelona). Worse is when I have a live bet option while watching the game which, thankfully isn't a lot.

Would hate to be penalized for being disciplined. Gambler values huh!!