Refused payment from Silver Oak Casino!

[bgermain1985]

I registered with a 150$ no deposit free chip on Silver Oaks.
While playing, I triggered a Random Jackpot for over 4k$ with my remaining playthrough at about 3.6k

So I say to myself, OK - lets bet 100$ a spin to resolve the remaining playthrough since it doesn't matter much anyways.
Now, the thing with the bonus coupons today is that when you beat the playthrough, the excess amount is withdrawn
to the maximum alotted. The money moves from a bonus state into a cash state.

Well, due to the lag in the transaction process and my excited spinnage, the bonus money removed itself, and my balance was 150$
as I clicked the 100$ bet spin button again.

NOOOOOO, but then, wait?!? I triggered the feature!!

Total win is approximately 9,000$!! How exciting

So I check out the transaction history and low and behold, the automatic withdrawal for the extra
bonus money did in fact happen (it was some -5,000 adjustment abouts.)

Now, my account has about 9,300 USD in it and I have submitted my faxback forms.

~ Based on the occurance of events, I should be entitled to the full amount! The question lies in the payout process ~

Confirmation email is then received regarding the documents! Request for withdrawals made and they are currently sitting in a pending status...


It continues.

1/12/2010
All requests were cancelled and the total amount removed from my account.
However, the amount for 150$ was still approved...

1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Approved! ($9,150.00)
1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Requested ($9,150.00)
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:58 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:30 PM Bank Check / Draft Withdrawal Declined $650.00
1/12/2010 12:50:30 PM Bank Check / Draft Withdrawal Approved! ($150.00)
1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71)
1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71)
1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150 ' redeemed $150.00
1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150' requested




Chat log continues as followed:

A site operator will be with you momentarily. Please be reminded, in order to ensure your future deposits and withdrawals are processed efficiently, it is very important to verify that we have your current personal information updated in our system along with any documentation necessary for withdrawals. Thank you for your cooperation.
Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Amanda'. How can I help you?
Amanda: Hello, Welcome to Silver Oak Casino!
Brandon Germain: hello Amanda,
Brandon Germain: a recent cashout request was declined and the amount was removed
Brandon Germain: can you provide information regarding this?
Brandon Germain: hello?
Amanda: im here
Amanda: sorry
Amanda: may i have the username please?
Brandon Germain: bgermain
Brandon Germain: I would like some understanding and explanation regarding the current status of my account
Brandon Germain: Basically, here is my end of the story:
Brandon Germain: If you can see the no deposit coupon was redeemed and played, the playthrough had completed and the excess funds removed
Brandon Germain: 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150 ' redeemed $150.00
Brandon Germain: At this point, I have cleared the playthrough and the amount was awarded as cash credit (no longer in a bonus status)
Brandon Germain: I continue to play and was very lucky to have won what I did.
Brandon Germain: I can understand if the excess was removed before playthrough was completed as the maximum coupon yield was 150$. However at the point the excess funds were removed, the coupon had resolved.
Amanda: One more moment. I apologize for the wait.
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Danny'.
Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Danny'. How can I help you?
Brandon Germain: Hey Danny
Danny: hello
Brandon Germain: has the previous transcript been transferred to you?
Brandon Germain: I was forwarded by Amanda.
Danny: allow me to catch up with the chat
Danny: be right with you
Brandon Germain: excellent.
Brandon Germain: take your time please
Danny: you have ($150.00) approved today
Danny: in about 7 business days it will be sent out
Danny: that is the max cash out on the free chip
Brandon Germain: I understand that, isn't that what this transaction represents though?
Brandon Germain: 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71)
Brandon Germain: the coupon itself was reduced to 150, and the balance was transferred from bonus into cash.
Brandon Germain: it was at that point I continued to play and was very lucky enough to continue my winnings.
Danny: yes Coupon Reversal It means that the playthrough amount is completed, leaving you with the cash able amount from the free chip you used.
Danny: which is $150 we denied and kept every single penny
Danny: and we only send you $150
Danny: Is there anything else that I can help you with?
Brandon Germain: right I understand that
Brandon Germain: so I was left with the cashable amount - please do not misunderstand
Brandon Germain: I'm simply trying to understand
Brandon Germain: there's also the other transaction after that coupon reversal
Brandon Germain: 1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Approved! ($9,150.00) 1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Requested ($9,150.00)
Brandon Germain: this happened after the coupon reversal, after playing with the remaining cashable portion
Danny: yes that's right all happen as it should
Danny: your just making more complicated
Danny: forget everything and only focus on $150
Danny: understood ?
Brandon Germain: I do understand - so what you are saying is that, after coupon reversal happens, the amount leftover can only be withdrawn and cannot be played with?
Danny: yes
Danny: 10 business days from the 12th your $150 should be sent out
Danny: any other questions ?

Danny: Have fun and good luck!
Chat session has ended. This may have been a technical error.

*** I am typing at this point - less than 10 seconds to respond ***

 

[SlotKing]

This "Danny" character became a little unprofessional towards the end - if he had talked to me like that, I would have asked for his manager.

Danny: which is $150 we denied and kept every single penny
Danny: and we only send you $150

Danny: your just making more complicated
Danny: forget everything and only focus on $150
Danny: understood ?

However, since Silver Oak is part of the ever-rogued Crystal Palace group, good luck on getting any money from them. You can read about why they have been rogued (forever) here.

Also, you may not want to post your complaint over every Silver Oak thread there is - it makes the mods a little mad and only slows any resolving down.

 

[Pinababy69]

Unfortunately, Bgermain...it wouldn't really matter which casino (RTG) you were playing, you would only be entitled to a certain amount (max cashout) on a free chip..in this case $150. That being said, get your $150 from these guys and don't ever go back. They are part of the Virtual stable of casinos, and you will probably have to do everything but send in DNA just to get the $150.

You were still technically playing on the free chip, even after the excess funds were removed after meeting playthrough...and as such, are limited to the max withdrawal of $150. This wouldn't matter if you were playing at this rogue outfit...or at one of the better RTG's. A no deposit chip is just that, and has its limitations.

Sidenote: Out of curiousity, I wonder if "Danny" is Virtual Danny? The attitude sounds about the same...but I thought he left that crooked outfit?

EDIT: SlotKing is right....they were part of the Crystal Palace (ROGUE) Group, but were rebranded Virtual, after Warren Cloud's demise. That's my understanding anyway. And you're right SlotKing...very rude and unprofessional. That's why I asked if it was the infamous Virtual Danny.

 

[winbig]

Be lucky if you get the $150 at all, and never deposit a penny in this casino. Even if your balance did get that high, there's no way you're going to see it.

 

[The Dude]

You are right - they are connected, but the jury is still out on whether they have the same support etc., etc.

In fact, I'm in the midst of reviewing their situation at the moment. After WC's demise, his partners wanted to rid themselves of the casinos and sold them to a firm in Costa Rica - which is connected to the Virtual Casino Group/Gambling Wages.

From there they were rebranded, and are now being marketed by Acerevenue, and they very well may have separate offices. Whether they are down the hall from each other or in separate buildings, who knows but them.

Virtual Danny is a fake name (hope you guys figured that one out already), and the guy who did work that shift moved on a couple of years ago. In fact, I heard he quit after the no pay fiasco of the $1.5 million winner. He was pretty much disgusted with everything that was going on there..

Anyways, looks like bgermain1985 got nailed with the free chip thingy. Shouldn't have been playing there...

 

[bernynhel]

I registered with a 150$ no deposit free chip on Silver Oaks.
While playing, I triggered a Random Jackpot for over 4k$ with my remaining playthrough at about 3.6k

So I say to myself, OK - lets bet 100$ a spin to resolve the remaining playthrough since it doesn't matter much anyways.
Now, the thing with the bonus coupons today is that when you beat the playthrough, the excess amount is withdrawn
to the maximum alotted. The money moves from a bonus state into a cash state.

Well, due to the lag in the transaction process and my excited spinnage, the bonus money removed itself, and my balance was 150$
as I clicked the 100$ bet spin button again.

NOOOOOO, but then, wait?!? I triggered the feature!!

Total win is approximately 9,000$!! How exciting

So I check out the transaction history and low and behold, the automatic withdrawal for the extra
bonus money did in fact happen (it was some -5,000 adjustment abouts.)

Now, my account has about 9,300 USD in it and I have submitted my faxback forms.

~ Based on the occurance of events, I should be entitled to the full amount! The question lies in the payout process ~

Confirmation email is then received regarding the documents! Request for withdrawals made and they are currently sitting in a pending status...


It continues.

1/12/2010
All requests were cancelled and the total amount removed from my account.
However, the amount for 150$ was still approved...

1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Approved! ($9,150.00)
1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Requested ($9,150.00)
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:19 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:18 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:51:00 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:59 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:58 PM UseMyWallet Withdrawal Declined $500.00
1/12/2010 12:50:30 PM Bank Check / Draft Withdrawal Declined $650.00
1/12/2010 12:50:30 PM Bank Check / Draft Withdrawal Approved! ($150.00)
1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71)
1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71)
1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150 ' redeemed $150.00
1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150' requested




Chat log continues as followed:

A site operator will be with you momentarily. Please be reminded, in order to ensure your future deposits and withdrawals are processed efficiently, it is very important to verify that we have your current personal information updated in our system along with any documentation necessary for withdrawals. Thank you for your cooperation.
Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Amanda'. How can I help you?
Amanda: Hello, Welcome to Silver Oak Casino!
Brandon Germain: hello Amanda,
Brandon Germain: a recent cashout request was declined and the amount was removed
Brandon Germain: can you provide information regarding this?
Brandon Germain: hello?
Amanda: im here
Amanda: sorry
Amanda: may i have the username please?
Brandon Germain: bgermain
Brandon Germain: I would like some understanding and explanation regarding the current status of my account
Brandon Germain: Basically, here is my end of the story:
Brandon Germain: If you can see the no deposit coupon was redeemed and played, the playthrough had completed and the excess funds removed
Brandon Germain: 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 3:55:04 PM Coupon 'NODEPOSIT150 ' redeemed $150.00
Brandon Germain: At this point, I have cleared the playthrough and the amount was awarded as cash credit (no longer in a bonus status)
Brandon Germain: I continue to play and was very lucky to have won what I did.
Brandon Germain: I can understand if the excess was removed before playthrough was completed as the maximum coupon yield was 150$. However at the point the excess funds were removed, the coupon had resolved.
Amanda: One more moment. I apologize for the wait.
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Danny'.
Thank you for using our LiveChat Service. This is 'Danny'. How can I help you?
Brandon Germain: Hey Danny
Danny: hello
Brandon Germain: has the previous transcript been transferred to you?
Brandon Germain: I was forwarded by Amanda.
Danny: allow me to catch up with the chat
Danny: be right with you
Brandon Germain: excellent.
Brandon Germain: take your time please
Danny: you have ($150.00) approved today
Danny: in about 7 business days it will be sent out
Danny: that is the max cash out on the free chip
Brandon Germain: I understand that, isn't that what this transaction represents though?
Brandon Germain: 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Approved! ($5,316.71) 1/3/2010 4:24:21 PM Coupon Reversal Withdrawal Requested ($5,316.71)
Brandon Germain: the coupon itself was reduced to 150, and the balance was transferred from bonus into cash.
Brandon Germain: it was at that point I continued to play and was very lucky enough to continue my winnings.
Danny: yes Coupon Reversal It means that the playthrough amount is completed, leaving you with the cash able amount from the free chip you used.
Danny: which is $150 we denied and kept every single penny
Danny: and we only send you $150
Danny: Is there anything else that I can help you with?
Brandon Germain: right I understand that
Brandon Germain: so I was left with the cashable amount - please do not misunderstand
Brandon Germain: I'm simply trying to understand
Brandon Germain: there's also the other transaction after that coupon reversal
Brandon Germain: 1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Approved! ($9,150.00) 1/12/2010 12:51:45 PM Promo Credit Withdrawal Requested ($9,150.00)
Brandon Germain: this happened after the coupon reversal, after playing with the remaining cashable portion
Danny: yes that's right all happen as it should
Danny: your just making more complicated
Danny: forget everything and only focus on $150
Danny: understood ?
Brandon Germain: I do understand - so what you are saying is that, after coupon reversal happens, the amount leftover can only be withdrawn and cannot be played with?
Danny: yes
Danny: 10 business days from the 12th your $150 should be sent out
Danny: any other questions ?

Danny: Have fun and good luck!
Chat session has ended. This may have been a technical error.

*** I am typing at this point - less than 10 seconds to respond ***

Oy vey... If you print out your chat transcript, that paper will be worth more than you'll ever see outta these guys. Go to Vegas this weekend and drop $20k on the craps tables at Caesars, (or maybe Atlantic City, in your case but, for my money, it don't touch Caesars) least the service is tip-top. And ya might get lucky and get kissed by somebody during the act, which is always a nice touch when you're gettin' screwed.

 

[bgermain1985]

Oy vey... If you print out your chat transcript, that paper will be worth more than you'll ever see outta these guys. Go to Vegas this weekend and drop $20k on the craps tables at Caesars, (or maybe Atlantic City, in your case but, for my money, it don't touch Caesars) least the service is tip-top. And ya might get lucky and get kissed by somebody during the act, which is always a nice touch when you're gettin' screwed.

Yes exactly! I figured I would at least get a good story out of this, wasnt too concerned (or hopeful) about the money. I wanted to make an example of them for the online community as a whole.

Also, regarding the posting in multiple threads, I created this one before realizing an existing one was present so I thought to link them together - Not trying to spam so that's the only occurence.

Finally, I'm actually going to AC from 27-29, staying at Harrah's to play some poker. I would love to make some new friends if anyone wants to meet up! ( Probably a discussion for a different thread )

 

[winbig]

Oy vey... If you print out your chat transcript, that paper will be worth more than you'll ever see outta these guys. Go to Vegas this weekend and drop $20k on the craps tables at Caesars, (or maybe Atlantic City, in your case but, for my money, it don't touch Caesars) least the service is tip-top. And ya might get lucky and get kissed by somebody during the act, which is always a nice touch when you're gettin' screwed.

The last time I was at Caesars in Vegas, they had half nekkid girls pole-dancing in certain table game pits. As far as I know they did this every weekend. Does anyone know if they're still there??? If so, I'll be there again during my next trip

 

[bernynhel]

The last time I was at Caesars in Vegas, they had half nekkid girls pole-dancing in certain table game pits.

And the dealer's used to always know your name and what you drank. And one time a cocktail waitress was so stacked that when I turned to give her my drink order after, from over my shoulder, I heard her call, "Cocktails?", and my nose is about 2" from the low cut of her toga as she leans down to hear, all I could think to say was, "I'll have a quart a milk."

 

[anniemac]

Somewhere in the archives here is a thread about my dealings with Silver Oak. Oh, I got paid from them on my winnings from a free chip. Took about a month of hard work on my part. I kinda made it a crusade to get paid.

If you get the $150 or whatever the max cashout on the free chip was, you will be extremely lucky. Good luck.

 

[Wildfire7]

Pinababy69 has it spot on here. The maximum cashout means just that, a maximum you can cash out no matter what the circumstances are.
Even if this happened at somewhere like 32Red you still should not be paid that 9k as 150 is the maximum allowed off the free chip.

As others have pointed out Silver oak is well rogued. So be greatful if you get the 150. If there were a league table of all casinos, this is one that would be right down at the foot of table. Silver Joke would have been a more apt name for them.

Mike

 

[LaurieJim]

I hope they do send you the 150.00, then either buy yourself something nice or play it at a reputable casino, there are many listed in this forum, you might get lucky again and atleast, you"ll get paid.............laurie

 

[rockycatt]

ok does any one think rtg is going to foward ths bigger hit $$money prize to silver oak and then they just poket it ??

i hope not

 

[vinylweatherman]

This new thing RTG casinos do is VERY UNDERHAND, since it often means the player reaches the max cashout, but is tricked into playing it back because the adjustment is made on the spot, at a time when the player has no clue how close he is to meeting playthrough. This leads to a degree of over playing, often losing some or all of the max cashout back, whereas where the player checks the cashier, and withdraws knowing he has met playthrough, he will be able to get the max allowed.

This case is even worse, and is a case of RTG wanting their cake and eating it. If a player is ambushed by the in play adjustment and loses a little, they do NOT get given the original max cashout, yet if they WIN again, a SECOND adjustment is performed because although there has been the first adjustment, the player has not withdrawn the balance.

Other casinos with max cashouts will remove the excess, but NOT TWICE, they will allow the player to make the withdrawal request once they know they have met playthrough, and perform a single adjustment then.

This RTG system is NOT conducive to "entertainment", but to the player micro-managing their playthrough, and doing the required amout to the exact letter of the coupon rules, which is certainly NOT "in the spirit of" free money offers according to many casinos, who would consider this kind of micro-management of playthrough, followed by withdrawal, as "bonus abuse". This is certainly the view taken by Rival.

This RTG system is designed to make it even more improbable that a player playing mainly for entertainment will manage to stop playing at the exact moment playthrough is met, and managing to withdraw the maximum allowed.
It will take the discipline of a "bonus whore" to micro-manage their playthrough such that they are not caught out by the system, and end up losing back some of the max allowed cashout on bets they could never win from.

If this system is to be fair, it should also freeze the account from further play as well as making the adjustment, forcing the player to submit a withdrawal for the max allowed. This fairer approach could only cost casinos a little more, never less, which is why there is every incentive to do this in the current unfair manner.

 

[zanzibar]

I disagree with y'all who seem to be conditioned by the ridiculous policies these casinos try to run by us. He should be paid!

The casino withdrew his excess winnings over the $150 which makes it abundantly clear that the bonus is finished. Then what, he plays some more and wins and they want to do it again? Where is the upside. I am sure if he kept playing and lost the $150 they would not have said oh sorry here is your $150 back.

That is not on. Would they have paid if he withdrew $150 then made a deposit and then won? Its the same situation.

 

[winbig]

This new thing RTG casinos do is VERY UNDERHAND, since it often means the player reaches the max cashout, but is tricked into playing it back because the adjustment is made on the spot, at a time when the player has no clue how close he is to meeting playthrough. This leads to a degree of over playing, often losing some or all of the max cashout back, whereas where the player checks the cashier, and withdraws knowing he has met playthrough, he will be able to get the max allowed.

This case is even worse, and is a case of RTG wanting their cake and eating it. If a player is ambushed by the in play adjustment and loses a little, they do NOT get given the original max cashout, yet if they WIN again, a SECOND adjustment is performed because although there has been the first adjustment, the player has not withdrawn the balance.

Other casinos with max cashouts will remove the excess, but NOT TWICE, they will allow the player to make the withdrawal request once they know they have met playthrough, and perform a single adjustment then.

This RTG system is NOT conducive to "entertainment", but to the player micro-managing their playthrough, and doing the required amout to the exact letter of the coupon rules, which is certainly NOT "in the spirit of" free money offers according to many casinos, who would consider this kind of micro-management of playthrough, followed by withdrawal, as "bonus abuse". This is certainly the view taken by Rival.

This RTG system is designed to make it even more improbable that a player playing mainly for entertainment will manage to stop playing at the exact moment playthrough is met, and managing to withdraw the maximum allowed.
It will take the discipline of a "bonus whore" to micro-manage their playthrough such that they are not caught out by the system, and end up losing back some of the max allowed cashout on bets they could never win from.

If this system is to be fair, it should also freeze the account from further play as well as making the adjustment, forcing the player to submit a withdrawal for the max allowed. This fairer approach could only cost casinos a little more, never less, which is why there is every incentive to do this in the current unfair manner.

I don't get it though. If a player is playing on a free chip, that free chip has a max cashout 99.99% of the time. Everyone, including newbies, should know this if not from experience, but from reading the T&C for free chips.

Even if there's money left over after the 1st "adjustment" as in this case, it still isn't the player's money to do with as they please.

Sure, they could play as long as they want to on the excess money after an adjustment and cashout, but the final word, plain and simple, is that they'll never be able to cash out any future winnings derived from that free chip. They're still playing off earnings of that free chip, and a max cashout rule is just what it says - you can't cash out over the stated amount.

Sure, it looks deceptive, but hey, free money is just that - free money. You would expect a casino to play by their own rules, and so should you.

I guess the only good thing about having a balance leftover after the 1st adjustment and cashing out the max, such as this case, is that you could continue playing to rack up comp points. Just don't expect to be able to w/d any of it.

This is a huge loophole in regards to free chips at any RTG casino, and I expect operators will plug it up in short order by adding a clause in their T&C specific to this situation.

edit: Perhaps it's time for a title change? The casino has already stated that they're going to pay the OP what he's due - $150, and that's it. That's the max cashout for the chip he was playing with, so that's all he's due.

edit2: Don't you think the Rival player that hit a 6 figure progressive at Irish Luck was gutted too? Since he was playing on a free chip and could only cash out a few hundred, if that?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't get it though. If a player is playing on a free chip, that free chip has a max cashout 99.99% of the time. Everyone, including newbies, should know this if not from experience, but from reading the T&C for free chips.

Even if there's money left over after the 1st "adjustment" as in this case, it still isn't the player's money to do with as they please.

Sure, they could play as long as they want to on the excess money after an adjustment and cashout, but the final word, plain and simple, is that they'll never be able to cash out any future winnings derived from that free chip. They're still playing off earnings of that free chip, and a max cashout rule is just what it says - you can't cash out over the stated amount.

Sure, it looks deceptive, but hey, free money is just that - free money. You would expect a casino to play by their own rules, and so should you.

I guess the only good thing about having a balance leftover after the 1st adjustment and cashing out the max, such as this case, is that you could continue playing to rack up comp points. Just don't expect to be able to w/d any of it.

This is a huge loophole in regards to free chips at any RTG casino, and I expect operators will plug it up in short order by adding a clause in their T&C specific to this situation.

edit: Perhaps it's time for a title change? The casino has already stated that they're going to pay the OP what he's due - $150, and that's it. That's the max cashout for the chip he was playing with, so that's all he's due.

edit2: Don't you think the Rival player that hit a 6 figure progressive at Irish Luck was gutted too? Since he was playing on a free chip and could only cash out a few hundred, if that?

The problem is the WAY this is done, the present system relies on the player noticing they have met playthrough, otherwise they can end up playing back money that IS theirs under the free chip rules.

If the adjustment is going to take place "on the fly", then so should the withdrawal. The adjustment should be made, and further play should be blocked until the player cashes out. Currently, the player CAN play after the adjustment, and as in this case, the play can be INVOLUNTARY if the player is using autoplay, since there is no setting that stops autoplay when playthrough is met & adjustment is made. Since the player cannot ever win on bets made from further play once on the max cashout amount, the software should NOT ACCEPT any further bets, and should prompt the player to make their withdrawal there & then.

In any case, since the industry is so eager to point out that they offer the games FOR ENTERTAINMENT, what the hell is wrong with a player deciding to play a little further with any balance they cannot withdraw. They could at least get to know a few more of the games, and have some more fun.

Rival casinos even penalise players who fail to play on after meeting the WR of a coupon, so why is this issue so different with RTG.

The ONLY purpose is for RTG casinos to benefit from accidental overplay, which leaves players with less than the max cashout.

Look at this case, the player noticed the adjustment, but before he could react, autoplay did one further spin. In this case he was dead lucky to get the feature, and still ended up with the $150 allowed. Had this extra spin LOST however, he would have had his bet unfairly deducted, since under these circumstances it should be considered void. This player suffered no detriment, but others in this situation HAVE met playthrough and ended on the max allowed after adjustment, but the reaction delay has caused further betting to take place bringing their final withdrawable balance below the max allowed. THIS is why the system is unfair, players who hit the max balance upon reaching WR should get to keep it, not be tricked out of it by cynically designed software. RTG know EXACTLY what they are doing, but of course will not publicly admit it, it will have to be dragged out of them.

 

[gloria460]

I had the same thing happen to me. It's time consuming to keep checking to see if you're close or have made playthru requirements. I was making 2.00 bets and my balance dropped from 440 to 48. I am glad that I was paying attention when it happened.

I do also agree that all he is supposed to be paid is 150.00 and hopefully he'll get paid.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I had the same thing happen to me. It's time consuming to keep checking to see if you're close or have made playthru requirements. I was making 2.00 bets and my balance dropped from 440 to 48. I am glad that I was paying attention when it happened.

I do also agree that all he is supposed to be paid is 150.00 and hopefully he'll get paid.

I am not disputing this, but had that extra spin LOST, he would only have been paid $50, not the $150 that he was due. The software simply should NOT have been taking further bets.

In your case, you had an extra $2 bet deducted before you could react, and you were paying attention, and kept on checking playthrough.

It is obvious what the idea is, the player THEN tries to get back up to the max cashout they had, and often loses EVERYTHING in the attempt.

 

[anniemac]

I very seldom get free chips anymore but I don't remember my balance ever being adjusted when I made playthrough or max cashout. I know that when I played the free chip at Silver Oak I was up to $900 at one point after I had made playthru. I knew I could only cashout $75, I just kept playing anyway for grins. As I recall, the T&C's were quite plain on the max cashout etc. To be fair, they didn't refuse to pay me, it just took over a month and a lot of stalling on their part.

I have won on free chips from Club World and Casino Titan and never had the balance removed until I made the withdrawal. I personally like CW because they have the playthru countdown box. Casino Titan doesn't and when I think I am getting close, I bug the stuffing out of CS. They should add the feature and I would let them alone.

 

[winbig]

I very seldom get free chips anymore but I don't remember my balance ever being adjusted when I made playthrough or max cashout.

This seems to be the norm nowadays for RTG's. Even Lock casino states in their T&C that anything over the max cashout will be automatically deducted once playthrough is met. I'm not sure if this applies for all of their bonuses that have a max cashout, but I saw this term listed for their 400% bonus which has a $5K max cashout.

 

[rockycatt]

it smacks of being rigged . and the big hit sets the hook it can be done [you can get a big win ] you just got to go back and deposite new money

 

[vinylweatherman]

This seems to be the norm nowadays for RTG's. Even Lock casino states in their T&C that anything over the max cashout will be automatically deducted once playthrough is met. I'm not sure if this applies for all of their bonuses that have a max cashout, but I saw this term listed for their 400% bonus which has a $5K max cashout.

Well, RTG casinos have no excuse for calling "clock watchers" bonus abusers, it is now a REQUIREMENT to play a free chip to the exact amount of the WR.

It may be possible to trap this in autoplay though, try using "stop when balance falls by......", and it should stop as soon as the adjustment is made. This means you don't have to keep checking the playthrough meter, and in addition to this you could use a much lower stake to grind out the WR if only a little is left.

Just WHY RTG insisted on taking the entertainment factor out, and making free chips an exercise in "meter watching" defies belief. In the past this has been considered "bonus abuse", now it is considered compulsory.

 

[zanzibar]

I'd still like someone to explain the difference to me between what happened and him withdrawing the $150 then redepositing it and making the winning spin.

IMO there is none. Well except for the process in between which actually costs the casino money in labor and transaction costs.

The $150 was his money in the clear, bonus no longer attached. Their system said so. He should be paid.

 

[anniemac]

Zanzibar,

Most casinos that give you a free chip have 2 things attached to the free chip - wager requirements and max cashout. A free chip is different from a deposit bonus.

If you get a free chip of $10 with playthru of 100x and max cashout of 10x then $100 is all you can get from that chip. Period.

It doesn't matter if you make playthru and they take all the other money away, the terms say $100 max cashout. If you reverse the withdrawal and continue playing, you are still playing on the original free chip and the max cashout stands. That's just the way it is and unless the casino is really really hinky, all of this is stated in the T&C's.

 

[bgermain1985]

I disagree with y'all who seem to be conditioned by the ridiculous policies these casinos try to run by us. He should be paid!

The casino withdrew his excess winnings over the $150 which makes it abundantly clear that the bonus is finished. Then what, he plays some more and wins and they want to do it again? Where is the upside. I am sure if he kept playing and lost the $150 they would not have said oh sorry here is your $150 back.

That is not on. Would they have paid if he withdrew $150 then made a deposit and then won? Its the same situation.

Here is a message direct from the manager of the casino "Nick" as courtesy of another another casino forum submitting a formal complaint on my behalf.

---
Received this reply to our enquiries from Nick at Silver Oak (emphasis added by me):

Quote:
The rules say that $150 is the max cash out for this particular free chip.

So payout cannot be beyond $150 if he is continuously playing which the
player did. Yes he could have requested the withdrawal and deposited it back, then he would be eligible for the whole 9k.

Bottom line is until the player makes a deposit he is makes a deposit he is
only eligible for what the rule says for the free chip.

 

[lost2much]

Hey bgrmain, I'm going through the same deal with Prism right now. Only difference is that I hit a RJ for $7900 that allowed me to meet the WR for the $150. I requested the WD for the free chip money and am waiting for them to send my $150 via something called overnight express. Seems I have to wait 10 business days for processing, then another 10 days for them to actually pay me. Odd for a withdrawl method that calls itself Overnigt Exp!! Prism is definitely Virtual group, and I think you were also dealing with the same people at Silver Oak. The chat I had about when to expect my cash was very similar to yours except I was told that it will be a very long time (2weeks or never I assume) before I get my money. Probably trying to get me to say F it and just go away. The CS on chat didn't even seem to know how I would be paid. Anyone know about the Overnight Express? Is it real or just something else out of the Virtual imagination?? Of course I have no intention of ever being paid, but I will continue to bother them over this. If for no other reason than to tie them up with constantly having to deal with my silly ass questions. It is actually kind of fun screwing with the scammers since I really am not out anything!! Couldn't happen to a better (ok, better is a bad choice of words, I know!) group of people.

Please do fill me in on this Overnight Exp. deal if it is a real withdrawl option. If it is real and is viable, something good can come from this thread about the group that deserves no publicity bad or worse! Thanks.

 

[zanzibar]

Zanzibar,

Most casinos that give you a free chip have 2 things attached to the free chip - wager requirements and max cashout. A free chip is different from a deposit bonus.

If you get a free chip of $10 with playthru of 100x and max cashout of 10x then $100 is all you can get from that chip. Period.

It doesn't matter if you make playthru and they take all the other money away, the terms say $100 max cashout. If you reverse the withdrawal and continue playing, you are still playing on the original free chip and the max cashout stands. That's just the way it is and unless the casino is really really hinky, all of this is stated in the T&C's.

Trust me, I am intimately familiar with conditions on free chip promotions. My point is that if their system is automatically clearing out excess funds over and above the maximum withdrawal amount then at that moment in time that happens, they are declaring to the player that the promotion is over, its finished, stick a fork in her she's done.

The player could have withdrawn the $150, received it, then redeposited and made the winning spin. The casino people even confirmed it as per player's post above. Saying that he should not be paid just because he did not make a withdrawal in between is complete BS. I am shocked so many people here are so accepting of such ridiculous reasoning.

Bottom line is they should not be clearing the funds in the account until after the withdrawal is requested to avoid this confusion. Because what they are doing now is tantamount to saying ok the money's yours, play with it some more with absolutely no chance of winning another cent. Shameful.

 

[winbig]

You're all missing the point here. That's the way it is, the terms are there and clear. Nobody is forcing people to play at these casinos...

 

[funeral979]

Well, RTG casinos have no excuse for calling "clock watchers" bonus abusers, it is now a REQUIREMENT to play a free chip to the exact amount of the WR.

It may be possible to trap this in autoplay though, try using "stop when balance falls by......", and it should stop as soon as the adjustment is made. This means you don't have to keep checking the playthrough meter, and in addition to this you could use a much lower stake to grind out the WR if only a little is left.

Just WHY RTG insisted on taking the entertainment factor out, and making free chips an exercise in "meter watching" defies belief. In the past this has been considered "bonus abuse", now it is considered compulsory.

Couldn't agree with you more on your posts in this thread. I had the same thing happen to me last year. Played on a free chip with max cashout of $50. My balance was around $700 so I started spinning $5 a pop and wasn't really watching my balance closely. Next time I looked balance was under $40 and I was like WTF. So I lost it all trying to get back to $50.

It really does take the fun out of playing.....who wants to go back to the cashier every few spins to see the exact moment you meet the WR? Even worse if there is no counter in the cashier. RTG just want to make bonus abusers out of us all.

 

[alabama5150]

I thought i read somewhere

I would swear I read either a term at a RTG casino while using a coupon, or on a board somewhere, well I thought that at least one place had seperated the Random Jackpot as being differenciated from a normal spin while a free chip is in play.

I honestly thought they all did it only on the random jackpots, because it seemed logical since the player has no control over this triggering . Well since I will never ever get one, especially these days of ight play and too many rules anyhow, I never really felt it would hppem to me anyway.

Maybe I am wrong, but when there are playthru's on regular slot play and those winnings are subject to specifics, the random jackpot is an action that is not able to be turned off , nor can the player place a specific bet or "side bet" for lack of a better term, to enable the jackpots ability to be included. Since the cost of the regular line bet is associated with winnings per line, depending how much they spend, Its sort of a sidebar jackpot that the RTG people put into the casino software isn't it. What I mean is each spin amount counts towards a specific requirement, that the output is controlled by a bet size, and only money spent on a spin that has a particular win ability, is then deducted from the requirement. Therefore only that the game is played triggers it, not the amount of the bet. So then technically would this bet not be a gain from any money spent... The requirement is there so that the winnings from these spins are also controlled by the requirement. You cannot control a random thing attached to a game rather than a bet size . So if your chances of winning a random is attached to a regular pay table then the size of your bet would then vary how much of the WR it knocks off and then would adjust the jackpot amount . The entire deal on these is that a small bet or large has the same chance to hit.

Since a wr is attached to a bet placed nd the prize a player gets from some other means than a particular line number and size of bet and does not cost extra money cannot be considered as winnings from a coupon money. The player cant use money to play it, its just alongside his play like it or not... Its at least kinda plausible in theory this might be an arguement as to whether the random win should then be the result of the play of the line bet which only results in line pays. It might be a good reason for RTG to amend the potential situation. Besides if you notice the win says PROMO attached to the money pf the Random, which clearly shows its considered different money at least on some level . the coupon winnings removal used a different description.

Its a shame that the serious heavy winning streak only seems to occur lately in the RTG softwares and people are subject usually to a small max cashout. To me, my play has been so ridiculously short and always with out anything what so ever that is even close to enough to continue a WR much less cash out, I keep seeing post after post with phenom wins that people cannot have.


It isn't very entertaining to spin a bit win a fortune and then not get to have it. If they want to give free chips then the risk of a random jackpot win should got to the casino, rather than the poor soul who is being entertained! it is not costing money from a bonus coupon and the player cannot choose any thing about it, unlike playing the wrong games or trying to cashout too soon. Maybe RTG should be the guys on the hook.maybe require the casinos forward winners of these to them and let them pay them. This way operators dont get hurt and neither do players who have done nothing wrong nor can control the random winner the software picks.

we get shafted plenty enough no reason to create a situation that need not become a problem at a time when there is not a thing the player has the choice to do or not do. Regardless of whether or not the ripoff operators hose aq player or not, RTG might pay better attention to the chances of the mega free coupons these guys send endlessly that tout free chips and who constantly dont pay. If there was a chance that would place the risk of a bonus coupon abuser, or simply user winning money they have to pay, then the whole free chip thing would be a horse of a different color. This would lower the harm level of the rogues who change names of casinos and hide while trying to lure honest money with the intention of stealing it

Especially if they are spammers. Of course I would love to see spamming casinos be subject of honoring every offer they know you dont qualify for because you already belong with out and WR restrictions, would'nt that be funny .. and would that not clean up few mailboxes! Hmmmph!!

As far as Virtual Danny.. I would contact them the next time you get a high offer like deposit $5000 and get whatever. Call him up and pretend you wish to wire $5000 to the casino right way and jerk his chain a bit , see if he will do a western union , get the receiver name and then call and ask if its there yet, and what should you do, maybe send a new one cancel old .... Tell him you are sure you can hit a jackpot again because their casino is the best ever, this way when you win you wont have future problems .. Heh! Kinda nasty I know But I think it would be fun to jerk them waste his time, and then if nothing else you get to waste his time. Better than nothing. I would like to do more than that to these crooks.

Before you deposit they are the most "cool" and friendly casino you could ever hope. If you need deposit help, they practically jump thru the phone line to get at your money, but they will use every excuse they can find not to pay, and if there is no excuse then they just lock you out. So I think the real clue here is that the payout on the only time that kind of winning takes place for you ( at least I think) is when you are on a coupon.

I agree with previous post, I smell a RAT . But then we all know Danny is a rat, but still he would be the very first name in my mind before knowing a cheat situations detail,, i automatically think virtual.


I think the software can be aware as well as the casino, which really doesnt sound good to RTG. These guys are crooks, but other players have the best days of play ever at reputable sites and then and usually only then do they hitm when they cant cashout.

If this were true that would be poking a stick at a players natural weakness to want to risk more money later, since it happened once maybe it can again... This would be diabolical

I would fight this one in court if i could, I think its is a real good point it cost zero to enable the ability to payout so really the coupon money could not be used

 

[anniemac]

For the original OP, Silver Oak has a telephone number and they do answer the phone. I made it a habit to call them at least once a day along with daily chats and emails. Didn't cost my anything, number was toll free.

When they finally paid me, I was told it would be sent one way and it was sent Western Union and I wasn't notified by SO. I just happened to make my daily call and was told it was sent. I then requested the info and low and behold, it was there. I was told I would be sent a check by mail. So if you want to be paid someday, you have to be diligent.

 

[bernynhel]

This whole fuster cluck is an evolved RTG thing. Shit rolls down hill. Year after year after year these poor noobs get bent over by these RTG pit falls and snares. All RTG sites are guilty by association, far as I'm concerned, and I haven't deposited at one in a month and wont til these bonus rules are set up so that a player cannot go and do what is prohibited in the terms. If terms state table games are a against the rules, let the casino bar players access to those games until the end of the specified period.

If we all got together and boycotted all RTG sites and demanded they handle their business, properly, I'd bet in a week or two we'd never have to slog through another thread like this again.

Otherwise, this BS is never going to end.

EVERYONE READING THIS PLEASE pick 5 CM members at random who have posted within the last week, PM them and let them know you're mad as hell and you're not gonna take it any more, and ask them to join us and pick 5 CM members to ask the same and so on.

 

[anniemac]

Berny,

While you are correct on some things, I don't think it's right to lump all RTG casinos in with Silver Oak.

When I played there on the free chip, I had already done my due diligence. I knew they were a part of Virtual but I was bored and broke. If you are going to play at any casino, it is up to you to check them out. I also knew that if I ran into trouble that I couldn't PAB here.

That said, Silver Oak didn't screw the player on this one (or at least not yet since payment hasn't been received, it could happen). They posted the T&C's on free chip play and whether you like it or not, rules are rules. There again, it is up to the player to read and know what applies to free chip or bonus play. What happened to the OP sucks but SO posted rules and that's that. If the player had made a withdrawal, got paid and then redeposited, hit a RJ, we wouldn't be having this thread. No casino that I know of, with exception of MGs, will let you withdraw the max on a free chip and then let you reverse it and it be new money. Most MG freebies don't have a max cashout.

I am playing a free chip at one of the accredited RTGs and the rules for it are just the same as the rules that Silver Oak has.

I'm sorry but painting all RTG casinos with same brush is bad form.

I know that this is just my opinion and you may not agree with it but it's mine and I like it.

 

[bernynhel]

Berny,

While you are correct on some things, I don't think it's right to lump all RTG casinos in with Silver Oak.

When I played there on the free chip, I had already done my due diligence. I knew they were a part of Virtual but I was bored and broke. If you are going to play at any casino, it is up to you to check them out. I also knew that if I ran into trouble that I couldn't PAB here.

That said, Silver Oak didn't screw the player on this one (or at least not yet since payment hasn't been received, it could happen). They posted the T&C's on free chip play and whether you like it or not, rules are rules. There again, it is up to the player to read and know what applies to free chip or bonus play. What happened to the OP sucks but SO posted rules and that's that. If the player had made a withdrawal, got paid and then redeposited, hit a RJ, we wouldn't be having this thread. No casino that I know of, with exception of MGs, will let you withdraw the max on a free chip and then let you reverse it and it be new money. Most MG freebies don't have a max cashout.

I am playing a free chip at one of the accredited RTGs and the rules for it are just the same as the rules that Silver Oak has.

I'm sorry but painting all RTG casinos with same brush is bad form.

I know that this is just my opinion and you may not agree with it but it's mine and I like it.

You're absolutely right. And I respect your opinion. But I'm not saying all the RTG operators are bad. But if the good ones don't participate in pressuring RTG to bring about any changes, then there wont be any.

If the totally legit RTG sites scream bloody murder to get things changed the right way, something may give.

After all, good, bad or rogue, all RTG sites have RTG in common.

And it would benefit everybody - us (number 1) and the accredited RTG sites would have a lot less negativity associated with their business if a few simple fixes were set in place.

If you only boycott the rogues sites, nothing will happen because those sites don't depend on repeat business.

Unfortunately, the tip top RTG sites have done nothing in all this time to pressure RTG to make adjustments. And why should they? Well, I can only think of one reason but if we can't stand tough on this nothing will ever change.

It's a simple little thing. What can it hurt? You have nothing to lose and we all have something to gain. That player X should register at RTG Casino Y after being offered a free chip to do so and be forbidden to play blackjack but can load the game and play away is wrong and it can be easily resolved.

It's like if Wal-Mart (or whoever) offered free hot dogs to all customers for a day but to get the hot dog, you had to agree to terms whereby adding mustard and eating the hotdog with mustard on it voids the agreement and you then must return the hotdog.

But mustard is provided by Wal-Mart without any restriction of access. It's everywhere! All anyone has to do is grab a mustard bottle and squirt some on. So the customer sees mustard, squirts some on his hot dog, eats it, then, as he is leaving Wal-Mart, has to have his stomach pumped and give back the hot dog because he violated the terms of his free hotdog agreement.

If everyone yelled FOUL and stood up for their friends who ate the hotdogs with mustard and stayed away from Wal-Mart for a while instead of defending Wal-Mart (who, by the way, doesn't need defending) do you think Wal-Mart would continue to make mustard easily available when they forbid its use with the free hotdogs?

 

[zanzibar]

Yes he could have requested the withdrawal and deposited it back, then he would be eligible for the whole 9k.

If the player had made a withdrawal, got paid and then redeposited, hit a RJ, we wouldn't be having this thread.

How ridiculously bureaucratic. The net effect to player and casino balances of withdrawing $150 then depositing $150 is zero.

There ought to be a giant flashing box that pops up and says withdraw now, you can only possibly lose money from now on once the casino makes the adjustment to the player's balance when the wagering requirements are met. Won't happen will it?

 

[lost2much]

hi all, noone has yet replied concerning this Overnight Express withdrawl option they supposedly use. Is anyone familiar with it? How does it work?? Thanks.

 

[vinylweatherman]

How ridiculously bureaucratic. The net effect to player and casino balances of withdrawing $150 then depositing $150 is zero.

There ought to be a giant flashing box that pops up and says withdraw now, you can only possibly lose money from now on once the casino makes the adjustment to the player's balance when the wagering requirements are met. Won't happen will it?

This is the point I am labouring to get across. Yes, we read the terms, and know (or should know), that there will be max cashouts on certain kinds of free chip offers. The problem is the player unfriendly way the software handles this now, and this is a RECENT CHANGE. Before, players could play as long as they wanted. When they thought they had met WR, they could check the counter in the cashier, or ask CS, and if they were over the max cashout and had completed WR, they would GET the maximum allowed.
The problem is the removal of the excess WHILST STILL PLAYING, giving the player NO PROPER CHANCE to request a withdrawal for the maximum. No matter HOW attentive the player is, there are going to be a spin or two that sneak in AFTER the adjustment, and players are tricked by a software deficiency into making wagers that they could not possibly win.

If RTG added this in-play adjustment into the software, WHY didn't they couple this with a "stop current play" feature, and have the software issue an alert that the player had met WR, and could withdraw. If the player got this, knew it was a max cashout free chip, and STILL decided to continue playing, then it would NOT be for lack of effort on the part of the casino operator that the player made the wrong decision.

This new feature can ONLY be intended to trick players into missing the best time to cash out their free chip, and then perhaps lose even more trying to get back to the max cashout limit.

RTG casinos never used to have this in-play confiscation, so why have it NOW. Other casinos use max cashouts on free chips, yet they do all the adjustments after a player has finished playing, and submitted a valid withdrawal.

Casinos are an odd bunch. On one hand, they bitch & moan about players who deposit, play it only once or twice through, and withdraw, because of all the unnecessary processing fees involved. On the other hand, they want this player to withdraw his $150, and then redeposit it again, otherwise he wont be paid any winnings above the original $150. In terms of probabilities, it makes no difference to the outcome, the money belongs to the player once WR are met, it's just bureaucratic procedure that actually costs the casino additional processing fees.

Max cashout issues cause a great many of the problems with RTG casinos, so they should get rid of the max cashout idea altogether, and amend other aspects of their promotions to balance the books, such as fewer coupons being available, tighter WR, or lower percentages.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Trust me, I am intimately familiar with conditions on free chip promotions. My point is that if their system is automatically clearing out excess funds over and above the maximum withdrawal amount then at that moment in time that happens, they are declaring to the player that the promotion is over, its finished, stick a fork in her she's done.

The player could have withdrawn the $150, received it, then redeposited and made the winning spin. The casino people even confirmed it as per player's post above. Saying that he should not be paid just because he did not make a withdrawal in between is complete BS. I am shocked so many people here are so accepting of such ridiculous reasoning.

Bottom line is they should not be clearing the funds in the account until after the withdrawal is requested to avoid this confusion. Because what they are doing now is tantamount to saying ok the money's yours, play with it some more with absolutely no chance of winning another cent. Shameful.

Oh come on MR. Z, do not be so silly. Everyone knows there is a difference in a $100 or $150 that is withdrawn and a $100 or $150 redeposited.

TandC's=Ten Commandments. These onlines phuck players under the guise of the Ten Commandments and always will as long as players allow it which will be forever. Time for another Sabbitical

 

[lost2much]

Hello again. Noone has responded to my query about the Overnight Express option for a withdrawl. Has anyone heard of it?? Are my posts even showing up?? I am trying to be a part of the conversation but I wonder if I'm doing something wrong and being ignored. Thanks again

 

[kakata]

Hello again. Noone has responded to my query about the Overnight Express option for a withdrawl. Has anyone heard of it?? Are my posts even showing up?? I am trying to be a part of the conversation but I wonder if I'm doing something wrong and being ignored. Thanks again

Ok. Overnight express is.:
You cant sleep its 3 am so you prepare yourself a nice Italian coffee which happens to be called expresso and since its 3 am it is an overnight expresso...lol
they wont pay overnight overweek overshit....thats all...so a good coffee its better.
Just kiddin ......

 

[bgermain1985]

RTG Overnight = N/A

Overnight express @ RTG - It's basically a dead option anyways.

Hell, when you ask for a type of withdrawal you are lucky if you get that. ie. usemywallet requests fulfilled via money gram or something foolish.

 

[suzecat]

Overnight express @ RTG - It's basically a dead option anyways.

Hell, when you ask for a type of withdrawal you are lucky if you get that. ie. usemywallet requests fulfilled via money gram or something foolish.

Link Outdated / Removed

 

[lost2much]

yeah, kinda figured it was something made up. Thanks for the info.

 

[alabama5150]

There is one term that still bothers me

Okay, if the system removes the excess when the WR is met, this then makes the software recognize that the money in excess of the $150 on the original free chip win impossible to remove more than he was allowed. This was an automatic thing. Blammo the deduction happens exactly on time when the wr is satisfied.

The words PROMO CREDIT Withdraw Requested , and then again directly say APPROVED. I find it curious that the same cashier mechanism that showed clear denials and referred to the original winnings using a term that was completely different using the word BONUS. Apparently some how there are two types of winnings in this account. The fact that the System said APPROVED, to me means that , if he had tried this before the WR was met or tried to cash out other winnings, it appeared to have said no. Just as the casino maintains. I would like to understand why the cashier , clearly disallowed the $500 with draw attemps over and over, which again show the chip had a max pay out win attached, and all of the other things that do go along with the rules about the bonus coupon win. If there was any way the RJ win was not considered the same then the system would have once again showed, withdraw requested, withdraw DENIED. It did it like 5 times prior. but we see this "Promo" credit win withdraw was approved.
This is why I feel that there is some grey area here. And I would love to learn why the system refers to it differently and why it approved it. and not just that he failed to remove the $150 and then put it back. To me I am sorry but that doesnt explain what the record tell me. Even if it changes nothing I still want to know . I find it curious and I also find it very unaddressed. Its all right there. Rather than try to get round a bonus rule pay I think the system itself disagrees with the casino on this one. this is why I get so passionate about this win as being a completely side issue to the result of a win that solely comes from money wagered and a proper payout according to what came up on the reels. Now what if the jackpot itself had its own set of rules and no one has addressed the point in any official random jakpot rules that should say if a RJ hits during a coupon restrictive time it is not a valid win. Since tje coupon restrictions were obeyed, then why is there not one thing in any rules that signify a RJ . Nor did the coupon rules cover it. It simply is not a wagered win. It is awarded at any time and on any play amount. This to me should be worthy of rules that cover all situations when the win is an RJ

It wont make a different , but I still want to know why it went down like it did. He felt he won and it really did look as if he was good to go. A reasonable person would assume that a stupid little step of removing money and then putting it back is just unecessary and is a rule in place to try to make yet another way that a seasoned player might not notice. Any play after the WR converts that money into his winnings on his entertainment. Should he chose to continue playing them or cash them or give them as a gift to DANNY. the money was his. There is no reason to put this rule in other that to give a potential for non payment.

Sorry to run on, but I really think that this issue is not such a normal circumstance and evidence suggests the player is unprotected in a potential win situation. Even if he doesnt get paid, lets cover thiis so there wont be an next time on any bonus or free money or what ever else they come up with in terms that cause a potentiallybad situation. What next.. Promo Credit wins might only be payable if they occured on the third spin of a session that takes place on February 29th only and the winner must have two "r"'s in their name. . i know I am ranting but I really feel for the original poster on this one.
Anyone?

 

[bernynhel]

Oh so now it's automatic that the dregs are wiped from the account after WR/WD? Huh.

"Back in the day" I was enticed to register at The Virtual Casino, free-chip-whore that I was. Am. Not the point. I met the WR and cashed out the $500 Max and this left a few dollars which, according to the terms of the free chip, would be referred to, going forward, as the excess funds beyond the maxable cash out under the excess funds beyond max-out limit clause and that those funds are not mine and they would be removed from my account, forthwith after my WD was relegated to Virtual Casino WD Purgatory whereby it is poked and prodded and all sorts of things all evil and sadistic in nature done to it while The Virtual Group can decide which excuse they will use of the several dozen available to them for screwing me out of my $500 "Withdrawable", pending, WD - we're talking about $13 or so.

A week and a half later I log in to my account and go to Live Chat to inquire about my pending WD. The $13 balance was gone though it had been up to about $17 because a few days earlier I had logged in and played a couple hands of VP, got bored, logged off. Well guess what?

7 years later and The Virtual Group still has the same, convenient, vehicle, one of many, to screw people. People like us. Because people like us refuse to do the right thing: not deposit a cent into any RTG powered casino until the above, described, scenario is no longer a possibility.

"Oh, it's not fair to lump the good RTG sites in with the bad ones." - fair to who? A casino?!? F them! There is us or there is them - which are we? Duh!

"Oh it's always been that way, let the player stick to the terms if they're gonna play the free chip." - Yeah. And thanks to you it will stay that way (us, not me us, but you-us! And don't try to look away cuz we all know who you are - JUDAS!)

Players -players(us!) - who would actually open their big, fat, mouths in defense of a casino against one of their own. I don't give a shit the reason - a rat's a rat where I come from.

Spineless slot junkies who could not take a week of Cold Turkey without their fav RTG slots. No matter the reason or what good it might do - for themselves or anyone else. You'd sell your mother first. And operators like The Virtual Group know it. In fact, their business model is based on it.

 

[alabama5150]

"Oh, it's not fair to lump the good RTG sites in with the bad ones." - fair to who? A casino?!? F them! There is us or there is them - which are we? Duh!

"Oh it's always been that way, let the player stick to the terms if they're gonna play the free chip." - Yeah. And thanks to you it will stay that way (us, not me us, but you-us! And don't try to look away cuz we all know who you are - JUDAS!)[/I]

There certainly seems to be a very high number of really large wins that cannot be kept. There is also an unfair edge to allowing the RJ to pay during restrictive play, doesnt it reset to the lowest minimum? Would that not mean honest players whos play added to the win amount growing number, wouldnt that then cause them to get cheated out of their chances to hit a big one.

It would be nice to see a very comprehensive spread sheet, provided by RTG on a regular basis , that shows the stats of ALL of their casino lisensees. The posting of details that disclose all of the jackpot hits and then show what the amounts at what sites and at what frequency this takes place. and then show the win amounts that were denied due to the restrictive property's in their software's coupon play as well as all other statistical detailed information pertinent.

If it is just coincidental, and no randomless activity is happening then it would be easily seen. Besides its just plain good info that is not unreasonable to be made public. The software here seems to add to the other predatory rules, or so it appears in some cases. But since the casino is a RTG product they should require the info from the casinos on a regular basis and then publish it.

This might also help to avoid future issues. Not to mention when the payout percentages that are posted on the casino sites state information that is a result of some payout percentage audit, how do we know it is measured fairly in all situations. If that 97% payout includes non valid wins then the number is bogus. It would be the same to say free play payouts are allowed to be counted as well.
,
I am all for trying to avoid, rather than the only real choice we have is an after the fact cry for help, which we luckily can get here.

Transparency is the new buzz word. I for one would like to see it everywhere in this industry. I think that starting from the software company , just like any other business one deals with. If a car had a recall GM sends you the letter not the guy who sold it to you. At least in my experience.

Sticking together and asking for details if something is fishy should not be a problem and the simplicity of wording and rules on coupons, could easily follow certain guidelines set up in advance , in an industry controlled acceptable format that prevent dumbass extra steps in place to invalidate wins, not to protect operators from bonus abuse.

They , just like the players , could choose to not give coupons if they think they have to protect them selves with crazy terms when they do.

 

[Pinababy69]

Just FTR, the OP in this thread didn't win a Random Jackpot. He triggered the feature on the slot he was playing, just as the software had reset his balance after meeting WR. Not that it would have made a difference, a 9K feature win, or a 9K Random Jackpot....a free chip at RTG is a free chip, and in 99.9% of the cases, it carries a 5X or 10X max cashout.

The max cashout rules are pretty clear, and again...it wouldn't have mattered if the OP was playing at Inetbet instead of a rogue shithole...the max cashout rule is still the same. At Inet, he would have been entitled to $150, at the Virtual dive...he's entitled to the $150 max cashout. Only difference being...had he been playing at Inetbet, he would have been paid already. At this hellhole...who knows if he'll ever collect his $150.

I agree the resetting of the balance once WR are met isn't ideal, I don't particularly like it either. But it seems that's the way it's going to be, and that this is the way RTG will handle no deposit free chips. Play them, and deal with it....or don't use any coupons/bonuses with a max cashout, especially no deposit chips.

If I had to guess, I'd say they've implemented this to prevent those players who have built up a huge balance on a free chip from racking up large numbers of comp points on a freebie. On the very odd occasion I do play a free chip now at Inetbet, I keep track almost to the penny of my WR (with pen and paper)...and if I do manage to get close, I never use autoplay. It's a pain in the ass, no doubt....but what are you gonna do? This is their system now.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just FTR, the OP in this thread didn't win a Random Jackpot. He triggered the feature on the slot he was playing, just as the software had reset his balance after meeting WR. Not that it would have made a difference, a 9K feature win, or a 9K Random Jackpot....a free chip at RTG is a free chip, and in 99.9% of the cases, it carries a 5X or 10X max cashout.

The max cashout rules are pretty clear, and again...it wouldn't have mattered if the OP was playing at Inetbet instead of a rogue shithole...the max cashout rule is still the same. At Inet, he would have been entitled to $150, at the Virtual dive...he's entitled to the $150 max cashout. Only difference being...had he been playing at Inetbet, he would have been paid already. At this hellhole...who knows if he'll ever collect his $150.

I agree the resetting of the balance once WR are met isn't ideal, I don't particularly like it either. But it seems that's the way it's going to be, and that this is the way RTG will handle no deposit free chips. Play them, and deal with it....or don't use any coupons/bonuses with a max cashout, especially no deposit chips.

If I had to guess, I'd say they've implemented this to prevent those players who have built up a huge balance on a free chip from racking up large numbers of comp points on a freebie. On the very odd occasion I do play a free chip now at Inetbet, I keep track almost to the penny of my WR (with pen and paper)...and if I do manage to get close, I never use autoplay. It's a pain in the ass, no doubt....but what are you gonna do? This is their system now.

If they don't want players to carry on playing after meeting WR, why not throw the player out of the game and back to the lobby AS WELL as adjusting the balance. The current method makes it too easy for the software to accept additional bets AFTER the balance adjustment, when in fact such bets should be considered VOID because the WR on a free chip has been met.

Why also is it ONLY RTG casinos that have this MASSIVE FEAR of players continuing to play after meeting WR, no other software has this, indeed most would LIKE players to carry on playing after meeting WR, and Rival have a POLICY of punishing players who do not play, on average, 30% more than the coupon WR before cashing out.

It is starting to look as though RTG payouts are ARTIFICIALLY INFLATED, but that this is compensated for because many are deemed invalid because of max cashout coupon rules. Players have no choice as to when their luck hits, be it on a max cashout coupon or not.
It has also been noted that RTG casinos advertise RJ wins as having been won, yet make NO mention of whether they were indeed valid, or denied because of max cashout rules in place at the time. Where denied, the confiscated element of the RJ is NOT put back to be won again, the casino simply keeps it, thus adding up to 1.5% extra to their edge - depending on the quantity of RJs confiscated under these max cashout rules.
It is in the interests of RTG casinos to offer as many max cashout coupons as they can, as they can count the large payouts towards overall player return figures, yet not actually be liable to pay them out.

Previously, cancellation of excess balance was done after the player submitted their withdrawal, and this ENSURED that players who managed to reach the max cashout amount would be able to receive it. The new system makes it likely that players will "overshoot" WR, and often end up with LESS than the max cashout amount once they have been able to kill the game in play, return to the lobby, and cash out.

In every set of terms and conditions I have seen, casinos have stressed that play is for ENTERTAINMENT, yet this new RTG system goes against this view, as it CONFISCATES any "entertainment" available once WR has been met, forcing players to play free chips in a "professional" manner, aiming to hit WR exactly, and then immediately cashing out, even if they DID want further entertainment in that session.

 

[bgermain1985]

Haha, well even though they said 'cechk would be sent' I got a confirmation for MoneyGram.

At least the MoneyGram was received and the 150$ was paid.

Haha, you know RTG is like the McDonalds or Dunkin Donuts of the internet.

They can never get your order right, and maybe if you are lucky you will get something close to what you originally asked for or were promised

Oh, and if theres a razor in your big mac and you swallow it, it's your responsibility for having not noticed the razor you were going to swallow. If you manage to avoid the razor, you can keep the Big Mac lolol.

Thread in a nutshell.