ssayyed92 VS Jackpot Capital

[Hydr0]

Some new thoughts and information....


JPC's mobile casino promo terms do NOT include terms 18 to 22 at the time of writing this post (see screenshot). One month today has passed since the casino's legal department amended its promo terms on their download casino, but the mobile promo terms have yet to be updated.

What if a player was solely a member of JPC's mobile casino and had never played at their download casino, should they still be penalised via the max bet rule breach just because it's listed in the download casino promo T&C's? Many Players dont even own a PC and only have the option of playing on their smart phones. Hence when terms aren't updated across the board, mobile casino members without PC's are at a disadvantage. Even experienced players could quite easily get caught out here.

Alternatively, if a player was gaming on the download casino and decided to confirm the promo rules on their mobile phone before playing the bonus (not an unusual practise, I've done it many times myself), do they still deserve to be penalised via the max bet rule breach when the new terms don't exist there?

Term 21, under JPC's promotional terms and conditions states that the Max bet rule for all bonuses = $10.00. Any winnings plus bonus amounts derived from such bets will be voided. There's an apparent flaw in this term that hasn't been previously pointed out. It states that wins derived from such bets are voided. Presumably such bets = bets>$10, but its worded poorly.

The term does NOT state that all winnings from all bets will be voided if the max bet rule is breached. It's a technical point, but one worth exploring.

Based on the manner in which the term has been written, I think it's fair game for the OP to argue that they're entitled to at least claim any winnings resulting from bets placed at $10 or less. JMV

I maintain that the OP should submit a PAB.

 

[ssayyed92]

The reason I don't pitch a bitch is because I read the pitch bitch information and I can see there is no way the moderator can help without public pressure on the casino.

The casino is going to reply they changed the terms and it is the player responsibility , what casinomeister can do with this information is he going to fight for me on that ? I dont see him responding him and he is not.

The only the way they pay is the support of people here.

The fact they didn't give a reasonable time to read the new terms, I am not a new player I lost there over 2500 USD and deposited there on a regular basis.

I never used a no dpeosit bonus there, I came to play but they decide to act with disrespect.

I believe only public pressure can solve this issue

 

[suzecat]

Some new thoughts and information....


JPC's mobile casino promo terms do NOT include terms 18 to 22 at the time of writing this post (see screenshot). One month today has passed since the casino's legal department amended its promo terms on their download casino, but the mobile promo terms have yet to be updated.

What if a player was solely a member of JPC's mobile casino and had never played at their download casino, should they still be penalised via the max bet rule breach just because it's listed in the download casino promo T&C's? Many Players dont even own a PC and only have the option of playing on their smart phones. Hence when terms aren't updated across the board, mobile casino members without PC's are at a disadvantage. Even experienced players could quite easily get caught out here.

Alternatively, if a player was gaming on the download casino and decided to confirm the promo rules on their mobile phone before playing the bonus (not an unusual practise, I've done it many times myself), do they still deserve to be penalised via the max bet rule breach when the new terms don't exist there?

Term 21, under JPC's promotional terms and conditions states that the Max bet rule for all bonuses = $10.00. Any winnings plus bonus amounts derived from such bets will be voided. There's an apparent flaw in this term that hasn't been previously pointed out. It states that wins derived from such bets are voided. Presumably such bets = bets>$10, but its worded poorly.

The term does NOT state that all winnings from all bets will be voided if the max bet rule is breached. It's a technical point, but one worth exploring.

Based on the manner in which the term has been written, I think it's fair game for the OP to argue that they're entitled to at least claim any winnings resulting from bets placed at $10 or less. JMV

I maintain that the OP should submit a PAB.

Thanks for bringing light to this Hydr0. Wish I was never the player who lost a wd because of the 'must always read the TC ' rule ....... which btw seems like a very harsh FU clause. So it happens and you post about it on CM and everyone reads your post and you are the 'sacrificial lamb' but hey you have performed a great service to fellow players. Oh joy

 

[BMWSTACK]

The reason I don't pitch a bitch is because I read the pitch bitch information and I can see there is no way the moderator can help without public pressure on the casino.

The casino is going to reply they changed the terms and it is the player responsibility , what casinomeister can do with this information is he going to fight for me on that ? I dont see him responding him and he is not.

The only the way they pay is the support of people here.

The fact they didn't give a reasonable time to read the new terms, I am not a new player I lost there over 2500 USD and deposited there on a regular basis.

I never used a no dpeosit bonus there, I came to play but they decide to act with disrespect.

I believe only public pressure can solve this issue

Well first off I think you should file a PAB. I think there is a lot of people in your corner including myself on this issue. Now if you are going to file a PAB then you need to not be saying anything in here. You can come say filing a PAB etc, but you cant be saying anything negative while the PAB is going on .

Quite honestly I dont know how they actually handle this. I do understand that CM will act as a 3rd party in trying to resolve the situation. I am not whether an accredited casino has more pull than others. I am not sure if it is an open and shut case because of the terms. Obviously the situation is the terms basically changed overnight, and IMO you need to look at the fairness of how terms are implemented.

Seeing they are accredited I would like to think that they would be held to standards in terms of initiating and making players aware of a MAJOR change such as this. As I mentioned before, they certainly do know how to run contests and spam us every other day of the week, there is no excuse why they could have not done a public announcement on this policy change, rather than keeping them in fine print. Maybe CM is interested in how these changes are made and will fight agressively for your situation.

Iam not sure if you were referring to CM responding here, but it is best if he stays neutral when a PAB is incoming.

FILE THE PAB you have nothing to lose and $13,000 to gain.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The reason I don't pitch a bitch is because I read the pitch bitch information and I can see there is no way the moderator can help without public pressure on the casino.

The casino is going to reply they changed the terms and it is the player responsibility , what casinomeister can do with this information is he going to fight for me on that ? I dont see him responding him and he is not.

The only the way they pay is the support of people here.

The fact they didn't give a reasonable time to read the new terms, I am not a new player I lost there over 2500 USD and deposited there on a regular basis.

I never used a no dpeosit bonus there, I came to play but they decide to act with disrespect.

I believe only public pressure can solve this issue

You may have read it, but you have not understood it. If anything, the opposite is true, it's easier to deal with a PAB when public pressure has NOT been exerted on the casino.

As this is an accredited casino, the standards for accreditation are terms and conditions that the casino is expected to abide by when dealing with players.

Operational Standards
•Must pay winnings in a timely manner.
•Must not disqualify any player from a payout if terms & conditions are met, except for situations of fraud (multiple-accounts, bogus ID documents, chargebacks, etc.,).
•Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C violations.
•Must not implement terms that can be construed as "unfair" towards the player.
•No player shall be involuntarily placed into a situation which breaches the terms and conditions during the course of play.
•Must pay out progressive jackpot wins in full or in reasonable chunks, regardless of any terms and conditions limiting payouts.*
•Must remove any bonus and associated playthrough requirements at the request of the player if play has not commenced.
•Will not entice players to reverse cash withdrawals with bonuses or other incentives.
•Will not use outsourced support. Player support must be in-house.

You could argue that the way this change has been handled constitutes a breach of the first bolded standard, and that this leads to the second bolded standard being breached.

The fact that the website has not had ALL occurrances of the terms and conditions updated to reflect this change even now also supports your case. Both the mobile site and the lobby display have yet to incorporate this important change in the information given to players.

When it comes to terms and conditions, it is the date of actual publication that matters, not the date when the internal decision was made to implement said change.

Whilst unusual in an RTG casino, such a max bet term is very common with Microgaming and multi provider platform casinos.

In my experience, RTG slots have a max bet of $100 to $125, so a $10 limit is quite harsh, and very easily breached by a regular player who has grown confident with the software and casino and increased their average bet.

 

[kavaman]

I also think the casino should have notified the players on this kind of a huge change. No other rtg has a maxbet rule. And reading the terms and conditions everytime a person deposits is not very practical. Think of vip players for example, they make several deposits a day every times a day. Who reads terms everytime before playing, i don't think that many. Sure , when you play at a new casino, it is a must to do. This does not just limit jackpotcapital, but every casino. When something major regarding terms and conditions is about to happen, report this to the players.

The max bet rule seems to become the new norm to screwing players out of their winnings. I mean about 30% out of the bonus issues here and on other mediation sites deal with max bet rule being the reason of unpaid winnings. The casinos who enforce this rule , should clearly let the players know this rule is there, and preferrably limit the softwares to not allow max bet:s larger then intended when using a bonus.

Anyway, voiding 13k based on a couple hour valid rule is worth a PAB.

 

[ssayyed92]

I am taking the advice here and pitching a bitch

 

[petro]

Hey ssayyed92,

Some years ago I won at a Jackpot Capital casino.
Had to launch a PAB to get my winnings back.
See here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...-winnings-removed-and-deposit-refunded.41361/

After this happened I wont play at any Jackpot Capital casino.

 

[bigjohn]

I am taking the advice here and pitching a bitch

Follow all the guidelines in the PAB FAQ here;https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/. Pay particular attention to the parts about what is expected from you including not posting anymore about your issue, at least until it is resolved.

 

[maxd]

PAB received and in progress.

 

[maxd]

PAB has concluded and the player has been informed of my decision.

 

[BMWSTACK]

PAB has concluded and the player has been informed of my decision.

I have never filed a PAB and don't really know the process, so I just reviewed the PAB FAQ. I do see that details may not be provided to the OP.

I know you said player was "informed of my decision." Does the casino make the decision on the case or do you?

 

[petro]

I'm very interested in the outcome of this particular PAB since I had an issue with a Jackpot Capital casino as well.

I'm hoping OP is willing to share with us.

 

[jshort]

I have never filed a PAB and don't really know the process, so I just reviewed the PAB FAQ. I do see that details may not be provided to the OP.

I know you said player was "informed of my decision." Does the casino make the decision on the case or do you?

The casino makes the decision on what to do with the player's money.

Their accreditation at Casinomeister is bound by them abiding by the rules, but their operation isn't.

My prediction (sorry love to speculate )

Because of the above and because it appears to be a near break even decision, I'm guessing the casino won but the player will receive his deposit back! Maxd might've politely asked the casino to send out emails to their players, notifying them of the changes to their terms.

 

[BMWSTACK]

I'm very interested in the outcome of this particular PAB since I had an issue with a Jackpot Capital casino as well.

I'm hoping OP is willing to share with us.

Well im sure if the outcome isn't in his favor he will share.

I also recently had an issue with Jackpot. It wasn't with a win or withdrawal issue, but with a deceiving phone call. I may just post another thread about that.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Hi there,

Please note that our rules were updated on midnight 30 June 2014, before the customer redeemed this bonus or started betting.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused, however, our decision is final.

Thanks,
Yasmeen

My prediction (sorry love to speculate )

My prediction is player not paid because of the quote above from Jackpot. That post made it sound like they were really taking a stand.

I really think it would have been a miracle for Max to get them to resolve the issue.

 

[maxd]

Does the casino make the decision on the case or do you?

Sorry to ask this but is that a serious question? I would think you have been around CM long enough to know how our process works, so your question seems very odd to me.

That said I've just looked at the FAQ and I see that we don't explicitly say how a PAB's conclusion is reached. Fair enough, here's the deal:

• The final recommendations in on a typical PAB are made by Bryan and I after we have reviewed the case details, discussed the issue with the casino and gathered whatever input is required from the complainant.
• The primary goal of the PAB process is to have the parties involved resolve the dispute between themselves if at all possible.
• If the parties involved can't or won't resolve the dispute between themselves then we recommend a course of action based on three things:
  • what the complainant has stated they wish to have done about their issue.
  • the understanding that the casino's Terms and Conditions are the rules by which the player has agreed to abide.
  • the guiding principle of "fair play" for all.

(I've updated the FAQ Introduction section accordingly: 1.5 Q: What happens at the end of a PAB? How is a PAB decision determined?)

In practice the above usually boils down to determining (a) if the player's case is legitimate, (b) whether the casino has enforced their T&Cs fairly, and (c) how the dispute might be fairly and resonably resolved.

• if we believe the complainant's case is not legitimate then we will make a final decision regarding the fate of the PAB and the complainant's continued access to the PAB process based on their conduct relevant to that case and whatever history they may have with us. PAB fraud is taken very seriously and fraudsters are summarily booted from the site.
• If the T&Cs are (in our opinion) ambiguous, too generic or simply unreasonable then we will decide what "fair play" would mean in the case in question and use that as the basis for our final recommendations. In such a case we would contact the casino regarding suggested changes to their T&Cs.
• if the parties involved cannot or will not cooperate in a fair and reasonable resolution then we take the appropriate actions given the options available to us (i.e. Accreditation standing, Casinomeister Warnings, "No Can Do" and/or Rogue PIt listings, etc).

So to answer the original question directly: we make the final call on PABs based on (relevant) input from the parties involved. I would take considerable exception to anyone other than Bryan telling me what the conclusion of a PAB is or should be.

As to the OP's case I feel it's not unreasonable for me to say that we ruled against him. I caution readers to keep in mind that that decision was based on what came up during the PAB process which goes well beyond what has appeared here in this thread.

Some have suggested that the OP's deposits might be returned. In normal circumstances I might have agreed but not here. As I've said, there's more at issue than has been revealed in the course of this thread.

Anyone with Jackpot Capital issues should, of course, bring those forward. Each case has it's own details and what has happened here with this case should not be assumed to be applicable to other JC cases.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Sorry to ask this but is that a serious question? I would think you have been around CM long enough to know how our process works, so your question seems very odd to me.

That said I've just looked at the FAQ and I see that we don't explicitly say how a PAB's conclusion is reached. Fair enough, here's the deal:

.

I think your second sentence answers your own question to me. As I said I have never filed a PAB and read the FAQ and didn't see who makes decision.

The information you provided and added does clarify the process. Good information.

 

[chayton]

I caution readers to keep in mind that that decision was based on what came up during the PAB process which goes well beyond what has appeared here in this thread.

I always try to keep that in mind - a player will come and tell their side of the story and generate a lot of sympathy, but the rest of us never see the other side of the story, or even stuff that the player may have left out. Being a member here is like being in the jury at a trial and only hearing from one of the lawyers.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Come on OP come shed some light. If it went the way the OP detailed I would be very disappointed with Jackpot. What other issues happened OP?

 

[ssayyed92]

As I thought from the beginning it was a big waste of time to pitch a bitch. Max told me I had 7 hours to read the terms and that I was never a VIP player there and that I may gave false information
I thought I was VIP maybe of some coupon codes I claimed but this is not the point.
The Casinomeister followed the casino stand that the terms were updated 7 hours before I played - big deal
Anyway it is not a surprise , of course the casino is wrong and the whole decision is wrong since in the welcome bonus they do limit the software not to allow more than 5,10 a spin, why not to do it at this case ? why not to update by email, why not to update this important terms like rival casinos in the cashier when you redeem the coupon ? why to decide confiscation 7 hours after terms was written in site and not other solution like extra wagering like many do in case you over bet ?
Anyway - waste of my time Max time Casinomeister time and Casino time

goodbye

 

[petro]

Seems you just got real unlucky ssayyed92.

It was fate I guess.

 

[jshort]

ssayyed92.

It sounds like you might've blown your chance by not being quite 100% truthful. In anycase, rules are rules and even though their usually shitty rules, you broke them and so sucks to be you!

FYI: Always try to come at these things like a lawyer might and assume that anyone that matters believes your guilty until you can 100% prove otherwise (including your representative).

in the welcome bonus they do limit the software not to allow more than 5,10 a spin, why not to do it at this case ?
goodbye

If their software always restricted it, how would they be able to confiscate more withdrawals from guys like you? Maybe they just do it for the welcome bonus as too many players wouldn't continue to deposit at any casino if their first deposit there was confiscated.

I hope you've learned a valuabe lesson

 

[maxd]

Max told me I had 7 hours to read the terms and that I was never a VIP player there and that I may gave false information.

No, that's not what I "told" you. The investigation revealed that you logged on to the casino, deposited and played some 7 hours after the Terms had been updated.

In my discussions with you you first said you'd read the Terms "a couple hours" before you played, then later it was "maybe the day before", and finally it turned out you probably hadn't read them at all but had actually read the Terms at some other RTG casino and just assumed they'd apply equally to your play at JC.

At the beginning you claimed to have been a VIP at the casino. That also turned out to be untrue. As far as I'm concerned the case went downhill from there. Responding to my investigation questions with statements like "the points you mentioned are technical and not important" doesn't help your case much either.

The bottom line is that you screwed up but you want the casino to pay you anyway because it would be nice if they did. Yeah, sure, it would be lovely, no doubt. But back here on the planet Earth they have Terms, you broke them (almost certainly by your own fault) and you get bugger all instead of your hoped-for "they could do this, they should do that" payday.

If nothing else you might try being a little more forthright with your next PAB. Bullshit, hand-waving and bending the truth isn't going to get you very far in such matters.

I'll be updating the thread title to better reflect the issue at hand. Original title was "Jackpot Capital Refuses to pay $13,000 Ongoing bonus offer".

 

[Casinomeister]

...The Casinomeister followed the casino stand that the terms were updated 7 hours before I played - big deal
Anyway it is not a surprise , of course the casino is wrong and the whole decision is wrong since in the welcome bonus they do limit the software not to allow more than 5,10 a spin, why not to do it at this case ? ...

Anyway - waste of my time Max time Casinomeister time and Casino time

goodbye

Some gratitude to someone who spent hours reading up, investigating, and discussing your case with me and the casino reps.

Max was spot on when he mentioned this:

...The bottom line is that you screwed up but you want the casino to pay you anyway because it would be nice if they did. Yeah, sure, it would be lovely, no doubt. But back here on the planet Earth they have Terms, you broke them (almost certainly by your own fault) and you get bugger all instead of your hoped-for "they could do this, they should do that" payday...

Sure, it would have been nice if the casino had sent out an email announcing the change, but even though they didn't, the onus was on you - as always - to read the current terms and conditions.

The only person here who is wrong is you. Don't try to deflect the blame on others like myself, Max, or the casino peeps. You screwed up - nobody else but you.

Waste of time? Yep I agree, you wasted our time with this.