Tons is confiscated by Europa casino and Tropez

[hithere7]

In the promotion terms they wrote Videopokser is not allowed to play to satisfy the wagerring.

They added a sentence in the long term of use which is not related to the promotions that they reserve the right not to pay if any Videopoker was played.

I played blackjack which was allowed and Videopoker, I wagered much more than required to cashout.

There is a promotion page and a promotion term and condition, why to mislead players and put such an important sentence at the terms of use ????


The balance is high, more than $12,00 that they confiscated.

3415 BP at Tropez and 3620 BP at Europa casino

I think it is not honest although it written in the term of use, when a player play a bonus he usually look at the promotion terms.

 

[paul02085]

Just another sneaky trick by PLAYTECH licensee's. I tell you most PLAYTECH licensees makes RTG look like a first class operation. They will pull every trick in the book to screw people out of money.

These clip joints should be avoided at all costs in my opinion. I do hope you get your money but I doubt it especially since they have it in their T&Cs, you know the ones they hide so they can use them in case someone wins.

 

[hithere7]

I believe the casinomeister can affect the industry and these playtech casino to stop with the games.

I think playtech is worried and the casinomeister too from what is going on and that is my hope

Here are the fact

1. The term that you can not play the videopoker was hid in the terms of use and not at the promotion terms which is applicable to the signup and monthly bonus I played

2. I played Videopoker and did not abused the bonus by playing non risk bets like red and black on the roulette

3. Actually because I played thousands of wagering in VP and also played the required amount to cashin in blackjack, I wagered triple the amount required thus risked and suppose to lose more using my money

4. From the amount I reached you can see I came to play and not to grind the bonuses, the deposit in both casino was only 100 or $200 in Tropez


I came to play, I looked at the terms, but alqways they can hide things in the long long term of use


I still believe I can get the money from them if the reputation of playtech is important

 

[caruso]

hithere7: the terms currently state:

Bets placed on any versions of Baccarat, Craps, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, Blackjack Switch and Blackjack Surrender will not be counted toward wagering requirements. We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered on the above mentioned games.

Did they not state this when you played? This looks very much like the Vegas Red complaint, where they stuck the exclusion clause in the right place after the player posted.

Either way, this is a standard Playtech trick, to hide this clause in a faraway place. Playtech are currently welching on a packet of cases in which the player is one hundred percent in the right. Your chances of getting them to reverse this one are very slim.

Europa is on my Nightmare List:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/playtech-the-nightmare-list.10836/

 

[hithere7]

It was absolutely not there

Thank you for letting know about this

If you can give me any email to send, I think I have a screenshot if the promotion terms at the time I played

I will try to find the screenshot and attach it to this message also

 

[hithere7]

Unfortunately I still do not find a screenshot of Tropez or Europa, BUT I did found one of Vegasred

They are all the same and in Vegas red you can see in my screenshot which is from Novemeber 2005 that in the general terms the sentence " we reserve the right is missing" and in the general terms from today you can see it is there


Please caruso give me your email and we will start with Vegasred, the historical one without the sentence and the new one with the sentence, as I mention the group terms are the same

I will try to find casinotropez one

 

[caruso]

Hithere7, the problem is that the term existed in some shape or form on the site. Even if you had a screenshot proving the exclusion clause was absent from the BONUS page when you played, they can still argue that it existed on the USER END agreement page. I can assure you I'm not condoning this shabby behaviour, no more than am condoning Vegas Red's identically shabby tactics in the other thread, but the point is that the casino has a get-out clause on this. A dirty, shabby, blatantly ripoff-orientated one, no question, but it still gets them off the hook. Really sorry about that.

However, if you CAN manage to find a screenshot for Europa, where you played, please hang onto it - it'd be worth having a go at least. I cannot see a successful conclusion, though.

 

[hithere7]

I found also the screenshot of Europa and Tropez

Caruso, if you can give me any email I can send all I have

They added everywhere now that in addition to the do not count sentence they pur the we reserve the right and in my screenshot you can see it is missing

 

[caruso]

OK, fair enough. Worth a shot.

Bear in mind still that that clause WAS listed elsewhere, albeit it deeply hidden, so I cannot be optimistic. Playtech players are being shafted on far more clear-cut issues than this.

Also bear in mind that in spite of seemingly picking up a useful contact at the ICE, I have not heard a dicky bird on the one issue I've so far emailed her about - so far from any guarantees on that score. It may turn out to have been no more than a PR job - in which case, I will have much to say at the next exhibition at which Playtech and I meet up.

 

[hithere7]

I sent them an email but they decided to ignore me

Bryam, you saw my story, do you think they should pay me ?

Right now I see they added the sentence in the terms of the promotion and I have a screenshot which show that when I played there it was not mention at the promotion terms.

 

[scrollock]

why the F*** isnt playtech rouged ?

chartwell got rogued and fair enough there was some shady operations using chartwell, but there is a hell of a lot them who pay up no questions asked (coral, eurobet, VC, all their poker rooms)

there lots more reputable chartwells than playtech reputables

and going back to so called reputable playtechs, yes caruso you are right that golden palace do pay out, but does taking 6 months to pay out a player, accusing them of being invloved with fraud and being given all kinds of bullshit by some arrogant guy in their security department redeem themselves from not being on your list ?

 

[caruso]

why the F*** isnt playtech rouged ?

chartwell got rogued and fair enough there was some shady operations using chartwell, but there is a hell of a lot them who pay up no questions asked (coral, eurobet, VC, all their poker rooms)

Friend of mine made just this point to me. Clearly, Chartwell are about twenty times more reputable than Playtech. Chartwell make an honest statement about their position, whereas Playtech post up a whitewash dispute service that has to date acieved a big fat zero. Are we upside down?

Chartwell made a statement, back when a player was out $600 and SOL, that they had no interest in mediating disputes. This was creditably honest of them, but it didn't much help that player, nor would it help subsequent players in the same position. Playtech have given an indication that they are prepared to step in. Have they? No. Will they? I doubt it. That said, it'd be counter-productive to close the door on them at this point, since the whitewash job they've so far demonstrated might just harden up in time. Emphasis on "might". While they're making the right noises, probably best to hang back. Not indefinitely, because that would give them just the excuse they need to go on making the right noises but doing absolutely nothing - as in fact they've been doing, to date. But for the time being, give it time. No sense in jumping the gun.

That's the "responsible" answer.

My REAL answer? Hell yes; Playtech should be labelled as a rogue provider by every responsible webmaster out there. There are at least fifteen licensees out there who think they can do absolutely anything with their customers' money, because the moment they get their hands on that money they consider it theirs by right - and the numbers involved are truly staggering. To hell with the handful of "honest" Playtechs. Playtech should be boycotted until such a time as they start to call their licensees to order - every single Playtech out there.

That's the "real" answer - sorry if it gives any offence to anyone; the "responsible" answer remains my official position.

and going back to so called reputable playtechs, yes caruso you are right that golden palace do pay out, but does taking 6 months to pay out a player, accusing them of being invloved with fraud and being given all kinds of bullshit by some arrogant guy in their security department redeem themselves from not being on your list ?

Still kinda. I'm not aware of this issue, but all these casinos I listed above are casinos that are...heck, what word can I use here? **doing something other than paying**. While Golden Palace are not currently **doing something other than paying** their customers' money, I'd keep them off the list. If this slow-pay becomes of Grand Banks proportions, and effectively no-pay, obviously they will belong up there too.

NONE of which should be considered ANY endorsement of Golden Palace or ANY endorsement of Playtech.

 

[Pinababy69]

why the F*** isnt playtech rouged ?

Not to detract from this thread at all...I totally agree with all the comments re: Playtech. But....it is rogued, not rouged. I'm sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine. Rouge is a colour which I associate with a top notch casino. It's not just you Scrollock, most people seem to type it incorrectly. Maybe it's just a typo. Carry on.

 

[scrollock]

caruso, about six months ago GP done a blanket not paying evryone, it took a load of layers some time to get their money, and as far as i know some still havnt got their money.

there was a load of threads on here, i mean one day half of the first page of the complaints section was filled up with people being refused payment by GP, all of them were accused of being in a "fraud ring", except the problem was they were all from different conutries, yet the guy in GP security department told them that they wernt being paid out due to "large amouts of account being opened in a specific geographical area", he neglected to mention the "area" he was referring to was the whole world!

 

[jetset]

"To hell with the handful of "honest" Playtechs. Playtech should be boycotted until such a time as they start to call their licensees to order - every single Playtech out there." - Caruso.

I do not agree. Deliberately seeking to damage generally good casinos in indiscriminate boycotting exercises, which this post seems intended to incite, is in my opinion unfair, wrong and.....yes, frankly irresponsible whether it is your *official position* or your *real position*.

By all means flag truly rogue casinos for the safety of the players, making it possible for gamblers to pass these dangerous venues by in the interests of self-protection. There's a difference.

 

[The Dude]

chartwell got rogued and fair enough there was some shady operations using chartwell, but there is a hell of a lot them who pay up no questions asked (coral, eurobet, VC, all their poker rooms)

They are not rogued. I'm sorry you have this impression. I merely cautioned players about their stance on mediation as a software provider. And as now, it looks as though they are turing around on their position.

To hell with the handful of "honest" Playtechs. Playtech should be boycotted until such a time as they start to call their licensees to order - every single Playtech out there.

Then I'll have to ask you to do this on your own website, and not mine. The Playtech casinos that are Casinomeister members (there are 9 of them from three different groups), are conducting themselves appropriately and have nothing to do with the casinos in question. To incite a boycott here is a bit out of line, please take it to your home turf.

 

[caruso]

Bryan, it's my "unofficial" position, to be read strictly in brackets , a bit of a vent, and borne of the utter frustration at the current situation. It's meltdown in Playtech land right now. Noone can deny this.

I still support giving Playtech a chance.

 

[caruso]

caruso, about six months ago GP done a blanket not paying evryone, it took a load of layers some time to get their money, and as far as i know some still havnt got their money.

I had no idea. Did that coincide with the various casino events in Vegas last September? I can't think of any reason why else I'd have missed it. Maybe you can post some thread links - preferably in the Golden Palace thread you posted, as they will devalue the Europa / Tropez issue here.

 

[Suited72]

Bryan there are 2 catagories though - software providers and casinos. Playtech IMO from what ive read on here and elsewhere are a software provider who have no grip over their licencees and allow them to do whatever they want - Therefore being a "rogue" software provider. The fact that 9 casinos choose to make a good job of it is excellent - but it still doesnt mean playtech would do anything if they weren't....

Iris (who has the worst job in the WORLD BTW) can't solve an issue where we all agree the player is 100% right - so that complaint division for playtech is there surely to just shhhh everybody while the player gets used to the fact hes lost his money and makes less of a big issue out of it (whilst the terms on the casino site are being altered accordingly lol)

Playtech could make things really easy and put on there complaint site what is and isn't acceptable and what they can do about it. As it stands at the moment people are emailing iris and being told sorry theres nothing we can do. Well, whats the point of their complaint section then?

I would love to see playtech rogued because where everyone agrees a majority of licensers do an excellent job with all the licencees, playtech simply dont do a good job, dont really care, and dont have a facility to resolve a legit complaint. I personally think if they get rogued and it becomes known throughout that they will start to do something about it and by doing so they will make it fair for the 9 casinos you want to protect. As it stands those 9 casinos could make more money by doing the same as the others (not paying out)

Lastly, if 9 decent licencees make a good software provider out of 60 (more may be decent I dont know) at what point do they become rogue?

 

[scrollock]

I had no idea. Did that coincide with the various casino events in Vegas last September? I can't think of any reason why else I'd have missed it. Maybe you can post some thread links - preferably in the Golden Palace thread you posted, as they will devalue the Europa / Tropez issue here.

will do.

 

[The Dude]

Why don't I just rogue the whole bunch and say the hell with it? For several reasons. One is the complexity of the different groups Playtech is dealing with. Some groups are worse than others, but by looking at the information that I have available to me, there seems to be only three or four casino groups that have some serious issues. I would rather focus on these casino groups and try to convince them on how players ought to be treated (indeed if they are being mistreated), instead of tossing the whole bunch into the rogue pit. This is a much more productive way to handle these issues. If the entire software provider is placed in the "evil" section - then many bridges will be burnt unnecessarily. Some of these bridges are needed to assist players that have problems.

As for boycotting? That is strictly an individual's choice, I won't have any part of it nor will I condone it. My job is to present information and to assist players in making their own choices. I can warn you when there are potential problems, and try to steer you - and casino operators - into the right direction. I know by experience that players will do whatever they want. Most are loyal to the bonus offerings, and that's about it. Talk of making some boycott is usually just that - talk. It's not a realistic option.

I would rather see that the good operators are given credit for doing a good job and not being penalized for the mismanagement of other casino properties that they have nothing to do with. This is how it should be done IMO and not so knee-jerkish and rash.

 

[spearmaster]

The only serious reason I can think of to rogue and/or boycott a software provider is because their software is not fair - or because all of their licensees treat players unfairly.

Does that mean I support Playtech? No. I think they should take some responsibility for keeping their licensees in line.

Chartwell has a completely hands-off attitude towards their licensees. I absolutely do not support this - while I wouldn't go so far as to rogue them, or even propose a boycott, I do know that I wouldn't promote them myself, nor handle any queries about them or their licensees.

Playtech has some good licensees that do not deserve to be tarred by a mass action - okay, maybe not that many, but they still exist.

Under the same scenario, do you think anyone could support a boycott of Microgaming, when two of their licensees are the best in the business and never cause problems for anyone? I don't think so.

If you want to boycott questionable operators, by all means do so. They deserve to pay for their own problems. But it is absolutely unfair to top-notch licensees like Kiwi and Acropolis, amongst others, that you should promote a boycott against them as well.

 

[jetset]

Good posts, with which I would like to associate myself.

 

[elscrabinda]

If as a result of a boycott the 'good' playtechs start putting pressure on Playtech to clean up their act then it does some good. Of course South African athletes during apartheid or Israeli orange farmers today don't personally deserve action taken against them but if it changes the bigger picture then it can be completely justified.

Obviously a boycott is only effective if you tell the people you are boycotting that you are doing so and explain your reasons. Playtech casinos getting bombarded with boycott emails? You bet they'll be on to playtech like a shot to get their act together

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Another possible scenario is everyone boycotts Playtech therefore the 'good' operators lose players and potential players due to this.

They find/figure out why this is and realise they need to move to a software provider who also provides a safety net for the player.