Self Exclusion Failure?

[colinsunderland]

So I’ve just been on live chat (I think eventually they just cut the chat off) as I’m not getting replies to my emails.

I’ve asked for a SAR and that was just blanked as a question, I then said can I have a log of the information put forward and got generic reply’s if it’s all automated, it’s with GamStop etc etc. I have the transcript saved.

To not even give me this information I think is suspicious to say the least, if they are in the right what is there to hide?

Go back on live chat and ask again for a SAR, and tell them it specifically needs to include responses to the automated response from gamstop every time you logged in and when you created the account

 

[colinsunderland]

The leo vegas rep hasn't viewed the thread yet, have you sent him a PM?

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Go back on live chat and ask again for a SAR, and tell them it specifically needs to include responses to the automated response from gamstop every time you logged in and when you created the account

Hi Colin,

This is what I ended up with: verified me etc before this: full transcript available.

Me:
So am I able to get a record of my account and all of the interaction with GamStop?

Me: Subject access request I believe it is called

Rep: As advised we do not have contact with Gamstop Xxxx


Me:
I understand that but when they send a reply to say whether someone is excluded or not that information must go somewhere

Me: Otherwise how does a casino know if they are excluded or not


Rep:

This is automatically run, when you register with Gamstop, if the correct details are registered, then this will exclude any casino that is part of Gamstop xxxx





Me: Agreed but what I’m saying is can I have a log of the information that GamStop sent back to

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

each time I logged in and also when I registered

Rep: This is not how this works Xxxx, this is simply when you register your details, this will exclude any casino accounts you have that are registered with Gamstop.

Me:
Right so you are suggesting that when GamStop say yes or no to a person being a problem gambler then that information to tell the casino that just vanishes?

Rep:
I can confirm this computer generated, they do not contact us personally, this is simply applied by you entering your correct personal details and then this would apply an exclusion if the details match those of what is registered on an account with us.

Me: I understand it’s all done electronically John but the information must be stored somewhere for your system to know whether a player is excluded or not?

Rep:
This information will be with Gamstop, if the details are correct then this will automatically exclude an account with the same details on our side.

Me:

But I should also be entitled to see which details 21 put forward for checking, what if they haven’t put forward all of my personal details

It then suggests I left the chat, either I had a sudden loss of WiFi and 4g or I was cut off.


Am I mad in thinking that was a awkward way of both not answering the question and not giving me access to the information requested?

 

[EkJR]

Right, ask Gamstop for a PDF copy of your registered details. Compare this against what was used to register on 21.co.uk. If 4 of the 5 items or more match then you have a case. Only then will you be in a position to go through the complaints process if it's still denied. You must request this from Gamstop in an email. If you exhaust the complaints process and still don't get a refund then raise it with the UKGC. That's the best advice I can give you for now. An ADR won't help as they don't bother with RG issues.

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Right, ask Gamstop for a PDF copy of your registered details. Compare this against what was used to register on 21.co.uk. If 4 of the 5 items or more match then you have a case. Only then will you be in a position to go through the complaints process if it's still denied. You must request this from Gamstop in an email. If you exhaust the complaints process and still don't get a refund then raise it with the UKGC. That's the best advice I can give you for now. An ADR won't help as they don't bother with RG issues.

Hi EK

This I have done. I was asked to provide it to 21 at the outset of me raising the issue. I’m confident that 4 of the details match yes.

I contacted IBAS as 21 suggested but like you say they couldn’t assist.

21 have issued me a final response but as we can see from the above they are not willing to provide any information despite numerous requests since.

 

[EkJR]

Hi EK

This I have done. I was asked to provide it to 21 at the outset of me raising the issue. I’m confident that 4 of the details match yes.

I contacted IBAS as 21 suggested but like you say they couldn’t assist.

21 have issued me a final response but as we can see from the above they are not willing to provide any information despite numerous requests since.

Ok, if it's a final response you need to contact the Gambling Commission.

In terms of the SAR, they have 30 days to provide it as is your legal right. At the very least it will show the details registered and you can show it against Gamstop.

I would also contact the rep on here and see what can be done. I doubt they will want UKGC exposure. Also, raise it on Casino grounds as they part run that site.

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Ok, if it's a final response you need to contact the Gambling Commission.

In terms of the SAR, they have 30 days to provide it as is your legal right. At the very least it will show the details registered and you can show it against Gamstop.

I would also contact the rep on here and see what can be done. I doubt they will want UKGC exposure. Also, raise it on Casino grounds as they part run that site.

Thanks for the advice EK

 

[colinsunderland]

@LeoVegas Rep so is that a company wide policy to ignore a customers SAR when asked for one?

I would go back and ask them again, and complain that you have been ignored x number of times, speak to a manager instead. They legally have to take your request and action it. If they refuse again, also report them to the ICO.

Regardless if the 4/5 fields were matches, you still don't know who's fault it is. If Gamstop sent a negative response, then LeoVegas have done no wrong.

 

[TravellingRecluse]

@LeoVegas Rep so is that a company wide policy to ignore a customers SAR when asked for one?

I would go back and ask them again, and complain that you have been ignored x number of times, speak to a manager instead. They legally have to take your request and action it. If they refuse again, also report them to the ICO.

Regardless if the 4/5 fields were matches, you still don't know who's fault it is. If Gamstop sent a negative response, then LeoVegas have done no wrong.

I’ve never ruled out that GamStop could be at fault but right now that are assisting/cooperating however you wish to put it.

As of the last 3 days the 21 support have fobbed me off on live chat and ignored my emails.

I was issued my final response by their fraud and risk manager and it’s that same person who has not replied to a single one of my emails since Friday.

 

[colinsunderland]

I’ve never ruled out that GamStop could be at fault but right now that are assisting/cooperating however you wish to put it.

As of the last 3 days the 21 support have fobbed me off on live chat and ignored my emails.

I was issued my final response by their fraud and risk manager and it’s that same person who has not replied to a single one of my emails since Friday.

Well yes but Gamstop have also been evasive and not told you the truth have they so I wouldn't put too much credibility in that!

Ask Gamstop how many times a query has been made against your details and who by

 

[Playford7]

The leo vegas rep hasn't viewed the thread yet, have you sent him a PM?

The leo rep really struggles to reply.
Almost as endangered as a lion... ironic

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Well yes but Gamstop have also been evasive and not told you the truth have they so I wouldn't put too much credibility in that!

Ask Gamstop how many times a query has been made against your details and who by

This I will do tomorrow morning.

As I’ve said, I don’t know the intricate processes but if you all say that they have given me false info then I have no reason do disbelieve you all.

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Well yes but Gamstop have also been evasive and not told you the truth have they so I wouldn't put too much credibility in that!

Ask Gamstop how many times a query has been made against your details and who by

Having spoken to livechat at GamStop they advise that the records of checks made and by who are not kept, data protection reasons is what they say.

 

[colinsunderland]

Having spoken to livechat at GamStop they advise that the records of checks made and by who are not kept, data protection reasons is what they say.

Then 21 should have a record of the response.

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Then 21 should have a record of the response.

As you will know Colin, this has been requested but not provided.

I would imagine that this is such a small thing to the UKGC that they won’t have time for it but whatever the outcome they need to be aware that the system in place is flawed.

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Having read through the transcript again from my live chat with 21 earlier, they say all the response information is held by GamStop, neither of them seem to have it so who does

 

[EkJR]

As you will know Colin, this has been requested but not provided.

I would imagine that this is such a small thing to the UKGC that they won’t have time for it but whatever the outcome they need to be aware that the system in place is flawed.

Don't be so sure.. particularly with the large number of posts on here and other forums around the LV group recently

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Had a reply from the Leo Vegas rep via PM, they said contact 21 directly as they can’t assist.

Which obviously I have attempted to do and keep hitting brick walls

 

[TravellingRecluse]

I have now logged this with the UKGC and should I not get my SAR within the 30 days of request from 21 then I’ll take that to the ICO.

I think 4 working days to respond to an email is sufficient wouldn’t we all agree?

 

[TravellingRecluse]

The UKGC have made an initial reply already, impressive.

They have asked me to provide additional information which obviously I’m happy to do.

One thing they have asked for is a copy of my transactions with 21.

Obviously without a SAR that might be challenging so once again I’ve gone back to 21 stating that the UKGC have asked for this and it’s a legal requirement that they provide it.

21 have replied to one of my recent emails but only stating that marketing emails may not been stopped until after 48 hours or so, no acknowledgment of the fact they did not share my self exclusion with Leo Vegas Casino.

Obviously the UKGC state they cannot comment on specific cases etc etc, I understand that but the fact they have asked me to provide additional information shows they at least take an interest in these matters, I’m impressed.

Let’s see if 21 decide to provide the SAR details, surely they will now as it won’t look favourable if they don’t

 

[EkJR]

The UKGC have made an initial reply already, impressive.

They have asked me to provide additional information which obviously I’m happy to do.

One thing they have asked for is a copy of my transactions with 21.

Obviously without a SAR that might be challenging so once again I’ve gone back to 21 stating that the UKGC have asked for this and it’s a legal requirement that they provide it.

21 have replied to one of my recent emails but only stating that marketing emails may not been stopped until after 48 hours or so, no acknowledgment of the fact they did not share my self exclusion with Leo Vegas Casino.

Obviously the UKGC state they cannot comment on specific cases etc etc, I understand that but the fact they have asked me to provide additional information shows they at least take an interest in these matters, I’m impressed.

Let’s see if 21 decide to provide the SAR details, surely they will now as it won’t look favourable if they don’t

Pretty prompt by their standards. 21 must provide a SAR, it's your right under the law

 

[colinsunderland]

email dpo@leovegas.com and tell them you requested a SAR via live chat on 'date' but you have no confidence it was processed, and you would like to double check live chat did in fact start your request, and if not, why not.

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Pretty prompt by their standards. 21 must provide a SAR, it's your right under the law

They didn’t seem too concerned by that the other day.

I’m guessing they will but will probably drag it out until day 29 of the 30 allowed.

I asked 21 to clarify what details they put forward at registration and each time I’ve logged in. Nothing as of yet.

One thing in the UKGC email is that after 72 hours of account opening if you are allowed to deposit further amounts and play then this would be part of their investigation into any possible breach.

The bit im struggling to get my head around is:

21 say that the details didn’t match according to GamStop responses, they have copies of both records so they know what they are suggesting does not match, they don’t tell me which.

However they were able to verify me by KYC apparently, if this is the case what have they referenced it against? voters roll? Those details have they verified me on are the same as GS verification should have been, bar my address.

Enough of those details must have matched to pass KYC and bar the address these are the same details on my GamStop registration.

 

[TravellingRecluse]

email dpo@leovegas.com and tell them you requested a SAR via live chat on 'date' but you have no confidence it was processed, and you would like to double check live chat did in fact start your request, and if not, why not.

Cheers for the advice Colin

 

[TravellingRecluse]

Cheers for the advice Colin

Sent that email now as per your advice