The Palace group Jackpotinaflash: resolved

[Vesuvio]

The website in my signature, by the way, posts information. And the page you are referring to states a known truth, furthermore the site makes no attempt to convince people that playing progressive slots is profitable or anything of the sort.

It's not so much the manner of the "known truth" (progressive jackpots make the casinos the most money), but the way it's phrased: "a dream come true for the player, and for you, the online casino operator". But ok, let's not argue stylistics!

And furthermore I did not bring Caruso's own site into any discussion - it is amazing how one can promote casinos with one hand and punch with the other. Let me assure you that if he was the savior of the players, the mere fact that he has affiliate links shows otherwise.

I understand you dislike Caruso, but to argue that any site with a few affiliate links (even if the links are to decent casinos and the website is explaining how not to lose to casinos - meaning the revenues aren't exactly likely to be high) is equivalent to any other is nonsense. I don't think Caruso's the "saviour", but on forums he's a useful voice keeping casinos in check and his website takes nothing away from that. Again, if you want to argue it compromises Caruso then that obviously goes for you a 1000-fold.

I have never made any secret of the fact that my former site (and also the site you are referring to, which by the way is no longer under my management)

How about removing it from your signature, then? I really think a Casinomeister moderator promoting a site encouraging the least profitable way to play casinos is inadvisable.

Your attempt to paint me, and/or Casinomeister, as "sweetness and light" is very disappointing.

Ok, I might have gone a bit far there!

But I happen to be a convenient target for many, for whatever reasons, and I accept this as part and parcel of the job. I do draw the line, however, at insinuations that people like Caruso make which have absolutely no basis in fact, no proof whatsoever, and are clearly not representative of any efforts I make, whether on behalf of players, affiliates or casinos. And of course I object to the slinging about of my name in the derogatory manner in which Caruso chooses to do so.

I haven't been reading any forums recently which might have such insinuations, but if there have been attacks then I can understand what looked like an unprovoked attack on someone who couldn't respond. In which case I might not have fired off a response

Anyway, I'll try not to derail this thread anymore. In short, Stanford's analysis above simply strikes me as correct.

 

[spearmaster]

Vesuvio... I haven't been a moderator since Nov 1

In any case, this is a jackpots information site. If I wanted to rip people off I would send them to scam sites or keno sites or crap like that.

Jackpots provide entertainment and if people want information on jackpots they can come visit. If, like you, they don't care, then don't visit. It's not like I'm pushing it in your face or something... please...

The difference between me doing it and Caruso doing it is that I don't pose as the player's white knight while pinching a percentage through affiliate links.

I am not a player advocate. I am not a casino advocate. I am an advocate of fair play, simple as that, and repeated many times over the years but people simply don't believe it - that's your choice.

Whether or not I dislike Caruso is also irrelevant - there are a lot of people I don't exactly get along with - that does not mean they deserve any less fairness than people I like.

Let's see just how "in check" Caruso can be - why doesn't he help instead of spew nonsense? Does he call operators and discuss issues with them? For that matter, does he meet players in person? Does he go to any OTHER conference but ICE which happens to be convenient for him?

The comparison is NOT valid in the slightest, Vesuvio - so please if you don't mind spare me the venom.

 

[Stanford]

Why is this marked resolved

There seems to be a lot of interest in the player's case, but the thread is marked resolved. Is it resolved?

Is anyone helping this player?

Stanford.

 

[eranluv]

I am affraid people here forgot about the player.

if you guys want to debate on other things - start a thread on your own.

from what I see on this thread and the winneronline thread it seems 90% of the people are in favor of the player.
only the casino meister and spearmaster (and the casino itself) are in favor of the casino.

what bothers me also is that the casino representative made a flase statement in this forum, stateing terms and conditions we know were not in place when the players signed in and played.

 

[spearmaster]

only the casino meister and spearmaster (and the casino itself) are in favor of the casino.

If you would have reread everything since your last post you would have noticed that my stance is now neutral based on a re-read of the terms and conditions and now depends on the actual play activity.

 

[leszeksch]

Palace Group

What about players who registered their accounts in GBP back in 2004,2005 years?I`m from Poland and during two years i played with GBP currency with bonuses and without bonuses.The Palace Group always pay my winnings.I have VIP accounts.Every month they are sending me bonus offers.

 

[eranluv]

The casinomeister Vs. The rest of the world.

my stance is now neutral based on a re-read of the terms and conditions and now depends on the actual play activity.

Thanks for drawing my attantion to that.
well, I do not know what was the actual play activity but I can assure you he/she played according to the T&C.
how do I know that? because the casino found nothing wrong in his game accept the currency issue. you can trust the casino they turned every rock upside down trying to find a reason to not to pay him so it must be the currency alone.

In that case would you support the player?
if yes, then we have here a situation of:

The casinomeister Vs. The rest of the world.

 

[chuchu59]

Thanks for drawing my attantion to that.
well, I do not know what was the actual play activity but I can assure you he/she played according to the T&C.
how do I know that? because the casino found nothing wrong in his game accept the currency issue. you can trust the casino they turned every rock upside down trying to find a reason to not to pay him so it must be the currency alone.

In that case would you support the player?
if yes, then we have here a situation of:

The casinomeister Vs. The rest of the world.

While I think Bryan has defended the casino a bit too much on this issue, it still boils down to which stance you take. He is a stauch supporter of both players and casinos adhering to the Terms and Conditions and basically there is nothing wrong with that. However, as issues become more complex, there needs to be more flexibility to handle these cases.

 

[dc9999]

Not to oversimplify matters but...

The REAL problem in this instance, and the reason we even need a Casinomeister, is because far too many of these operators (and I don't care if they're using Playtech, RTG, Microgaming, Boss Media, or any other software supplier) LOOK for reasons NOT TO PAY the player!

It's now reached the point of absurdity, but these T&C's are clearly designed to confuse,frustrate, and ultimately sabotage online casino patrons so that the CASINO always has a fallback position in the event they ELECT not to pay winnings - even after accepting deposits.

While the brick and mortar land based operations certainly have their share of issues to deal with, the online gambling world has further deteriorated into the level of pure farce.

For instance: why even offer such "lucrative" bonus offers that have so many inbred stipulations? Wouldn't it be easier (if you the online operators REALLY intended to PAY folks when they win...) to mirror the comp structure at Vegas and Atlantic City casinos? You know the drill.....a reasonable sign up bonus, and then straightforward bonus $$ based strictly on the level of play. But that would mean no tricky T&C's to fall back on - right?

And this whole BS about currency rules...C'mon...When I go to Canada to play (I am a US citizen..) I simply change my American dollars to Canadian. The online casinos could easily facilitate currency exchange parameters - if of course they REALLY wanted to. Again, this gives them another lame excuse in which to screw the player.

Finally, if I weren't impacted myself, their "customer service" chop shops are beyond laughable. I can only imagine having a problem or concern with the MGM or Bally's in Vegas and having one of their customer service reps belittle, insult, threaten, and then, ignore me after I raised an issue. BUT in the wonderful world of online gambling.... that is the NORM!!

And then when YOU THE PLAYER ARE SCREWED....you have to unfortunately rely on a third party (eCogra, Kahniwake, our very own Casinomeister) to "mediate" the dispute....a dispute which nine times out of ten (other than player cheating/fraud issues) was MANUFACTURED by the CASINO to make sure you don't get paid!

The vast majority of online sites aim to hook inveterate gamblers who need their "fix" - and are unwilling or unable to either stop, or seek alternative LEGITIMATE gambling outlets. They make millions of dollars by preying upon a relatively small percentage of online junkies (believe me, I too was one of them...)

During this Christmas season, tell these online scam artists to take a hike - permanently. Stop supporting an industry that even makes the era of Al Capone run speakeasy's look legitimate.

And for those of you still in the midst of trying to get your winnings and/or deposits back from these below board opportunists - keep up the fight!

I know that MANY more influential folks worldwide - like you and me - are sick and tired of all this subterfuge, and the operators hiding behind bogus dispute forums, slick legalese, and the inability to be tried in an international court system.

The vast majority of RTG , Playtech, and countless other "software providers" to this industry have grown obscenely wealthy by being able to rip us off - and hide in the shadows. I have a feeling 2007 will finally usher in some major changes.

 

[SKUNX]

Simple

I am not favoring with the casino here.. BUT

ONCE AGAIN the terms were on the site and she broke the terms , our mistake is always treat the casinos as enemies dont get me wrong there are ALOT of shady operations out there trying to steal from players .

But if the person DID NOT contact customer service and terms were on the site ITS THE PLAYERS MISTAKE.

Yes casinos often try to find a catch to confiscate winnings but that is why we most be responsible when playing and covering every move with an OK from the casino .

If you ask me , with all due respect to the other users that may think otherwise I agree with the casino.

This is just my humble opinion.

 

[pangloss]

Not to oversimplify matters but...

The REAL problem in this instance, and the reason we even need a Casinomeister, is because far too many of these operators (and I don't care if they're using Playtech, RTG, Microgaming, Boss Media, or any other software supplier) LOOK for reasons NOT TO PAY the player!

It's now reached the point of absurdity, but these T&C's are clearly designed to confuse,frustrate, and ultimately sabotage online casino patrons so that the CASINO always has a fallback position in the event they ELECT not to pay winnings - even after accepting deposits.

While the brick and mortar land based operations certainly have their share of issues to deal with, the online gambling world has further deteriorated into the level of pure farce.

For instance: why even offer such "lucrative" bonus offers that have so many inbred stipulations? Wouldn't it be easier (if you the online operators REALLY intended to PAY folks when they win...) to mirror the comp structure at Vegas and Atlantic City casinos? You know the drill.....a reasonable sign up bonus, and then straightforward bonus $$ based strictly on the level of play. But that would mean no tricky T&C's to fall back on - right?

And this whole BS about currency rules...C'mon...When I go to Canada to play (I am a US citizen..) I simply change my American dollars to Canadian. The online casinos could easily facilitate currency exchange parameters - if of course they REALLY wanted to. Again, this gives them another lame excuse in which to screw the player.

Finally, if I weren't impacted myself, their "customer service" chop shops are beyond laughable. I can only imagine having a problem or concern with the MGM or Bally's in Vegas and having one of their customer service reps belittle, insult, threaten, and then, ignore me after I raised an issue. BUT in the wonderful world of online gambling.... that is the NORM!!

And then when YOU THE PLAYER ARE SCREWED....you have to unfortunately rely on a third party (eCogra, Kahniwake, our very own Casinomeister) to "mediate" the dispute....a dispute which nine times out of ten (other than player cheating/fraud issues) was MANUFACTURED by the CASINO to make sure you don't get paid!

The vast majority of online sites aim to hook inveterate gamblers who need their "fix" - and are unwilling or unable to either stop, or seek alternative LEGITIMATE gambling outlets. They make millions of dollars by preying upon a relatively small percentage of online junkies (believe me, I too was one of them...)

During this Christmas season, tell these online scam artists to take a hike - permanently. Stop supporting an industry that even makes the era of Al Capone run speakeasy's look legitimate.

And for those of you still in the midst of trying to get your winnings and/or deposits back from these below board opportunists - keep up the fight!

I know that MANY more influential folks worldwide - like you and me - are sick and tired of all this subterfuge, and the operators hiding behind bogus dispute forums, slick legalese, and the inability to be tried in an international court system.

The vast majority of RTG , Playtech, and countless other "software providers" to this industry have grown obscenely wealthy by being able to rip us off - and hide in the shadows. I have a feeling 2007 will finally usher in some major changes.

Absolutely brilliant post.

I don't know what all these on-line casino industry junkies talk about at their periodic international jamborees but I would like to suggest a topic that they might put at the top of the agenda.


Pay the xucking players


...

 

[Stanford]

This one isn't that hard

While I think Bryan has defended the casino a bit too much on this issue, it still boils down to which stance you take. He is a stauch supporter of both players and casinos adhering to the Terms and Conditions and basically there is nothing wrong with that. However, as issues become more complex, there needs to be more flexibility to handle these cases.

This is a renege. It is no more complex than that unless Bryan knows something we do not. I am hoping he is still mulling this over. This sets a very bad precedent.

Stanford

 

[Stanford]

What terms were broken?

Simple

ONCE AGAIN the terms were on the site and she broke the terms , our mistake is always treat the casinos as enemies dont get me wrong there are ALOT of shady operations out there trying to steal from players .

But if the person DID NOT contact customer service and terms were on the site ITS THE PLAYERS MISTAKE.

Actually, no terms were broken. The casino awarded a bonus against there own terms, but there was no breaking of terms by playing in a foreign currency. Even if there were such terms, the casino is free to accept bets against their own terms. They just have to pay them off if they lose.

Stanford

 

[Vesuvio]

Yes casinos often try to find a catch to confiscate winnings but that is why we most be responsible when playing and covering every move with an OK from the casino.

Surely it should be up to the casino not to "try to find a catch to confiscate winnings", rather than for the player to get written permission and screenshots to cover every possible trick the casino might pull.

Thanks for the reality check, dc9999. Spending any time around on-line casinos tends to jade you to the sheer absurdity of the industry. The "terms and conditions" it's built on would be laughed out of court in any genuine jurisdiction or above-board industry.

 

[kakata]

Vesuvio.............sei napoletano Like me or did you just choose the name?

 

[Stanford]

Get you shot in Texas

Thanks for the reality check, dc9999. Spending any time around on-line casinos tends to jade you to the sheer absurdity of the industry. The "terms and conditions" it's built on would be laughed out of court in any genuine jurisdiction or above-board industry.

In Texas, those Ts and Cs would get you shot. Reneging on a wager is THE ultimate sin. Can you imagine sitting at a poker game in Texas than telling the player that you won't pay the pot because you didn't like how he purchased the chips - after you lose the hand.

This is very interesting. This industry ended 2006 by being rocked by an American law that may have no teeth. But then MicroGaming proves that Frist might indeed be right by endorsing a policy of reneging by its casinos.

This is not a good way to start off 2007. I will be curious as to how it ends. Players can help by keeping any casino renege front and center till the player gets paid.

imho,
Stanford.

 

[dc9999]

You're right on the mark with your sentiments Stanford.

It's absolutely mindboggling that the major online gambling powerhouses (Microgaming, RTG, and Playtech) have ELECTED to launch a campaign of indiscriminately withholding winnings from predominantely US based players in the past few months.

Equally disturbing, is the code of silence they all seem to have adopted. Not that the "dispute forums" (Montana, eCogra etc.) were ever that effective, but WOW......it's pretty much akin to raising the middle finger and telling us all to stick it don't you think?

The central problem, as has always been the case, is that there is no LEGITIMATE international licensing and/or consumer protection agency that the player can rely on.

How pitiful in fact, that we who are screwed royally by these charlatans, have to snivel and beg for responses from the casino reps who populate these forums!

I for one, am sick and tired of being admonished by posters for occasionally venting my frustrations (and yes, sometimes my choice of comments are somewhat "rough" or "nasty"...but hey, when someone STEALS $22K from you, I doubt if you would be nicey nice for 4+ months!) with these modern day hooligans.

So ultimately...what to do?

The only way to make these guys come out from under their shells, is to hit them where they live - in their pocketbooks.

That's a daunting task for sure - but in countries like the UK (where online gambling is embraced and soon to be even more regulated by the government), a well orchestrated press campaign can help.

There are some positive developments in the works, and there's a very good chance a major expose will be forthcoming.....

The old cliche.."there is strength in numbers" still holds true, so don't give up the fight, no matter how frustrating things appear to be.

More to come....

 

[Pinababy69]

I'd still like to know why players don't sign up in the the currency of the country in which they live. If you live in France, that's part of the European Union right? So.....play in Euros. If you live in the UK, play in British pounds. I live in Canada, all of my casino accts are in Canadian dollars, except for the few that don't offer that option, those are still in US dollars. It seems so simple and straightforward to me, really. The only reason to play in pounds would be to get a larger bonus, but you are also spending more money to get that bonus...with no guarantee you are going to win on it.

I just get so frustrated when things that should be so simple are made so difficult. If the OP had signed up in Euros, which would be the sensible thing to do...then this thread wouldn't be here, and they would have been paid. Obviously, I must just be a simple person.

 

[GrandMaster]

There are good reasons why you may want to play in a currency other than your own. For example, there may be poker room attached where you have play in USD, you may already have a Neteller account in another currency. What is the reason for requiring as some casinos do, everyone outside Euroland and the UK to play in USD? The USD is not the currency of the whole world, and there are more euros in circulation than dollars now.

The casinos should not care about what currency the player plays in if he does not take a bonus, and they should either not award bonuses on accounts in the "wrong" currency or have bonuses of roughly the same value in all currencies.

The technical solution would be not to allow players to choose currencies prohibited by the T&C, this should be easier than to release a dozen new slots every month.

 

[Rusty]

Personally I just do'nt get it.
Why should there be any restriction on the currency you choose to play in if that currency is an option with the Casino.
Whatever currency a player chooses to play in the bonus/deposit ratio is the same as is the WR and the risk of losing your money.
Why discriminate?

 

[shawnh]

Stanford said:

"In Texas, those Ts and Cs would get you shot. Reneging on a wager is THE ultimate sin. Can you imagine sitting at a poker game in Texas than telling the player that you won't pay the pot because you didn't like how he purchased the chips - after you lose the hand."


Right ON !