Self Exclusion Failure?

They didn’t seem too concerned by that the other day.

I’m guessing they will but will probably drag it out until day 29 of the 30 allowed.

I asked 21 to clarify what details they put forward at registration and each time I’ve logged in. Nothing as of yet.

One thing in the UKGC email is that after 72 hours of account opening if you are allowed to deposit further amounts and play then this would be part of their investigation into any possible breach.

The bit im struggling to get my head around is:

21 say that the details didn’t match according to GamStop responses, they have copies of both records so they know what they are suggesting does not match, they don’t tell me which.

However they were able to verify me by KYC apparently, if this is the case what have they referenced it against? voters roll? Those details have they verified me on are the same as GS verification should have been, bar my address.

Enough of those details must have matched to pass KYC and bar the address these are the same details on my GamStop registration.

The 72 hour rule is about age verification. They normally do this automatically by doing a soft check. So your name, DOB and address would be checked against the voters roll. If your DOB or address didn't match they would have to ask for a passport/official ID to verify. This would normally be 24 hours after first deposit, if not before. If they pass 72 hours from first deposit they have to freeze the account until the ID is sent and they have verified the account for further deposits. KYC is a bit different, there isn't a deadline as such, but there are trigger points such as exceeding 2k deposits or withdrawing funds. They then need to do KYC for money laundering purposes.
 
The 72 hour rule is about age verification. They normally do this automatically by doing a soft check. So your name, DOB and address would be checked against the voters roll. If your DOB or address didn't match they would have to ask for a passport/official ID to verify. This would normally be 24 hours after first deposit, if not before. If they pass 72 hours from first deposit they have to freeze the account until the ID is sent and they have verified the account for further deposits. KYC is a bit different, there isn't a deadline as such, but there are trigger points such as exceeding 2k deposits or withdrawing funds. They then need to do KYC for money laundering purposes.

Interesting you say that as I thought the same, as of now, having recently moved I am not on the voters roll.

Would it still show using historical addresses?
 
Interesting you say that as I thought the same, as of now, having recently moved I am not on the voters roll.

Would it still show using historical addresses?

Realistically it should do yeah but they only need to check against the address that you signed up with. That's why they ask you sometimes to provide a copy of ID, utility bill at that stage. As part of KYC they ask for the same and sometimes a copy of the card used or bank statement. If they already have the detail from the age checks then they normally only ask for the card. It's all about them being fully satisfied they know who you are.
 
Realistically it should do yeah but they only need to check against the address that you signed up with. That's why they ask you sometimes to provide a copy of ID, utility bill at that stage. As part of KYC they ask for the same and sometimes a copy of the card used or bank statement. If they already have the detail from the age checks then they normally only ask for the card. It's all about them being fully satisfied they know who you are.

Fair enough, they have asked for nothing so far, we’ll I’m guessing they won’t now as I’m self excluded
 
An update if anyone is interested.

The DPO officer from LV Grouo has replied to my email stating they will reply within 30 days of them confirming my identity!!

surely they know my identity or they would not have been able to complete the KYC etc etc that they claimed to have done within 72 hours of me opening the account at 21?

Sounds like an attempt to delay the process I have in motion with the UKGC.

Then it says if you haven’t heard within 30 days then contact me again and I’ll look into it.

They seem to take a very laid back approach to something that is quite important
 
Any one who is in the know please answer the following question:

When asking for an SAR is it reasonable (I have no issue in sending them) to request a copy of my passport (they already have this!!) and a bank statement as proof of address.

They have already told me they verified me as per KYC requirements/regulations yet now as they word it “we are providing a lot of information” they need to be fully sure they are sending it to the right person.
MIT just drags on and on
 
Any one who is in the know please answer the following question:

When asking for an SAR is it reasonable (I have no issue in sending them) to request a copy of my passport (they already have this!!) and a bank statement as proof of address.

They have already told me they verified me as per KYC requirements/regulations yet now as they word it “we are providing a lot of information” they need to be fully sure they are sending it to the right person.
MIT just drags on and on

Not really, if they don't think they have identified you sufficiently then you shouldn't have been playing, but they are entitled to ask for it.
If you were to make a complaint it would be at the casino for not verifying you properly initially.

Surely you have already sent ID and proof of address in though, so is this different to what you used for verification? Otherwise they already have them so how will the same documents prove you are the right person, if they don't trust what they already hold on you?
 
Not really, if they don't think they have identified you sufficiently then you shouldn't have been playing, but they are entitled to ask for it.
If you were to make a complaint it would be at the casino for not verifying you properly initially.

Surely you have already sent ID and proof of address in though, so is this different to what you used for verification? Otherwise they already have them so how will the same documents prove you are the right person, if they don't trust what they already hold on you?


Hi Colin,

They have not asked me to send anything in up until the SAR request. They claim they were able to verify me previously using whatever automated method they use.
I sent them my passport previously to show my name and DOB against the GS registration, they have chosen to ignore/disregard this.

I never found myself in the position to withdraw so I’m guessing only then do casinos generally ask you for supporting documents, I can only think of one casino in the last 10+ years that has asked for them before requesting a withdrawal.
 
A further update on this one.

21 have provided a SAR for my account but there is no mention at all of the GamStop checks or replies that came through.

I asked for these details nearly 3 days ago and still nothing. I was told it will take some time to collect the information, really? I’m meant to believe that? Surely they will be there on my file like all the other info?
 
How many of the details match the Gamstop registration?

First Name, Surname, Date of Birth, Postcode and email address

If 4 out of 5 match then I would also be getting back onto Gamstop.
 
Can it be that if they only receive Yes/No answer from Gamstop, they don't store that information (ie. for GDPR reasons) but just on every login/registration attempt make a call to Gamstop and get Yes/No only answer and block or let you keep going based on that?

Just guessing but might really be that they don't store these all requests which are made in every single login for all UK players and maybe it's something not to be stored as there are no ML or other reasons. Would be interesting for you to see how your details were added there to Gamstop and casino to see how system worked, was there something in very different format or all exactly same etc....

Don't know if there is some instance who could compare your login details to Gamstop registered details to judge if they should have picked it up. Hope you get clear answers to your issue and we can learn what they can pick and what not and how big difference there must be that system don't recognize it.
 
How many of the details match the Gamstop registration?

First Name, Surname, Date of Birth, Postcode and email address

If 4 out of 5 match then I would also be getting back onto Gamstop.


First name, surname, DOB and email address yes, residential address was different as you know.

GS have said they can only respond to requests from the operator based on the information that is put forward for checking, this is what I don’t know right now as 21 did not include the results in the SAR
 
Can it be that if they only receive Yes/No answer from Gamstop, they don't store that information (ie. for GDPR reasons) but just on every login/registration attempt make a call to Gamstop and get Yes/No only answer and block or let you keep going based on that?

Just guessing but might really be that they don't store these all requests which are made in every single login for all UK players and maybe it's something not to be stored as there are no ML or other reasons. Would be interesting for you to see how your details were added there to Gamstop and casino to see how system worked, was there something in very different format or all exactly same etc....

Don't know if there is some instance who could compare your login details to Gamstop registered details to judge if they should have picked it up. Hope you get clear answers to your issue and we can learn what they can pick and what not and how big difference there must be that system don't recognize it.


It is possible that the information is not stored I guess yes, I don’t know the intricate details of it all. I just asking the casino to provide a summary of the responses received as I would assume and hope that these are recorded even as a simple yes/no as you suggest after registration and after each log in.

Who knows what the answer is to it all but I’m of the thinking that if they are set to introduce a system of KYC at registration/before first deposit then there may be a lack of belief in the current system and it’s effectivness.
 
Who knows what the answer is to it all but I’m of the thinking that if they are set to introduce a system of KYC at registration/before first deposit then there may be a lack of belief in the current system and it’s effectivness.

That's for sure. It should not be a rocket science to make some simple things to match, i stated in some topic that IMO, Name, DOB and country should be enough. Even two most common names in UK or other country most probably don't have exact same DOB and these coudl be sorted case by case if two John Smiths have bornth exact same date in Brighton.... There is still lot to do in this system, there should be all standardized fields for post codes and other information what only can be given in same format than they are given to Gamstop etc... we'll see how it's going on....

Basically it's one call to database to see if details match, computers don't have too much brains to see little differences, so therefore using standard format for all registrations regulated in UK would help at least little bit when there is just API call or something to check in second if things are exact enough same.
 
First name, surname, DOB and email address yes, residential address was different as you know.

GS have said they can only respond to requests from the operator based on the information that is put forward for checking, this is what I don’t know right now as 21 did not include the results in the SAR

ok, so now you know what information was sent to gamstop, and 4 of the 5 fields match, so I would be getting onto gamstop to find out why they sent a negative response to 21.co.uk.
Its a joke that you have to run round like this. I would be pissed off by now and just have done a chargeback.
 
ok, so now you know what information was sent to gamstop, and 4 of the 5 fields match, so I would be getting onto gamstop to find out why they sent a negative response
to 21.co.uk.
Its a joke that you have to run round like this. I would be pissed off by now and just have done a chargeback.

Yes it is a bit of a joke isn’t it.

If I’m correct though most banks including my own, Natwest, don’t allow chargebacks on gambling transactions?
 
Yes it is a bit of a joke isn’t it.

If I’m correct though most banks including my own, Natwest, don’t allow chargebacks on gambling transactions?

They will be reluctant to get involved, however, they are legally obliged to process it as they would any other transaction so don't let them fob you off if you go down that route.

I admire your perseverance on this matter. I know it's hassle but you are doing a good service to the community by not dropping the matter and keeping us informed.

Good luck
 
They will be reluctant to get involved, however, they are legally obliged to process it as they would any other transaction so don't let them fob you off if you go down that route.

I admire your perseverance on this matter. I know it's hassle but you are doing a good service to the community by not dropping the matter and keeping us informed.

Good luck


Cheers for the kind words. I think it’s because I always act with integrity and compassion towards my clients at work and if I do something wrong I get punished in both reputation and financial terms.

Still awaiting a reply from 21 with the responses sent by GamStop each time so let’s see what they say, 3 working days and counting.
 
They will be reluctant to get involved, however, they are legally obliged to process it as they would any other transaction so don't let them fob you off if you go down that route.

I admire your perseverance on this matter. I know it's hassle but you are doing a good service to the community by not dropping the matter and keeping us informed.

Good luck

Not sure that's correct. The main UK banks will not dispute gambling coded transactions unless it's related to a potential fraud.
 
Not sure that's correct. The main UK banks will not dispute gambling coded transactions unless it's related to a potential fraud.


That’s what I’ve read and was lead to believe.

Basically I’m screwed then really aren’t I,
The system is broken, the casino wins as always and I get nothing. ABR couldn’t help, UKGC said send us more details, which I’m trying to arrange.

The casino is not giving me all of the details that are required.

Even if the UKGC did seem they were at fault and put a fine in place I’d get nothing as that would just into their coffers.
 
That’s what I’ve read and was lead to believe.

Basically I’m screwed then really aren’t I,
The system is broken, the casino wins as always and I get nothing. ABR couldn’t help, UKGC said send us more details, which I’m trying to arrange.

The casino is not giving me all of the details that are required.

Even if the UKGC did seem they were at fault and put a fine in place I’d get nothing as that would just into their coffers.

Don't give up on it just yet. Get a copy of your Gamstop certificate and show this versus the sign up details. You can prove beyond doubt that their system failed to detect it.
 
Don't give up on it just yet. Get a copy of your Gamstop certificate and show this versus the sign up details. You can prove beyond doubt that their system failed to detect it.

I have a copy of the GamStop certificate and my first, surname, DOB and email match but they are not interested in this point. I’ve sent my passport to prove who I am and I must have passed KYC as I was able to log in and deposit for over 72 hours so I have nowhere else to go.

The fact that they are dragging out sending me the GS responses from registration and log in is annoying and suspicious though. This should not take 3 days, nearly 4.

The original SAR only took 2!!
 
I have a copy of the GamStop certificate and my first, surname, DOB and email match but they are not interested in this point. I’ve sent my passport to prove who I am and I must have passed KYC as I was able to log in and deposit for over 72 hours so I have nowhere else to go.

The fact that they are dragging out sending me the GS responses from registration and log in is annoying and suspicious though. This should not take 3 days, nearly 4.

The original SAR only took 2!!

Amazed the SAR took 2 days. Normally around 4 weeks.

Are they going to provide the Gamstop check details? Have you raised a case to the UKGC?
 

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