The Palace group Jackpotinaflash: resolved

[The Dude]

so, I tend to belive him he did not know that GBP was not allowed.
.

When did France suddenly become part of the UK?

one last thing about the casinomeister, I really appreciate your work but I think you are attacking tapux personally...

Calling someone a Time Vampire is not a personal attack. It's describing someone or something that is a total waste of time. How is this not a waste of time?

 

[eranluv]

When did France suddenly become part of the UK?

come on! players can use different currencies at many casinos. I played at several micro gaming with euro and GBP although I am from Asia.
some of them have no problem you are doing it (I wonder why should they)
some of them do not allow you to open the account or prevent you from getting bonuses which is also fine with me.
and some of them are waiting for your win and then comeout with this clause.

but even if the player did know that GBP was not allowed. under what right the casino is withholding the winnings? does every branch of the contract mean the player is doomed? what if even the casino itself said that only bonuses will be withholded and not winnings? even in that situation they confiscate all winnings?

Calling someone a Time Vampire is not a personal attack. It's describing someone or something that is a total waste of time. How is this not a waste of time?

maybe it's a waste of time but this is not the guy/lady intention. that's all I was saying.

 

[SKUNX]

I would like to apologize to all for double posting .. BUT if you would read my previous post in this thread you you will get the point.

Players think like the casino is the enemy and that all they want is to stiff them . Players break casino rules EVERY day and HUNDREDS of players DO NOT read the terms of conditions of the casino and promotions before depositng or using a promo GUYS.. an email to the CS people will only take 5 minutes of your time , so will reading the rules of the casino.

But God forbid a player EVER to be wrong , its called responsible gaming and you know what if you are old enough and what to risk your money then people should be more careful... It is getting old reading posts of players that feel " RIPPED OFF " just because they didnt take the time to reads the terms , this is not always the case since I do agree that there are alot of shady oprations right now, bit it wont hurt anybody to research a bit more before risking your money

 

[mikepipe]

everything is said, but not by anyone - so let me add this:
for me the decisive point is that the player knew that it was wrong to choose GBP - he or she admits that the casino could have rejected.
So he or she knew that accepting the currency was an error.
And this is not the base to risk money on.
In germany there is an idiom of "Treu und Glauben" translated mybe faith/trust and believe. And that is what the player violated by not only accepting the bonus, but claiming to be ripped.

 

[chuchu59]

The rules were there but the player missed them. IMO I think this is an honest mistake. The casino should not be using this clause to void his winnings. So, I would suggest that since the player should have been playing in Euros and getting his bonus in Euros as well, just give him his winnings in Euros instead of Pounds. Wouldnt that be a fairer solution?

 

[SKUNX]

Chuchu .. I honestly dont think the player missed them if you are going to deposit in foreign monies then you should always double check.

" Learn the hard way and you never forget "

 

[Vesuvio]

No one invited him to play in GBP - it explicitly states this was not allowed. That's totally different then some shady operation. A crap joint wouldn't have a rule; they would make one up after the fact.

I'd disagree, though. Crap joints usually do have rules, the more obscure and easily broken the better, and operate in about the same way as here.

The casino is negligent in not dealing with something they could easily handle automatically. How difficult can it be to check if the player is from the UK before allowing them to deposit or receive a bonus in GBP? The only explanation I can see for it is that the casino is happy to trap deposits and make more money out of losers.

I don't have any particular sympathy for this player as he does seem to have known what he might be getting himself into, but others no doubt do the same unwittingly (a gambler, just as much as a bonus hunter, can see that playing in GBP will give you more of a bonus - or what about countries whose currency isn't supported at on-line casinos?).

Yep, there are terms, but it's worth remembering that unreasonable terms are legally unenforceable - not that on-line casinos tend to bother with the law

 

[chuchu59]

Chuchu .. I honestly dont think the player missed them if you are going to deposit in foreign monies then you should always double check.

" Learn the hard way and you never forget "

Hi Skunx,

Even if the player had deposited in another currency deliberately, as long as the casino is only going to pay in euros, the disadvantage will be on the side of the player. He deposits in a higher-value currency but gets returns/winnings in the lower-value currency. Actually, I think casinos, except the shady ones who will practically do anything to screw players of a buck or two, should explicitly state that players who deposit in a currency other than their own stand to receive payouts in their own currency (1:1) where the depositing currency is greater in value than their own currency. For example, some players who should be depositing in US Dollars but actually deposit in British Pounds will risk approximately $2 to win $1 in an even-money game. This increases the house edge enormously (maybe grandmaster can calculate it) and new players will think twice before doing anything so stupid.

Right now, I still think the player should be paid his due in Euros as this would be exactly what he would have gotten if he had deposited in euros. If he had lost, it would be in pounds so the casino actually does stand to gain unless it thinks of itslef as a court and the player should be punished by having the winnings confiscated.

 

[SKUNX]

Hey Chuchu

I agree with you in more than one thing . But the whole point of the dispute is that the casino does state that in their terms and conditions . Its the players fault for not double checking specially when we now Casinos will find every clause possible to confiscate a win , this is when I just suggest that players should be more careful when they deposit under ANY circumstances .

Its only responsible gaming if you ask me .

It comes down to this..

If the player would have bothered and asked before depositing this post would not even be here .

Again this is just my opinion and to the player that ran into this problem I wish you luck and I would advice next to ask , I hope I wasnt rude at any point I was just expressing my point of view since I undergo similar circumstances when I play since I play from a Third World Country.

Thanks

 

[spearmaster]

The player did not follow posted terms and conditions - and thus he is not entitled to his winnings. It's plain and simple.

Just because he chose a different currency and was able to deposit means nothing. And it isn't so straightforward that the currency can be automated. For example, if I am an American living in the UK, or a Brit living in the US, which currency should I be forced to play in? Does it matter where my banks are?

When you're driving, and see a stop sign, do you ignore it and drive right through the intersection, or do you stop like you're told?

If you drive through the stop sign and get pulled over, don't expect to get away with some excuse about "But that stop sign doesn't apply to Ferraris, does it?" or "That sign is not in (insert language)".

 

[winbig]

The player did not follow posted terms and conditions - and thus he is not entitled to his winnings. It's plain and simple.

Just because he chose a different currency and was able to deposit means nothing. And it isn't so straightforward that the currency can be automated. For example, if I am an American living in the UK, or a Brit living in the US, which currency should I be forced to play in? Does it matter where my banks are?

When you're driving, and see a stop sign, do you ignore it and drive right through the intersection, or do you stop like you're told?

If you drive through the stop sign and get pulled over, don't expect to get away with some excuse about "But that stop sign doesn't apply to Ferraris, does it?" or "That sign is not in (insert language)".

But, the $64 Million question here is: If the player would have lost his deposit, would he get it returned? Going by their T&C, all play would be void.

 

[chuchu59]

What differntiates a good casino from a shady operation is that the former will not take advantage of the player through ill-thought out Terms and Conditions. This is similar to the King Neptune case and favours the casino just too much to be true. The Terms and Conditions are there to prevent casinos from player abuse not to screw them. May I ask where the casino has suffered a loss in this instance if they paid in euros instead of pounds. We are simply reverting to the situation where whatever currency the player deposited in, he could only win what he could have won in his own country's currency. The casino should state this in the Ts and Cs and if players are stupid enough to deposit in a higher currency they face a far higher risk than depositing in their own currency.

I think casinos should stop from using such poorly thought-out Ts and Cs to rob players of legitimate winnings. Simply stating that the player had agreed to them before making a deposit is simply not good enough.

 

[kreome]

Spearmaster and Casinomeister

You all keep saying that the terms were breached.

You forget one important thing that the player explicitly said

THE TERMS SAID THAT THE BONUS WILL BE REMOVED IF HE OPEN IN THE WRONG CURRENCY

Those were the terms, only the bonus and not the entire winnings.

Why to revoke his winnings , did he commit a fraud ? only when a player commit a fraud it is a reason to cancel winnings.

If the terms said can't get your bonus, then remove the bonus and pay or atleast pay in Euro.

I personally think the casino should pay at the supported currency.

This is also plain and simple.

 

[Palace Group]

Hi All,

Just to answer a few comments:

1) we are looking into a system that stops incorrect currency but as mentioned this is not an easy thing to do.

2) paying someone in a different currecy is not the way to resolve this issue. The terms and conditions are clear and the player broke the conditions. We refunded the initial deposit so have not done the player any injustice.

3) there has been a lot of talk about honest and dishonest casinos. I am sure you know that over the last few years our group has been above board with everything and always looked after our players.

4) the complete terms are listed below which do state bonuses and winnings will be withheld:
--The Player acknowledges that in order to be eligible for any promotion or bonus they must be playing with the primary currency used in the country where they have a registered address and are playing from. The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses and winnings resulting from deposits in any currency made in contradiction to this condition. An exception is made for USD and CAD to this clause

I hope this clarifies things!

Have a great festive season all.

Kind regards,

Darran
The Palace Group

 

[kreome]

The player mentioned different facts

The player, can u show any screenshot of the term that said only bonus was allowed.

You can add a screenshot to this forum, do you know that ?

 

[spearmaster]

THE TERMS SAID THAT THE BONUS WILL BE REMOVED IF HE OPEN IN THE WRONG CURRENCY

Play from the time the bonus was added until the bonus was removed for a breach would also be voided. It is simply not reasonable to allow winnings derived from use of a bonus in part or whole (under the assumption that money played is at the same ratio as bonus to deposit - ie if 200 bonus for 100 deposit, then 2/3 of every bet would be using bonus funds).

It is not possible for anyone to claim that they won money without using the bonus, even under the extreme circumstances as chuchu referred to (and in that case the casino was going out of their way to give the player the benefit of the doubt when it was absolutely unnecessary). You would have known the bonus was there - if you didn't want it you could have it removed.

As much as I think players should get treated fairly by casinos, and as much as Meister and I will stick up for players who get ripped off - I think it's high time that the players treat the casinos fairly as well.

But, the $64 Million question here is: If the player would have lost his deposit, would he get it returned? Going by their T&C, all play would be void.

By now it's probably a $32 million question... LOL...

Until such time as a player loses his deposit after depositing in the wrong currency, or otherwise abusing the terms and conditions, and makes it known to us here, I believe we simply can't answer that question.

 

[kreome]

Spearmaster, terms and condition are terms and condition

What you read is what you get , no thoughts, no I believe , no common sense and no it is not possible

When we come to judge we have to ask what did the term say ?

By the way if it was not possible as you say WHY DID THEY CHANGE THE TERMS RIGHT AFTER HE SENT HIS EMAIL, why did they correct it ?

They corrected it because of one reason: They wanted to confiscate ALL of his winnings and not only the bonus as the OLD TERMS SAID

I think you should admit that since the casino stated that only the bonus will be removed this is the max they can do and pay the winnings.

 

[chuchu59]

What I have trying to say all along is that if the player had deposited in euros he would still have gotten the bonus. The difference is the currency now. Now we have a case of extremities here. The bonus was given and the casino did not remove it in time and then it is argued that the winnings are derived from the bonus. How would anyone know? If we use the scenario in the King Neptune case, as long as the bets placed did not dip into the use of funds from the bonus then it can be argued that the winnings are derived from the deposit only. In the KN case, the player had at one stage lost his deposit balance and used the bonus funds and so he does not have a case to pursue but if the player here had never used the bonus funds why arent the winnings legitimate?

Actually, I fail to see how the casino was disadvantaged if they had deemed the player to have deposited in euros. He deposits in pounds and gets winnings in euros. Casinos should welcome these players with open arms because they would lose their deposits in pounds. Of course, it's even better now to confiscate all winnings. And come off it, I doubt whether it is possible that no player has lost his deposit under similar circumstances and even if so, its highly likely so why Jackpots in a Flash and for that matter, King Neptune answer this simple question or would they rather wait because they havent thought of this before. Just trying to take advantage of the situation IMO.

 

[tepux]

Hi All,

Just to answer a few comments:

1) we are looking into a system that stops incorrect currency but as mentioned this is not an easy thing to do.

2) paying someone in a different currecy is not the way to resolve this issue. The terms and conditions are clear and the player broke the conditions. We refunded the initial deposit so have not done the player any injustice.

3) there has been a lot of talk about honest and dishonest casinos. I am sure you know that over the last few years our group has been above board with everything and always looked after our players.

4) the complete terms are listed below which do state bonuses and winnings will be withheld:
--The Player acknowledges that in order to be eligible for any promotion or bonus they must be playing with the primary currency used in the country where they have a registered address and are playing from. The casino reserves the right to withhold bonuses and winnings resulting from deposits in any currency made in contradiction to this condition. An exception is made for USD and CAD to this clause

I hope this clarifies things!

Have a great festive season all.

Kind regards,

Darran
The Palace Group

I do not belive it. the casino representative is not saying the truth!!
The terms stated by the casino representative are not the one valid when I played.
My screen shot proves otherwise. it shows that only bonuses and not winnings can be withhold.

read it yourself !!

 

[spearmaster]

If we use the scenario in the King Neptune case, as long as the bets placed did not dip into the use of funds from the bonus then it can be argued that the winnings are derived from the deposit only.

As I said, KN went out of their way to show that even under the best possible scenario for the player, the player did not meet any conditions.

The issue here is whether or not you are using your deposit BEFORE your bonus - I believe that this whole concept is misunderstood by both players and casinos alike.

First of all, in a land-based casino, you will ALWAYS be using a bonus coupon at the same time as a real bet (for example, "This coupon entitles you to 2x payout on any single play). I have never ever seen a circumstance where any type of bonus can be played without real funds being present.

Let's take a land-based slot club scenario - you get cashback or bonus points on your card, and activate the card. You are asked whether you wish to play your bonus money or NOT. Some people actually prefer to accrue it until it reaches a certain level. Some people immediately play with the bonus money, which is then used BEFORE real money.

Nowhere have I seen a scenario where real money comes into play first before a bonus except in the sole case where you are talking about two different accounts/wallets/whatever. The slot club card is one wallet - you cannot put real funds on that card. Your wallet is one wallet - you cannot put bonus funds into that wallet unless it is able to be turned directly into real funds.

In an online scenario, the two account system has already proven unpopular. So throw out that idea, even if it DOES make sense.

The only reasonable way to consider these online situations is as if the bonus is being played at the same time as the real funds in the appropriate proportion as I have described above. You cannot be playing with real funds before bonus funds, it makes absolutely no sense, unless you REJECT the bonus funds.

Actually, I fail to see how the casino was disadvantaged if they had deemed the player to have deposited in euros. He deposits in pounds and gets winnings in euros. Casinos should welcome these players with open arms because they would lose their deposits in pounds.

Unfortunately, that's nonsensical. No one in their right mind deposits pounds with the INTENTION of winning Euros.

Just trying to take advantage of the situation IMO.

I will again vouch for KN in saying that they had absolutely no intention of taking advantage of the situation. I cannot speak for Palace Group because I do not know the circumstances as well - but I think that, except for the unclear wording which has since been modified, it's quite clear that the player attempted to take an unfair advantage by ignoring a term which was already present in the first place - that is to deposit in the currency of his residence.

 

[The Dude]

...My screen shot proves otherwise. it shows that only bonuses and not winnings can be withhold...

I think you may not understand is that the winnings that were derived from the bonus were voided (thus bonus and winnings are forfeited). I'm sure if you redeposit in Euros (like you should have done), they would give you your bonus based on the new deposit, and you can try it again. Reread what Spearmaster wrote. I think he explained it the best.

Again, you should have confirmed with support when you made that deposit in GBP that everything was cool. I still don't understand why this wasn't done. You read the T&Cs, but you chose not to follow them. Bummer for you.

Funny how whenever I say I'm not going to waste my time on something, I find myself returning to the problem.

 

[spearmaster]

I have never ever seen a circumstance where any type of bonus can be played without real funds being present.

Actually, I lie.

There *are* bonus coupons which entitle you to a free pull on "Easy Money" slot or whatever - you could win a million dollars... blah blah blah...

What they don't tell you is that you win a million or nothing - and that the odds of you winning the million are probably 100 million to one... LOL... and besides every visitor should already KNOW and EXPECT that this is nothing but a gimmick and that they shouldn't even waste their time... but practically every visitor, being an optimist (who walks in with a pessimistic attitude?) will still pull the handle...

But that's beside the point - you aren't given money coupons which can be used to gamble without the presence of real funds. Imagine the line of people waiting to get their free bonus money so they can take a shot at the casino... then they lose... then they get back in line...

The same goes with an online bonus - it has conditions attached (cannot be used at this game, that game, must be played through 8x, etc.) and you cannot really expect the casino to treat your real funds as being in play BEFORE the bonus money. But, being the optimist, you can always try...

 

[kreome]

Her are the facts, I don't understand why you need to be so complicated

1. the player opened his account in GBP

2. he won

3. the terms and conditioned said that if a player open his account in the wrong currency the casino reserve the right to remove the bonus from the account upon cashout

4. the casino refuses to pay the player any winnings

5. the player send an email "but your terms mentioned only removing of the bonus and not confiscating the whole winnings"

5. the casino figure out the mistake, chaneg the terms, and continue to refuse to pay.

6. the player is being accused for braching the terms

This is nonesense, the player should get paid

 

[The Dude]

Her are the facts, I don't understand why you need to be so complicated

1. the player opened his account in GBP

2. he won

3. the terms and conditioned said that if a player open his account in the wrong currency the casino reserve the right to remove the bonus from the account upon cashout

4. the casino refuses to pay the player any winnings

5. the player send an email "but your terms mentioned only removing of the bonus and not confiscating the whole winnings"

5. the casino figure out the mistake, chaneg the terms, and continue to refuse to pay.

6. the player is being accused for braching the terms

This is nonesense, the player should get paid

Okay, I think I know what you are trying to say. You are saying that this should be treated like a "sticky bonus". Correct?

But I believe the way this is structured, all bonus play is void - thus the winnings are forfeited.

 

[kreome]

Casinomeister, there is one fact that you ignore.

The fact the casino changed the terms after the player sent an email.

The player made a mistake by not checking the terms and condition before he opened his account.

If the player had known the terms he would not have opened it in GBP giving the casino a reason not to pay.

But then he found out,hmmm....., the casino also made a mistake...

They wrote only bonus will be forfeited.

Now, if the situation was that the player is a fraudster, someone that did not come to risk his funds and play. If the situation was just trying to take advantage of the casino I would say leave it, the casino made a honest mistake in the terms.


Here the situation is totally different. The casino put a problematic term at the first place and not only that they made a mistake and mentioned only bonus to be forfeited and not entire winnings, therefore the player should be paid.

Jackpot Factory group also added a rule that you can't open in GBP

I made a mistake and opened in GBP but before they put the bonus they closed the account and told me that I should open an account in USD

This is how it should be, not to put the bonus let him play win and then correct terms after he begs for his money.

this is not the way to treat a player.You approvsed this casino and u must see something is wrong with this casino , not talking about the other case with gamblingman.