Your Input Please Source of Wealth poll

[Balthazar]

I think SOW if a fantastic way to make casinos more aware of frauds and gambling addicts.

How so? Gambling addicts can show a payslip, too.

 

[mariafbb]

How so? Gambling addicts can show a payslip, too.

in this case I give it to the casino to actually make good use of the SOW they are asking for, and pinpoint if the gambler is risking more than he/she is actually earning.
further more : so for example if a gambler is asked for SOW and the payslip says 3k/month , and the said gambler , is making deposits of 2-3k/month that should ring some red flags for the casino.
but the truth maybe is what they actually do with the SOW once they have it, depends in the casino itself probably

 

[b3b44]

Been through the SOW at casumo was approved but hardly play there anymore

Had the same thing at Neteller last year past that aswell but they want it again this year as i had played less then the year before seemed a bit strange .(no response when emailing them)

Imo nowadays i think there wont be many casino's left that do not require a SOW.

Cheers

 

[shadow123]

Ask and I am gone,my finances are my own affair and will remain so

 

[Sonict]

I am one of the few that who has not been asked for SOW and I live in Canada. The MGA however does have a similar thing to a SOW all set up so time will tell if people will be getting this sort of thing in the future. I could explain where I have a "Source of Funds" easy enough with my lucky wins this year, but if sites took a look at my SOW... I bet they would want my accounts closed! If it wasn't for an awesome streak of luck, I wouldn't be playing anywhere as often as I am right now!

 

[mack341]

You just know some of these casinos are going to want to make this an annual occurrence for all their customers.

I don't like the way things are heading, the casino staff are effectively becoming an extension of intrusive, faceless big brother style government, whereas if casino staff truly suspect a customer is money laundering they ought to be gathering the evidence and passing it to the police, requesting a SOW would just alert a real 'launderer' he's been found out and he'll vanish into the night, and probably reinvent himself at another casino later down the line, In my view it would be better for the police to surveil/apprehend him and uncover any criminal associates and network.

 

[Dinahnana]

in this case I give it to the casino to actually make good use of the SOW they are asking for, and pinpoint if the gambler is risking more than he/she is actually earning.
further more : so for example if a gambler is asked for SOW and the payslip says 3k/month , and the said gambler , is making deposits of 2-3k/month that should ring some red flags for the casino.
but the truth maybe is what they actually do with the SOW once they have it, depends in the casino itself probably

Big flaw in that scenerio if the player had a couple of big wins then they could be depositing more than usual. SOW to me are an intrusion. You should only have to show ID, proof of address and payment. All payment methods ought to be in your name only. I know the SOW idea came from the EU who are not our nannies or parents even tough they like to think they are and they certainly don't know what's best for us.

If you SE from a casino due to gambling addiction issues and that is in a database (like the UKCG one) and if the new casino does due diligence and blocking a new sign up then that is good and all that should be done.

I know Maria you have the best of intentions but a lot would disagree with you. I would like to know if an SOW is requested exactly where is it sent? Who has access to it? and how is it stored to prevent theft of said information. There have been so many breaches of private information leaked or stolen from large department stores, gaming companies recently I doubt a casino can keep your information safe. What happens to your private SOW information if the casino goes under?

And to give you another scenario what if the perpetually outraged activists were to get hold of that information and release it? It is not an impossibility. We live in perilous times when saying the wrong thing gets you fired and doxxed over stupid things.

If there has to be SOW then it should be done and held through the gambling commission in whatever country you live in. At least that way players have recourse to hold these officials accountable if information gets stolen. Personally I would rather not have the intrusion at all but as far as I can tell there is very little protection for the player. It was set up so casinos can cover their butts due to other casinos doing dodgy things (big bookmakers).

Wow didn't think I'd be so passionate about this stuff until this poll and I actually thought about it. Great poll @Casinomeister I never doubt your wisdom

 

[Guntis]

Betsafe asked me to send my source of income a couple of months ago.

I guess it was for the reason to make sure I'm in control of my gambling habit.

I had a very bad month of playing at that time...

 

[Balthazar]

I am one of the few that who has not been asked for SOW and I live in Canada.

Do they ask for SOW to Canadians as well? I was never asked.

 

[dionysus]

Do they ask for SOW to Canadians as well? I was never asked.

never once here

 

[ternur]

I know the SOW idea came from the EU who are not our nannies or parents even tough they like to think they are and they certainly don't know what's best for us.

I'm getting some déjà vu here. I'd like to reiterate (just like before), and again not picking on you @osulle, that the policies of the global AML system are pretty much set by inter-governmental organisations (mainly FATF). The EU and nation states follow these policies and recommendations pretty accurately. SOF/SOW requests are just tools used to implement these policies.

 

[Playford7]

I’ve only had a few, they have been at Maltese based casinos.
Brief survey done in seconds without issue.
I’d also have no issues should they require my payslips or bank statements, could provide those in minutes.
I do think it’s gone to far however, and see how many people are facing problems.
Can’t see it getting any better either.
I’m not upto date with ukgc, mga laws, but I’ve played at William hill, corals, ladbrokes and betway years.
I’ve deposoted thousands, had bets placed in four figure amounts hundreds of times, also withdraws the same.
Not once from any have I had a issue.

 

[Dinahnana]

I'm getting some déjà vu here. I'd like to reiterate (just like before), and again not picking on you @osulle, that the policies of the global AML system are pretty much set by inter-governmental organisations (mainly FATF). The EU and nation states follow these policies and recommendations pretty accurately. SOF/SOW requests are just tools used to implement these policies.

Doesn't matter what body as a Libertarian I object.

 

[ternur]

Doesn't matter what body as a Libertarian I object.

That's a totally different discussion then. I don't mind philosophical considerations. Quite the contrary

 

[Slottery]

As said earlier, this should be something to be done when you see that player is playing lot more than average should be ok, based a lot country, average wages, cost of living, age and even place you exactly live based on your address details can give some picture what could be your profile as a player and what is risk you to be problem gambler, what deposit methods you use (yes, buying pre-paid cards, Paysafe or others is one trigger for money laundering), how is your game play (black/red roulette, only wager deposit once and withdraw right away even little bit loosing like deposit £100, withdraw £87).

Unfortunately many casinos don't take these things on account when starting to ask these things but will go some lifetime threshold where you can't see any changes in deposit/game patterns and amounts are reasonable what you can expect player who is living in XXXX city can be spending for gambling. Analyzing these kind of data would really be enough and not to bother people who been playing online years same way. Yes, question form when you login is still ok to cover you, if you state you are teacher and earn this amount annually and it's reasonable based what you spend in casino, why to hell ask some payslips?

Now when this has come quite huge topic in over year or something, if i would like to laundry my dirty drug money (any better tips than online casinos? ) i really would still go buy these pre-paid cards but would play just little bit in few hundreds casinos to avoid these questions, i assume that money launderers if want to do it online casinos know that same red/black bet roulette is available in most of sites.

As somebody mentioned earlier, if take responsible gaming on account, there still are many casinos where you can split your deposits, i do understand that if somebody constantly keep loosing more than i earn in month, then some interaction need to be taken and person can show to be millionaire (which you probably would find from internet) or if not, change again to other place and there is not database how much people play all together to all gambling sites together but one can save they own ass by requesting SOW which match to income player can show.

As mentioned by somebody, if you would like to have these kind of supervision, it should be taken care from authorities who demand it, like UKGC, MGA, many would be much happier to send requested information to these instances than for small start up casino via email and they should be able to see your total spending and if you have active accounts in 26 casinos where you play regular, there could be some questions.... If these want to be somehow useful, you would need players total consuming and other information, single casino or license don't really offer you much as you can split your playing in so many sites.

 

[LindarAdmin]

As an operator with a newly acquired UK license at MrQ it's incredibly interesting to view all your takes on this. We have very strict rules to abide by as a UK casino, particularly a small, independent business who can't afford hefty fines for non-compliance, so getting to grips with what makes you guys uncomfortable is helpful in guiding our policies.

Generally speaking, I'd say the majority of casinos don't want to ask (particularly if you're a loyal customer without any change in behaviour) but if they don't they'll feel the consequences. It puts a real squeeze on the UK businesses (as well as many outside the UK) as we are guaranteed to lose many, valuable, legitimate and wealthy customers, but in the majority of cases our hands are tied.

It's important to remember that one man's £10 is another man's £1,000 and without insight into personal circumstances, in the eyes of the regulator, the operator hasn't done enough.

 

[Vibroverb]

Totally agree with the above as we're in the same boat. We have to choose choices that we know no players will like but the game has changed in the UK. It's no longer the Casinos setting the rules, but the UKGC and we have to abide by those even if the players don't like it. On another note, this has brought on it's own degree of fraud.
As someone mentioned, the situation is likely to get worse before it gets better. I'm all for transparency, but also for a degree of tolerance

 

[dunover]

As an operator with a newly acquired UK license at MrQ it's incredibly interesting to view all your takes on this. We have very strict rules to abide by as a UK casino, particularly a small, independent business who can't afford hefty fines for non-compliance, so getting to grips with what makes you guys uncomfortable is helpful in guiding our policies.

Generally speaking, I'd say the majority of casinos don't want to ask (particularly if you're a loyal customer without any change in behaviour) but if they don't they'll feel the consequences. It puts a real squeeze on the UK businesses (as well as many outside the UK) as we are guaranteed to lose many, valuable, legitimate and wealthy customers, but in the majority of cases our hands are tied.

It's important to remember that one man's £10 is another man's £1,000 and without insight into personal circumstances, in the eyes of the regulator, the operator hasn't done enough.

Just a point of order - Lindar has requested rep status, but not applied as one as he missed it on sign-up.
Obviously Bryan needs to verify things and correct it and is up to his eyes with the 2018 Nominations and award categories.
So hang fire with the reports as it will be sorted as soon as. For now assume he is genuine! Cheers!

 

[amourgirl]

If a criminal was good enough at what he does that he had a need to launder dirty money do they really think an SOW would stop them. They are more able than most to be able to find a way round it. The only people it actually affects is your average joe. Is SOW to discover source of wealth or not? Is it feck! If it was truly that then why does it seem to kick in on a withdrawal?!?

As for the reason behind the UKGCs SOW insistence in the first place is more likely to be a precursor to the big one... A complete database of gamblers within the UK what casinos they play at, tax code, national insurance number from their wage slip and How much they have won and not paid TAX on

 

[colinsunderland]

If a criminal was good enough at what he does that he had a need to launder dirty money do they really think an SOW would stop them. They are more able than most to be able to find a way round it. The only people it actually affects is your average joe. Is SOW to discover source of wealth or not? Is it feck! If it was truly that then why does it seem to kick in on a withdrawal?!?

As for the reason behind the UKGCs SOW insistence in the first place is more likely to be a precursor to the big one... A complete database of gamblers within the UK what casinos they play at, tax code, national insurance number from their wage slip and How much they have won and not paid TAX on

Slight problem with that, winnings aren't taxable in almost every case

 

[Jono777]

Slight problem with that, winnings aren't taxable in almost every case

For now?

Could this be subject to change and SoW is a sort of pre-emptive strike?

Thoughts not knowledge!

 

[mac72]

It won’t be to charge tax they’ll never do that as the flip side is offsetting losses.
No what you’ll find it will steer towards will be a database that gives them your total deposits over all UKGC sites , total losses/winnings and that linked with the stuff they already use like value of your home, car owned etc and then cross referenced against declared earnings /tax paid to weed out any tax dodgers

 

[dpp00]

Slight problem with that, winnings aren't taxable in almost every case

they will be , never underestimate governments willingness to squeeze some more tax pounds,

not to worry though it will be for something worthwhile like "children without socks"

helping to lower there carbon footprint .

 

[colinsunderland]

they will be , never underestimate governments willingness to squeeze some more tax pounds,

not to worry though it will be for something worthwhile like "children without socks"

helping to lower there carbon footprint .

They won't. Why piss off people who vote for them by doing that when they can just increase taxation for the casinos. Maybe piss a few owners and employees off but nowhere near as many as they would if they started taking a 10% cut from all winnings!

 

[Cdoggy]

As an operator with a newly acquired UK license at MrQ it's incredibly interesting to view all your takes on this. We have very strict rules to abide by as a UK casino, particularly a small, independent business who can't afford hefty fines for non-compliance, so getting to grips with what makes you guys uncomfortable is helpful in guiding our policies.

Interesting post and I am sure the last thing casino's wanna do is piss of there highest value players. I would be interested to see if any of those who have supplied SOW have been incentivised in any way and would that change their attitude towards providing documentation. I'v personally been asked for this multiple times and left the casino, but i'v recently been told by my rep that I can expect cash bonuses on completion if everything checks out. Thoughts appreciated can they do this would this? would this gesture make you trust them more or less?

Would be an interesting follow up poll, but not sure how to post it!