The Palace group Jackpotinaflash: resolved

[mikepipe]

Casinomeister, there is one fact that you ignore.

The fact the casino changed the terms after the player sent an email.

The player made a mistake by not checking the terms and condition before he opened his account.

If the player had known the terms he would not have opened it in GBP giving the casino a reason not to pay.

But then he found out,hmmm....., the casino also made a mistake...

They wrote only bonus will be forfeited.



One last time:

Please read the posts carefully, and you will find that the player knew that his opening an account in GBP was wrong (number 13 of T and Cs). He/she just tried to fly under the radar - and succeeded once.

 

[shawnh]

"Quote:
But, the $64 Million question here is: If the player would have lost his deposit, would he get it returned? Going by their T&C, all play would be void. "


Well I can answer that one - my Canadian friend who deposited in GBP, got the bonus in GBP and proceeded to lose all of it. He did NOT get back his deposit.

These sneaky terms are a Win-Win situation for this casino.

 

[kreome]

This is a mistake by the writer

The guy did not know. If he knew that then why to complain ?

The guy did not know but because he failed to complained right he made this mistake

Now we have to ask the player Did you know or did not you know that when you opened the account ?

If the answer is that he knew that and just wanted to treat it as a sticky bonus and maximum complain if they don't pay then my apology to Jackpotsinaflash and shame of the player.

I still doubt it, the player, did you know that or not ?

I feel this guy just went wrong writing the thread

 

[spearmaster]

"Quote:
But, the $64 Million question here is: If the player would have lost his deposit, would he get it returned? Going by their T&C, all play would be void. "


Well I can answer that one - my Canadian friend who deposited in GBP, got the bonus in GBP and proceeded to lose all of it. He did NOT get back his deposit.

These sneaky terms are a Win-Win situation for this casino.

He should have complained. The casino can NOT be allowed to have double standards.

In any case, the casino should in future endeavor to protect itself by at least locking the account at the point of registration if a player registers to play in a different currency.... and/or the registration scripts COULD probably be set up to force a particular currency.

 

[eranluv]

whether the player knew or not that GBP was not allowed might remain unknown forever.
we can not know that for sure but for that sake I do not think it makes such a big difference.
this is not about what he knew or what he was thinking or what his friends told him.
it's about T&C that specifically say that only bonuses can be withhold.
cut and clear.

btw, I saw this thread also on winneronline and I get the feeling most people are starting to realize the dirty game the casino is playing here.

I am also not surprised the casino did not return the deposit for players that used GBP and lost. it's so naive to think that they really care about the players.
they probably looked at the 5,600GBP and started to think "how can we screw the player". I really can't think of anything else.

 

[thesmacker]

Is this thread for real? A player deposits in GBP and in the terms it states at the time of deposit that doing this would void his BONUS, no mention at all of winnings, the player then wins a ton of money and has his bonus and winnings voided and all the casino "watchdogs" run to the defence of the casino. LMFAO

Whatever the players intentions are irrelevent, bonus hunting or not, the terms were written in black and white that doing what he did would result in voiding the bonus, NOTHING is stated of winnings. If terms and conditions aren't taken at face value and are subject to interpretation why have terms at all? Why not just have no terms and allow the casino to decide who they would like to pay and who they wouldn't. It would seem that is what they are doing now anyways and are getting the support of casinomeister and spearmaster.

Someone please show me where in the terms, at the time of the players deposit, does it say that any winnings would be void if the player deposits in the wrong currency with a bonus?

This is another black mark for online casinos, and once again with the sponsorship of this site.

What a Farce

Cheers

 

[spearmaster]

A player deposits in GBP and in the terms it states at the time of deposit that doing this would void his BONUS

That's a bit of a stretch. The T&C stated that opening an account in a different currency was not allowed.

Furthermore, it then states that your bonus will be void - ie. you are not entitled to claim the bonus.

It does NOT say that you can go ahead and play and if we catch you we will only remove the bonus.

Play is not allowed. Bonus will be removed. It is clearly obvious that any "not allowed" play will be void.

The bit about "bonus" will be removed is indicative that the account will not be entitled to a bonus - it does not say "We will remove the bonus and allow you to play" and it should NOT be assumed that any play has subsequently beeen allowed before or after the time that the bonus was "removed". You are not entitled to your winnings. You are not entitled to lose. You are also not entitled to a bonus.

Maybe I read that differently than you do - but it still comes out exactly the same for me every time I see it. Once it has been made clear to you that opening an account in a different currency is not allowed, that's it. If you take a chance and do it anyhow, tough shit. Any terms which govern play in the account do NOT apply to you.

 

[spearmaster]

NOW I'm confused.

The screenshot which Tepux posted (and I couldn't read at first because it was a bit small) says, if I am not mistaken, something to the effect of:

"In order to be eligible for a promotion or bonus, player must be playing in the currency of the country his registered address is located in".

It does NOT say that "players may NOT play in a currency other than... blah blah blah."

If this is the case, and in fact players MAY play in a currency other than that of the country where the registered address is located... we have a completely different issue.


IF the bonus money was not allowed, and IF at no time the player actually used an amount which would have exceeded his real account balance without said bonus being present, then the player MUST be entitled to his winnings.

Unless, of course, somewhere else in the terms and conditions PRECEDING... it states that players MAY NOT PLAY in alternative currencies.

If, at some point, the player DOES exceed what his real account balance would have been, all plays afterwards, inclusive of the play which caused the real account balance w/o bonus to be exceeded, should be void - and player entitled to whatever that prior amount was.

Think it's time I bought a magnifying glass... LOL...

 

[GOCC]

Ive looked at this and to me, yet again, we see multi ambiguous Terms and Conditions that are simply confusing.

Just look at Spear, fully respected indivdidual of the forum and been on many a time and even he was mistaken.

IT IS NOT ROCKET science to allow only certain currencies to deposit at certain locations. You could write a script that would allow anyone to use Dollars, you designate which countries use Euros and then only us Brits can use the powerful pound note. Dont say its hard coz thats ballies. Look at how complicated it must have been to set up the EZ bonus with different strengths awarded to different games.

It would be a simple piece of code that would take any half decent programmer 15-30 minutes to write.

The way I read the Terms and Conditions is, you cant have any bonus if not playing in the currency and if you do, they will withhold the Bonus. ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION WHATSOEVER that they will keep everything.

I notice spear said if he had dipped under his original depsosit then it would be void. I actually disagree as the T&Cs dont allow for this.


Why dont the casinos just sit down and completely clarify all their T&Cs rather than leaving themselfs open to mass misinterpretation on such a basic issue

 

[Macgyver]

This is another black mark for online casinos, and once again with the sponsorship of this site.

What a Farce

I got a question for some people out there ...

If you honestly doubt the integrity of the people who run this site (as I've seen a few state in the last few days) ...

Why the hell do you come here?

You question these people's integrity?

I question your intelligence, basing your statement on the assumption that no response from someone means that they're "on the take".

Better yet, just because they hold a different judgement than you doesn't mean that they're "on the take" either.

 

[spearmaster]

Just look at Spear, fully respected indivdidual of the forum and been on many a time and even he was mistaken.

Definitely not afraid to admit a mistake. The point is to be fair, not to be right. So it is definitely possible I misunderstood what was going on.

I notice spear said if he had dipped under his original depsosit then it would be void. I actually disagree as the T&Cs dont allow for this.

The T&Cs don't allow for the player to have the bonus in the first place - if so, then the player would not have been able to place that bet - it's not really an issue of the T&Cs any more.

It's either that or start all over again - given a choice as a player, I think I would prefer the former.

Why dont the casinos just sit down and completely clarify all their T&Cs rather than leaving themselfs open to mass misinterpretation on such a basic issue

I think it puts everyone between a rock and a hard place. If everything needed to be clarified in great detail, the T&Cs would be so long that players would fall asleep before "agreeing" to them. And of course the casinos cannot possibly cover every possible loophole - most of the time it takes situations like these to uncover these loopholes.

What would be more sensible is for some entity to draft up a standard set of rules and regulations - to which the casinos can then agree in full. And then for the casinos to just add the few things specific to their casino and operations in an addendum.

That would save most operators a ton of time and also ensure that players didn't have to re-read the T&Cs every time they played as they would be standardized. It would then be the responsibility of the third-party entity to notify players and operators when a term has been modified. Of course, the operators could modify their own terms and conditions but there would be so much LESS that everyone would have to worry about.

 

[The Dude]

Off topic rant

Is this thread for real? A player deposits in GBP and in the terms it states at the time of deposit that doing this would void his BONUS, no mention at all of winnings, the player then wins a ton of money and has his bonus and winnings voided and all the casino "watchdogs" run to the defence of the casino. LMFAO

Whatever the players intentions are irrelevent, bonus hunting or not, the terms were written in black and white that doing what he did would result in voiding the bonus, NOTHING is stated of winnings. If terms and conditions aren't taken at face value and are subject to interpretation why have terms at all? Why not just have no terms and allow the casino to decide who they would like to pay and who they wouldn't. It would seem that is what they are doing now anyways and are getting the support of casinomeister and spearmaster.

Someone please show me where in the terms, at the time of the players deposit, does it say that any winnings would be void if the player deposits in the wrong currency with a bonus?

This is another black mark for online casinos, and once again with the sponsorship of this site.

What a Farce

Cheers

Thesmacker AKA theguru at WOL.

Welcome back smacker.

You have some gall to come back here and start slinging a bunch of crap. Lest you forget the MiniVegas casinos were a sponsor of this site for nearly six years and they were rogued two weeks ago. So don't give me any grief about sponsorship.

By the way, you never answered my question here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/tons-is-confiscated-by-europa-casino-and-tropez.11004/

when you were accused of ripping off another webmaster's design.

And checking out your signature, you have the audacity to link to your thread at WOL for "casino bonuses"

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This thread is nothing more than a crapload of affiliate accounts. You're using WOL's forum to promote your aff links - what a guy.

I notice you're an affiliate of the following:

32Vegas & Joyland Casino
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

And from one of your last posts here:

I just wanted to bring to light that the majority of Playtech casino groups are rogue, and that an all out roguing is the only way to wake the minority "good" casinos into action.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...pa-casino-and-tropez.11004/?highlight=Smacker

You are a webmaster who states that most Playtechs are "rogue" but at the same time you promote the hell out of them.

And here you were accused of being a content thief:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/question-for-the-bellerock-gaming-rep.9894/

You more or less disappeared from the forum after this. Glad to see you back in all your hypocritical glory.

Talk about a farce.

 

[The Dude]

Another Off Topic rant

Ha ha ha!

Get a load of thesmacker having a conversation with himself here:
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

The poster "casinosncappers" is posting aff links for casinos that have the same aff links that "thesmacker" posted at WOL. And then "thesmacker" enters the thread asking for advice. What a laugh!

Oh and by the way, how did I find this thread? I Googled "thesmacker's" email address (that is registered in this forum) and the user name "silentbobz" popped up - and this is the third poster in this thread.

So it looks like a three-way conversation here.

How embarrassing for you.

So where's the farce, eh? It certainly isn't here.

 

[thesmacker]

Wow, you have too much time on your hands, maybe more focus on making rational decisions in regards to player issues instead of pandering to the will of casinos and you may actually have a positive influence on this industry.

Much of the same for you though, sling mud, derail a thread (2 violations of your own forum) and avoid the issue.

Great job your doing here!!

Keep sending people to online casinos to pump slots and lose their life savings and I'll keep showing them how to make 1-2k a month from them.

I guess this is why the US decided to ban online gaming transactions, because clearly there is no where for the player to turn if they get ripped off by a casino.

Have a nice life, maybe get some muscle relaxants to quell the swelling of your head

 

[mucullus]

Keep sending people to online casinos to pump slots and lose their life savings and I'll keep showing them how to make 1-2k a month from them.

Then i guess the only reason why you put up affiliate links is to keep track of the thousands of $$$ you helped making your players. It seems that pure altruism does exist.

btw, thesmacker is in good company with his soliloquies. Sony does it in the same manner:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[The Dude]

Wow, you have too much time on your hands, maybe more focus on making rational decisions in regards to player issues instead of pandering to the will of casinos and you may actually have a positive influence on this industry.

This is what I've been working on today. Complaints submitted from 13 December to 20 December were dealt with.
https://www.casinomeister.com/static/pitchabitch/december2006.php

That's 19 complaints processed.

And a few pending ones have been resolved. Mostly in the player's favor.

But it's funny, when I don't see things eye to eye with a player, people like you jump my shit.

Sure, I took a few minutes out to reveal what a hypocritical unscroupulous annoying webmaster you are. That's my prerogative. You rip off other people's content, you act a shill, you talk trash about a casino and promote it at the same time. You're a real work of art.

Have a nice life, maybe get some muscle relaxants to quell the swelling of your head

Yeah, go take a long walk on a short pier.

 

[chuchu59]

Bryan, You understimate us. Some of us may be at odds with you over the current issue but we can differentiate between people like caruso who has the interests of the at heart and the smacker who smacks(pardon the pun) of hypocrisy. Except for KK who has shown time and again his ability to profit slightly from play at the casinos, I simply cannot see how someone can share the secrets (if any) of making 1-2K a month from online casinos. Actually, you either get ripped off by the casinos or you get ripped off by the casinos through the affiliate.

 

[mikepipe]

@CM please dont ban smacker, his crappy posts are so funny - i like them- as a nonsenseshow of course, but anyway.

 

[spearmaster]

Bryan, You understimate us. Some of us may be at odds with you over the current issue but we can differentiate between people like caruso who has the interests of the at heart and the smacker who smacks(pardon the pun) of hypocrisy.

I must vehemently disagree about your opinion of Caruso. His interest is promoting his agenda and taking aim at anyone who does not agree.

I should point out that CM himself has the interests of the gambling public in general - by a significant factor over the people you choose to defend. I'm not going to make any similar claim about myself - my acts and my words are public and people can judge for themselves why I do what I do.

 

[Vesuvio]

I must vehemently disagree about your opinion of Caruso. His interest is promoting his agenda and taking aim at anyone who does not agree.

I should point out that CM himself has the interests of the gambling public in general - by a significant factor over the people you choose to defend. I'm not going to make any similar claim about myself - my acts and my words are public and people can judge for themselves why I do what I do.

Well, if the gloves are off - give me Caruso's "agenda" (sticking up for players and tending to favour the player if there's any doubt) and a website that tells players how to at least break even, to your equally belligerent approach, tendency to favour casinos, and a website in your signature trying to attract players to play progressive jackpots because, as you cynically boast to potential advertisers:

"Now you can directly reach the source of your most valuable traffic - progressive jackpot players. These are the people that visit online casinos to play progressive jackpots games for entertainment as well as the hope of hitting the big payout - a dream come true for the player, and for you, the online casino operator."

Sure, Caruso was "negative", but then this forum would be worthless if it was only made up of people who see the casino industry as all sweetness and light.

That said, I absolutely respect the job Bryan does in walking an almost impossible tightrope between player and casino interests.

 

[thesmacker]

Bryan, You understimate us. Some of us may be at odds with you over the current issue but we can differentiate between people like caruso who has the interests of the at heart and the smacker who smacks(pardon the pun) of hypocrisy. Except for KK who has shown time and again his ability to profit slightly from play at the casinos, I simply cannot see how someone can share the secrets (if any) of making 1-2K a month from online casinos. Actually, you either get ripped off by the casinos or you get ripped off by the casinos through the affiliate.

If you havent figured out how to make 1k a month from bonuses and you've been playing with online casinos for over a couple years then you have been missing the boat. Its so simple, all it takes is patience and a list of about 15 casinos with monthly bonuses and a basic understanding of math but apparently you gamble for fun, which in my eyes is a problem.

 

[shawnh]

hey hey boys, we're getting off track here. Spearmaster hit upon something a few posts ago and shortly after everything went to hell with the mudslinging...

SPEARMASTER SAID:

"NOW I'm confused.

The screenshot which Tepux posted (and I couldn't read at first because it was a bit small) says, if I am not mistaken, something to the effect of:

"In order to be eligible for a promotion or bonus, player must be playing in the currency of the country his registered address is located in".

It does NOT say that "players may NOT play in a currency other than... blah blah blah."

If this is the case, and in fact players MAY play in a currency other than that of the country where the registered address is located... we have a completely different issue.


IF the bonus money was not allowed, and IF at no time the player actually used an amount which would have exceeded his real account balance without said bonus being present, then the player MUST be entitled to his winnings.

Unless, of course, somewhere else in the terms and conditions PRECEDING... it states that players MAY NOT PLAY in alternative currencies.

If, at some point, the player DOES exceed what his real account balance would have been, all plays afterwards, inclusive of the play which caused the real account balance w/o bonus to be exceeded, should be void - and player entitled to whatever that prior amount was.

Think it's time I bought a magnifying glass... LOL..."



Tepux should get her winnings....the casino can keep their bonus.

 

[mikepipe]

we didnt get off the track.
you try to split hairs again.
its obviously a philosophical question.
If you read the whole threa, you will see that you added nothing new.

i have to go on in german, sorry- you can, may translate:
es ist ganz offenbar eine Frage von trei und Glauben, gegen die der Speiler hier verstossen hat. Es war natrlich ein Casinofehler, das Geld anzunehmen, aber das ist unwichtig, weil der spieler nach treue und glauben (und 13 der TC) wute, dass er unrecht tat.
Es gibt keine Gleichheit im Unrecht. Das ist eiegntlich der lteste Rechtsgrundatz der Welt- dennoch beruft sich der Spieler darauf- udn viele antworten dasrauf.
Verdammt schade!

 

[spearmaster]

Well, if the gloves are off - give me Caruso's "agenda" (sticking up for players and tending to favour the player if there's any doubt) and a website that tells players how to at least break even, to your equally belligerent approach, tendency to favour casinos, and a website in your signature trying to attract players to play progressive jackpots because, as you cynically boast to potential advertisers:

"Now you can directly reach the source of your most valuable traffic - progressive jackpot players. These are the people that visit online casinos to play progressive jackpots games for entertainment as well as the hope of hitting the big payout - a dream come true for the player, and for you, the online casino operator."

Sure, Caruso was "negative", but then this forum would be worthless if it was only made up of people who see the casino industry as all sweetness and light.

That said, I absolutely respect the job Bryan does in walking an almost impossible tightrope between player and casino interests.

First of all, you cannot exactly teach someone how to break even. You can teach someone how to potentially make a profit from bonuses (which I did in 2001), how to find the best advice and strategies (visit the Wiz), etc.

Belligerent? Sure I am. And that is not the objection I have with Caruso.

Tendency to favor casinos? If that is what you draw from the thousands of posts that I have made, well then that's how you see it. Everyone who knows me well and keeps an open mind knows that this is not the case. And I'm not about to start posting a list of accomplishments or posts defending players or stuff like that - if you want you can easily find them yourself because there are plenty of them.

I also deal directly with operators and work with them and players to resolve issues or address problems. If Caruso can say the same, I would be surprised.

The website in my signature, by the way, posts information. And the page you are referring to states a known truth, furthermore the site makes no attempt to convince people that playing progressive slots is profitable or anything of the sort. No false promises, no scummy activity, nothing of the sort. And furthermore I did not bring Caruso's own site into any discussion - it is amazing how one can promote casinos with one hand and punch with the other. Let me assure you that if he was the savior of the players, the mere fact that he has affiliate links shows otherwise.

I have never made any secret of the fact that my former site (and also the site you are referring to, which by the way is no longer under my management) makes money from referrals to casinos - or a percentage of losses. I can either wear my heart on my sleeve, or keep it locked up so that you have absolutely no idea what my intentions or motives are. Which would you prefer?

Your attempt to paint me, and/or Casinomeister, as "sweetness and light" is very disappointing. I can assure you that in my case this is about as far from the truth as possible, as many casinos themselves can attest to if they should so choose.

But I happen to be a convenient target for many, for whatever reasons, and I accept this as part and parcel of the job. I do draw the line, however, at insinuations that people like Caruso make which have absolutely no basis in fact, no proof whatsoever, and are clearly not representative of any efforts I make, whether on behalf of players, affiliates or casinos. And of course I object to the slinging about of my name in the derogatory manner in which Caruso chooses to do so.

 

[Stanford]

Back on track - you can't have reneges

But I happen to be a convenient target for many, for whatever reasons, and I accept this as part and parcel of the job. I do draw the line, however, at insinuations that people like Caruso make which have absolutely no basis in fact, no proof whatsoever, and are clearly not representative of any efforts I make, whether on behalf of players, affiliates or casinos. And of course I object to the slinging about of my name in the derogatory manner in which Caruso chooses to do so.

Ignore the nay Sayers. Your rep is good.

To the issue at hand, I agree with you that there is no reason to void the winnings based on the current readings of the Ts&Cs.

I think Vesuvio and Kreome has done a good job of analysis - hats off to you guys.

I will just emphasize that all the power is with the house. They don't have to accept the bet. If they do, they need something substantial to void play. They allowed bets in foreign currencies - just not bonuses. But even if they had prohibited a different currency in the Ts&Cs, they still accepted a bet. They can accept such bets but they have to pay them off if they lose.

It can't be any other way without allowing them to keep the losing bets and not pay winning ones. We just can't allow reneges.

I saw some B&M comparisons earlier. It isn't any different. If I play a $5 match on a $10 minimum crap table, it is against the rules. But they will pay me off if they take the bet. If I bet more than the table max, they can object but they have to do it before they deal the hand. Otherwise they pay the winner.

There is always the chance of player error. When it happens, it needs to be corrected prior to play. It can't be used as an excuse for a renege.

This group should pay the player his winnings. They would sure take his losses.

Stanford.

PS - I saw a mention that B&Ms always require real money with bonuses. That isn't really accurate. I often accept accommodations before I ever place a bet.